I want to be shared.

[subwannabe]

When she says she has been fantasizing about other men for years I can't help but think there is a lot more dissatisfaction with the marriage going on here than just in the bedroom. Most women in a good marriage don't usually fantasize about other men "for years". In addition, you don't usually just wake up one morning in a good marriage where you aren't quite happy in bed and all of a sudden want to get fucked up the ass so badly you are ready to "get an apartment". I'm going to assume that by that she meant she is going to keep the marriage but use an apartment for extracurricular activities. I'm hoping I'm wrong on that and that she will be "man enough" to tell her husband she wants totally out of the marriage so she can get her needs met. Cheating is rarely the answer. If she wants out then she should get out.

 

[Ellafun]

I have been fantasizing about other men for years. After spending a few days here on these forums I also want to be shared. There are certain things that I want to try and he is not into them. I want to bring it up with my husband. How did you women go about it?

Hi, Elsa...welcome to Lit.

I have read the responses to your original post, and to your secondary post, and I still had the same question:

What makes you think that "us women" went about asking our spouses to let us be "shared?" You make it sound as if all of us who post here on Lit are involved in swinging or sharing type scenarios, when in fact a very large number of us are married, happily for the most part. I come to Lit to engage in conversation and possibly pick up some new ideas, not to plan a weekend getaway to fulfill my wildest fantasies. (Although, wouldn't that be fun...if I was single. But I'm NOT.)

The key to any marriage is communication, Elsa. Not threats, or hidden agendas. If you can't engage in a civil conversation with your husband, your sex partner, about what you need, then you need to start right there. Talk to him. And if he puts up a stone wall, consider counseling. It takes two to work in a relationship.

Good luck. And be careful.

 

[billrichards41]

Are you near NYC? Maybe I can satisfy your urges and give you some more time to think about next steps

 

[indyguy78]

Honestly do the guy a favor and divorce him if your going to move out or cheat on him because he is not into one sexual act. Quite a few things my wife isn't into that I am and I am not dumb enough to kill a marriage over it. It's harsh but sounds like a tantrum to me if you want to be with other men divorce him and do your thing.

As far as whether he deserves it or not isn't an issue especially if it's just a matter of not wanting to do anything anal. By this logic I don't get a blow job every time I want it I am in the green to cheat...

 

[theunknown2008]

Honestly do the guy a favor and divorce him if your going to move out or cheat on him because he is not into one sexual act. Quite a few things my wife isn't into that I am and I am not dumb enough to kill a marriage over it. It's harsh but sounds like a tantrum to me if you want to be with other men divorce him and do your thing.

As far as whether he deserves it or not isn't an issue especially if it's just a matter of not wanting to do anything anal. By this logic I don't get a blow job every time I want it I am in the green to cheat...

Being a cheater, I am not going to judge. That being said isnt this what lit is for? For people with secrets and interests looking to explore them with other like minded people?

 

[theunknown2008]

I have been fantasizing about other men for years. After spending a few days here on these forums I also want to be shared. There are certain things that I want to try and he is not into them. I want to bring it up with my husband. How did you women go about it?

Go for it honey. Cheating is exciting.

 

[indyguy78]

Go for it honey. Cheating is exciting.

I bet it wouldn't if it was done to you I have know people like you before it's all fun and games til your on the other end then it's funny. I also bet you've sent her PM's trying to hook up lol

 

[njlauren]

I might be wrong, but it seems to me you're putting a marriage to the level of a commercial transaction, or even a work contract. The fact that a marriage is a contract to the law doesn't mean you can be cold and professional about it. She might love him deeply, and yet she might still have urges as deeper as her love.

Sitting together and negotiating this has a lot of chances to get them crashed and burned. I don't know about you, but if somebody comes to me demanding that I do something I don't want or said person would leave, I'd say "leave and fuck yourself". First reaction to an ultimatum for a lot of people.

As I said there are many many greys. She needs to reach a compromise, find a solution that makes her happy and keeps her husband happy. If she doesn't sense he'd go for it, and she needs it, looking somewhere else in a discreet way might be her solution. It may not follow your moral precepts, or mine, but it doesn't have to. It's HER moral decision to make, it's her problem.

People giving advises so freely should remember that it's going to be HER the one frustrated, furious, extremely unhappy in bed when her hubby doesn't give her what she needs. Not you, not me.. her.

The woman asked for advice and people are giving it and I don't sense moral judgement, I see people telling her to be really careful about how she handles this situation. It is not a moral judgement to say to her that she is risking her marriage in doing this, because the reality is she is, pure and simple. The compromise she is planning, finding someone else to have sex with, is an emotional minefield to the marriage and this isn't about God, this isn't about morality, it is about reality.

First of all, despite what stories claim, cheating takes its emotional toll on the marriage, the person cheating often ends up distancing themselves from their mate that further exacerbates problems and tensions. The terms shrinks use is compartmentalization, and when you have a portion of your life compartmentalized from your loved one like this, it causes issues, and having experienced this (not with sex, with something else) it causes real issues.

More importantly, if hubby finds out, it isn't just the cheating, it the breaking of trust, the fact that she did something and hid it, that often causes the biggest hit, and that is what concerns me, because eventually he is likely to find out. If this becomes a regular thing, it is likely he is going to get suspicious, if he finds out about the apartment somehow (unless they have separate finances, how could she avoid him knowing) or if her behavior changes and it makes him suspicious and it comes out it will more then likely devastate him. I know guys who have had threesomes with their wives with other guys, who have even let their wives have flings with other men to scratch an itch, and were fine with it, but their relationship broke up when the wife had sex with another guy without him knowing, that broke his trust in her and that was it.

Being transgendered, one of the ironies of the whole situation is with guys who are cross dressers, often the wives if hubby comes out about it, are wrecked, not by them dressing up necessarily, but rather that they didn't trust them enough to tell them, kept a secret (depends, some are equally outraged). It is a biggie, keeping secrets, lying, whatever, because we want to be able to trust our spouses, need to, and this is devastating.

To the OP, if you are going to do this think hard of the consequences, and I am not talking marriage contract, sacred vows, God is gonna get you, I would be the last person to judge that stuff.....you obviously feel like you are not getting what you need at home and I more then understand that, but fundamentally are you willing to accept the consequences if he finds out? If you think he will never give you what you want and you need that so much you are willing to do something like get your own apartment, why not talk to him about your needs and be honest about how important it is? And is whatever you get out of being with another guy to fulfill fantasies and such worth losing the other things in your marriage that maybe you value? Obviously, only you can answer those questions, and I know only too well how hard they are, I have had to make tough, tough choices in that area and in the end I ended up making the decision not to break up my relationship (wasn't about sex, it was about transitioning to living as a woman, the cost of which I decided in the end was too high to others I loved, and I pulled back, and yes I have regrets but not in the decision itself). I am not telling you not to do this, I am just saying carefully weight it out before leaping, and if this is what you need to do then be aware of the consequences, and also maybe that it might be better off to risk the relationship and be open about your desires rather then trying to do it on the side, because if/when it is disclosed it will be even more devastating IMO.

 

[njlauren]

and what about if she needs to try it once? or if that's only a thing once a month? There's a chance she's deep in love with him and STILL needs to get anal sex. You put it like there's one thing OR the other, and I'm saying that she could have both. If... (the whole moral/cheating/needing stuff which I'm not repeat again)

If she was thinking about doing this only once, or once a month, why is she getting an apartment to be able to do this? That sounds to me like someone who is setting herself up to have regular sex outside the marriage. Most people 'trying' cheating would get a hotel room, and even once a month it would be cheaper then an apartment most places I know. The fact that she is going for the apartment says it is a lot more serious then 'trying it', usually when you get an apartment you sign a lease and you are obligated to pay for it for a certain term. I don't know if she meant she was getting the apartment to move out, indicating how strong this was, but as a love nest an apartment is a pretty strong step.

As far as having both, it isn't about morality, the reality is that as much as people want to deny it, keeping secrets from a partner/loved one, having compartmentalized lives, puts a strain on the relationship, stories on the LW section on Lit may not always be realistic, but where for example a spouse gets surly if the mate questions where they have been, if they seem distant , tuned out, or combative (often out of guilt) are very, very true, anyone with training in psychology or couples therapy will tell you that, I spent a lot of time talking abut that in therapy when dealing with my own issues. Usually if an issue is that strong, that the person needs to do X, and the person they are with is dead set against it, compromise may not be possible and the compromise of getting needs met on the sly is as likely to fail as trying to negotiate it where the spouse is dead set against it. I agree with another poster on this, if this is something she has to do, if anal sex or having sex with someone else is important to her, the consequences of doing it are such that she has to face the reality that it likely may destroy her marriage.

 

[amofiga]

I've been very interested in this discussion because it parallels a lot of things that happened in my life about 25 years ago. I was extremely frustrated in the lack of variety in our sex life and it seemed that my wife wasn't interested in exploring. I took the cheating track. I justified it by telling myself that I wasn't going to hurt my wife, just have a discreet affair here and there to satisfy the needs "I" felt. (Here's the "I" versus "we") Like someone else said here, cheating is erotic and it is exciting and you can deceive yourself into thinking that it's not hurting anyone as long as they don't know. I even had one lady friend who seemed in the same boat with me who had a husband that wasn't interested in "exploring" and he even told her "go get what you need just be careful and don't let me find out about it." She had a "hall pass" so it seemed great....for a while. Then I ran into a crazy woman. Ever seen "Fatal Attraction"? I pretty much lived with it. She seemed "normal" in the beginning but then her obsession started to show and I was put in the terrible situation of "don't end this thing or I'll tell your wife." Well, she ended up telling even though I didn't leave, just because she was a sociopath and liked to see suffering. There was a lot of it and fortunately, after over a year of counseling and separation, we reconciled and are still together 10 years later. Howver, it's never "forgotten" even though it may be "forgiven".

So, my advice is think long and hard before you start on a cheating path. You could end up in a worse place than a frustrating marriage. If your frustrated, talk it out, get counseling, do whatever. If you can't resolve it at some level, then you may have to make some hard decisions about splitting up or working out some sort of "open relationship" but at least it removes the "surprise and shock" factor.

 

[theunknown2008]

I bet it wouldn't if it was done to you I have know people like you before it's all fun and games til your on the other end then it's funny. I also bet you've sent her PM's trying to hook up lol

I am not the jealous type and no I didn't. To each his or her own though. Sometimes cheating is not so black and white.

 

[darklogic]

As other have said, be honest.

Do not hide an affair from your husband.

If this is a deal breaker and you are considering having an affair, then realize you are putting the marriage at risk and therefore you are contemplating the end of your marriage.

It seems to me that you can offer your husband a three way choice.

1. He can engage in anal play with you. You could highlight this choice by volunteering to try his fantasies as well. For all you know he might want you to literally choke on his cock.

2. He can allow you to engage in this limited exploration of your sexuality with others. If he says men are not an option, you could find women who like using strap ons to service your needs. If it is men specifically that you need you need to ask yourself why. And ultimately if you ask for your marriage to be open then you must give your husband the right to play with others as well. Halfway open marriages don't work, but sometimes one partner doesn't want to explore outside the boundaries of the marriage. They should still be allowed to do so, as it is a sign that they are respected. Also clear rules need to be respected. Your husband needs some form of veto so that these fantasies don't consume the marriage completely.

3. He can acquiesce by allowing you to leave the marriage and end the relationship.

How you present these choices are up to you.

 

[lynn-23]

Darklogic, I think you summed that up very well.

 

[njlauren]

Darklogic, nice post, I agree as well.

I think the problem is seeing this as a right and wrong issue, like the one poster castigating others was doing, assuming people were doing that, rather then looking at the causes, the options and the consequences of their choices. When people said she would be cheating, it wasn't a moral judgement, when you go behind a partners back to do something, it is cheating, whether it is sex or sending money to a deadbeat relative or whatever. Secrets themselves are not necessary cheating, there are things people healthily can keep secret from each other, but when it involves especially issues around sex and emotions, that isn't true IME. Like I said, even for spouses comfortable with open relationships doing stuff in secret can be a deal changer.

There is something else to going outside the marriage and it is a big, big factor in breakups. In this case the OP says her sex life is stale, she wants to explore and husband doesn't, and she wants to go outside to do this. The problem with this is the one even spouses comfortable with their spouse having sex with others wrestle with, what if the spouse gets emotionally tangled with the person they are having sex with? What if it isn't just a fuck buddy but someone you start discussing intimate things with that you should be discussing with your spouse? There can be a lot more to sex then simply sex, many people associate it with intimacy and emotional bonding, what happens then? What happens when the woman (or man) finds themselves falling in love with the new person? Maybe that reflects the reality that the person didn't really love their spouse any more, but what if the sex outside turns into something more, and that does happen, and it isn't rare? When of the stereotypes that I think is very true, least in my experience, is that men do often separate sex from emotional connection but many women do not, which makes me believe it is risky to go outside for either party (despite the stereotypes, men who have cheated do fall in love with their partner).

Especially if (as I suspect) the OP has other things she is not happy with in the marriage besides sex, going outside, especially as she seems to be thinking of doing it, could very well hasten the downfall of her marriage if she finds some sort of emotional connection with the men she is going to have sex with.

Again, if her goal is to keep her marriage and get her needs met, I think there is a big risk of losing the first to gain the second, the way she is planning to do it, and if getting her needs met sexually is so important then it maybe be better to do what posters have said and be honest with it. If hubby loves her and wants to keep the marriage going, there is probably more chance of it staying together if she tells him outright and he somehow accommodates her enough to make her satisfied then if she goes outside, for the reasons I and others have listed, including feelings of betrayal and emotional casualties of keeping a lie going, among other things.

 

[PapaMIdnite]

I still think nobody tries to be in Elsa shoes. Ok, she hasn't gave any feedback, so I assume the original situation stands, still. She wanted to be shared and the husband doesn't seem to be the type of man who shares because he's not even the type of man who can give her anal sex.

The only choices that has been constant offered as advice to her are:

- If he's not up to it, that won't happen. Suck it up and get over it

- Get a divorce

If she would be willing to have a divorce, or even contemplating it, I'm sure she wouldn't have be asking us. And if she's here asking us is because she doesn't want to suck it up and get over it.

Really, guys... life is a bit more complicated than The Little House on the Prairie (my apologies to the young set that has no fucking idea what that is ). In real life people face difficult choices and sometimes it sucks what we chose, but we do it because it's the lesser of two evils.

 

[indyguy78]

I am not the jealous type and no I didn't. To each his or her own though. Sometimes cheating is not so black and white.

No it isn't never said it was unless your doing it just to see if you can get away with it then there are no shades of gray it's pretty straight forward.

From what info was given this is pretty black and white or just made up.

 

[lynn-23]

Papa, I think she came here for people's advice (or validation). And people have pretty much given the advice of what they think is acceptable here. I think there have been a lot of other suggestions, not just suck it up or divorce. There was discusion of continuing to try to engage husband in the idea, slowly convince him to try it, etc. But it sounds to me that she has probably already made her decision, and that is to find another guy without his permission. I think most of the posters here think that is wrong, not from a Little House on the Prairie mindset, but from a practical sense of the reality that will lead to.

 

[PapaMIdnite]

Papa, I think she came here for people's advice (or validation). And people have pretty much given the advice of what they think is acceptable here. I think there have been a lot of other suggestions, not just suck it up or divorce. There was discusion of continuing to try to engage husband in the idea, slowly convince him to try it, etc. But it sounds to me that she has probably already made her decision, and that is to find another guy without his permission. I think most of the posters here think that is wrong, not from a Little House on the Prairie mindset, but from a practical sense of the reality that will lead to.

Yes, Lynn.. you'll probably right. And anyway, I think we worry much more than her about the whole thing

 

[Bramblethorn]

2. He can allow you to engage in this limited exploration of your sexuality with others. If he says men are not an option, you could find women who like using strap ons to service your needs. If it is men specifically that you need you need to ask yourself why.

Examining motivations is usually a good idea* but equally, if a guy says "you can sleep with women but not men", that also needs to be examined. That particular rule often springs from some sort of "female sexuality doesn't count" attitude that can easily lead to grief.

Googling the expression "one penis policy" will bring up some good discussion of this one.

*and "because I'm heterosexual" is one possible answer there.

 

[njlauren]

I still think nobody tries to be in Elsa shoes. Ok, she hasn't gave any feedback, so I assume the original situation stands, still. She wanted to be shared and the husband doesn't seem to be the type of man who shares because he's not even the type of man who can give her anal sex.

The only choices that has been constant offered as advice to her are:

- If he's not up to it, that won't happen. Suck it up and get over it

- Get a divorce

If she would be willing to have a divorce, or even contemplating it, I'm sure she wouldn't have be asking us. And if she's here asking us is because she doesn't want to suck it up and get over it.

Really, guys... life is a bit more complicated than The Little House on the Prairie (my apologies to the young set that has no fucking idea what that is ). In real life people face difficult choices and sometimes it sucks what we chose, but we do it because it's the lesser of two evils.

Life is complicated, something I know only too well, and I also understand about choosing the lesser of two evils as well up close and personal.There are shades of gray and so forth. I don't know whether her desire to have sex with other men is because she wants to have anal sex or if she simply is bored with her life and wants some spice. What I think concerned people was she said she didn't want a divorce yet didn't seem aware of the consequences of her action, that going out, getting an apartment and having sex there was likely to lead to what she claimed she didn't want, a divorce, and probably a bitter one.

It will be interesting to see what happens with this story, though as with most internet posts, I suspect we never will hear.

 

[njlauren]

Examining motivations is usually a good idea* but equally, if a guy says "you can sleep with women but not men", that also needs to be examined. That particular rule often springs from some sort of "female sexuality doesn't count" attitude that can easily lead to grief.

Googling the expression "one penis policy" will bring up some good discussion of this one.

*and "because I'm heterosexual" is one possible answer there.

Yeah, probably. Most men have a lot less problem if their wife is having sex with another woman because it isn't direct competition for them and they assume that because their wife married a guy that any bisexual fling is likely to be 'only sex', that if she wanted to be with a woman she would have been. Obviously, women leave men for another woman, it happens, but it is also a lot more likely for women to leave a guy for another guy and I think most husbands see it that way.
And yep, there is the idea that a woman would never leave her husband because she would just need a dick too much.....

 

[SweetErika]

It'd be nice if Elsa would clarify the reaction to the anal video and getting an apartment statements.

In the "Husband Sucking" thread, she noted her husband was against giving anal because he felt it was "gay." Of course I'm not sure, but I'm willing to bet if he's that ignorant and closed-minded on issues such as homosexuality, anal play and anal sex, then he's ignorant and closed-minded about larger issues, which is likely causing trouble in their relationship.

Elsa, have you considered bringing anal and other toys into the bedroom? You said you really enjoy anal, so you could at the very least incorporate anal toys into your masturbation, if not sex with your husband. On the sharing front, using a toy for double penetration or whatever and fantasizing could be a compromise as well.

Like the other ethical members here, I'd strongly advise against cheating. Either figure out ways to get your needs met within the rules of your relationship OR let your husband know those needs being unmet is not negotiable for you, and if he's not interested in trying to meet them, you can get them met elsewhere and/or leave. You need to give him the choice of participating or not (by separating/divorcing), though.

 

[PapaMIdnite]

Like the other ethical members here, I'd strongly advise against cheating.

Being ethical means to chose the right path opposed to the wrong path. Now, right and wrong, in many cases, is not that easy to separate. You'll need to go through a lot of details of her relationship to understand her situation, and then establishing what's right and what's wrong. In such cases as Elsa's, more often than not, things are too complicated to easily determine what's right and what's not.

I'm married. For the last 15 years my wife and me have sex about once a year, sometimes I get lucky and the starts alignment helps to have like 3 days of quite intense sex (maybe 2 times a day, but mostly "3 days of quite intense sex" means once every day), but normally she doesn't want to have sex. I have a 10 years old son whom I don't want to leave without a family, and that's why I don't want a divorce. And I haven't had real sex with any other woman since we're married.

Does my wife deserve to be cheated? Surely not. She's a lovely woman, a great mother and an amazing friend. Should I have to ask for a divorce when sex started to be dysfunctional? Yes, I should. But I was in love (maybe I still am, I don't know) and I hoped things would change. I don't want to leave my son without a family and yet I want to have sex but my wife doesn't. What's the right decision here? Shall I suck it up, get over it and dedicate my energy to save the whales only because I didn't ask a divorce when that option was acceptable for me?

Being ethical is really easy when the shit lands in other's lawn.

 

[roomfor1more]

"Sharing" has a very broad meaning and it means different things to different people. It can mean a threesome, a cuckold, open relationship, manage de trios, bukkake, gang bank, foursome, or orgy to name a few. Therefore it is important that you define for any potentialy playmate, your husband and for yourself what you mean by sharing.

There is a mis-held belief that all men are into threesomes and expecting that he is going to be receptive to the idea may prove to be detrimental. Instead it is better to expect and prepare for the worst case scenario when you bring up the idea to. If you do then you should be able to handle most situations that may come up.

The best way to approach it, I feel, is not to be demanding and be open to negotiating. This means discussing the idea without any expectations and work thorugh the issue together. Another words the approach you use should be a win-win approach whereby your husband and yourself will get something out of sharing you. If you can approach the discussion without expections then I feel, it can be productive. Finally it is important to remember a discussion of this magnitdue may take time and it may mean your husband may need time to process the information. Therefore, the more patient you can be and if you know when to "pull-back," then it should go along way to help you achieve your goal.

 

[elsaparker]

Thank you everyone for your input.

I wrote this in the heat of the moment when I was considering separation, not cheating. I should have been clearer, but again I was very upset at the time and I just came here to get my frustration out. I thought that would end this thread, I didn’t expect another whole discussion but I read through it all and appreciate the input.

Are you near NYC? Maybe I can satisfy your urges and give you some more time to think about next steps

Sorry, but your proposal is a big turnoff for me. If (If is the keyword here), If I am going to cheat, its not going to be with someone who makes me the offer online, and certainly not someone who has read my posts here. Guys please save your time and stop filling up my inbox. I am trying to be respectful. Thanks.

Examining motivations is usually a good idea* but equally, if a guy says "you can sleep with women but not men", that also needs to be examined. That particular rule often springs from some sort of "female sexuality doesn't count" attitude that can easily lead to grief.

Googling the expression "one penis policy" will bring up some good discussion of this one.

*and "because I'm heterosexual" is one possible answer there.

I have done it with women before marriage. But not the whole strap-on in the ass thing. Strap-on's don't ejaculate unfortunately.

Being ethical means to chose the right path opposed to the wrong path. Now, right and wrong, in many cases, is not that easy to separate. You'll need to go through a lot of details of her relationship to understand her situation, and then establishing what's right and what's wrong. In such cases as Elsa's, more often than not, things are too complicated to easily determine what's right and what's not.

I'm married. For the last 15 years my wife and me have sex about once a year, sometimes I get lucky and the starts alignment helps to have like 3 days of quite intense sex (maybe 2 times a day, but mostly "3 days of quite intense sex" means once every day), but normally she doesn't want to have sex. I have a 10 years old son whom I don't want to leave without a family, and that's why I don't want a divorce. And I haven't had real sex with any other woman since we're married.

Does my wife deserve to be cheated? Surely not. She's a lovely woman, a great mother and an amazing friend. Should I have to ask for a divorce when sex started to be dysfunctional? Yes, I should. But I was in love (maybe I still am, I don't know) and I hoped things would change. I don't want to leave my son without a family and yet I want to have sex but my wife doesn't. What's the right decision here? Shall I suck it up, get over it and dedicate my energy to save the whales only because I didn't ask a divorce when that option was acceptable for me?

Being ethical is really easy when the shit lands in other's lawn.

Wow, someone who actually gets it. This is where I stand right now. I don’t need to add another word. I feel the same way.

"Sharing" has a very broad meaning and it means different things to different people. It can mean a threesome, a cuckold, open relationship, manage de trios, bukkake, gang bank, foursome, or orgy to name a few. Therefore it is important that you define for any potentialy playmate, your husband and for yourself what you mean by sharing.

There is a mis-held belief that all men are into threesomes and expecting that he is going to be receptive to the idea may prove to be detrimental. Instead it is better to expect and prepare for the worst case scenario when you bring up the idea to. If you do then you should be able to handle most situations that may come up.

The best way to approach it, I feel, is not to be demanding and be open to negotiating. This means discussing the idea without any expectations and work thorugh the issue together. Another words the approach you use should be a win-win approach whereby your husband and yourself will get something out of sharing you. If you can approach the discussion without expections then I feel, it can be productive. Finally it is important to remember a discussion of this magnitdue may take time and it may mean your husband may need time to process the information. Therefore, the more patient you can be and if you know when to "pull-back," then it should go along way to help you achieve your goal.

I am not sure how I am moving forward with this right now. You're right I need to understand exactly what I want myself. I was more inclined towards an open relationship. I don't know if that is going to happen.