How is all this Republican overreach going to play out in November 2014?

[unregistered]

 

[BotanyBoy]

But, OTOH, at least he did succeed in destroying the Corps' image, such as it was.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Dude the boot scene in FMJ was prob the greatest recruiting advertisement the corps ever had....

 

[unregistered]

 

[KRCummings]

But, OTOH, at least he did succeed in destroying the Corps' image, such as it was. (Not in undermining the war effort. 1987 was rather too late for that.)

No he didn't. The only people who thought less of the Marines after that movie came out were people who thought that anyway.

 

[KRCummings]

I should have said the image of the war, as the movie was made some twenty years later and couldn't possibly have affected morale at the time, but it was an anti-war movie, if there ever is such a thing. Stanley Krubrick himself was an anti-war leftist.

Within the officialdom of the Marine Corps itself it was and is considered a blow to the image of the Marine Corps. Marine Corps brass do not like to shine the public spotlight on what goes on behind that green hedge at MCRD, San Diego, or in the training areas of Parris Island. The movie did exactly that, and in all of my experience with the Corps, I have never heard of a recruit saving a live round off the range (very strict accounting there) and using it to kill a DI. That disturbed of a recruit would have been weeded out long before.

Krubrick didn't know he was going to steal the show until Ermey told him that no British actor was ever going to be credible as a U.S. Marine Drill Instructor, and went to great lengths proving it to him, even making a video of himself reciting some well practiced and self written strings of profanity that any Marine Drill Instructor would have been proud of. If you've ever known and real DIs, they sit around the Staff NCO Club comparing and creating world class strings of Marine jargon, profanity, and cadence calls. It takes many hours for them to scream them out without cracking themselves up, iron discipline.

I don't know where you get your info on Kubrick but it's way off. He was an almost stereotypical centrist. He was a capitalist and he had no problems with guns or even war itself. He was sorta liberal when he was young but his later work and his own words clearly show he changed to a more centrist view.
He was a strange man who knew how to make decent movies. Overrated I think but still a great filmmaker.
As for the movie, everyone has a problem with Pyle stealing the live ammo. It's a sore point with anyone who's ever seen the movie. However if I remember right from the book and no explanation is given in that either. It just is. The boot scenes mostly follow the book with the final scene in the book actually being a little better than the movie because gunny tells Pyle he's proud of him before he's killed. Typical DI.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You're talking to a major Milquetoast, to which such an adventure has never been rational or appealing.

IDK...some folks just aren't about doing the most hardcore shit there ever was, and I totally get it. After 4 years of it I quit being about the doing the most hardcore shit there ever was...total shit bag my last 2 1/2 years in, the only part I took seriously was looking out for my guys everything else was bare minimum Botany....squad leader of "Fuck yo' paper work sir!! fuck yo' paper work!!"
http://www.adamtglass.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/tumblr_l55mrpGJlf1qzrkqs.gif

 

[RobDownSouth]

This thread has been seriously threadjacked.

*wipes hands*

My work here is done.

 

[KRCummings]

This thread has been seriously threadjacked.

*wipes hands*

My work here is done.

Any time FMJ is brought up in a thread it becomes hijacked. The movie just gets people going. No matter what the critics say about it, you know it did its job when people still argue it 30 years later.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Any time FMJ is brought up in a thread it becomes hijacked. The movie just gets people going. No matter what the critics say about it, you know it did its job when people still argue it 30 years later.

True, but until today I didn't think Heartbreak Ridge evoked any strong reaction from anyone other than Vetty (and HE thinks it's his autobiography!)

 

[KRCummings]

True, but until today I didn't think Heartbreak Ridge evoked any strong reaction from anyone other than Vetty (and HE thinks it's his autobiography!)

To be honest that would have gone unnoticed if Pete hadn't said what a great movie he thought it was. Can't take that lying down. Not as a Marine or a film buff. Just can't allow it.

 

[KingOrfeo]

. . . but it was an anti-war movie, if there ever is such a thing.

Do Not Do This Cool Thing.

"You're watching Futurama, the show that does not advocate the cool crime of robbery!"

— Futurama, "Bender Should Not Be Allowed on TV"

You want to have An Aesop about something that we should avoid at all costs. Trouble is, just by showing or describing it in lavish detail, you end up undermining your message by showing just how damn appealing it is and cause the audience to get the wrong idea.

This trope is especially easy to fall into when a piece of media aims for a realistic portrayal of why people get lured into things like smoking, doing drugs, fighting awesome action sequences, etc., thereby identifying to the audience what others see in it, possibly causing them to view it in a light they hadn't previously seen it in. Conversely to this trope, if you gloss over the very real appeal, you end up with a bad habit that it seems no rational person would ever pick up (akin to an ad reading "Stop Punching Kittens"). The trick is finding the balance between getting the audience to understand the appeal and understanding why these things are bad. If the negative aspects don't come across as outweighing the appeal, this trope comes into effect. This makes the vice into Forbidden Fruit and therefore much more appealing when the audience is told not to do it.

<snip>

The trope was formerly called "Truffaut was right", named for French director François Truffaut who noted that you simply cannot make a truly anti-war movie.

 

[KingOrfeo]

In real life Drill will fuck your shit up because he can....and he will continue to fuck your world up until he thinks you are adequately hard enough to earn your title, or you quit and go home an embarrassed bitch the rest of your fucking life. It's what they do...

Is all of that strictly necessary, do you think, to make a soldier?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Within the officialdom of the Marine Corps itself it was and is considered a blow to the image of the Marine Corps. Marine Corps brass do not like to shine the public spotlight on what goes on behind that green hedge at MCRD, San Diego, or in the training areas of Parris Island. The movie did exactly that, and in all of my experience with the Corps, I have never heard of a recruit saving a live round off the range (very strict accounting there) and using it to kill a DI. That disturbed of a recruit would have been weeded out long before.

Then how did Ermey ever get in? (Assuming his mind and personality bear any resemblance at all to Hartmann's.)

If you've ever known and real DIs, they sit around the Staff NCO Club comparing and creating world class strings of Marine jargon, profanity, and cadence calls. It takes many hours for them to scream them out without cracking themselves up, iron discipline.

I did not know, and am not as surprised as I might have expected.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Dude the boot scene in FMJ was prob the greatest recruiting advertisement the corps ever had....

You wanna get in line so some screaming stupid bully can make you choke yourself with his hand and threaten to skull-fuck your eye-sockets?! And you have to call the worthless piece of shit "Sir!" at the beginning and end of every sentence, yet?!

 

[KingOrfeo]

The movie did exactly that, and in all of my experience with the Corps, I have never heard of a recruit saving a live round off the range (very strict accounting there) and using it to kill a DI.

IIRC, he must have taken at least two rounds.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I was in the Air Force, and our Training Instructors were mother-fuckers. At the San Antonio airport the biggest effing Indian in history picked up two assclowns and tossed them across the room. I was in the barracks a minute when the TI kicked the crap outta the barracks guard. My TI was like 5-4 and built like baby Godzilla, he ran behind us kicking asses who tried to walk. Loved the guy!

I remember Queer Call when Master Sergeant Greene tried to find the queers in the squadron.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Like with most things we can agree to disagree. You can draw your own conclusions form this:

In an interview with Kubrick in the Chicago Tribune, he states…

Yet to view ``Full Metal Jacket`` as an antiwar film is too simplistic, Kubrick said. ``I guess that`s what the producer of `Platoon` said in his Oscar speech—that he hoped they had made a film to end all wars.

``But there may be a fallacy in antiwar films that showing people war is bad will make them less willing to fight a war,`` Kubrick said. `` `Full Metal Jacket` suggests that there is more to say about war than it is just bad.

`The Vietnam war was, of course, horribly wrong from the start, but I think it may have taught us something valuable. We would probably be fighting now in Nicaragua had it not been for Vietnam. I think the message has certainly gotten through that you don`t even begin to think about fighting a war unless your survival depends upon it. Fancy theories about falling dominoes won`t do in the future.``

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/.../8702160471_1_kubrick-full-metal-jacket-joker

Oh, we need whatever wars we can get to sort out the men from the cowards. Mao or Chou En Lai usta say that perfessers and college students are all cowards. Its true.

War is all about offering the gals a real choice as to who they make babies with.

 

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[KingOrfeo]

It all has a purpose, you just don't understand.

Is all of that strictly necessary, do you think, to make a soldier?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It all has a purpose, you just don't understand.

They really don't understand.

Its a rite of passage where a shitbird walks in the front door and a disciplined man goes out the back door. The military shaves about 20 years off the maturation time.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KRCummings]

Is all of that strictly necessary, do you think, to make a soldier?

Yes. Anyone who thinks differently knows nothing of being a soldier.