Impeach Bush!

[SEVERUSMAX]

Surely, his unconstitutional and otherwise illegal acts are FAR worse than Clinton lying about a blowjob, which was why "Slick Willie" (whom I personally despise) was impeached. Impeach Bush! This is a "black and white" matter!

 

[amicus]

Ahem, Severus...Former President Clinton had the same authority to perform unwarranted phone surveillance.

Shall we impeach him again? Ya got my vote!

amicus...

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I haven't taken a stand on either side of this issue yet. There's still waaaayyyyy too much left to come out before any kind of decision can be made.

However, if you think it's a simple black and white issue, you need to research echelon and carnivore. Both are domestic spying programs instituted before Bush ever came into office. When you read up on them, I think you'll see a whole lot more gray than black and white.

This thing needs to be fully and impartially investigated before opinions are reached. What we've heard so far is the snowflake on top of the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Surely, his unconstitutional and otherwise illegal acts are FAR worse than Clinton lying about a blowjob, which was why "Slick Willie" (whom I personally despise) was impeached. Impeach Bush! This is a "black and white" matter!

I wonder how long it will be before people stop saying Clinton was impeached for "lying about a blowjob" or "lying about sex" or other trivialization of the true facts. Technically, he WAS impeached for lying, but the true facts are that he was lying while in court under oath. That's called perjury and it's a felony, as Clinton, a lawyer, knew full well.

I thought about it at the time and concluded that if I had been a member of the House, I would have followed the party line in voting for or against. If I had been a member of the Senate, I would have voted for acquittal on the grounds that perjury about a personal matter would not rise to the level of "High Crimes and Misdemeanors". That's not to say it wasn't a crime and prosecutable, just not grounds for impeachment.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I strongly doubt the legality of the deposition and civil trial, not to mention the Independent Counsel Act. Also, the basic question that he lied about was his own personal sex life. Something that used to be understood as separate from one's public life (Alexander Hamilton, for example).

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Impeach Bush!

No.

Legal issues aside, if you impeach George Bush, that would make Dick Cheney President of the United States of America.

Several recent Republican presidents have shrewdly picked VP's who would be so unacceptable as president, no one would consider impeaching them.

Richard Nixon had it made with Spiro Agnew as his VP. But when Spiggy had to resign and Ford took his place, Nixon was in trouble.

George H W Bush had Dan Quayle as VP

George W Bush has Cheney.

Just for the recond, and IMHO, Ford and Reagan had presidential caliber VP's. Ford named Nelson Rockerfeller as his VP while Bush Sr. served as Reagan's.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Boxlicker101]

I strongly doubt the legality of the deposition and civil trial, not to mention the Independent Counsel Act. Also, the basic question that he lied about was his own personal sex life. Something that used to be understood as separate from one's public life (Alexander Hamilton, for example).

Clinton was accused of committing an act of sexual harassment while governor of Arkansas. While under oath he said he had never had sex with a government employee, which was a lie. He is not and was not above the law. The question was relevant to the case under consideration.

When did Hamilton commit perjury about his sex life.

Edited to add: I also don't believe Hamilton ever held an elective office. He was the US treasurer under Washington, but I believe that was all, although he was and still is a highly respected man.

 

[amicus]

No.

Legal issues aside, if you impeach George Bush, that would make Dick Cheney President of the United States of America.

Several recent Republican presidents have shrewdly picked VP's who would be so unacceptable as president, no one would consider impeaching them.

Richard Nixon had it made with Spiro Agnew as his VP. But when Spiggy had to resign and Ford took his place, Nixon was in trouble.

George H W Bush had Dan Quayle as VP

George W Bush has Cheney.

Just for the recond, and IMHO, Ford and Reagan had presidential caliber VP's. Ford named Nelson Rockerfeller as his VP while Bush Sr. served as Reagan's.

Rumple Foreskin

So you wouldn't like Cheney in the Oval office? Hmmmm


I recently watched Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour in a hearing in Washington and was greatly impressed by his forthright honesty and down to earth rhetoric. I think a Cheney/Barbour ticket would be just the thing.


amicus...

 

[cantdog]

Bush committed perjury in Texas, in a signed deposition. It was a matter involving money and influence, not sex.

Both houses of Congress are controlled by his party, dude. There won't be any impeachment.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Bush committed perjury in Texas, in a signed deposition. It was a matter involving money and influence, not sex.

Both houses of Congress are controlled by his party, dude. There won't be any impeachment.

He might be charged with perjury but it is extremely likely that he would be impleached. It would depend on the circumstances. Most people have committed perjury one time or another.

 

[Liar]

Most people have committed perjury one time or another.

I haven't. Can I be prez?

 

[jacintexas]

No.

Legal issues aside, if you impeach George Bush, that would make Dick Cheney President of the United States of America.

Several recent Republican presidents have shrewdly picked VP's who would be so unacceptable as president, no one would consider impeaching them.

Richard Nixon had it made with Spiro Agnew as his VP. But when Spiggy had to resign and Ford took his place, Nixon was in trouble.

George H W Bush had Dan Quayle as VP

George W Bush has Cheney.

Just for the recond, and IMHO, Ford and Reagan had presidential caliber VP's. Ford named Nelson Rockerfeller as his VP while Bush Sr. served as Reagan's.

Rumple Foreskin

Cheney would become President only if Bush were convicted and removed from office.. not if he was simply empeached and found not guilty as Clinton was.. Personally I'm beginning to believe Cheney will resign due to health reasons and Rice with be selected as VP to replace him putting her in position to run in 2008 as the GOP pres nominee.. pitting her against Hillary if she runs and is nominated... just my thoughts

 

[amicus]

Cheney would become President only if Bush were convicted and removed from office.. not if he was simply empeached and found not guilty as Clinton was.. Personally I'm beginning to believe Cheney will resign due to health reasons and Rice with be selected as VP to replace him putting her in position to run in 2008 as the GOP pres nominee.. pitting her against Hillary if she runs and is nominated... just my thoughts

Ah, one who watches the news and the speculation.

Take my word, there will be no Rice versus Clinton contest in '08; take it to the bank.

amicus

 

[Somme]

So you wouldn't like Cheney in the Oval office? Hmmmm


I recently watched Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour in a hearing in Washington and was greatly impressed by his forthright honesty and down to earth rhetoric. I think a Cheney/Barbour ticket would be just the thing.


amicus...

For an intelligent man, amicus, this is beneath contempt. None of the neocons are fit to be anywhere NEAR power - unless they're playing with live wires from the national grid with wet fingers and, preferably, standing in puddles - barefoot.

 

[davidwatts]

So you wouldn't like Cheney in the Oval office? Hmmmm


I recently watched Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour in a hearing in Washington and was greatly impressed by his forthright honesty and down to earth rhetoric. I think a Cheney/Barbour ticket would be just the thing.


amicus...

Haley Barbour and forthright honesty in the same sentence is unique, and screams for a laugh track, much like James Carville and measured response would.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

So you wouldn't like Cheney in the Oval office? Hmmmm

As far as I can tell, there's not *that* much difference as it is... <shrug>

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Surely, his unconstitutional and otherwise illegal acts are FAR worse than Clinton lying about a blowjob, which was why "Slick Willie" (whom I personally despise) was impeached. Impeach Bush! This is a "black and white" matter!

What, exactly, are you going to charge him with? And what evidence can you present that your charge is founded? And can you present strong enough evidence to convince a GOP majority to impeach their own president?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

What, exactly, are you going to charge him with? And what evidence can you present that your charge is founded? And can you present strong enough evidence to convince a GOP majority to impeach their own president?

Oh, I don't ACTUALLY think that it will happen, but someone had to say it. I wouldn't like Cheney in office, either. Of course, he'd probably croak after a few months in office from the hypertension. Then we would have Dennis Hastert as President, which would be a slight improvement.

Also, this IS more serious than perjury. This is an egregious abuse of the office of President and violation of the Constitution. If a President can be impeached over ANY crime, let such unconstitutional acts be regarded as the crimes that they are and impeach him over it.

As for Hamilton, I was making the point that the generation of the Founders regarded sex as a personal matter, not a public one. He admitted to adultery to clarify that he didn't commit an actual crime: embezzlement of Treasury funds. He understood that the latter was a LOT worse.

Bush still hasn't explained about the torture, domestic spying, or his own desertion from the Air National Guard.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Oh, I don't ACTUALLY think that it will happen, but someone had to say it. I wouldn't like Cheney in office, either. Of course, he'd probably croak after a few months in office from the hypertension. Then we would have Dennis Hastert as President, which would be a slight improvement.

Also, this IS more serious than perjury. This is an egregious abuse of the office of President and violation of the Constitution. If a President can be impeached over ANY crime, let such unconstitutional acts be regarded as the crimes that they are and impeach him over it.

As for Hamilton, I was making the point that the generation of the Founders regarded sex as a personal matter, not a public one. He admitted to adultery to clarify that he didn't commit an actual crime: embezzlement of Treasury funds. He understood that the latter was a LOT worse.

Bush still hasn't explained about the torture, domestic spying, or his own desertion from the Air National Guard.

I doubt that he actually deserted from the ANG and, if he did, it was long ago and before he became president. I doubt if he ever actually tortured anybody and I doubt if he ever ordered any. The torture at the prison in Iraq was a local issue and is a dead issue. Allegations of other acts of torture are being made by some very untrustworthy persons. Recently Saddam claimed he had been tortured and the other claims are about as believable.

The FBI and the CIA have always spied on dangerous and lawless groups such as the KKK, the Black Panthers, the Mafia, various militias and Al Qaeda. This is a tactic, and a good one, to limit their evil deeds. Listening in an cell phone conversations isn't illegal because they are no more than radios using the public airwaves. The Fourth Amendment has a major exception; if law enforcement agents have reason to believe that a crime is in progress, they do not have to go and get a warrant to investigate. If cops hear a person scresaming for help, they can breeak into a building to provide that help. This principle would also apply to a telephone conversation when there is reason to believe that the persons speaking are conspiring to commit a crime.

 

[Guest]

And can you present strong enough evidence to convince a GOP majority to impeach their own president?

There's the rub.

In today's divisive world, a President could <insert outrageious crime here> on the 50 yard line of the Superbowl in front of 100,000 people and a world wide television audience, and get away with it totally as long as his party controlled both sides of Congress.

Today, our representatives see themselves as a members of a party, and working for its donors more than they do as members of their Nation and working for its citizens.

All I want for Christmas is the return of right and wrong, integrity and honesty. <sigh>

Please don't tell me how naive I am. I am depressed enough during this joyous holiday period.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

There's the rub.

In today's divisive world, a President could <insert outrageious crime here> on the 50 yard line of the Superbowl in front of 100,000 people and a world wide television audience, and get away with it totally as long as his party controlled both sides of Congress.

Today, our representatives see themselves as a members of a party, and working for its donors more than they do as members of their Nation and working for its citizens.

All I want for Christmas is the return of right and wrong, integrity and honesty. <sigh>

Please don't tell me how naive I am. I am depressed enough during this joyous holiday period.

You won't see integrity return. Neither side stands for it. Democrats will still insist a man lying under oath is somehow noble and wonderful, while the GOP will have mass being celebrated to open sessions of congress.

Integrity and politicas are as antithical as cats & dogs.

 

[Guest]

You won't see integrity return. Neither side stands for it. Democrats will still insist a man lying under oath is somehow noble and wonderful, while the GOP will have mass being celebrated to open sessions of congress.

Integrity and politicas are as antithical as cats & dogs.

I told you not tell me I was being naive.

Where's my copy of "Final Exit" that I bought at that estate sale.

 

[Liar]

All I want for Christmas is the return of right and wrong, integrity and honesty. <sigh>

Please don't tell me how naive I am. I am depressed enough during this joyous holiday period.

Naive or not, that's quote worthy.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

I told you not tell me I was being naive.

You're being naive, you're being naive, you're . . . okay, that's a bit of overkill.


As much as I detest several members of the current administration, my only question is, "Was what he did illegal or not?" This is the only real matter that needs to be resolved. I'm unclear as to exactly what portion of the constitution is being used by the administration to support Bush's actions. (Seriously, I'd really like to know so I can look it over for myself). If it is illegal, wasn't Nixon almost slow roasted over an open flame for a much less grievous offence. If it isn't, then we shouldn't throw around "impeachment" just because we don't like the job he is doing.

And since Clinton has been brought up . . . I feel he should have been impeached, and this is coming from a moderate liberal. Getting a hummer in the White House made him a contemptible person in my eyes, but still allowed me to have respect for him as a leader. Lying in court seriously reduced my opinion of him, though it is still higher than the current president. But just because Clinton got away with one IMHO, it doesn't mean that the next conservative president (aka Bush) deserves a get-out-of-jail-free pass if he screws up. Bush should be judged by what Bush does.

 

[Guest]

You're being naive, you're being naive, you're . . . okay, that's a bit of overkill.

Sticks and stones can break my bones, but taunting Andean quadrapeds can never hurt me.