"It appears, author, you’ve never been in an incestuous relationship yourself…"

[TadOverdon]

George Lucas has never flown a starfighter in combat and it shows. Man, it shows.

Some of the early Fleming Bond novels are lean and cool and great reads. A thirteen-year-old, as I was when I read them, is not going to catch any of the errors or distortions about spycraft or diplomacy or guns, and I didn't hit any big logical or credibility stoppers.

Everything I write is light and exaggerated fantasy. My own sexual history is as vanilla as it gets.

 

[lovecraft68]

George Lucas has never flown a starfighter in combat and it shows. Man, it shows.

Some of the early Fleming Bond novels are lean and cool and great reads. A thirteen-year-old, as I was when I read them, is not going to catch any of the errors or distortions about spycraft or diplomacy or guns, and I didn't hit any big logical or credibility stoppers.

Everything I write is light and exaggerated fantasy. My own sexual history is as vanilla as it gets.

But Harrison Ford does fly in real life and everyone is danger when he does these days

I was a weird kid who became a weirder adult. Even back at 12 or so I didn't like phony characters who never took a beating, got hurt, couldn't be killed, I think even back then I wanted darker, grittier and less Mary Sue.

That's about the time I stumbled on Murphy and Sapir's Destroyer series much more in my wheelhouse and...they had sex in them and my parents didn't know and were just happy I was reading.

 

[MrPixel]

I doubt thomas harris [silence of the lambs] ate anyone’s liver with a nice chianti, either. still wrote an awesome story though, huh?

I think that's the greater question being posed here - what are you, the author, truly qualified to write about? I think it's a valid point. That qualification can be met by research and study just as much as it can be through experience. If one has neither it tends to stick out, like Ian Fleming's fact-challenged fantasies about James Bond.

Then there's the flip side - because one has the experience or real-world knowledge, are you going to be expected to write about it. F'rinstance, I would never write an I/T story because of my knowing the subject up close and personal; it is rife with painful reminders and tragic realities. Any erotic value in narrating the physical relationship(s) would be overwhelmed by the anger and angst.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think that's the greater question being posed here - what are you, the author, truly qualified to write about? .

I'm on one extreme end of believing that everybody is qualified to write about everything. There's no limit. Write whatever you want to. If you're a 19 year old Amish woman who milks cows in Pennsylvania and you want to write sexy stories about incestuous Ninja warriors in 18th century Japan, go for it.

Shakespeare had no personal experience with almost any of the peoples or places he wrote about. And he produced the greatest poetry and drama in the English language. Imagination and writing skill count far more than personal experience.

For some kinds of stories, doing a little research helps. Not so with Literotica incest. It's a fantasy space. The quality of the story will depend on the way you exercise your imagination, not on how well your story corresponds to what goes on in the real world.

 

[TadOverdon]

I don't know what people are "qualified" to write about. I'd think that varies from person to person. I'm not qualified to write realistic military fiction, because I lack any experience or training or expertise and that's kind of the meaning of "qualified," isn't it?

Anyone has a right to write whatever they like. If you find readers who are willing to buy into what you make up, so much the better. TERF Rowling is not a wizard and I kind of doubt that E.L. James has fucked a billionaire.

 

[windar]

I kind of doubt that E.L. James has fucked a billionaire.

Given how many books she sold, masturbation might qualify.

 

[rescatooor]

I mean technically you are allowed to write whatever you like but certain topics should be handled with extra care and respect. I for one wouldn't feel comfortable depicting minority groups that I know nothing about. Media depictions do matter.

One way of crossing the line, for me at least, is if you wrongly mislead people into thinking that you have some expertise over the topic when you do not. Misleading pen names are an example of this. I would find it extremely unethical to use Middle-Eastern sounding pen name in order to better sell a stories that take place in Qatar, for instance.

 

[KeithD]

I'm on one extreme end of believing that everybody is qualified to write about everything.

Now that we have the Internet, that's much more possible.

 

[lovecraft68]

I mean technically you are allowed to write whatever you like but certain topics should be handled with extra care and respect. I for one wouldn't feel comfortable depicting minority groups that I know nothing about..

Case in point, one meander through the Pink Orchid Event thread convinced me I don't want to be part of it, even though the 'cause' of women's empowerment is important to me, but all I see is guys stumbling around trying to figure out what empowering would be to a woman.

You don't know because you're not one, neither am I despite years of being a woman's rights advocate, I'm still not a woman.

Writing yourself into a female POV for a story is one thing, but to specifically do it in association with a cause and current hotbed topic only comes across as fake, pandering, disingenuous and a cheap way to get extra views or pretend to give a shit.

I know where certain bodies are buried and there's someone in that contest that them writing about female empowerment is the equal to a Klan member writing about racial justice.

There's a line between everyone's right to write, and being tasteless, fraudulent and insulting and I hold myself to that standard as well because there are some things I shouldn't pretend to understand.

 

[Djmac1031]

Case in point, one meander through the Pink Orchid Event thread convinced me I don't want to be part of it, even though the 'cause' of women's empowerment is important to me, but all I see is guys stumbling around trying to figure out what empowering would be to a woman.

You don't know because you're not one, neither am I despite years of being a woman's rights advocate, I'm still not a woman.

Writing yourself into a female POV for a story is one thing, but to specifically do it in association with a cause and current hotbed topic only comes across as fake, pandering, disingenuous and a cheap way to get extra views or pretend to give a shit.

I know where certain bodies are buried and there's someone in that contest that them writing about female empowerment is the equal to a Klan member writing about racial justice.

There's a line between everyone's right to write, and being tasteless, fraudulent and insulting and I hold myself to that standard as well because there are some things I shouldn't pretend to understand.

I've very much been on the fence about writing for that contest for those exact reasons.

Not judging anyone else who chooses to take part of course.

My fear in writing a story like that would be that I'd fall flat on my face, and it would show, terribly, that I really have no idea what TRULY empowers a woman and can only project my male viewpoint.

 

[Comshaw]

Case in point, one meander through the Pink Orchid Event thread convinced me I don't want to be part of it, even though the 'cause' of women's empowerment is important to me, but all I see is guys stumbling around trying to figure out what empowering would be to a woman.

You don't know because you're not one, neither am I despite years of being a woman's rights advocate, I'm still not a woman.

Writing yourself into a female POV for a story is one thing, but to specifically do it in association with a cause and current hotbed topic only comes across as fake, pandering, disingenuous and a cheap way to get extra views or pretend to give a shit.

I know where certain bodies are buried and there's someone in that contest that them writing about female empowerment is the equal to a Klan member writing about racial justice.

There's a line between everyone's right to write, and being tasteless, fraudulent and insulting and I hold myself to that standard as well because there are some things I shouldn't pretend to understand.

I've watched that debate for years, what does "women's empowerment" mean? What I've seen is a hundred different answers. Is a woman who gets into a swinging lifestyle with her husband empowered? Anyone who has ever been a part of that life knows that there are basic rules that put women in charge of how things go: no means no, ask before touching, permission is always required and more. Is that female empowerment on a sexual level?

Personally I think it's pretty simple no matter how complicated others try to make it. My concept: a human being first, a woman second. If a woman is treated as a human being, a person first and foremost, everything else falls into place.

Men and women are different, biologically and in some area's mentally. But the meeting point, the melding point, is the fact we are all humans. I've been around and worked for women that I admired for their intelligence, passion and drive. I've also been around a few I despised because they were backstabbing assholes. Neither of those judgements were made because they were women, but because I liked or dislike the person they were. Judging a person on the sole reason they are female is no different from automatically judging someone because they are of a different ethnicity.

As far as the swinging reference cited above, it is sexually empowering and liberating for women. It always astounds me at the number of men that will view a woman as a loose or a slut for having multiple sex partners, but can do the same and see it as okay. WTF? Another simple concept that i've built into my life that applies here, what's good for the goose, is good for the goosee. I've never been able to muster the hypocrisy to do otherwise.

As far as trying to write a story based on that theme, I don't think I could, or would want to try.


Colmshaw

 

[TadOverdon]

KeithD is right insofar as that there's less reason for guessing at what one doesn't know now that the Internet makes so much knowledge available so quickly and easily. It only takes a minute or two to get at least a high-level description of any activity, to compare that against other versions of the same thing, to read the direct experiences and personal reflections of millions of people (okay, read a couple, but there are anywhere from thousands to millions to select from, depending on the topic)."

You can't jet-ski on the Internet, but you can find a lot of Go-Pro videos of jet-skiing, read blogs and articles by people who do it a lot and people who've just done it for the first time. And if all you need for a story is three sentences about your character's first attempt to jet-ski, with a little imagination you ought to be able to do a credible fake.

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

I mean technically you are allowed to write whatever you like but certain topics should be handled with extra care and respect. I for one wouldn't feel comfortable depicting minority groups that I know nothing about. Media depictions do matter.

One way of crossing the line, for me at least, is if you wrongly mislead people into thinking that you have some expertise over the topic when you do not. Misleading pen names are an example of this. I would find it extremely unethical to use Middle-Eastern sounding pen name in order to better sell a stories that take place in Qatar, for instance.

A colleague of mine recently wrote what professed to be an authoritative analysis concerning an issues she’s expert in, but on a region she literally can’t point to on a map. We had a conversation about it after it was published because I’m the other way around: I specialise in the region, but know nothing about her subject.

It was an interesting discussion on the limits of 'expertise' but I think we both became so entrenched in our positions we didn’t actually learn anything.

When tackling something outside your own comfort zone, I think it’s best to try and avoid tunnel vision, which is where it often goes wrong. Even when someone does a crapload of research, there’s a tendency to zoom in on one thing and one thing only.

 

[windar]

I mean technically you are allowed to write whatever you like but certain topics should be handled with extra care and respect. I for one wouldn't feel comfortable depicting minority groups that I know nothing about. Media depictions do matter.

But if I set a story where there are people of all different groups (like the present day US, or the UK or France or many places these days) and I make all my characters white because I'm white, is that not biased, not to mention unrealistic? And if I portray them all as human beings, then some of every variety will be good and some will be bad and most will be somewhere in-between as most of us are.

Which brings me to something that I haven't seen much discussion of-why is there a category here labelled "Interracial"? Is this 1920s Alabama where there was something sinful and illegal about Blacks and Whites having sex? Frankly, I find the need to say that a Black person and a White person or an Asian or whatever has to be separated out from stories about two white people both dated and ridiculous.

 

[rescatooor]

But if I set a story where there are people of all different groups (like the present day US, or the UK or France or many places these days) and I make all my characters white because I'm white, is that not biased, not to mention unrealistic? And if I portray them all as human beings, then some of every variety will be good and some will be bad and most will be somewhere in-between as most of us are.

Which brings me to something that I haven't seen much discussion of-why is there a category here labelled "Interracial"? Is this 1920s Alabama where there was something sinful and illegal about Blacks and Whites having sex? Frankly, I find the need to say that a Black person and a White person or an Asian or whatever has to be separated out from stories about two white people both dated and ridiculous.

It's tricky, I admit. But there's a difference between inclusion and representing a culture.

Case in point: I have a story from POV of a Maori guy. I'm European Caucasian white woman. But I have known Maori men, and quite liked them. I have engaged with the discourse of good and bad Maori representation to take that into consideration while writing that character. I did not delve into Maori culture so one could almost say that the Maoridom of that character is nearly coincidental. But he is Maori, nonetheless.

It's true that such attempts at inclusion can go terribly wrong. I don't think Stephanie Meyer meant anything bad in including native americans in twilight books. But now, her representation is that tribe is the main stream understanding of that tribe. And it sucks. I would be mad if it was my culture.

The interracial category celebrates racial stereotypes. I like to think you can play with those stereotypes: I have tried to in my only interracial story. If you had a perfectly normal story that does not fetishize a race, I'm not sure it even belongs in that category. The aforementioned story I placed in romance.

It's just as problematic as Incest as category, if you asked me. Both are based on fantasies. Remember how people were pissed off at E.L. James over BDSM representation in 50 shades series? It's kind of the same thing. Sure, real incest is something different but erotica incest is something completely different.

 

[MelissaBaby]

But if I set a story where there are people of all different groups (like the present day US, or the UK or France or many places these days) and I make all my characters white because I'm white, is that not biased, not to mention unrealistic? And if I portray them all as human beings, then some of every variety will be good and some will be bad and most will be somewhere in-between as most of us are.

Which brings me to something that I haven't seen much discussion of-why is there a category here labelled "Interracial"? Is this 1920s Alabama where there was something sinful and illegal about Blacks and Whites having sex? Frankly, I find the need to say that a Black person and a White person or an Asian or whatever has to be separated out from stories about two white people both dated and ridiculous.

Well, there is no needto separate out a story because it contains an interracial relationship. I have written several, and not put any in that category. I'm white, my husband is black, and I don't care to cater to the fetishization of black bodies.

As for writing characters from different backgrounds than my own, I do so with great care. Generally, I do not make them POV characters, although I have done so on a few occasions. It's one thing to write about them, it's another to write as them.

 

[Djmac1031]

Well, there is no needto separate out a story because it contains an interracial relationship. I have written several, and not put any in that category. I'm white, my husband is black, and I don't care to cater to the fetishization of black bodies.

As for writing characters from different backgrounds than my own, I do so with great care. Generally, I do not make them POV characters, although I have done so on a few occasions. It's one thing to write about them, it's another to write as them.

Agreed. I've been working to include more ethnic variety in my stories, recently adding a woman of Filipino decent and an African American woman to one of my series.

Right now both are very much secondary characters although I have been slowly fleshing out one of them.

But my intent isn't to focus on their ethnicity so much as simply develop them as human beings.

If I touch on their ethnicity at all other than a description of their looks it would be to add depth to the character and not to fetishize them.

 

[windar]

Agreed. I've been working to include more ethnic variety in my stories, recently adding a woman of Filipino decent and an African American woman to one of my series.

Right now both are very much secondary characters although I have been slowly fleshing out one of them.

But my intent isn't to focus on their ethnicity so much as simply develop them as human beings.

If I touch on their ethnicity at all other than a description of their looks it would be to add depth to the character and not to fetishize them.

In the story I chose to post here on Lit, the main character is Indian-American (Asian not First Nations). She's a pre-med student and later a doctor and it's a simple fact that Indian-American women are very highly represented in that cohort. I also wanted her to be more innocent than her classmates and having strict Indian parents who are also doctors would do that. But she was born in New Jersey and is culturally upper-middle class American. Frankly, I would have much more in common with her than with a rural non-college white person.

 

[Lifestyle66]

The title refers to a comment I recently received. Now, setting aside the merits of said comment, I was wondering if authors writing for the category (at least those represented here) do have firsthand experiences. I’m guessing not… I don’t think it’s a reach to assume people who’ve been in such relationships may struggle, severely, to write fondly and erotically about their experiences. On the other hand, it might be cathartic for some.

Yes, maybe I’m closed minded, but I think the bad surely outweighs the good when it comes to REAL incest. We kind of cherry-pick the 'pretty bits' and leave the very-very ugly ones out of the stories.

I’ve never been in such a relationship, but I did read up a little to try and give a tiny sense of realism to a story (though I aim for my stories to always be fundamentally silly).

Have you been in or spoken to someone who was involved in such a relationship that then imprinted on your stories? Do you ever try to add a bit of 'realism' to your I/T stories by relying on non-fiction regarding the subject?

I've been with a woman who was 18 or 19 years younger than me, although she was well past being a teenager at the time. It's the imagination which allows us to extrapolate that same relationship, minus a few years for both of us.

And I knew a guy who was charged for statutory rape for being with a girl he picked up in a bar.... "I swear, she looked like she was 18!" Police said she was 13.

So, there are other scenarios to provide some sense of realism.

 

[Athalia]

This is a great conversation about what we as writers feel we are entitled to write about, and not entitled to write about (but do it anyway).

I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, I agree that in the real world, incest is problematic at best and insidious at worst. I speak as an incest survivor here. It created issues that took years of therapy and self-examination to unravel. So when I read about incest in any sort of real-life context, I'm totally with the victim.

On the other hand, I've written about incest a lot, particularly in my "Hot Tub" series, and I portrayed it as totally loving and consensual, with all the parties over eighteen. Nobody's taking advantage of anybody. In this sense, the erotica is kind of like writing science fiction or fantasy, where deviations from normality are seen as commonplace, and the only real rule is that the technology or magic must have internally consistent rules. We take one thing, bend the rules a little bit, follow the new rules, and explore where that leads.

I suppose that what marks my incest fiction is that the characters are constantly concerned about the feeling others in the house have... "Am I doing this for me or for him/her?" "Do I have spouse's/partner's blessing?" "Would it hurt you if I pursued this?" "Can we do this and still respect each other?"

Other writers have taken this further than I have. I admire their ability to keep the subject fresh, when they successfully resist the temptation to succumb to the usual tropes of mother/father getting the hots for daughter/son, or vice versa, or siblings see each other naked for the first time and end up in bed.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And then there is all my Sci-Fi stuff...

I have never commanded a dreadnought spaceship in an intergalactic battle and I think I pulled it off. At least my readers liked it.

I have never led men through a post apocalyptic fight for survival and to win back their country, but I think I did a pretty good job, my readers liked it.

I have never done any of the other stuff I write about(LW,I/T,etc.) but I think I did okay. I got a lot of good comment some people who didn't like my LW stuff, but the other things I write about - except being a cop - I have never done.

And I'm sure that the rest of the authors here have never done any of the things they write about and pulled it off just fine for their readers.

 

[MelissaBaby]

For some reason, my characters keep getting on boats. I don't know diddly squat about boats. I still have to look up which side is port and which side is starboard. And, mind you, I wrote a 36 chapter series about a guy who runs a boatyard.

 

[MelissaBaby]

For some reason, my characters keep getting on boats. I don't know diddly squat about boats. I still have to look up which side is port and which side is starboard. And, mind you, I wrote a 36 chapter series about a guy who runs a boatyard.

Also, someone goes to Dunkin Donuts in almost every story I've written, but THAT I know about.

 

[windar]

And then there is all my Sci-Fi stuff...

I have never commanded at dreadnought spaceship in an intergalactic battle and I think I pulled it off. At least my readers liked it.

I have never led men through a post apocalyptic fight for survival and to win back their country, but I think I did a pretty good job, my readers liked it.

I have never done any of the other stuff I write about(LW,I/T,etc.) but I think a did okay. I got a lot of good comment some people who didn't like my LW stuff, but the other things I write about - except being a cop - I have never done.

And I'm sure that the rest of the authors here have never done any of the things they write about and pulled it off just fine for their readers.

I've never been a cop (or even been arrested by one) but I've co-written a whole series of crime stories, in the mode of "Law and Order/ Law and Order:SVU". One reader on a site where they have run is an actual cop and he loves them and says we got everything pretty accurately. Now I'm wondering if I can deduct my cable subscription as a research expense...

 

[8letters]

For some reason, my characters keep getting on boats. I don't know diddly squat about boats. I still have to look up which side is port and which side is starboard. And, mind you, I wrote a 36 chapter series about a guy who runs a boatyard.

"Port" and "Left" have the same number of letters. That's how I remember