Impeachment not going so well?

[JackLuis]

CNN’s Jake Tapper does line-by-line fact check of Jim Jordan’s nonstop misleading statements during impeachment hearing

Not going so well for Coach Jordan.

 

[Dumpington]

Cubantripod writes: "The burden is on the one making the allegation. Trump doesn't need to justify his actions. Congress needs to prove the allegation. That's what presumption of innocence means."

I don't think the House Democrats really thought this whole thing through. They haven't swayed a single Republican vote, and the ONLY bipartisanship shown thus far has been regarding opposition to impeachment by Democrats and Republicans in the legislative branch!

Fuzzy1975 writes: "What I see coming is the final nail in the coffin of your system of checks and balances. Unless the voters wake up and pay attention to this."

The U.S. Constitution is working EXACTLY as it's supposed to, just as it did following the 2016 elections! And YES, Fuzzy - the American voters ARE paying attention to Adam Schiff's little clown-show, and it's going to cost his Democratic Party dearly in the 2020 elections!

BabyBoomer50s writes: "Looks like some Dems will be joining the GOP in a bipartisan vote against impeachment."

Those House Democrats in pro-Trump congressional districts see the writing on the wall. The exact same thing happened in the U.S. Senate races in the 2018 midterms when FOUR incumbent Democrats who supported their party's "Dr. Christine Blasey-Ford clown show" were defeated by the people in their respective states!

 

[JackLuis]

Republicans expect impeachment to cost the GOP seats in 2020: ‘Cult members can’t see past the Kool-Aid’

As the GOP strategy for the impeachment of President Donald Trump seems to be a combination of shouting and stubbornly denying facts, even some Republicans are worried that ignoring reality could have historic implications.

In 1974, Republicans suffered an epic defeat following the impeachment inquiry that resulted in the resignation of GOP President Richard Nixon.

How many Senate seats will flip in 2020?

 

[JackLuis]

Dems bust GOP claim that no one has died as a result of Trump withholding Ukraine aid

Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) fact-checked a Republican claim that no one died while President Donald Trump was withholding aid to Ukraine.

She sought unanimous consent to add a Los Angeles Times article titled, “Trump froze military aid — as Ukrainian soldiers perished in battle.”

So far more than 14,000 Ukrainians have died and 1.5 million people have been displaced while the country tries to defend itself from the Russian invasion. Lofgren noted that the most “deadly” day on the battlefield for Ukrainians was at the end of August while they were desperately waiting for the necessary aid Congress agreed to give them.

The GOP is dying on the hill of their own lies!

 

[1Diver2]

It's really sad reading some of these posts.
Sounds like sports team trash talking. Do some of you understand the difference between politics and supporting your team?
Would you prefer justice served or is it a win for the team at any cost?

 

[Cubantripod]

Hey. Thought. If we took those things away, think Americans would wake up and pay attention to the important things? Yeah, no. Didn't think so either.

Probably, but not on this issue those. That's why I said the first line in. This was the wrong issue.

 

[Dumpington]

JackLuis posts: "Republicans expect impeachment to cost the GOP seats in 2020: ‘Cult members can’t see past the Kool-Aid’"

Back in the summer of 2018, the headline being talked about by progressive left-wing Democrats was:

Republicans expect Kavanaugh nomination fight to cost their party U.S. Senate seats in 2018 midterms!

But that's NOT what happened, is it? No, the American public recognized Dr. Christine Blasey-Ford's testimony against Judge Brett Kavanaugh as the "clown show" that it WAS, and FOUR of the incumbent Democratic Party U.S. Senators who voted against Judge Kavanaugh's confirmation onto our U.S. Supreme Court were DEFEATED that November, strengthening President Trump's party's hold on the U.S. Senate!

Not ONLY will this make the president's next Supreme Court nominee that much easier to confirm, but it ALSO makes removing this president from office in a senate trial all-but-IMPOSSIBLE for Adam Schiff & his House Democrats (and don't think that they don't KNOW it!)

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Dems bust GOP claim that no one has died as a result of Trump withholding Ukraine aid



The GOP is dying on the hill of their own lies!

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Jake Tapper doesn’t have a vote in the House or the Senate, and relatively few people watch his network. My deepest sympathy for airport captives.

Since the impeachment proceedings began, public support for impeachment has been shrinking. We’re pretty much split along party lines as we’ve been for three years. A new poll out today in the critical swing state of Wisconsin shows 52% oppose vs 40% who support. Zero GOP members of the House are voting for impeachment, while 5-7 Democrats are likely join the bipartisan vote against it. Meanwhile, the Senate is poised for a quick acquittal. If this is your idea of dying on the hill, I hope the death march continues.

In other news, Conservatives in the U.K. today achieved their biggest victory since Margaret Thatcher. As you’ll recall, her victory was followed by a large conservative victory in 1980 in the US. Brexit is happening. As you may recall, the US had a pretty stunning election in 2016 following the Brexit referendum.

Cheers.

 

[YDB95]

It's really sad reading some of these posts.
Sounds like sports team trash talking. Do some of you understand the difference between politics and supporting your team?
Would you prefer justice served or is it a win for the team at any cost?

Couldn't agree more. Here's hoping enough Senate Republicans get that through their heads.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Dream on. This is silly. Dems failed to make the case. Public didn’t buy it. Acquittal is assured. The

 

[Cubantripod]

Couldn't agree more. Here's hoping enough Senate Republicans get that through their heads.

The Dems. aren't doing anything out of a sense of duty to country. They told their voters they were going to impeach him. They're trying to prevent their base from revolting. Republicans know their base will revolt if they don't support Trump. And all this because the winner will be nominating the next justice to RGB's seat.

 

[YDB95]

Dream on. This is silly. Dems failed to make the case. Public didn’t buy it.

I'm sure that's what the news sources you use are saying.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I'm sure that's what the news sources you use are saying.

The source is RealClear Politics which publishes all the major polls. They also aggregate them to produce a moving average. At the beginning of the proceedings, a plurality favored impeachment. That has evaporated. The more hearings they held, the faster support shrank. The public is evenly split. 46.5% yes/ remove, 46.5% say no. Public opinion is right back where it was before the silliness began.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...ment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

The news sources reporting no GOP support and some Democrat defections in Congress include every major outlet you can think of. New York Times, Washington Post, WSJ, USA Today, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc.

Sorry to burst your bubble with credible sources.

 

[icanhelp1]

The source is RealClear Politics which publishes all the major polls. They also aggregate them to produce a moving average. At the beginning of the proceedings, a plurality favored impeachment. That has evaporated. The more hearings they held, the faster support shrank. The public is evenly split. 46.5% yes/ remove, 46.5% say no. Public opinion is right back where it was before the silliness began.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...ment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

The news sources reporting no GOP support and some Democrat defections in Congress include every major outlet you can think of. New York Times, Washington Post, WSJ, USA Today, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc.

Sorry to burst your bubble with credible sources.

What the left doesn't seem to understand or comprehend is the credibility of the impeachment proceedings is based on the 'cry wolf scenario'. When you cry impeachment before a president is even inaugurated you're drawing battle lines before an allegation is even tabled. Then you have a DOJ found to be complicit in a coup style take down of a duly elected president, using a fake dossier paid for by the DNC, fraudulent FISA applications and a criminal investigation started by leaks by an FBI director. The Dems jumped from one fake allegation to another. The american people are tired of the whole process.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Fuzzy1975 writes: "What I see coming is the final nail in the coffin of your system of checks and balances. Unless the voters wake up and pay attention to this."

The U.S. Constitution is working EXACTLY as it's supposed to, just as it did following the 2016 elections!

I agree with you, up till this point in time. What happens next is going to be the turning point.

Everyone seems to put this in the context of Trump.

While Trump is currently the "deer in the headlight" this is about more than just Trump.

It is about the separation of powers, about congress doing it's job. That "job' in order to meet the needs of it citizens, requires party cooperation. Bi partisanship if you will. Currently that does not exist on either side!! It will not get better, unless this group decides to act in that manner.

No one person ( or party) is ever 100% right, or 100% wrong, all the time.

 

[icanhelp1]

I agree with you, up till this point in time. What happens next is going to be the turning point.

What's next is not the turning point, it simply goes to the senate for trial and a conclusion, then we move on!

Everyone seems to put this in the context of Trump.

It's Trump being impeached!

While Trump is currently the "deer in the headlight" this is about more than just Trump.

No it's not! " deer in the headlights " He knows the score, it's the Dems that are throwing away any opportunity for 2020!

It is about the separation of powers, about congress doing it's job. That "job' in order to meet the needs of it citizens, requires party cooperation. Bi partisanship if you will. Currently that does not exist on either side!! It will not get better, unless this group decides to act in that manner.

Check back after the Durham investigation. Horowitz has already shed light on how corrupt the Obama DOJ and FBI were and how complicit and corrupt they were in this impeachment fucktussle. Spying on americans for party gains is as bad as it gets. To politicise the DOJ is unconscionable and goes to the very fabric of our legal system The dem house is riding on the back of an investigation that was so corrupt it could bring down the FISA courts as we know it now.

No one person ( or party) is ever 100% right, or 100% wrong, all the time.

You can differ on policy but when an organization that is tasked with the protection of its citizens subverts our very constitution, well, we have bigger fish to fry than this impeachment fucktussle. Obama's open mic disaster is of much more consequence than this current impeachment disaster and is truly a Quid Pro Quo with a foreign adversary. Impeachment simply cannot be used as a mechanism to remove a president or settle political disagreements, that responsibility falls squarely on its people regardless of what your party affiliations are!

 

[YDB95]

The source is RealClear Politics which publishes all the major polls. They also aggregate them to produce a moving average.

As I have explained to Dump a number of times, averaging out the polls like RCP does is not a scientifically valid method. They don't control for margin of error, sample size, the pollster's track record, or a number of other issues that should be addressed. Also, RCP is a right-leaning outfit, so it's highly unlikely that they really do publish "all the major polls" so much as they publish all the polls from major right-leaning sources.

The news sources reporting no GOP support and some Democrat defections in Congress include every major outlet you can think of. New York Times, Washington Post, WSJ, USA Today, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc.

Sorry to burst your bubble with credible sources.

Sorry to burst your bubble with the fact that "some Democrat[ic] defections in Congress" amounted to, at last count, two out of 235. So calling that "some defections," while technically accurate, is extremely generous.

And that's not even touching on the fact that some of those sources have editorialised in favour of impeachment.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

As I have explained to Dump a number of times, averaging out the polls like RCP does is not a scientifically valid method. They don't control for margin of error, sample size, the pollster's track record, or a number of other issues that should be addressed. Also, RCP is a right-leaning outfit, so it's highly unlikely that they really do publish "all the major polls" so much as they publish all the polls from major right-leaning sources.



Sorry to burst your bubble with the fact that "some Democrat[ic] defections in Congress" amounted to, at last count, two out of 235. So calling that "some defections," while technically accurate, is extremely generous.

And that's not even touching on the fact that some of those sources have editorialised in favour of impeachment.

Apparently, you’ve never visited the RCP site. They publish all the major polls, including Quinnipiac, Monmouth, NBC/WSJ, Gallup, CNN, and many more. Moving averages are not snapshots - they provide an indicator of trends. Over time and multiple polls, outliers get smoothed out. The articles RCP links to are not their own. They aggregate news and opinion stories from major news outlets such as New York Times, New York Post, Washington Post, Washington Examiner, Wall Street Journal, Guardian, USA and others. Some lean right, some lean left. Paul Krugman, Thomas Friedman and Robert Reich are among the regular columnists whose pieces are published on the site. You’d be hard pressed to try and argue that right wing content is disproportionately represented.

 

[magicalmoments]

RCP is noted by independent assessing agencies as having a right wing bias and they routinely source from agencies known for not fact checking.

The practice of averaging polls is statistically unsound and this can be shown by their consistent error laden predictions. However, their error rate is usually within the standard 3 or 4 percent error margin that most pollens have.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

RCP is noted by independent assessing agencies as having a right wing bias and they routinely source from agencies known for not fact checking.

The practice of averaging polls is statistically unsound and this can be shown by their consistent error laden predictions. However, their error rate is usually within the standard 3 or 4 percent error margin that most pollens have.

While I whole-heartedly agree that the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, The Guardian, USA, and most other publications RCP links to are known for not fact checking, I’d like you to identify these “independent assessing agencies” that have asserted that RCP has a right wing bias. Can you do that? Link please.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "Here's hoping enough Senate Republicans get that through their heads."

If enough Senate Republicans begin respecting Nancy Pelosi's leadership? If enough Senate Republicans begin taking orders from Adam Schiff? If enough Senate Republicans invite Greta Thunberg to Washington and declare her to be their leader? If enough Senate Republicans vote to make Alexandria Ocasion-Cortez their majority leader? I could go on & on with such silliness!

You're funny, YDB95 - if you believe that the Republicans in the U.S. Senate are going to recognize the Pelosi/Schiff clown-show for anything other than what it actually is! This is going to seriously damage the Democratic Party in 2020! The Republicans will be the primary beneficiaries of the Dems' partisan stupidity!

BabyBoomer50s writes: "Dems failed to make the case. Public didn’t buy it. Acquittal is assured."

Cubantripod writes: "The Dems. aren't doing anything out of a sense of duty to country. They told their voters they were going to impeach him. They're trying to prevent their base from revolting."

The ADULTS in the Democartic Party simply lost control, and their party will pay a steep price in 2020 for their foolishness. The SAME THING happened in 2018 to those Senate Democrats who wholeheartedly embraced the dishonesty of Dr. Christine Blasey-Ford. Four incumbent Senate Dems lost their seats in the 2018 mid-terms for buying into that unsuccessful effort to block Judge Kavanaugh's confirmation onto the U.S. Supreme Court!

 

[icanhelp1]

YDB95 writes: "Here's hoping enough Senate Republicans get that through their heads."

If enough Senate Republicans begin respecting Nancy Pelosi's leadership? If enough Senate Republicans begin taking orders from Adam Schiff? If enough Senate Republicans invite Greta Thunberg to Washington and declare her to be their leader? If enough Senate Republicans vote to make Alexandria Ocasion-Cortez their majority leader? I could go on & on with such silliness!

You're funny, YDB95 - if you believe that the Republicans in the U.S. Senate are going to recognize the Pelosi/Schiff clown-show for anything other than what it actually is! This is going to seriously damage the Democratic Party in 2020! The Republicans will be the primary beneficiaries of the Dems' partisan stupidity!

BabyBoomer50s writes: "Dems failed to make the case. Public didn’t buy it. Acquittal is assured."

Cubantripod writes: "The Dems. aren't doing anything out of a sense of duty to country. They told their voters they were going to impeach him. They're trying to prevent their base from revolting."

The ADULTS in the Democartic Party simply lost control, and their party will pay a steep price in 2020 for their foolishness. The SAME THING happened in 2018 to those Senate Democrats who wholeheartedly embraced the dishonesty of Dr. Christine Blasey-Ford. Four incumbent Senate Dems lost their seats in the 2018 mid-terms for buying into that unsuccessful effort to block Judge Kavanaugh's confirmation onto the U.S. Supreme Court!

You notice you don’t hear much out of AOC lately!

 

[magicalmoments]

#71 above
There are a number of sites, all easily found on Google.

This is one I use occasionally: mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I agree with you, up till this point in time. What happens next is going to be the turning point.

What's next is not the turning point, it simply goes to the senate for trial and a conclusion, then we move on!

If that is all you can see that this is about, well as I have said elsewhere, you get the government you deserve.


Everyone seems to put this in the context of Trump.

It's Trump being impeached!

I really left out the word Republican in the above. It is more than about Trump, it is about precedent, and the strength of your institutions long after Trump is gone.

While Trump is currently the "deer in the headlight" this is about more than just Trump.

No it's not! " deer in the headlights " He knows the score, it's the Dems that are throwing away any opportunity for 2020!

You so missed my meaning of the above remarks , but then again, all you seem to look towards is the next election, sad.


It is about the separation of powers, about congress doing it's job. That "job' in order to meet the needs of it citizens, requires party cooperation. Bi partisanship if you will. Currently that does not exist on either side!! It will not get better, unless this group decides to act in that manner.


Check back after the Durham investigation. Horowitz has already shed light on how corrupt the Obama DOJ and FBI were and how complicit and corrupt they were in this impeachment fucktussle. Spying on americans for party gains is as bad as it gets. To politicise the DOJ is unconscionable and goes to the very fabric of our legal system The dem house is riding on the back of an investigation that was so corrupt it could bring down the FISA courts as we know it now.


I did not read Horowitz's report. However from what I have gleaned from news, online, here etc, his report did not point towards any deep state, spying on political party etc. It did point 17 errors. It clearly stated the investigation was started without political interference. Given how many innocent people get convicted of crimes, we all know mistakes happen. What matters are the intent of those mistakes. In this report i think there was one such mistake that may merit investigation. However the transgression does not seem to be a conspiracy.

I await the Durham report, one which to me, is already tainted. Why, well Muller never spoke a word about his, Horowitz never spoke a word about his, yet Durham, and Barr have already been leaking the outcome. I am sorry, but I have seen my fair share of political investigations in Canada, Independent investigators, go to extreme pains to ensure neutrality ( as did Muller and Horowitz)by not going on record on anything about their reports.


No one person ( or party) is ever 100% right, or 100% wrong, all the time.

You can differ on policy but when an organization that is tasked with the protection of its citizens subverts our very constitution, well, we have bigger fish to fry than this impeachment fucktussle. Obama's open mic disaster is of much more consequence than this current impeachment disaster and is truly a Quid Pro Quo with a foreign adversary. Impeachment simply cannot be used as a mechanism to remove a president or settle political disagreements, that responsibility falls squarely on its people regardless of what your party affiliations are!



That you cannot see the similarities with Trump's actions and behaviour as you wrote out about Obama astounds me, and you react in a manner the exact opposite of what you just wrote.

Note I don't care about Obama either, if he fucked up investigate him. Just like Biden. But understand one, does not negate the other. If you don't punish all Presidents equally when they transgress then as I said earlier, you guys just finished nailing the coffin shut....

 

[DawnONight]

From the same Quinnipiac poll

"If the general election for president were being held today, 51 percent of registered voters say they would vote for Joe Biden, while 42 percent say they would vote for President Trump. When Trump is matched against other Democratic contenders the race remains in single digits"

Well Fuzzy; what you don't take into account is the silent majority, polls aren't worth a shit. Even the exit polls in 2016 were wrong!

What Fuzzy1975 also fails to take into account is that this 51/42% figure is nationwide, while that is not how presidential elections work. Presidential elections are actually 50 seperate state election of electors to the Electoral College. The most important line in my post is: "Recent polls in important swing states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan show Trump outpacing 2020 Democrats during impeachment." If Trump wins those three states, he wins reelection.