Hey, gun nuts!

[Peregrinator]

No need to worry that much about the .284. Lever/Pump action rifles are inherently less accurate and most are designed for woods shooting where you're going to be shooting at 100yds or less. Properly sighted in with factory ammo will get the job done. Might even get you out to 200yds. 300yds would be pushing it, not due to cartridge limitations, more due to the rifle itself. There are exceptions to the rule though. I would try different loadings from various manufacturers though. You might find one that works significantly better than others. Just as a guess, I would think that 120 to 140 grain bullets would work best in that rifle.



Ishmael

In my piddling around I found some info that you should be interested in Perg.

REASONS TO RELOAD FOR THE WIN. MOD. 88:

1. The barrel you have is the only one you're ever going to have short of custom gunsmithing work. Winchester does not make spare barrels and never did. The only factory load that I found was the Win. 150 gr. load at near max. velocity. If you shoot that thing enough with factory loads you are going to burn the barrel out.

2. That rifle was manufactured with a 1:10 twist which is actually better for lighter bullets. The 150 gr is at the upper end of the accuracy tolerance for the rifle. For the 150 gr. or heavier bullets a 1:9.5 to 1:9 twist is preferred. For the 1:10 you should be shooting bullets in the 120 - 140 gr. class as I mentioned previously and to preserve barrel life you should be shooting below max loading. Those bullet weights are more than adequate for any hunting you'd be doing in your neck of the woods. (And at $80/box you'll be saving a lot of money)

Ishmael

This is great info, Ish. I'd shoot something else if I could find it. Finding any ammo at all is hard enough, but it all seems to be 150-gr. Roughly how many rounds do you think it will handle before it's blown?

I've got millions of acres of BLM land around here and more than a few ranges open to the public (for a fee) with 1000 yd rifle positions.

Nice. I have a sandpit a couple towns over where everyone goes and shoots for free. 100 meters is the max...

 

[Ishmael]

This is great info, Ish. I'd shoot something else if I could find it. Finding any ammo at all is hard enough, but it all seems to be 150-gr. Roughly how many rounds do you think it will handle before it's blown?


Nice. I have a sandpit a couple towns over where everyone goes and shoots for free. 100 meters is the max...

If you don't push the loadings you should get somewhere in the range of 2 to 3 thousand rounds through it. I suspect that it would be reduced with the factory loads, the big question is by how much? I don't know the answer to that one. Further, there is the issue of how many rounds have been through it already?

The problem is that the rifle is quickly becoming a collectible leaving you with a couple of choices. The first being to thoroughly clean it and put it away. The second is to re-barrel it now and have it done by a smith that can remove the factory barrel without dinging it in any way. Then put the factory barrel away. The factory barrel can always be re-installed if the decision is made to sell the rifle and that job is fairly cheap. A barrel replacement may run you as much as $1,000 and it isn't going to get cheaper with time. (A good barrel blank is going to run you upwards of $300, the rest is the smiths time and skill.)

If it were my choice I'd put it away and buy a modern action rifle. I prefer bolt guns, but I do have a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem. that I've taken a lot of deer with in tight woods. It's not a pretty gun, but it gets the job done. Great big slow bullet and I've never had an animal run more than 10 yd.s after being tagged. And it's fun to shoot.

For your neck of the woods I'd look at something in .25 cal. The 257 Roberts is an easy shooter and at the upper end is the 25-06. 243's are also easy shooters but a little on the small end for deer sized game (IMO), although there is a devoted following for the cartridge.

Ishmael

 

[Peregrinator]

If you don't push the loadings you should get somewhere in the range of 2 to 3 thousand rounds through it. I suspect that it would be reduced with the factory loads, the big question is by how much? I don't know the answer to that one. Further, there is the issue of how many rounds have been through it already?

The problem is that the rifle is quickly becoming a collectible leaving you with a couple of choices. The first being to thoroughly clean it and put it away. The second is to re-barrel it now and have it done by a smith that can remove the factory barrel without dinging it in any way. Then put the factory barrel away. The factory barrel can always be re-installed if the decision is made to sell the rifle and that job is fairly cheap. A barrel replacement may run you as much as $1,000 and it isn't going to get cheaper with time. (A good barrel blank is going to run you upwards of $300, the rest is the smiths time and skill.)

If it were my choice I'd put it away and buy a modern action rifle. I prefer bolt guns, but I do have a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem. that I've taken a lot of deer with in tight woods. It's not a pretty gun, but it gets the job done. Great big slow bullet and I've never had an animal run more than 10 yd.s after being tagged. And it's fun to shoot.

For your neck of the woods I'd look at something in .25 cal. The 257 Roberts is an easy shooter and at the upper end is the 25-06. 243's are also easy shooters but a little on the small end for deer sized game (IMO), although there is a devoted following for the cartridge.

Ishmael

I'd be surprised if the dead uncle had ever shot it at all. It's almost certainly had fewer than a hundred rounds through it, and likely closer to fifty.

The trouble is there's nothing available for it but 150-gr factory loads unless I start reloading myself, which is a large initial outlay for equipment and materials, not to mention the time it would take me to learn what the hell I'm doing. I wonder if I could get parts to chamber a different round. They made it in .243 and .308 as well.

I like bolt guns as well. I hadn't thought about the hot .25's so much. That's a good suggestion. I've fallen in lust from afar with the Ruger Gunsite Scout, which seems like a pretty good all-around rifle in case I have to go to Thor's cabin and plink at polar bears or something.

I'm probably going to pick up a .223 for nostalgia's sake anyway; how would you say it compares to the .243?

 

[thør]

I've fallen in lust from afar with the Ruger Gunsite Scout, which seems like a pretty good all-around rifle in case I have to go to Thor's cabin and plink at polar bears or something.

.308 is generally thought to be a bit light for big brown and ugly. Then again, grandpa killed a huge brown with a 25-35. He did have to reload. It was not a clean kill.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

.308 is generally thought to be a bit light for big brown and ugly. Then again, grandpa killed a huge brown with a 25-35. He did have to reload. It was not a clean kill.

From everything I have read the 300 win mag seems to be the standard for big brown and ugly hunting. I did read an article about a guy who went grizzly hunting with a S&W 500....gangster. I wonder if 15+1 10mm would do the trick.

 

[Ishmael]

I'd be surprised if the dead uncle had ever shot it at all. It's almost certainly had fewer than a hundred rounds through it, and likely closer to fifty.

The trouble is there's nothing available for it but 150-gr factory loads unless I start reloading myself, which is a large initial outlay for equipment and materials, not to mention the time it would take me to learn what the hell I'm doing. I wonder if I could get parts to chamber a different round. They made it in .243 and .308 as well.

I like bolt guns as well. I hadn't thought about the hot .25's so much. That's a good suggestion. I've fallen in lust from afar with the Ruger Gunsite Scout, which seems like a pretty good all-around rifle in case I have to go to Thor's cabin and plink at polar bears or something.

I'm probably going to pick up a .223 for nostalgia's sake anyway; how would you say it compares to the .243?

And .358 as I recall. All would require a re-barreling. In theory you could re-bore it to .308 or .358, but that would cost you as much or more than a re-barreling and you'd destroy the collectible status. The .284 was a relatively rare chambering for the rifle, that's what adds to its value.

If you're going to go plink those bears I'd get something in .338 Win. mag. or bigger.

Glad this isn't a gun forum because what I'm about to say would start a shit storm. IMO anything in 6mm (243) or smaller is a varmint cartridge. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of .243 hunters out there that would be all over me for that statement. They'd point out how the .243 is just as lethal on whitetails as it's larger bore brethren, and they'd be right .......for a well placed shot. There is little room for error with the small cartridges. (I knew a guy that got busted for poaching and he was using a .22 mag. and taking head shots. Game and Fish took two years to finally round him up. He was damned good at what he did.)

Ishmael

 

[thør]

From everything I have read the 300 win mag seems to be the standard for big brown and ugly hunting. I did read an article about a guy who went grizzly hunting with a S&W 500....gangster. I wonder if 15+1 10mm would do the trick.

You generally will see guides carrying a heavier back up than a 300WM. I carry a .338WM. Still, bullet choice and placement are most important. You can kill most anything with a 30-06 which is prolly the most popular big game round in the state, and, definitely the most popular during moose season. 300WM is prolly the second most popular. Some guys get off hunting big game with handguns. *shrugs*

 

[thør]

Glad this isn't a gun forum because what I'm about to say would start a shit storm. IMO anything in 6mm (243) or smaller is a varmint cartridge. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of .243 hunters out there that would be all over me for that statement. They'd point out how the .243 is just as lethal on whitetails as it's larger bore brethren, and they'd be right .......for a well placed shot. There is little room for error with the small cartridges. (I knew a guy that got busted for poaching and he was using a .22 mag. and taking head shots. Game and Fish took two years to finally round him up. He was damned good at what he did.)

Ishmael

In northwest Alaska, in the management unit along the Noatak River, rimfires are allowed for big game. You wait for the caribou to cross the river. Motor up to them with your boat. Pop 'em in the head. And when you get a stringer full, you drag them ashore and dress 'em. Puts meat on the table.

 

[JackLuis]

I'd be surprised if the dead uncle had ever shot it at all. It's almost certainly had fewer than a hundred rounds through it, and likely closer to fifty.

I've fallen in lust from afar with the Ruger Gunsite Scout, which seems like a pretty good all-around rifle in case I have to go to Thor's cabin and plink at polar bears or something.

I'm probably going to pick up a .223 for nostalgia's sake anyway; how would you say it compares to the .243?

I have watched an old guy at my Club range try out a Gunsight Scout. His eyes aren't too good but he was getting 2" groups at 50 yards. He's tried 160-179 gr bullets and 4064. I think it's his eyes and the fact that it has a different sight every time I see him, might be the reason for the groups.

That said, I have a couple of Ruger 77's, one's a .308 with 20" barrel and it shoots pretty good, I use 100-125 gr bullets mostly to plink targets because it only weighs 6.5 pounds. Full Force 165's will rattle your teeth.

The gunsight is a nice rig, for a 16" carbine, the scout scope takes some getting used to. The old guy said it was like looking thru a toilet paper roll. Low power scopes are more for aiming rather than field of view, which is a common problem for people to compromise.

good thing is the barrel is fairly stiff and the sights are good. I'd prefer a smaller peep sight, but it is a "Battle Rifle".

I think it should shoot 150's at 2400 fps with the 16" barrel. More that that will induce a flinch because it is light, although it does have a thin recoil pad. My .308 came with a rubber butt plate that had no give to it. 165's at 2700-2800 fps gave me a concussive headache. You could probably push 125's to 2700 fps and that makes a good 125-200 yard load.

I'd love to have one but I spend my money on ammo now.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

You generally will see guides carrying a heavier back up than a 300WM. I carry a .338WM. Still, bullet choice and placement are most important. You can kill most anything with a 30-06 which is prolly the most popular big game round in the state, and, definitely the most popular during moose season. 300WM is prolly the second most popular. Some guys get off hunting big game with handguns. *shrugs*

Werd, 338 is a beast of a round. The pistol thing would just be a thrills thing for me, some people sky dive or climb dangerous mountain to get up close and personal with death. I want to get a K bar kill on a grizzly.....I'll start with the 10mm though.

 

[thør]

Werd, 338 is a beast of a round. The pistol thing would just be a thrills thing for me, some people sky dive or climb dangerous mountain to get up close and personal with death. I want to get a K bar kill on a grizzly.....I'll start with the 10mm though.

Dip your clothes in honey and go for a walk in GMU 16. Best keep the K-Bar handy.

 

[Peregrinator]

.308 is generally thought to be a bit light for big brown and ugly. Then again, grandpa killed a huge brown with a 25-35. He did have to reload. It was not a clean kill.

Yeah, obviously I was kidding. The only time I'm ever going to shoot at a bear is if it's him or me, or him or a loved one. And I doubt I'm ever going to be either the marksman or the willing bear-killer your grandpa was.

From everything I have read the 300 win mag seems to be the standard for big brown and ugly hunting. I did read an article about a guy who went grizzly hunting with a S&W 500....gangster. I wonder if 15+1 10mm would do the trick.

Probably, if all 16 were head shots.

And .358 as I recall. All would require a re-barreling. In theory you could re-bore it to .308 or .358, but that would cost you as much or more than a re-barreling and you'd destroy the collectible status. The .284 was a relatively rare chambering for the rifle, that's what adds to its value.

If you're going to go plink those bears I'd get something in .338 Win. mag. or bigger.

Glad this isn't a gun forum because what I'm about to say would start a shit storm. IMO anything in 6mm (243) or smaller is a varmint cartridge. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of .243 hunters out there that would be all over me for that statement. They'd point out how the .243 is just as lethal on whitetails as it's larger bore brethren, and they'd be right .......for a well placed shot. There is little room for error with the small cartridges. (I knew a guy that got busted for poaching and he was using a .22 mag. and taking head shots. Game and Fish took two years to finally round him up. He was damned good at what he did.)

Ishmael

It's so fucking typical of this particular uncle to leave us a rifle that's expensive as hell to shoot and of great value if we just leave it in the corner and never shoot it. It's remarkably indicative of the type of guy he was. And like I said, I doubt he ever fired it.

Meh. See above on the bears. I can see some expedition in the future where killing a bear is a serious concern, but I'll probably just carry a 12-ga. for that, as a defensive measure.

Lol...I've been haunting a few gun forums, mining information, and I can definitely see the flame war that comment would start. Makes sense though, especially for a mediocre shooter like I am. Poaching irritates me.

I have watched an old guy at my Club range try out a Gunsight Scout. His eyes aren't too good but he was getting 2" groups at 50 yards. He's tried 160-179 gr bullets and 4064. I think it's his eyes and the fact that it has a different sight every time I see him, might be the reason for the groups.

That said, I have a couple of Ruger 77's, one's a .308 with 20" barrel and it shoots pretty good, I use 100-125 gr bullets mostly to plink targets because it only weighs 6.5 pounds. Full Force 165's will rattle your teeth.

The gunsight is a nice rig, for a 16" carbine, the scout scope takes some getting used to. The old guy said it was like looking thru a toilet paper roll. Low power scopes are more for aiming rather than field of view, which is a common problem for people to compromise.

good thing is the barrel is fairly stiff and the sights are good. I'd prefer a smaller peep sight, but it is a "Battle Rifle".

I think it should shoot 150's at 2400 fps with the 16" barrel. More that that will induce a flinch because it is light, although it does have a thin recoil pad. My .308 came with a rubber butt plate that had no give to it. 165's at 2700-2800 fps gave me a concussive headache. You could probably push 125's to 2700 fps and that makes a good 125-200 yard load.

I'd love to have one but I spend my money on ammo now.

Thanks for this. I take most reviews with a grain of salt, same as I do with car reviews and travel writing. The industries are set up to support each other. It's good to hear real world experience. I have a friend who got one not too long ago, but he hasn't told me what he thinks yet.

Werd, 338 is a beast of a round. The pistol thing would just be a thrills thing for me, some people sky dive or climb dangerous mountain to get up close and personal with death. I want to get a K bar kill on a grizzly.....I'll start with the 10mm though.

What kind of a freak would climb a mountain to get a thrill?

 

[thør]

Yeah, obviously I was kidding. The only time I'm ever going to shoot at a bear is if it's him or me, or him or a loved one. And I doubt I'm ever going to be either the marksman or the willing bear-killer your grandpa was.

Grandpa's grandpa was the bear guide. You might have seen one of the bears that a client of his killed. It used to be in the entry of the Smithsonian.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Dip your clothes in honey and go for a walk in GMU 16. Best keep the K-Bar handy.

I will keep that in mind....I also thought of loading an adult diaper with fish entrails and rockin that bad boy for a day or two.

What kind of a freak would climb a mountain to get a thrill?

Psh....beats me lol. I would never do such a thing....

 

[Peregrinator]

Grandpa's grandpa was the bear guide. You might have seen one of the bears that a client of his killed. It used to be in the entry of the Smithsonian.

I've definitely seen it, then.

Psh....beats me lol. I would never do such a thing....

Nor me. God knows climbing is insane.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

I've definitely seen it, then.


Nor me. God knows climbing is insane.

lol, all joking aside I really don't do anything nuts, you couldn't pay me enough to get me on a slightly extreme climb. I really enjoyed climbing Rainier but that's about my limit. A serious fear of death from exposure keeps me off the big boy mountains.

 

[Ishmael]

It's so fucking typical of this particular uncle to leave us a rifle that's expensive as hell to shoot and of great value if we just leave it in the corner and never shoot it. It's remarkably indicative of the type of guy he was. And like I said, I doubt he ever fired it.

Meh. See above on the bears. I can see some expedition in the future where killing a bear is a serious concern, but I'll probably just carry a 12-ga. for that, as a defensive measure.

Lol...I've been haunting a few gun forums, mining information, and I can definitely see the flame war that comment would start. Makes sense though, especially for a mediocre shooter like I am. Poaching irritates me.

I wouldn't NOT shoot it, I'd just be a little on the parsimonious side doing so.

1.) Save your brass.

2.) Find and join a local Sportsmans club. In that club will be someone (or quite a few) that do reloading. I suspect that if you bought the dies, primers, bullets, and powder that there is at least one person that will reload for you. That would also give you an opportunity to look over their shoulder and find out what it's all about. Reloading is not a big deal, or a mystical art. You just have to pay attention to details.

3.) If you choose not to pursue #2, there are some specialty reloaders that have an excellent selection for the .284 from 110 gr up to 175 gr. They aren't cheap, but they are good loads. Conley Precision is one.

As far as relative costs go if you go with #2.

Dies 1 time cost Approx. $30
Bullets Approx. $66/100
Primers Approx. $28/1000
Powder Approx. $20/lb

If you ignore the die cost you're looking at about $16/box for the reloads. (If you use an economical powder like 4895.) And you're paying how much for a box of 20 now????

Ishmael

 

[unregistered]

 

[Peregrinator]

lol, all joking aside I really don't do anything nuts, you couldn't pay me enough to get me on a slightly extreme climb. I really enjoyed climbing Rainier but that's about my limit. A serious fear of death from exposure keeps me off the big boy mountains.

I have no particular need to go to the Himalaya to climb. I wouldn't mind doing some trekking and stuff there. Then again, if someone invited me to an 8 000 meter peak, I'd say yes in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't NOT shoot it, I'd just be a little on the parsimonious side doing so.

1.) Save your brass.

2.) Find and join a local Sportsmans club. In that club will be someone (or quite a few) that do reloading. I suspect that if you bought the dies, primers, bullets, and powder that there is at least one person that will reload for you. That would also give you an opportunity to look over their shoulder and find out what it's all about. Reloading is not a big deal, or a mystical art. You just have to pay attention to details.

3.) If you choose not to pursue #2, there are some specialty reloaders that have an excellent selection for the .284 from 110 gr up to 175 gr. They aren't cheap, but they are good loads. Conley Precision is one.

As far as relative costs go if you go with #2.

Dies 1 time cost Approx. $30
Bullets Approx. $66/100
Primers Approx. $28/1000
Powder Approx. $20/lb

If you ignore the die cost you're looking at about $16/box for the reloads. (If you use an economical powder like 4895.) And you're paying how much for a box of 20 now????

Ishmael

Certainly a lot cheaper. Best price I've found is $45 or so a box. Crazy. I was adding the cost of a press to initial outlay. There's a club here in my town...I'll have to call again about joining. I think you have to be sponsored or some shit.

 

[Ishmael]

Certainly a lot cheaper. Best price I've found is $45 or so a box. Crazy. I was adding the cost of a press to initial outlay. There's a club here in my town...I'll have to call again about joining. I think you have to be sponsored or some shit.

I think you'll find it's worth it. And if anyone is leaving any .308 brass laying around, pick it up. .284 is nothing more than .308 necked down to 7mm. Once you have the dies it's merely one pass through the die and then a little case trimming.

Ishmael

 

[unregistered]

 

[Peregrinator]

I think you'll find it's worth it. And if anyone is leaving any .308 brass laying around, pick it up. .284 is nothing more than .308 necked down to 7mm. Once you have the dies it's merely one pass through the die and then a little case trimming.

Ishmael

I may have to take a trip to the range to pick up some of the brass I left behind the first time. After that I got smart and saved it. Thanks for the tip on the .308 as well.

Recently I sent a friend of mine a thousand .223 cases and he reloaded them for $300 bucks or .03 cents apiece. There were six of us going on the same prairie dog hunt, we each bought a 1000 rounds for a total of 6000 rounds, so he bought in volume, but still made money on the deal. I'll have enough .223 rounds a few more trips.

I would hope that 6 000 rounds would get you through a few days.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[Peregrinator]

Pereg, just to give you an idea, minus the cost of brass, I'm reloading 7MM Mag rounds for about .80 a piece. That's using quality Nosler Accubond 160 gr bullets.

That was the number that he got a price break on in purchasing components.

Gotcha. I'm convinced. I may just buy the tools and reload the damn things myself.