Is no one "straight"?

[sweetnpetite]

sweetnpetite...

I appreciate your comments...

Taking both an objective and a subjective vantage point, I offer the follow observations...some personal...some just observational:

Most people, I think, tolerate diversity, even to the extent that they may not approve. For example I do not hate black people but I do not appreciate their music, their food, their lifestyles and I know as I have lived and worked with african americans.

Most people, I think, tolerate the 'concept' of homosexuality and lesbianism, as long as it is not shoved in their faces. I am not comfortable with women kissing women and men kissing men in public view, but I could care less what they do in private.

I feel very differently about this. I think that two men or two women kissing or holding hands in public is a beautiful thing. Some people abhore PDA's even when they are straight. I dispise the phrase 'shoved in their faces' in this context. I don't beleive that being affectionate in public or refusing to hide who you are is shoving anything in anyones face. I don't believe that everything that makes people uncomfortable should be removed from public viewing. (ie, homosexual effection, christmas decorations, breastfeeding mothers...) nor do I believe that doing something in public is 'forcing others to accept it' or even to look. Last I heard, most people still have heads that swivel.

But it has not been left at that. Hollywood, and network and cable television has taken on the task of making multi racial and multi sexual lifestyles a 'mainstay' of television entertainment.

If you doubt that, go through the menu of television programs and note how many are promoting the 'gay' lifestyle, black lifestyles, drug culture movies, single parent family lifestyles, seemingly any and everything that challenges the traditional and conventional way of life.

you forgot about the mafia

These divergent lifestyles instead of accepting the tolerance offered are forcing the issue by demanding inclusion into the mainstream and I think this is a terrible mistake.

glad to see we are in disagreement once again.

The tolerance offered, will be withdrawn as the mainstream feels the threat and suppression will follow.

Perhaps it is the way of things that wax and wane with time, but when the time is yours and mine, we are participants, willing or not.

I personally would not restrict the personal choices of any, (within law and reason) to express their personal lifestyles. But when it is in the schools and on the tube and threatens to become the law of the land, affecting all, then I think many will begin to back off and return to less stressful times...


...not that it matters...

it doesn't...

amicus...

...sweet

 

[sweetnpetite]

Shanglan got to you, too, eh?

Shanglan? Who's Shanglan?

 

[amicus]

Yes, I forgot the Mafia, and Sex in the City and Friends and the animated trash that I have never seen...but then, I have never applauded the critical taste of the american public, I rather think it sux...


amicus...

(but so did Monika)

 

[sweetnpetite]

Ayn Rand once postulated that "emotions are automatic responses to previously made value judgements..."

amicus...

Hmm, intesting thought.

I think I may agree again- but will have to think on it...

...sweet

 

[amicus]

Hmmm...Not sure I could survive an agreement from you twice in one year...but I will make an effort...


all the best...


amicus...

 

[sweetnpetite]

I for one, would never accuse you of being a closet case until I'd had a jolly good attempt to find out for sure.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Shanglan? Who's Shanglan?

Ouch.

-- Horse with No Name

 

[sweetnpetite]

Hmmm...Not sure I could survive an agreement from you twice in one year...but I will make an effort...


all the best...


amicus...

What is worse? Agreeing with Amicus or agreeing with Ayn Rynd (sp?)

 

[sweetnpetite]

Ouch.

-- Horse with No Name

Oh no! I didn't mean it that way!



Forgive me?

 

[sweetnpetite]

There's a Wizard of Oz trivia game that I've been dying to purchase, but I have the distinct impression no one I know would play it with me.

I would!

You should buy it and we could have an online game. (somehow) I think it would be fun! (and a good escape from political threads)

 

[BlackShanglan]

What is worse? Agreeing with Amicus or agreeing with Ayn Rynd (sp?)

Ugh. That's like those "would you rather have your leg chopped or, or your arm eaten by a shark" hypotheticals.

Shanglan

 

[BlackShanglan]

Oh no! I didn't mean it that way!



Forgive me?

How could I harbor a grudge against so many kisses?

All is forgiven.

Shanglan

 

[sweetnpetite]

*grin*

It's awfully tempting to change my title thingy to that. Perhaps another day.

Aftermath. Hmmmm. Why does that sound so ... pleasant?

Shanglan

I think you should.

I thought it was quite effing clever

 

[sweetnpetite]

Flowers for Algernon....and a Guy named Joe? the screen play of the book? If memory serves...


Well...sorry, JoeW, looks like you lose center stage and I get to be the bad guy yet once again.

(Amicus searches for black hat and cape)

Luc, you be a curious entity, kudo's for doing the research and the recant.

amicus the incurable...

you're not so bad, tollerable anyway

...when you're sober...

>>>ducks, runs and hides<<<

 

[amicus]

Ayn Rand sold a helluva lot more books than I ever will, but I am honored to place her name before you from time to time.

This woman made an impact on the world, her books are read in every country in the world and she created a new philosophy, Objectivism, which will remain in the annals of history forever.

Her novels are just the tip of the iceberg, some of her articles, on Romantic Love and the Philosophy of Art, and Objectivist Epistemology, her non fiction works will still be read in the 25th century. Can you say that of any author you have met?

amicus...

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Ayn Rand sold a helluva lot more books than I ever will, but I am honored to place her name before you from time to time.

This woman made an impact on the world, her books are read in every country in the world and she created a new philosophy, Objectivism, which will remain in the annals of history forever.

Her novels are just the tip of the iceberg, some of her articles, on Romantic Love and the Philosophy of Art, and Objectivist Epistemology, her non fiction works will still be read in the 25th century. Can you say that of any author you have met?

amicus...

Non-fiction and a person we've met?

Tricky.

Fiction and met: Bradbury without a doubt and Adams maybe.

Non-fiction and haven't met: Dawkins, Darwin, and Gould. They are already pretty streamlined into textbooks and even with a major shift in evolutionary biology thinking they will still likely have a place. Since I hope to meet Dawkins before he completely shuffs his mortal coil perhaps I can meet your requirements.

As far as caring about Rand, sorry no. St. Augustine has a long history of his book being taught and followed too, but I don't much care for it either. In truth, I find fiction often does philosophy better than philosophy does. A sentiment I suspect Rand shared when she chose that medium to express her philosophy.

 

[amicus]

Fiction is or has become a vehicle for many things...I use it in that manner also, but I am very subtle, by the time you realize I am proseletizing, I have you hooked, so do not read my stories, you may be seducted...


amicus...

 

[BlackShanglan]

Ayn Rand sold a helluva lot more books than I ever will, but I am honored to place her name before you from time to time.

This woman made an impact on the world, her books are read in every country in the world and she created a new philosophy ...

Yes, but one might say much the same of L. Ron Hubbard.

... her non fiction works will still be read in the 25th century. Can you say that of any author you have met?

Actually, I can say that about pretty much any author including myself, given the unlikelihood of either of us being able to prove it.

Apologies, amicus - just happen to find Rand insufferable. Now Mill ... ahhh, that's a thinker I can grow old with.

Shanglan

 

[amicus]

I met L. Ron Hubbard, in Honolulu in the 60's, he was a jerk, his writings are a joke, c'mon, get real. Scientology? Christ on a Crutch! Gimmee a break!

John Stuart Mill, at least we can agree on something.

amicus...

 

[BlackShanglan]

I met L. Ron Hubbard, in Honolulu in the 60's, he was a jerk, his writings are a joke, c'mon, get real. Scientology? Christ on a Crutch! Gimmee a break!

The point was not that Scientology is valid - I think it's a load of bollocks - but that the evidence you were citing to support your admiration for Rand was equally true for ... well. The above.

John Stuart Mill, at least we can agree on something.

Delighted!

Shanglan

 

[amicus]

Probably wise to leave it there...but I think few would equate L. Ron Hubbard and his cult following to Ayn Rand, but I can see some choosing to believe that.

amicus...

 

[BlackShanglan]

Probably wise to leave it there...but I think few would equate L. Ron Hubbard and his cult following to Ayn Rand, but I can see some choosing to believe that.

amicus...

I did actually find Rand referenced in an amusing bit of pro-skeptic fluff called "Why People Believe Weird Things." If I recall correctly, the author covered Rand in company with Creationists and Holocaust deniers. That said, he seemed mostly concerned with the organization of Rand's followers and their internal dynamics; didn't touch much on the validity (or lack thereof) of the theories themselves.

Shanglan

 

[amicus]

I gather you have read some of the fiction of Ayn Rand have you read any of her essays or non fiction, they are scholarly and while you may disagree, they are worthy of consideration.


amicus...

 

[BlackShanglan]

I gather you have read some of the fiction of Ayn Rand have you read any of her essays or non fiction, they are scholarly and while you may disagree, they are worthy of consideration.


amicus...

I have not, and from time to time I consider it. I confess, however, to having been so put off by her novels that at the moment I can't face it. Perhaps in another decade or two ... for now, there are too many other works I would rather read.

Shanglan

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Re: YO PEOPLES NEED TO EMBARASS MYSELF!

Originally posted by Lucifer_Carroll
Furthermore, I found quotes pertaining to your treatment of gays in a less-than-human manner as if needing to prove their worthiness as human beings.

I have never treated homosexuals in a less-than-human manner... keep backpeddling.

I am sorry for my misinterpretation which though aided by your habit of always ending up on the anti-gay rights side, was fully and utterly inaccurate and gross slander.

Not always, wrong again.

Furthermore, your position gains more understanding when related to your professed discomfort with gay men. A discomfort which leads you to violently lash out at men who make homoerotic comments about you. Discomfort, however, is not the same as homophobia and thus I owe you once more full and total apologies.

I have a discomfort, however that discomfort doesn't lead me to "violently lash out at men who make homoerotic comments about" me. I have no idea where you're getting that. If you're going to sling shit, back it up.

I hope you will forgive my slander.

I suppose I will when you stop doing it, sure.