I love my Country

[oggbashan]

Yesterday the French celebrated the liberation of Paris in 1944.

They celebrated their own liberation because it was the resistance that took Paris from the Germans but they knew (and know) that they couldn't have done it without the US forces advancing on Paris.

The US and other allied forces let the French have the honour of liberating their capital and restoring their own pride, lost in the debacle of 1940.

The US deserves thanks for the liberation of Europe (and SE Asia) in WWII.

What the US's friends wish is that they could be as tactful and diplomatic now as they were in 1944.

Og

 

[cantdog]

You've hardly been silent, Colleen, and you're putting a lot of words in our mouths. "Unpopular view here," "ripping the US"-- please realize that there would hardly be any point to opposition parties if they had given up on the country. Criticism does not equal bashing the country.

So I can't congratulate you. Your perceived problem is not really an issue. Nobody's made you swallow any crap.

I'm not a nationalist myself; I stand more or less with patrick1 on that subject, and Perdita, insofar as I can glean her attitude from so brief a post. But if I didn't want good things for America I certainly wouldn't bother with politics.

 

[Guest]

OMG!!! I saw perdita's new AV and passed out!!! Lemme get up off the floor.

Child! What's that about? Do you know the pic's Anna Magnani?

concerned, Mum


p.s. to Cant: yep, you got me right.

p.p.s. I should also have said I love Russia, though as with Yorkshire, I've never been there; I feel I know her through her arts, history, and a few of her people.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

I would not feel so passionately about politics and about changing what I believe to be morally wrong with our government and policies if I did not love our country.

The Gosling just summed it up very well for me. I love my country and our flag. There is a flag flying on the front of my house 365 days a year, (yes, it's spotlighted).

I was in Boy Scouts for years, I was even a scout master, and I think this instilled me with alot of pride in my country. Also I work with Union construction workers which is a very Patriotic crowd. Also many of them are Vets.

It's the current administration that I have my issues with because I feel they are destroying our country and our standing in the eyes of the rest of the world. As she said, if I didn't love my country, why would I care?

 

[Lisa Denton]

Child! What's that about? Do you know the pic's Anna Magnani?

concerned, Mum


p.s. to Cant: yep, you got me right.

p.p.s. I should also have said I love Russia, though as with Yorkshire, I've never been there; I feel I know her through her arts, history, and a few of her people.

Concerned Mum, I didn't know who was in the AV but it looks like somebody really pissed off and screamin about something, it scared the hell outta me.

 

[Teenage Venus]

Stay up on that sop box. Tell everyone the same thing I do when they start bashing The United States of America. "If you don't like it, get the fuck out."

I get especially pissed of when I hear Foriegners LIVING in this country complaining about things. "Go home."

One of my neighbors is Columbian. A couple months ago I listened to him spewing a tirade because the cable company didn't have more Colmbian TV channels. "Well, tough shit. How many American channels do they show in Columbia? Maybe if you watched more American TV you could at least learn to speak our language, which would be very considerate of you. Especially since I get really angry when I walk into the local convenience store to get a pack of smokes and have to practically point them out to the bastard behind the counter because he can't understand a sigle word of, "I need a pack of Benson & Hedges menthol."

Personally, if I were "dictator" of this country all foreign aid would stop. They don't appreciate it. And evertime we help someone out we end up the bad guy. Well, fuck 'em. Let 'em starve. Let the crackpot dictators have their with them. "Someone's invading your country? Gee, I'm real sorry about that. Have a nice day."

The aftermath of 9/11 would have ben different under my administration as well. Within 5 minutes of the second tower falling I would have been on the phone to every leader of countries known to harbor terrorists and I would have given them simple instructions. "It will take the B-52's that just launched approximately 12 hours to reach you country. You have until then to start turning over terrorists or the bombs will fall like rain."

So you want to bash the US? Fine. do it in another country. Because I don't want to hear it in mine.

[/rant]

I'm so glad you put 'rant' at the bottom - that pretty-well sums it up.

For starters: Virtually all 'foreign aid' is given with ulteria motives.

"Someone invading your country..." - It's usually us - either directly or via CIA. Check how many Dictators we have either put in power or deposed - or both - for benefit of big business and the almighty dollar. You REALLY think we invaded Iraq out of any altruist thoughts? OIL - and another base was the reason.

As for B52's - that's the typical thinking of the very persons the rest of the world have learned to hate.

Love your country by all means (and I too love the UK Yorkshire moors), but don't love it through bloodstained rose-colored glasses.

I thrill to the national anthem, and the raising of the stars and stripes. I do NOT let the feeling blind me though. I think of the suffering we have caused - and are causing others - because we do not understand them. We think we, and our way of life is the best, and seek to impose it on others to our own advantage.

I feel proud - and very sad and ashamed - that we are in a position to REALLY help suffering humanity, but greed gets in the way.

We choose to help one African country because the financial rewards are worth it. We ignore others because they have little to offer. And what little they have, we ban import of to protect our own markets.

I'm not saying that the USA is worse than any other country in these practices, however, that does not excuse us.

Next time you tie your Nikes, or other designer clothing, think of the near starving kids working in sweatshops 16 hrs a day 7 days a week for a pittance to keep you happy.

Next time you sit down to a meal, think that what you waste is about what umpteen millions will have to survive on for several days.

Next time you think of all the B52's and their bombs stored in 'mothballs' - and the cost - then think of the good that money could do elsewhere.

Here's a fact: If all USA military aircraft were grounded for 24 hours, the saving in fuel alone would equate to the total of monies spent by the Government on Cancer research in the last 15 years!

Have you thought that instead of the cost of using B52's, other aircraft and weapons, and cruise missiles to 'liberate' Iraq, we could have used it to raise the standard of living in Iraq ten-fold, had their respect and re-gained a little self respect in the eyes of the world? And think of the USA families that would have been saved grief and attending premature funerals of loved ones - and continue to do so?

Yes we are a great country. Let's all get on our soapboxes and proclaim it to the world - but let us do so from unblinkered eyes, and each do our share to try UNDERSTAND other races, give them help without strings attached, open our minds and hearts to others. Let's FORGET the B52's mentality. Let's mourn for the 'twin towers' - but search out and rectify the cause of WHY people will commit suicide, just to hurt us.

 

[Lisa Denton]

Yesterday the French celebrated the liberation of Paris in 1944.

They celebrated their own liberation because it was the resistance that took Paris from the Germans but they knew (and know) that they couldn't have done it without the US forces advancing on Paris.

The US and other allied forces let the French have the honour of liberating their capital and restoring their own pride, lost in the debacle of 1940.

The US deserves thanks for the liberation of Europe (and SE Asia) in WWII.

What the US's friends wish is that they could be as tactful and diplomatic now as they were in 1944.

Og

Og, you know I love ya and the hat makes me wet everytime I see it. I totally agree with your post.
I am glad the french celebrated their own liberation. I do hope somewhere during the party they took a flower to that one americans grave over there, or maybe I'm wrong, I guess there could be more than one american grave.
Anywho, I don't really like all the anti-french sentiment, they should have opposed the Iraq invasion with the rest of the UN as they did, it was the way they did it that makes me agree with "The frence, always there when they need you."
The only thing wrong with your post was that it was you who said it instead of them.
Bye Og, watch out for spiders.

 

[Guest]

Concerned Mum, I didn't know who was in the AV but it looks like somebody really pissed off and screamin about something, it scared the hell outta me.

You poor dear. Anna Magnani was a force of nature and one of the greatest film actresses of all time. She's having a laugh and loves life in that pic, sorry you read it wrong. I love the photo. If you're interested, see "The Rose Tattoo" (made about a century before you were born). M.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

As previously stated, claiming to hate an entire country (any country, but especially one the size of the United States) is the result either of a gross oversimplification, or of mental disturbance.

Of course, Americans who claim to hate an entire country (even one as relatively small as Iraq) also signal poor communications or mental illness.

Over the full two hundred and twenty-eight years, the United States of America has been an example, an inspiration, and an aid to the spread of freedom around the globe.

It has, however, of recent years (especially) been the prop of a vast array of petty dictatorships, for no other reason than that condition makes the region in question easier to deal with economically. This investment in repression has been bearing dividends for many years, but never with such high interest as these last few years.

American foreign policy has alienated countless millions in second and third world countries. During the run up to the Invasion of Iraq, the Bush Administration squandered years of accumulated good will with America’s traditional allies, by ignoring all words of caution, overriding all organizations and instruments which were urging discretion.

Amongst the other debts inflicted, the Bush Administration has squandered an immense quantity of good will for America, good will that more than two centuries of history had accrued.

When I hear people abroad saying they hate America, I understand that they mean to say American Foreign Policy and/or the Bush Administration and their thoughtless aggression.

I do, however, fear that this could change from hatred for a policy or an administration, to become hatred for a population. This is one result that I can foresee were it to appear that the American people, as a nation, have given their approval to the Bush Administration, and all of its oppressive policies.

 

[Guest]

Over the full two hundred and twenty-eight years, the United States of America has been an example, an inspiration, and an aid to the spread of freedom around the globe.

Burly, I cannot leave this without a comment. I think native Americans (including those from the former northern Mexico) would disagree with your statement. I do.

Perdita

 

[Lisa Denton]

You've hardly been silent, Colleen, and you're putting a lot of words in our mouths. "Unpopular view here," "ripping the US"-- please realize that there would hardly be any point to opposition parties if they had given up on the country. Criticism does not equal bashing the country.

So I can't congratulate you. Your perceived problem is not really an issue. Nobody's made you swallow any crap.

I'm not a nationalist myself; I stand more or less with patrick1 on that subject, and Perdita, insofar as I can glean her attitude from so brief a post. But if I didn't want good things for America I certainly wouldn't bother with politics.

Cantdog, I wouldn't defend Colly, she would probably get mad if I did and can take care of herself.
But I do hope you understand, cause I respect the hell outta you and everything you stand for and do. Your posts with me have always been nice, and intelligent, though you speak your mind, which is good.
Anywho, while I can't speak for Colly I hope you understand that one of the reasons I love my country is because people can criticise and protest and make changes, which we really need right now, BECAUSE they love the country.
I just wanted you to know my love for my country doesn't mean hostility or indifference to those who want change, I love my country and want to change it and make it better with you.

Regardless of what happened back during the vietnam war, and I don't want to debate it. I think Kerry is a brave man for being willing to inherit the Iraqi fustercluck. It will continue to be a fustercluck because whatever he does will not end well. Since the outcome of what he does not do will not be known, there will always be those who will say he should have done this or that.

As for dear President Bush, if I believed him and gave him every benifit of doubt. That his advisors and experts and administration decieved him and lied to him, those he either put in those positions or had the ability to replace them in those positions, then hasn't enough intelligence (pun) to lead this great country.

America can change, and it will be those who love it who will make those changes.

I might be able to speculate, since thats the way I took it, that Colly's original post meant the same thing. I too am not pissed, but a little miffed, that people say this country sucks, instead of, we can make this great country better, and need to do it now.

Oh well, thats just my opinion. Rant-Rant.

 

[Vincent E]

I've been silent for as long as I am going to. I love my country, I love our flag. When our athelets win I feel pride in thier accomplishments, and I still get goose flesh when our national anthem is played.

I am sick of people ripping the Us. I am especially sick of americans ripping the Us. I have swallowed this crap until the anger inside me is so acute I can't sleep.

I'm not ignorant, nor am I a my country right or wrong brand of patriot. I am simply me and sick to death of the way people here lay into us. It's not the popular view here and it is sure to draw fire, but I will be more comfortable drawing that fire than feeling like a shit for not stepping up to the plate and defending my country.

I love this country. I love our flag. I am proud of all the good we have accomplished in the world, and that good is significant.

I'll get off my soap box now and let the flames start.


-Colly

Relax Colleen, I've got your back.

And I'm armed to the teeth, so bring it on sucka.

 

[Teenage Venus]

Relax Colleen, I've got your back. And I'm armed to the teeth, so bring it on sucka.

The first part of the comment is something to be proud of - - Sadly, the second remark clearly illustrates the very attitude which gives cause for so many to dislike us.

 

[OldnotDead]

I'm so glad you put 'rant' at the bottom - that pretty-well sums it up.
. . .

Here's a fact: If all USA military aircraft were grounded for 24 hours, the saving in fuel alone would equate to the total of monies spent by the Government on Cancer research in the last 15 years!

. . .

could you cite the source of this 'fact'?

According to the National Institutes of Health's National Cancer Institute the 2004 FY budget was 4.9 Billion. They requested (but will not get) 6+ Billion for FY 2005. I could not get the numbers going back 15 years, but assuming it's trebled, which is unlikely, the total would be in the range of 22.5 Billion. If it's only doubled it would be 37.5 Billion.

So your 'fact' is stating that Naval, Marine, Air Force and Coast Guard aviation operations consume somewhere between 22.5 and 37.5 Billion dollars worth of fuel per day. To put that in Gallonage, we're talking about over 10 Billion Gallons of fuel per day, Possibly as many as 15 Billion Gallons. Since Department of Energy numbers are in barrells, the lower number converts to 181 Million Barrells of Jet Fuel per day, or 181,000 Thousand Barrells per day.

The total output of all refining capacity in the US is approximately 1,600 Thousand Barrells of Jet Fuel per day, or less than one tenth of what you are saying the DoD uses.

Put another way. The entire budget of the US Military INCLUDING the War in Iraq for FY 2004 is estimated to come in around 465 Billion Dollars. If the Military were spending 22.5 Billion per day on aviation fuel, that number alone would 8.2 TRILLION dollars or 75% of the entire US GDP. The portion of GDP that is non-durable goods is only 2.2 Trillion which includes automobile gasoline a much bigger factor in total oil consumption than Jet A.

The DoD budget is very complex and to get to the actual consumption of Jet A would be difficult to do very quickly as it crosses every service line. I have one breakdown that includes operation and maintenance that includes all fuel, and it is only 117 Billion, or around 320 million per day. It would surprise me if Jet A consumption were 10% of that number, but I really do not know. But I think you can see from the numbers I have been able to find that your 'fact' seems somewhat overstated.

I do not think that grounding the planes for a day would produce the kinds of numbers you think.

As a pilot, I would suggest that our relatively small investment in Jet A is worth the maintenance of the sharpness of our aviators' skills.

[for our Non US readers, US Government figures do not use English Billions, One Million Million, which is a US Trillion. US Billions are 1,000 Million ]

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... I think native Americans (including those from the former northern Mexico) would disagree with your statement...

Perdita,


Surely any claim to “goodness” or “fairness” can only be assessed relativistically.

What countries do you like better, that was on the scene at the time and in contention, which would have readily and/or even eventually, granted more potential liberty to the indigenous population.

I am not particularly arguing with you. You obviously have more of the historical facts at your fingertips.

I am merely wondering if there was some power, capable of maintaining control, that would have done better.

Or, is your objection more against the devil that you know?

For example, the British military (Brock, during the War of 1812) promised Native Americans their own lands if the helped British interests. (I believe Michigan was under consideration, at one time.) But when peace was negotiated, in spite of the valuable assistance that Native American provided the British, their claims were quite easily forgotten.

If not to form Texas and California as American territories, who besides the Spanish or French would have held Northern Mexico, and would their governments been superior to America's?

Again, I am not arguing, but honestly requesting information. That is a part of our history of which I am particularly ignorant.

 

[CrazyyAngel]

I've been silent for as long as I am going to. I love my country, I love our flag. When our athelets win I feel pride in thier accomplishments, and I still get goose flesh when our national anthem is played.

I am sick of people ripping the Us. I am especially sick of americans ripping the Us. I have swallowed this crap until the anger inside me is so acute I can't sleep.

I'm not ignorant, nor am I a my country right or wrong brand of patriot. I am simply me and sick to death of the way people here lay into us. It's not the popular view here and it is sure to draw fire, but I will be more comfortable drawing that fire than feeling like a shit for not stepping up to the plate and defending my country.

I love this country. I love our flag. I am proud of all the good we have accomplished in the world, and that good is significant.

I'll get off my soap box now and let the flames start.


-Colly

Nobody dislikes the US because of your athletes. So declaring you are proud of your country, athletes and your national anthem isn't the right counterargument for those people who "rip the US".

And even someone who loves his country can certainly see why people tend to dislike your country. Its been said before in this thread ... its your foreign policy and that "we do only good in the world" attitude which gets people agitated.

The day America gets beyond this kind of pride, arrogance and ignorance is the day the number of people who dislike the US will get fewer.

CA

 

[Guest]

Over the full two hundred and twenty-eight years, the United States of America has been an example, an inspiration, and an aid to the spread of freedom around the globe.
...
Perdita, Surely any claim to “goodness” or “fairness” can only be assessed relativistically...
What countries do you like better, that was on the scene at the time and in contention, which would have readily and/or even eventually, granted more potential liberty to the indigenous population. ...

Burly, I don't know why you are asking your questions, at least with regard to my response to your first post. I think if a native amer. or Mexican read your first sentence above they could only go, "Huh?" I was not implying that another country might have treated the natives better, merely trying to show how the USA has not been "an example, an inspiration, and an aid to the spread of freedom around the globe" for a full 228 years. "Our" birth is based on utter violence toward the native population. I'm not arguing either (thank goodness).

Re. Mexican history, even by the time of the Calif/Texas 'annexations' people still thought of Spain as the government in charge, but by then the makeup of Mexicans had been long formed (from the rape and other assimilation measures of the Indios by the Spanish and French mostly). The Spanish even had a class disdain for full-blooded Spaniards who happened to be born in Mexico; the class status went downhill from there. However, any person with Indian blood was at the very bottom of regard and recognition. I note all that because too many people think Spain just came to Mexico and set up shop. No one thinks about how long and what it takes to assimilate and transform a culture. (Mexico once had an Austrian emporer, Maximilian; I still cannot believe anyone in Europe thought that was a good idea.)

Anyway, I'm not feeling very clear, so pardon me.

adios, Pedita

 

[Just-Legal]

Re: Re: I love my Country

And so you should...

The US is a force for good in the world. UK governments of whatever party will support (and have supported) the US as allies.

Some US citizens have no concept of how their country is seen from outside and that is dangerous for the US and the world. There is no way that everybody in the world wants to be US citizens or to live as they do. Other peoples have a right to criticise the US government for its actions outside its borders and to complain when they refuse to adopt or block international agreements such as that reached at Kyoto.

I love my country but do not agree with many of the actions of the current government. They were elected with a significant majority under the current electoral system. Even if the government changed there would be many things the alternative party (or parties) would do that I would not agree with but whichever government is in power most things they do are not controversial.

US citizens should be proud of their country but also they should be aware of its failings and particularly how it is seen outside the US. Otherwise tourists will continue to be startled by the hostile reception they get in some parts of the world. Some of it will be just because they are tourists but some of it will be because they are US representatives abroad.

Og

What he said.

 

[Couture]

I love myself, my family, and I love my country too. I don't love the olympic athletes. However, I do feel a sense of pride whenever they win. I even like them when they are poor winners and losers, at least they keep things lively.

This year the gold medal in poor sportsmanship goes to Russian gymnast Svetlana Khorkina. Congratulations Svetlana!

But, seriously, I'm a firm believer that a certain amount of nationalism is a good thing. However, blind nationalism is not so good. I'm sure once upon a time there was someone who said, "I'm tired of people ripping Germany. I'm especially sick of fellow germans ripping the nazis..."

I'm not by any means comparing the United States and Germany, I'm just saying Bush's misquided foreign policies are costing us international support. It's our duty as Americans to examine these policies critically determine if the losses in goodwill, American lives, Iraqi lives, and money, result in real benefit to our people and the people of the world.

 

[Guest]

Colly -

Though I have serious issues with the current administration I do love this country.

For me, patriotism is a feeling more than a public display.

It's the feeling of simmering anger I have when I see someone burning an American flag (even though I recognize their right to do so).

Or the pride I feel when my Air Force veteran dad shyly shows off his medals.

I've visited Arlington Cemetery many times (my father's parents are buried there). Can there be anything more powerful (and patriotically humbling) than laying a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns?

I respect the founding ideals of this country. I also respect what we have accomplished as a nation - a really young nation, in comparison to many.

BUT - as a people we Americans are far too complacent. We need to think more. We need to learn more. And we need to demand more from our government.

(just my two cents)

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Re: Re: I love my Country

Nobody dislikes the US because of your athletes. So declaring you are proud of your country, athletes and your national anthem isn't the right counterargument for those people who "rip the US".

And even someone who loves his country can certainly see why people tend to dislike your country. Its been said before in this thread ... its your foreign policy and that "we do only good in the world" attitude which gets people agitated.

The day America gets beyond this kind of pride, arrogance and ignorance is the day the number of people who dislike the US will get fewer.

CA

There are a lot of us in America who are and have long been fed up with the style of foreign policy that Bush represents.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I don't know, perhaps I have been one of the main instigators inviting the comment of outward patriotism. If so, sorry, didn't mean to come out that way.

Here's my position and its nuanced.

First of all, I love my country, its ideals, and what it could be if we actually fucking worked at it and didn't keep surrendering it to morons and schemers (of both liberal and conservative persuasion). I cheer for my flag at the games and that it stands for our accomplishment as PEOPLE and not our accomplishment as the ruling world order.

Secondly, I have a tartly cynical view of humanity in general. People are in majority and in group dynamics morons and are easily swayed by a charismatic leader or an agenda possessing the neccessary amount of ego balm and scapegoats (such as patriotism plus gaybashing=right wing moron crusade).

Third, while I may love my question, I do not love everyone and everything in it. There are a large amount of people, cultural landmarks, corporations, and the like that raise my ire as an American, who sell out America, presenting a bad face of America to the world, and otherwise trying to destroy my tiny romantic pride in my country in order to fuel some agenda or bottom-line or some mindless hate or crusade. So fuck those Americans as they call themselves.

Fourth, while I love my country, I refuse to blind myself to the rest of the world. There are better governmental systems in other countries. There are better monetary systems too. There are countries with a much better attitude to violence, sex, and all that jazz. There are countries that have better history. Furthermore, I refuse to hate other countries while I love my own. I love Greece and unlike many Americans I love France for liberating us from the British and letting us stand on our own as a country. I also refuse to view "infidel" cultures as unworthy of existence. Do I want to personally rip OBL's nuts off and shove em down his throat? Yes. Does that mean I also want to bomb the few secular nations in the region and war against all Muslim groups except for Al-Queda? Fuck no. Do I believe that such people that support that crap are morons and worthy of a bit of my derision when I get into one of those political nihilistic moments? Hell yeah.

Fifth, I have a distaste for morons. Furthermore, I have an extreme distaste for morons who vote. If you don't understand the issues or are voting based on hairstyle or what the political TV ads told you or follow anything that's ever said to you without double checking with an open mind, then you shouldn't vote and ruin the opinion of one who did all that (and there's more than enough of these people on both sides, moreso on the right this year and many years, but that's because the democrats have been trying to be the party of soccer moms and phds for a while now).

Sixth, as many liberals have stated: the right-wing junta has no right to posture themselves as being the sole party of patriotism and the mindless idiots who believe that to love one's country means voting republican, I have little respect for. In other words, while I am patriotic in the literal sense of the word, I have little use for the industry of patriotism, jingoism, and nationalism. I cheer for my flag but I refuse to see the pledge of alleigance fight as a patriotic debate. I want my country to win gold, but I refuse to support a war that is not defensive at its honest core of being. I love the feeling of calling myself an American, but I refuse to wave my flag in public as if that alone means SHIT. I am an American, a patriot, not a fuckwit "superpatriot" whose only love of America is a hatred for those different from his family.

Seventh, I believe that loving your country also means loving and respecting the country. That means having a quiet reverence for the nature in your area, protecting the creatures that live near you, loving the views, the natural formations, the history that occurred in the country, the various groups that once lived here, the mythologies that once thrived here as religions, and above all the diversity of climate, people, and everything else that makes this place such a melting pot. Not to mention loving the spirit of independence forged into the very culture. I love these things and I'm not confident that most "superpatriots" do.



Anyway, that's my position. I know it probably sounds like "liberal is covering up his anti-Americanism" or some other crap like that, but it's how I genuinely feel. I bitch a lot about trends and morons and those who seem to create a bad name for everyone else. I've gotten fucked for it before (I am of that glorious racial identification of white male, an identification that has forced me to forever try and overcompensate for the sins of my brethern). I love my country, it's all the humanity that lives in it that sometimes pisses me the hell off.

Again, I apologize if I have blurred that distinction as I know I have a multitude of times in the past. It was an honest error in my communication skills.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

That's one of the reasons I really like Johnny Depp. He wholeheartedly disagrees with a ton of things the US stands for and does... and instead of pissing me off by living under the blanket of American policy, he impresses me by living in France.

Good man.

 

[patrick1]

I'm interested that no-one has picked up on my passing remark about how people in the United States have a fetish for the flag. Why is this?

The US hasn't been a shining example for 228 years. What political leadership could be? (I am interested too that few people care to distinguish between the 'country' and its leaders) I feel its international actions from 1941 to 1948 or so were wonderful. They conquered Fascists and militaristic states, and financed and organised a peace in Japan and Germany that eventually turned those countries into social democratic, economically successful nations. We, the wntire world, all live more happily and peacefully as a result. People in the US understate these marvellous achievements, for me, and overstate other matters that I find hard to fathom.

p

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I'm interested that no-one has picked up on my passing remark about how people in the United States have a fetish for the flag. Why is this?

The US hasn't been a shining example for 228 years. What political leadership could be? (I am interested too that few people care to distinguish between the 'country' and its leaders) I feel its international actions from 1941 to 1948 or so were wonderful. They conquered Fascists and militaristic states, and financed and organised a peace in Japan and Germany that eventually turned those countries into social democratic, economically successful nations. We, the wntire world, all live more happily and peacefully as a result. People in the US understate these marvellous achievements, for me, and overstate other matters that I find hard to fathom.

p

<tiny voice> I differentiated between country and leaders....hell I differentiated between country and people</tiny voice>