House cats - killers?

[intothewoods]

It's a commercial site, for a company that makes lures.

"We recycle... but we don't want your old aluminum cans or plastic soda bottles. We do, however, want your squirrel tails. We need them to create hand-tied dressed hooks that do a great job catching fish. We know this for a fact because, here at Mepps, we've been recycling squirrel tails for about a half a century, and we recycle more of them than anyone else. This makes us some kind of recycling pioneer and we're proud of it."


Knowing that people eat squirrel makes that more comprehensible.

Huh. Interesting.

Eating squirrel. I wonder if any -- no, I will not turn the thread into a discussion about what Jews do. Of course, the food hijack discussion has begun, which is close enough.

 

[intothewoods]

The idea of it being some kind of green recycling thing is really twisted to me - didn't we used to call that "all the parts of the buffalo" or something?

Odd, but I suppose it is recycling if people really eat squirrel and throw away the tail.

 

[ownedsubgal]

The idea of it being some kind of green recycling thing is really twisted to me - didn't we used to call that "all the parts of the buffalo" or something?

have you ever met a taxidermist? i knew one who boasted about how he could turn roadkill into art. talk about living green...*holds tummy*

 

[Netzach]

have you ever met a taxidermist? i knew one who boasted about how he could turn roadkill into art. talk about living green...*holds tummy*

I have not. Yet, I should say.

However road sign in WI:

Apples Cider Fudge Taxidermy Cheese

*hurl*

 

[BiBunny]

Squirrel is the LEAST of the things some folks eat. *Shudder*

Wild turkey is the shiznit, though.

 

[Netzach]

Squirrel is the LEAST of the things some folks eat. *Shudder*

Wild turkey is the shiznit, though.

Is it good?

I mean I'll totally abandon all "awww" if it's really really good...

 

[ownedsubgal]

I have not. Yet, I should say.

However road sign in WI:

Apples Cider Fudge Taxidermy Cheese

*hurl*

ummm yeah. those things all go together....

 

[Netzach]

ummm yeah. those things all go together....

I know isn't it just?

And porn. Also roadside porn along with.

 

[satindesire]

Is it good?

I mean I'll totally abandon all "awww" if it's really really good...

I actually asked my dad about this, who apparently had eaten squirrel very regularly as a child, teen and young adult. He says it's fantastic in some parts of the country, where they have a good diet, but in other parts of the country where they're eating garbage and whatnot, it's disgusting.

So apparently, it's like all wild game. Location Location Location.

 

[BiBunny]

Is it good?

I mean I'll totally abandon all "awww" if it's really really good...

I've never had squirrel, actually. I'm not brave enough to try all the wild game that other people eat, LOL. From what I understand, it's kind of greasy and is better in things like stews and squirrel dumplings and such rather than on its own. I have no idea, though.

 

[graceanne]

People eat squirrel? What does it taste like?

Chicken. No, seriously. When we lived in Missouri we were really poor. There was no food so Mom's boyfriend went out and shot a few squirrels and made stew. It was good.

 

[graceanne]

chewy. not very good, imo. our high school archaeology teacher shot and skinned one, then skewered it and set it to bbq over a handmade fire. we all had to taste. the point was to show us a typical diet for confederate soldiers during the War.

please don't ask what that had to do with archaeology, it was Virginia, lol.

Anything cooked on a skewer over a handmade fire isn't going to be very good. Unless it's a hotdog, and that's debatable. I hate hotdogs.

 

[Shankara20]

who boasted about how he could turn roadkill into art

Roadkill - it ain't fast food, 'cause if it were fast it wouldn't be food...


ba-dum-bum tsssh!

 

[Keroin]

I share your perspective on this.

There is an enormous and exceedingly lovely park in Richmond, called Maymont. Osg told me about it before I went. Part of the land is set aside as a sanctuary for native animals of Virginia.

Both the black bear and fox exhibits were expansive, natural settings. Yet the animals paced, back and forth, back and forth, same spot, over and over, incessantly. The ranger said they were not waiting to be fed; this is classic "I'm going insane in confinement" behavior.

If zoos had taught us respect for elephants, there would be no elephants in circuses, 2009.

We are the minority but it's a minority I'm happy to be a part of.

Pacing, I hate pacing. It's like a neon sign that reads, "This is not natural". Amazing what people choose not to see.

Side note: the humpback whales are back! (Part of their annual migration). I watched one breech and fluke-flap, from the beach, for about 20 minutes. Spectacular!!

 

[WriterDom]

My father was a hunter who grew up very poor with lots of brothers and he never hunted squirrels as an adult. That tells me they aren't that good. He would go out at night and shoot frogs but that was before my time. He was more of a bird hunter and a fisherman when I knew him. We always camped on the river on opening day of trout season. My older brothers kept it up for a bit then moved to motel rooms. Then it changed to maybe once a year during the summer. I think I'll do it next year even if I have to go with my Yankee brother-in-law.

 

[00Syd]

A good friend of the family was raised in what she would describe as a hillbilly household, and when I was a kid she told me about how he mom would, every once in a while, serve the kids "SQ Chicken." It wasn't until she was older that she realized her mother had been serving her squirrel. Supposedly it really does taste like chicken.

 

[Homburg]

My island does have an aquarium, a huge one - it's called a lagoon. Tourists don't even have to swim to see fish, they can just, literally, stand on the shore and see them. There is no need to pay to see a dead fish here. No need. So, I don't think I prove your argument at all.

Well, I agree that there is no need to pay to see a dead fish, but people will do so. There is the impulse to see things out of the ordinary, and animals ping that impulse pretty strongly.

I don't know how your lagoon is, and what fish tend towards the shore. Or, for that matter, what fish kids kill to pimp for dollars. The point was that a safe, comparatively humane display would obviate the "demand" side of the "supply and demand" equation vis a vis seeing fish.

My old neighbourhood, in Canada, used to have deer, pheasants, squirrels, you name it. Now it has condos and strip malls. I see green spaces and animal habitat being polluted and mowed down more and more every year. Currently, a small group of us are fighting to save one of the few grizzly habitats left from getting bulldozed for a ski resort. There are already tons of ski resorts in that area, we don't need another ski resort, the grizzlies do need a place to live.

This has nothing to do with zoos, outlook, or action. This is an argument against population itself. We expand, it's what we do. It sucks, and it is non-sustainable, but it is the nature of EVERY organism. Each population will expand to fill the boundaries it is capable of keeping in whatever environment it inhabits. Put a pair of frogs in a pond and they will multiply until they hit the point that the pond can no longer sustain more frogs, predation keeps them in check, etc.

As a species, we are the apex predators of all time on this planet, and adaptable to any environment (with sufficient technological help). This means we can, and eventually will, expand everywhere. Sans predation, the only check possible will be food/water/etc resources running out in a given area, or just flat worldwide.

Outlook and action are two different animals - pun intended. Attitudes may have changed, zoos may be more humane, but the majority of wild animals are not better off today than they were twenty, thirty or forty years ago, they are, actually, much worse off. That is reality. For every step forward, we also take three steps back.

Well, I can't disagree that things have gotten worse, but that is as much a function of population growth as anything else. How many humans were on this planet in 1970 compared to how many today? All those bodies need places to live.

That said, I will disagree again that attitudes have not changed, and that we are somehow not more aware. I can point to numerous major road construction projects that have been put on indefinite hold or flat halted because of animal or environmental health concerns. Various businesses are forced to be more animal-aware due to public pressure. Green products are becoming more and more common.

Personally, I see improvement. It is counterbalanced by the number of babies we're popping out, but attitudes have improved, and people are more active.

I just got back in from a fabulous snorkel outside the reef. A Hawksbill turtle came and hung out with me, awesome. As I watch that turtle glide by me, every molecule in my heart, my gut and my brain scream that this is where he/she belongs, not in a tank. I rant and I rant and I rant and I sound like a broken record and I sound judgmental and I'm sorry for that but I love these creatures, I love them. I want them to be wild and free.

See, just please don't encourage me. I'm too emotional about this issue.

*shrug* I don't blame you. I'd rather they were free too. But I also see the educational and political (referring to the politics of conservation, not human politics) worth of such displays, especially when they are handled like the one I mentioned.

And, for the record, circuses suck.

 

[Netzach]

Outlook and action are two different animals - pun intended. Attitudes may have changed, zoos may be more humane, but the majority of wild animals are not better off today than they were twenty, thirty or forty years ago, they are, actually, much worse off. That is reality. For every step forward, we also take three steps back.

Well, I can't disagree that things have gotten worse, but that is as much a function of population growth as anything else. How many humans were on this planet in 1970 compared to how many today? All those bodies need places to live.

That said, I will disagree again that attitudes have not changed, and that we are somehow not more aware. I can point to numerous major road construction projects that have been put on indefinite hold or flat halted because of animal or environmental health concerns. Various businesses are forced to be more animal-aware due to public pressure. Green products are becoming more and more common.

Personally, I see improvement. It is counterbalanced by the number of babies we're popping out, but attitudes have improved, and people are more active.



*shrug* I don't blame you. I'd rather they were free too. But I also see the educational and political (referring to the politics of conservation, not human politics) worth of such displays, especially when they are handled like the one I mentioned.

And, for the record, circuses suck.

I also think that the number of my peers whose reaction is "there's an elephant, let's feed it a lit cigarette" is much fewer in number than among my grandma's generation and her mother's. Then roll back the clock more. The first zoo was in the tower of London, and was little more than a bear baiting ring with a couple of unlucky lions as extra decor.

I don't think bear baiting or dog fights would be on NBC. If we hadn't changed in the least, they would be. Animal torture would probably be its own channel.

Our relationships to animals are a complicated venn diagram of attitude, environmental impact, and anthropomorphizing assumption. If nothing else it's all pretty weird to see the contradictions. There are laws. They aren't enforced very well, but there are still laws on the books. You can't tell me it's as good as living in the same West that thought dogs killing bears as the warm up act to a beheading was amusement.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Cirque Du Soleil is going to bury Ringling and it's icky ilk financially.

The problem is our expansion, mainly. It's like the same people who will post anti Walmart slave labor posts on their iphones - most of us live in a house and consume shit made in a factory and that's what's really killing the fluffy bunnies and sea turtles. I feel about as bad for the sea turtle outside as the one inside the aquarium as in we're all pretty fucked. I don't think education solves the problem of expansion. I don't think that it can. Awareness is not an automatic self-modulator of behavior. You generally have to get the heart attack cancer wake up scare before rethinking your diet. Apply consumption metaphor.

 

[Homburg]

I also think that the number of my peers whose reaction is "there's an elephant, let's feed it a lit cigarette" is much fewer in number than among my grandma's generation and her mother's. Then roll back the clock more. The first zoo was in the tower of London, and was little more than a bear baiting ring with a couple of unlucky lions as extra decor.

I don't think bear baiting or dog fights would be on NBC. If we hadn't changed in the least, they would be. Animal torture would probably be its own channel.

Very much so. As a species, we have quite the appetite for cruelty. As a culture, not so much.

Our relationships to animals are a complicated venn diagram of attitude, environmental impact, and anthropomorphizing assumption. If nothing else it's all pretty weird to see the contradictions. There are laws. They aren't enforced very well, but there are still laws on the books. You can't tell me it's as good as living in the same West that thought dogs killing bears as the warm up act to a beheading was amusement.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Cirque Du Soleil is going to bury Ringling and it's icky ilk financially.

I hope so. Then again, I'm one of those people who is more impressed by incredibly skillful, well-trained humans than I am incredibly skillful, well-trained animals. The humans can quit.

The problem is our expansion, mainly. It's like the same people who will post anti Walmart slave labor posts on their iphones - most of us live in a house and consume shit made in a factory and that's what's really killing the fluffy bunnies and sea turtles. I feel about as bad for the sea turtle outside as the one inside the aquarium as in we're all pretty fucked.

Yup, world population in 1970 was around 3.7 billion. Today, it is around 6.8 billion. Little bit of difference there. When we hit that point where the food being produced is insufficient for the mouths that hunger for it, you won't need to feel bad about the turtle. He'll have been on someone's plate by then.

And, yeah, we're proper fucked.

 

[00Syd]

I don't care how cruel and heartless I am, I love both zoos and aquariums, but my enjoyment of both is nothing compared to how much I absolutely love circuses. I love circuses and sideshows more than most things and and I love circuses with elephants much more than the whimsical ones with people in silly costumes and I like sideshows with bearded ladies better than the ones with magicians. One of the highlights of my European trip was going to The Hungarian State Circus where they have LIONS. It was amazing.

Yes, I'm a jerk with a heart of ice who loves the circus and also eats veal. Feel free to tell me how much I suck, but trust me, I'm already aware. I suck. But, y'know what? These are some of my main passions and interests and great loves of my life. I'll find a way to live with the guilt of my forbidden circus-love, I'm sure.

 

[JMohegan]

I also think that the number of my peers whose reaction is "there's an elephant, let's feed it a lit cigarette" is much fewer in number than among my grandma's generation and her mother's. Then roll back the clock more. The first zoo was in the tower of London, and was little more than a bear baiting ring with a couple of unlucky lions as extra decor.

I don't think bear baiting or dog fights would be on NBC. If we hadn't changed in the least, they would be. Animal torture would probably be its own channel.

Our relationships to animals are a complicated venn diagram of attitude, environmental impact, and anthropomorphizing assumption. If nothing else it's all pretty weird to see the contradictions. There are laws. They aren't enforced very well, but there are still laws on the books. You can't tell me it's as good as living in the same West that thought dogs killing bears as the warm up act to a beheading was amusement.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Cirque Du Soleil is going to bury Ringling and it's icky ilk financially.

The problem is our expansion, mainly. It's like the same people who will post anti Walmart slave labor posts on their iphones - most of us live in a house and consume shit made in a factory and that's what's really killing the fluffy bunnies and sea turtles. I feel about as bad for the sea turtle outside as the one inside the aquarium as in we're all pretty fucked. I don't think education solves the problem of expansion. I don't think that it can. Awareness is not an automatic self-modulator of behavior. You generally have to get the heart attack cancer wake up scare before rethinking your diet. Apply consumption metaphor.

I don't think there's any question that the attitude of humans toward explicit animal torture as human entertainment has shifted a bit. But even though we no longer celebrate dogs killing bears, the day-to-day obscenity of factory farm misery doesn't seem to bother most - perhaps because we can pretend not to see it.

I do think it's fair to ask why any shift in attitudes has occurred. In addressing this question, I really don't see zoos and aquariums as helping. I see them as contributing to the problem, because they are largely enjoyed for entertainment and usually do not provide information impugning captivity itself.

How many tiger exhibits have plaques or rangers on hand to explain why the animal is pacing?

Check out all this educational info on dolphins and beluga whales. Presumably, similar information is available at the park. Is that sufficient cover for the evil that is Sea World? I really don't think so.

 

[00Syd]

I'll also say thay I'd LOVE to go see Lions in their natural habitat, and that that would be way, way, way more amazing in every way than seeing them in the Zoo, but since that's not available to me I'll content myself with marveling at the stuffed ones in the beautiful diorama in the Museum of Natural History, the ones at the zoo, and the ones jumping through hoops in the Hungarian State Circus.

I'm a sucker for entertainment, both humane and cruel, what can I say? I guess that's why I'm going into the movie buisness.

 

[JMohegan]

I don't care how cruel and heartless I am, I love both zoos and aquariums, but my enjoyment of both is nothing compared to how much I absolutely love circuses. I love circuses and sideshows more than most things and and I love circuses with elephants much more than the whimsical ones with people in silly costumes and I like sideshows with bearded ladies better than the ones with magicians. One of the highlights of my European trip was going to The Hungarian State Circus where they have LIONS. It was amazing.

Yes, I'm a jerk with a heart of ice who loves the circus and also eats veal. Feel free to tell me how much I suck, but trust me, I'm already aware. I suck. But, y'know what? These are some of my main passions and interests and great loves of my life. I'll find a way to live with the guilt of my forbidden circus-love, I'm sure.

The only reason to worry would be the existence of a god who is just.

I'd say you're safe on this score.

 

[00Syd]

The only reason to worry would be the existence of a god who is just.

I'd say you're safe on this score.

That's what I figure, too.

 

[00Syd]

P.T. Barnum was probably my greatest childhood hero.