How others see us. Examples.

[Debbie]

I replied to Pure's thread in the GLBT forum. But wanted to say here that I think it is disrespectful to post someone's story without at least pm'ing them first and talking to them about posting their story as an example.


A topic such as "BDSM: How others see us" is a very important one.

I am nilla. (With a twist here and there) I write about BDSM. I take my writing seriously and do a lot of research. (And put a lot of thought into them.)

I also have long in depth talks with people who have lived and been in the BDSM lifestyle for a long time and try and write my stories as accurately and respectfully as I can.

 

[Pure]

Hi Debbie,

you said,

I replied to Pure's thread in the GLBT forum. But wanted to say here that I think it is disrespectful to post someone's story without at least pm'ing them first and talking to them about posting their story as an example.


A topic such as "BDSM: How others see us" is a very important one.

I am nilla. (With a twist here and there) I write about BDSM. I take my writing seriously and do a lot of research. (And put a lot of thought into them.)

I also have long in depth talks with people who have lived and been in the BDSM lifestyle for a long time and try and write my stories as accurately and respectfully as I can.

First of all, we are in agreement that, from courtesy, authors should be asked, and this I have previously done, where possible.
I'm not sure if you agree, however, that ultimately the author cannot cite any rule here or in law, to prevent excerping and dicsussion of his/her work. Esp. here where it's already here at lit., for free download.

Since I don' t know you, I'm not sure you should assume anything about me; and it would be odd to see you fighting on one side or the other *of the specific case* at hand.

Without re-hashing, I've said, in explanation, that where an author is continuously posting--discourteous- attacks and nasty comments over a period of months, *while not herself ever actually been mentioned* I believe normal 'courtesy' requirements become beside the point**, and permission seeking becomes a useless exercise. But probably pro forma, I would have been prudent to do it, so as to have a nasty refusal in hand, prior to the public.

Please note that Perd is on record publicly as saying (roughly) "You [pure] should have asked permission beforehand, and I would have refused it."

So Debbie, rest assured that, if we assume a clean slate, and a lack of obsessional grudge being continuous posted, you and any others would be asked, and will be asked, if the thread doesn't sink in continued flames from the lady at issue and her folllowers, and their grandiose attempts to have *the world* boycott discussion here of the sacred words.

As proof that the discussion intention was genuine, I ask you or anyone to read the thread so far and see if the work itself is dealt with maliciously or even disrespectully. Even where a person declares their enmity, their work is looked at carefully, at least by me. Esp. with a skilled and careful wriiter, such as Perdita. You will note that the work has received several compliments, and is receiving free publicity in that respect, besides critique.

So, taking your posting at face value, as expressio of concern, and as endorsement of common practice, I believe you will see agreement and that at present you need have no worries, nor should any talented writer, including Ms Perdita.

Best,
J.

Added: **Not wholly irrelevant. Perd received a polite notification that the story was posted for excerpting and discussion. And she received a polite reply declining her demand to remove the story from the thread. Her substantive points here have been calmly addressed, though at time her flames--and those of her friends drawn in-- have received definitely impolite replies.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello Pure,
I have been checking the American copyrights laws and the Literotica copyright agreement between the writers and literotica.

by FAQ literotica
http://www.literotica.com/faq.shtml#copyright
- If I submit a story to Literotica, do I still own the copyright?
Absolutely. You are simply granting us a non-exclusive right to post your story on Literotica.com. All rights to the story still belong to you, the author.

The copyright of a story is still that of the writer however the writer grants LITEROTICA the right to post the story on literotica.com. Since you are not LITEROTICA, you do not have the right to post stories without the writer’s permission. That means that you are actually performing a copyright infringement. The law states that an infringement of copyright will generally occur where a “substantial part” of a work is used in one of the ways exclusively reserved to the copyright owner. A part may be considered “substantial” if it is an important, essential or distinct part. There are many court cases about whether using part of a work infringed copyright, such as the case where the court held that reproducing 4 lines from a 32 line Kipling poem infringed copyright.
You might be interested in taking a look at http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html which explains copyright to you.

Basically you are not only being antagonistic, but you are also breaking the law. Of course the writers who have not given you permission to publish part of their work have the option to report it to a moderator.

Francisco.

 

[Pure]

Hi Francisco,

Thank you for your lay advice and opinion, but I take it you are not a moderator; you lack both authority here, and expert knowledge. And Catalina has passed the matter to Laurel. If Laurel has a problem, I'll perhaps reduce the amount quoted, but I actually thought it was doing the author a favor to show a little background to ch 5.

From the website you referred me to, the entire relevant section is as follows. Please note how the question of 'commercial' value arises, and that Perd has posted it for free download for some months, by thousands of people. Far from being hurt, in a commercial sense, she may gain. Likewise I gain nothing commercial in the discussion, which I regard as educational.

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use38
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors. [end] {my bold}

Thank you for your concern.

Best,
J.

PS: Incidentally, regarding the Spanish phrase, "a dios" I have the following message from a native speaker and college professor {KB}:

{KB}: "The words a dios are fine to use separately as you suggested."

What you're not giving attention to, is that grammaticality of a **phrase** is a tricky proposition. Consider the English "Till Tommorrow." It's fine. Likewise, "To the devil." Further, phrases that may look odd, might, in a sentence, be grammatical.
And vice versa. For instance, "Cow of till tomorrow" is clearly ungrammatical.

I do with great deference acknowledge that my keyboard lacks a tilde and I fucked up on an article ("la"). I acknowledge you as an educated, bright person, a native in Spanish, and master of English; this, regardless of your personal animosities, misguided attempts at intimidation, and gratuitous insults on others' behalves.

J.
------

F said,


The copyright of a story is still that of the writer however the writer grants LITEROTICA the right to post the story on literotica.com. Since you are not LITEROTICA, you do not have the right to post stories without the writer’s permission. That means that you are actually performing a copyright infringement. The law states that an infringement of copyright will generally occur where a “substantial part” of a work is used in one of the ways exclusively reserved to the copyright owner. A part may be considered “substantial” if it is an important, essential or distinct part. There are many court cases about whether using part of a work infringed copyright, such as the case where the court held that reproducing 4 lines from a 32 line Kipling poem infringed copyright.
You might be interested in taking a look at http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html which explains copyright to you.

Basically you are not only being antagonistic, but you are also breaking the law. Of course the writers who have not given you permission to publish part of their work have the option to report it to a moderator.

Francisco.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Pure IMHO you are mistaken, since it is highly doubtful the reproduction of the work is for educational uses criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research. We can all see clearly the reason why the work has been reproduced, most noticeably by the choices you have made out of the multitude available.
By the way I know what I am talking about here; these kind of things are part of my work. I deal with copyright infringement on the Internet on a regular basis. As I have said before, I am an internet security consultant, which for a big part is monitoring and implementing measures and practices in relation to law and copyright as it applies to the Internet. Copyright laws are a major part of this, and of course I am more accustomed in dealing with the European copyright laws, but those are essentially the same as the USA.

As you are aware, the fact something is available for free download has no impact on the copyright except that by publishing it you are actually setting the copyright. There are special exceptions in the Copyright Act which allow use of copyright material for certain purposes without permission. The special exceptions most relevant to readers of this thread are likely to be:
- fair dealing for criticism or review; and
- fair dealing for research or study.

Criticism or review
You may use a work, or part of a work, for the purposes of criticism or review without the copyright owner's permission. For example, you may reproduce an extract from a book in a newspaper review provided your use is fair, and genuinely for the purpose of criticism or review. You must also identify the work and its author. In one case, the court referred to the following Macquarie Dictionary definitions:
"criticism"
1. the act or art of analyzing and judging the quality of a literary or artistic work, etc:
literary criticism.
2. the act of passing judgment as to the merits of something..
.4. a critical comment, article or essay; a critique."
"review"
1. a critical article or report, as in a periodical, on some literary work, commonly some work of recent appearance; a critique...

Research or study
You may use a work, or part of a work, for the purposes of research or study without the copyright owner's permission. For example, you may reproduce a quote or extract in an essay or thesis written as part of a course of study. Your use must be fair and genuinely for the purpose of research or study. The Copyright Act provides that it is fair to copy up to 10% or one chapter of a literary, dramatic or musical work published in an edition of more than 10 pages, and up to one article from a periodical, or more than one if they relate to the same subject matter. When a literary or dramatic work is in electronic form (eg on the internet) 10% of the number of words may be copied.

Reporting news
You may use a work or part of a work for the purpose of reporting the news in newspapers, magazines and similar periodicals, and in reporting news in "communications" (such as broadcasts and on websites) or in film’s, provided the dealing is fair. If your report is published in the print media, you must identify both the work and the author.

The fact remains that if a writer objects, although it is you who is making the copyright violation under internet law, it is Literotica who is responsible for copyright infringements and it is Literotica who is in offence if Literotica does not take action. Would Literotica be my client then my advice would be to take immediate action to free themselves from possible legal recourse.

Also if you read the Forum guidelines point 3.
http://www.literotica.com/support/forum_rules.shtml

3. Do not post copyrighted images or articles in their entirety. Fair use laws allow some posting of copyrighted material, such as excerpts from articles and screen captures from movies, under certain circumstances. Please do a Google search under "Fair Use" if you want to understand this issue better.

Now about adios since I enjoy talking about Spanish which is in my opinion the most beautiful and romantic language in the world. I do not mind explaining to you the difference between a Dios and adios.
Adios actually comes from vaya con Dios, which means go with God.
A dios means like I have said before to god. An example of the proper usage of a dios would be:
le doy gracias a Dios - I give thanks to god.
You will notice the fact that Dios is written with capital D. In Spanish, it is custom when speaking about God "Dios", to write it in Capital D, of course only when we are talking about the Christian god.

God is in Spanish male, we are always talking about el Dios, if you would like to use la then you have to make it la Diosa, which means the goddess. It is quite normal for someone who does not speak Spanish to make mistakes in it and I might have overreacted a bit to your improper usage of Spanish.

However all of this is just throwing oil on the fire, Pure I simply do not understand what you are doing, forget about legalities and the finer points of Spanish. What I simply can not understand is how someone, whom I under normal circumstances respect, can go against the wishes of a writer and publish and discuss a story which the writer does not want to be discussed in BDSM talk. Personal feelings aside between yourself and any other person, to me it is a mystery what you are doing.

You are too intelligent to not have known what the result was going to be from your actions. It is clear from your own words on the thread that there is one mutual agreement between yourself and Perdita and that is you do not like each other. To start a thread discussing her work against her wishes can only mean one thing, it is an attempt to start a flame war. IMHO this is my (and I know of others who have the same) perception of this thread.

Literotica is a place where writers and readers can come together as one big community and discuss our work. We are here to learn and to communicate; using the work of someone to start a flame war is beneath you and the only thing that you are accomplishing is you are damaging your reputation, a reputation you have built by being honest, open and impartial. We are all human and we all do things which with hindsight could have been performed better, we all know I often do things which with hindsight might have been expressed in a more appropriate manner. Maybe it is time for you to reflect on the motivation of this thread. If it really is about discussing how others see us, why not use material which the writers do not object to.

Francisco.

 

[Pure]

Hi Francisco,

I've reduced the amount and percentage of quoted material at the start of the thread. If I receive direction from Laurel, I'll comply with the number she sets, e.g., if it's 10%.

If you've even been to Story Discussion group, you know it sometimes uses just url's, and sometime complete reproductions. The latter can be easier. What I'm getting at, is, *assuming Laurel utterly ruled against me* is that I'd simply post the url's. The discussion would continue.

One wrinkle you might consider is that the reproduction is at a literotica forum; i.e., within the organization to whom P has licensed the reproduction of her work. The work hasn't been hived off elsewhere for others to steal; indeed, its form in this thread is not useable (salable); or far less so than the orginals anyone can download at the click of a button.

You say,
What I simply can not understand is how someone, whom I under normal circumstances respect, can go against the wishes of a writer and publish and discuss a story which the writer does not want to be discussed in BDSM talk. Personal feelings aside between yourself and any other person, to me it is a mystery what you are doing. [...]

To start a thread discussing her work against her wishes can only mean one thing, it is an attempt to start a flame war. IMHO this is my (and I know of others who have the same) perception of this thread.

That is the key point, whether it's immoral, vastly rude, or even against rules to discuss the work of someone who doesn't want it discussed. I say, none of the above. It's free speech to discuss the work of whomever I please, and that would include smaller quotations within the discussion.

Essentially the quotes above say, my motivation is a mystery, and that it's to start a flame war. The gist of your piece is that genuine criticism, or research are not occurring. Well, if you read the criticisms, I think they're OK, esp. by Literotica standards. That the writer and pals and you want to drown out the substance, in flames, hasn't meant that no critique occurred. That you and she pretend to know motives is likely irrelevant, if real critique occurs.

So Perd's objective of controlling or suppressing discussion can't work. Nor can any author's. It comes with the territory. Nor, I might add, can she control discussion initiated by a person she dislikes; it's irrelevant.

To your last statement.the only thing that you are accomplishing is you are damaging your reputation, a reputation you have built by being honest, open and impartial.

My, my. Thanks compadre. If you hadn't been here pissing on me for missing tildes, and comparing me to a toilet; had the woman you're defending from literary critique, not called me shit and posted insults for the past months; and both of you suggesting your opinions are nearly universal, I'd be very worried about 'loss.'

You see my friend, the obvious expressions of animosity and slinging of mud give you a definite lack of 'leverage': and put you all in an odd category in my mind; normal reciprocation of kindness and consideration is out the window with those continually expressing hate, i.e., normal human social relations.

It's sorta like that crazy lady up the street who, when I walk by, spits orange seeds at me and yells, "Get off my sidewalk, devil." I try to stay polite, and definitely keep within the bounds of the law, but nothing more. I use 'her' sidewalk.

Best,
J.

PS. I'm glad you agree that 'a Dios' is grammatical, and I accept full responsibility for the missing cap. And elsewhere for the missing tilde, and the extra 'la'. Btw, as a kind of 'golden rule' exercise, have you seen me devote much space to your minor errors of English? Again, calls for normal human courtesies and reciprocation might begin with corroborating actions, including, dare I say, apologies.

 

[InnerDarkness]

*yawn*

why is this "discussion" still going on?

sheesh!

 

[Pure]

I agree, inner; hadn't expected a tilde chastisement and then a lay-legal go round.

BUT several substantive criticisms and replies have been posted (none by you, iirc ); address them or the work if you are actually interested in substance. As they say, 'better to light a candle than curse the darkness.'

J.

*yawn*

why is this "discussion" still going on?

sheesh!

 

[InnerDarkness]

I agree, inner; hadn't expected a tilde chastisement and then a lay-legal go round.

BUT several substantive criticisms and replies have been posted (none by you, iirc ); address them or the work if you are actually interested in substance. As they say, 'better to light a candle than curse the darkness.'

J.

*yawn*

why is this "discussion" still going on?

sheesh!

I have chosen NOT to address the thread or offer any critique, because honestly I don't really care.

What each person chooses to write about, and whether they are part of that lifestyle and can do it justice or not, doesn't really matter to me. All I ever look for is good writing. Period. If it doesn't get me off, I skip it and look for something that does. If I feel they are "off the mark", I skip it and look for something I find more realistic.

I don't know the history between you and the authors who wandered over here to post, but it seems kind of silly to keep dredging through this. (That goes for my own post, too *wink*)

 

[catalina_francisco]

PS. I'm glad you agree that 'a Dios' is grammatical, and I accept full responsibility for the missing cap. And for the missing tilde, and the extra 'la'. Btw, as a kind of 'golden rule' exercise, have you seen me devote much space to your minor errors of English? Again, calls for normal human courtesies and reciprocation might begin with corroborating actions, including, dare I say, apologies.

Like I said before Pure I overreacted, and this had nothing to do with the thread but with the fact that I have seen many, many Mexican/ Spanish /Latin jokes made by Americans. One of the key elements in these jokes is almost always the improper usage of Spanish ridiculing a culture which is part of my heritage. To me the usage of Spanish by you seemed to be ridiculing the Spanish heritage and culture.

Posting a URL would have been perfectly fine, and would not have been a copyright infringement. However I do still disagree with your motivation about why you chose that specific story, and the other authors you referred to as being the following examples you intend to use. The mutual animosity between you is very clear from the communication on this thread.

If this was about free speech I would be standing next to you upon the barricades, but if this is about free speech and the right to express sincere and honest, open critique, why choose the story of one of your nemesis. Things would have been different if you would have chosen different writers. By your own admission, you did not seek permission from the authors to use their material as you knew they would not grant it. Of course I can not look into your head and read your mind, but your choice of writers does not strengthen your case, it weakens it considerable.

I am a big believer of free speech, but I also believe that free speech does not mean it is without responsibility. Exercising your right to free speech doesn't mean using it irresponsibly, not oppressing or disrespecting another's rights....freedom is not without responsibility. Words can be used as bullets and words can be used as healing potions, the pen is mightier than the sword, since it can not only kill but also cure. In this specific case, to me and speaking only for me here, it seems as if freedom of speech is used as a smokescreen to hide underlying motivation.

I am not trying to pick a fight with you, I am exercising my freedom of speech which is also my right. The discussion in this thread has become very heated, and yes at times very impolite from both sides. There are many ways to call someone shit and some of those can be by using very proper and polite language, however it does not mean that there is a difference in the insult, just in the language used....just as there was IMO an intended purpose for the thread other than the one stated.

Still you have not answered my question, if this is about how others see us, why do you use Perdita’s material? There are many out there which you have not had a bad history with; there are many out there who would have enjoyed getting feedback from us (meaning readers and posters of BDSM Talk & Café). Would you have chosen one of those writers, this thread could have become a substantial contribution in creating mutual understanding with ‘vanillas’. This thread could still become a means to that end, it still could become a thread where writers who want to know more about BDSM can come and learn how their stories are perceived by their readers.

Francisco.

 

[Pure]

Hi Francisco,

Discussions are underway soon to introduce a new story for discussion.

Somehow I think it will make little difference: as you can see above, the last few days, a certain group want to use to thread to air old grudges and take a crap. With a couple exceptions, the visits here are to 'denounce evil.' Indeed, I predict the grudge postings will continue, and there will be efforts to persuade the pups and those easily swayed, NEVER to allow a story to be posted here.

You say,
//This thread could still become a means to that end, it still could become a thread where writers who want to know more about BDSM can come and learn how their stories are perceived by their readers. //

I shall take this at face value for now (from you); let's see if the craps stop and anything positive is contributed.

Adios,

J.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Gimme the microphone!

ahem DOWN WITH EVIL. THERES A LOT OF EVIL HERE, AND IM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR IT ANY LONGER.

*feeeedback squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel*

AND FURTHERMORE, ELECT ME ON MY 12 POINT PLAN TO END SEXUAL FRUSTRATION AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE WITH GOVERNMENT REALDOLL CLINICS.

PURE IS EVIL HE MUST BE STOPPED

GUARDS TAKE HIM AWAY

that is all

 

[bridgeburner]

Francisco,


Whose rights have been abused? Every person who submits a story to Literotica does so with the full knowledge that if they open their story to voting people they've never met may give them 1's. Even if not open to voting any person who comes by Literotica and reads that story may send the author an anonymous email critique. Anyone who comes by, not just registered members. Not just people we know. Anybody in the entire world who has internet access.

On the boards I've seen whole threads started and devoted to nothing but trashing a single story or author. I've seen excerpts posted and quoted and picked apart without anyone ever even notifying the author, much less gaining consent.

Pure didn't do anything out of bounds no matter what one believes his motives might have been. He didn't break the rules, he didn't break the law and he's been nothing but respectful of the actual piece of writing being discussed.

In contrast he's been called a liar, a criminal and a racist.

I'm not impressed.

-B

 

[Guest]

... as you can see above, the last few days, a certain group want to use to thread to air old grudges and take a crap. With a couple exceptions, the visits here are to 'denounce evil.' Indeed, I predict the grudge postings will continue, and there will be efforts to persuade the pups and those easily swayed, NEVER to allow a story to be posted here.

... let's see if the craps stop and anything positive is contributed.

Pure, the only reason I crap on you is when you desire it personally, from me, and I lose sight of that. I do not think you evil, what I do think you already know. As for me and 'my' pups, if you leave us out of this we won't return (only my prediction, I really can only speak for myself). I apologize to you and anyone else I might have offended with my pettyness, and hope to never be disturbed by you again, God willing.

Francisco's comment about a - "substantial contribution in creating mutual understanding with ‘vanillas’" and that this "thread could still become a means to that end, it still could become a thread where writers who want to know more about BDSM can come and learn how their stories are perceived by their readers." is certainly worthwhile. May I suggest that you start a new thread when you find willing participants, that way all the above will not mar the good intents.

que te vaya bien, Perdita
----------

Francisco,
I do feel badly that you spent such time in the legal reviews, and the rest of this issue, but I am grateful to have made your and Catalina's acquaintance.

con mucho cariño, Perdita

 

[catalina_francisco]

Pure didn't do anything out of bounds no matter what one believes his motives might have been. He didn't break the rules, he didn't break the law and he's been nothing but respectful of the actual piece of writing being discussed.

In contrast he's been called a liar, a criminal and a racist.

I'm not impressed.

-B

BB I am sorry but I have to disagree with you, Pure has broken the forum rules, see guideline nr 3. He has broken the copyright law; see explanation in the posts above.

About the Spanish well I have given him the benefit of the doubt, interesting though is to see that I have never seen Pure use Spanish before on the board except now when trying to ridicule a Latin person. Is this racist? Not words I recall using, but some might think it is, and the word ‘racist’ obviously entered your mind for you to use it.

There is a whole forum dedicated on giving feedback to writers, the Story Feedback forum. Next to that there is the voting system where a reader can vote on a story and indeed give it a 1 if that is what they think about that story. There is the Author's Hangout where a reader can ask a writer a question, and there is the feedback option.

I think there are a ton of possibilities to give feedback to a writer without having to break forum guidelines, breaking the law, or without opening a thread to attack a person. The point being, these above are all options the writer has to nominate for use if they wish, not meant for others to abuse in the absence of the author’s specification. If the discussions you have mentioned are on other forums, I do not see it as necessary to bring it here as many posters here have voiced their pleasure at finding this forum as more respectful.

Francisco.

 

[Pure]

Dear F,

I thought there might be a good will resolution, rather than a legalistic one. Pity.

You say,
Pure has broken the forum rules, see guideline nr 3. He has broken the copyright law; see explanation in the posts above.

By nr 3, do you mean this rule I've quoted, below?

Forum Rules

3. Do not post copyrighted images or articles in their entirety. Fair use laws allow some posting of copyrighted material, such as excerpts from articles and screen captures from movies, under certain circumstances. Please do a Google search under "Fair Use" if you want to understand this issue better.

I don't see a breach. More importantly, neither did your wife, Catalina, the moderator, when last I heard from her. And you are not the moderator, but the Dom of one .

It's possible, imo, that 3., in spirit, is intended to suggest that breaching a copyright law will breach rule 3. But we have no expert opinion as to breach of copyright law.

If Laurel says go to 10% quoting, I will.

I have never seen Pure use Spanish before on the board except now when trying to ridicule a Latin person.

yeah. in the present case, the 'ridicule' of a Latin person consisted of pointing to her saying 'goodbye' (adios) and 'I'm leaving' then popping up again the next day and after, and after.

as you wish, compadre, let the tomato tossing continue!**

J.

**till momma Laurel finally settles things the children are
unable to.

 

[bridgeburner]

Francisco,

If you post your work on a public forum where comment is not only welcomed but encouraged it is not an infringement of your copyright for people to then quote that work and comment on it at that forum.

Suffering the comments of those we dislike is the price we pay for publishing in this forum.

The word racist entered my mind when reading your post regarding the assumption that Pure was ridiculing Spanish heritage and culture. I'm sorry that you've suffered such in your life that you have developed such a sensitivity, but knowing Pure as you do you have to be well aware that he's not a racist. Additionally, you said it to backpedal on your apology to him. "Sorry I got on your case about your grammar but I really did it because I thought you were being a racist."

I call bullshit on that. You're plenty man enough to apologize without mitigating it with some crap you don't believe about Pure being a racist. Or to decide that you don't owe him an apology. If you don't feel like offering a sincere apology then you shouldn't do it.

I think there are a ton of possibilities to give feedback to a writer without having to break forum guidelines, breaking the law, or without opening a thread to attack a person.

The thread wasn't started to give feedback to a specific author. It was started to explore BDSM concepts as put forth by non-BDSM writers. As I've pointed out it neither broke forum guidlines nor the law and I doubt that a single word against Perdita personally would have been uttered if not for the brouhaha over whether or not Pure had a right to even comment on a story that's publicly posted.

The long and the short of it is that Perdita doesn't like Pure and she was irritated that he chose to use her story to explore his thread concept. I can understand and sympathize with that, but it doesn't mean that Pure has broken the rules or that he can't continue to talk about whatever piece of Lit writing he likes in this forum.

I'm sure Americandemon didn't like it when MlleLeBleuPen started a thread to rant about what a shitty writer he is and how he's a domestic violence report waiting to happen. Tough for him. He put it out there and she had a right to say what she liked.

If the discussions you have mentioned are on other forums,

They're not. They're all right here at Literotica.


And that's the last I'll say on this particular off-topic business.


-B

 

[catalina_francisco]

Pure, find a new tune, you are repeating yourself. Why don’t you start by answering the questions I have put to you, instead of once again taking out of context the words of my partner and wife in an attempt to imply as a moderator, she has OK’ed your actions.

By now you are aware of the rules and forum guidelines you are breaking, and you are still maintaining your game. I for one wish I had never entered this discussion, I was living under the impression if I could show to Pure how and what he was doing wrong he would actually correct the thread. I made the mistake of judging the words of a man, and not his actions.

BB
I will say one more thing about this topic and be done with it. I was more than happy to leave this where it was, however you BB brought the subject back up. I did not offer an apology to Pure because I do not think he deserves one, nor do I think I did anything that needs to be apologized for. What I said was that I overreacted which is not an apology, I am sorry if that has confused you.

If you take the time to read through my explanation of copyright rules and take the time to read the American copyright website I am sure you will find out where and how the copyright law has been broken.

The weirdest thing I find about your whole post is what you seem to bring up as a defence to the thread which is supposed to be a sincere discussion.

I'm sure Americandemon didn't like it when MlleLeBleuPen started a thread to rant about what a shitty writer he is and how he's a domestic violence report waiting to happen. Tough for him. He put it out there and she had a right to say what she liked.

I for one do not believe that just because this has happened before it is a justification for doing it again. Murder, theft and rape happen almost everyday that does not mean it is justified or that we should let it happen. Not that I am comparing those criminal acts to this thread. My mother used to say to me, if the next door kid jumps of a bridge are you going to jump of a bridge too.

For example would I be of the same kind of material that Pure is, which thank god I am not, I could start a thread about Pure’s insults to others looking through his 3000 + posts for flaws, mistakes and contradictions. It would be completely in my freedom and I would be protected by the same rules Pure is using. I for one will not lower myself to that level.

Francisco.

 

[Quint]

There's a difference between justifying an action and having the right to an action. You don't have the legal right to rape somebody. A morally questionable act is not the same as an illegal act, and I get the feeling the legality of this thread has not been proven to all parties' satisfaction. So the comparison does not apply.

On a different note, I'd like to see this thread go in other directions. How about we take a story from someone who IS "one of us" and see how accurate of a representation it is?

 

[sunfox]

Apparently, my weekend away did nothing to add to the content of this thread.

Yes, this is me adding nothing to the content and making matters worse. If you don't like it.. I suppose you could spank me!

 

[Etoile]

Apparently, my weekend away did nothing to add to the content of this thread.

Yes, this is me adding nothing to the content and making matters worse. If you don't like it.. I suppose you could spank me!

I was considering bringing spongmonkeys into the mix, but I decided against it.

 

[lark sparrow]

On a different note, I'd like to see this thread go in other directions. How about we take a story from someone who IS "one of us" and see how accurate of a representation it is?

Perhaps Pure can begin with a story he has written.

 

[Netzach]

Where's my realdoll?

Fuckin' A!

This thread is still smokin'?

 

[tenacious_rebel]

On a different note, I'd like to see this thread go in other directions. How about we take a story from someone who IS "one of us" and see how accurate of a representation it is?

Now here's an idea, but then I wonder just who is going to 'judge' it's accuracy, and based on what knowledge and depth of real experience? Is it going to be become another 'my way is better than your way' discussion I have seen so often while browsing the threads, or is it going to be openly accepting of the differences in each individual's ways, not to mention remembering we are supposedly talking about a fictional piece of work and not a factual account of someone's life? Sounds more to me like another opportunity to put down someone. And then we come to the initial objection to the thread by many, which if I read correctly, is the use of writing by other's who have not only not been asked permission for their work to be used, but who have expressed they do not wish it to be used. Are you suggesting we repeat this behaviour in the interests of improving the discussion? I can see that working, can't you? I see much of the motivation behind the thread as based on animosity which has nothing to do with writing ability, or realtime experience of BDSM, and this suggestion has just highlighted it even more.

 

[Quint]

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt there. Very noble of you.

If I spoke up against a smooshy romantic "my master cherishes me so much and tends to his precious subslutslave like a rose," there would still be the people who would disagree with me and support said relationship. Likewise when we dissect a violent, barely-consensual scene and many express disgust at what turns lots other people on. That's what's fun--we AREN'T all the same. My suggestion came because in any good experiment, you should have a control group (no pun intended). Compare an insider's perspective with an outsider. See the differences. See the individual merits. Viewing one side gives only limited results, so I thought it would be more fair to take a cross-slice and see what we find.

Does that sound a little less inflammatory? I do so hope it does. I'd hate to piss anybody off, just HATE to.

And incidentally, I would not myself post a story directly against someone's wishes, legal or not. But that's my posting.