"It appears, author, you’ve never been in an incestuous relationship yourself…"

[MillieDynamite]

That was quite unnecessary.

True. But I enjoyed typing it. Isn't that his point? If it feels good do it?

 

[MillieDynamite]

I've heard your history before, Millie and I'm not unsympathetic to you or your situation. I dont wish to discuss my life experiences here. It remains that you or no one else has the right to judge me or my morals. Calling me a sick fuck is inappropriate to say the least. I havent insulted you nor did I initiate a confrontation with you. I'm sorry you have been the object of abuse. My opinions are my own. I'm not your therapist. I hope you recover enough someday to see that I have rights too.

I'm not judging you. I have poked some fun at you. I can't judge what you have been through and don't want to. I'm well-balanced now, don't often think of the bad ole days. But I don't believe close incest is ever a good thing. No matter how enjoyable it may be. I firmly believe it is wrong.

 

[jehoram]

As a 45-year-old parent, one should be well aware of the harm and taboo associated with incestuous relationships. Regardless of how one rationalizes it, the older person in such a situation is exploiting the vulnerability and lack of experience of the younger person.

By that argument, any May-December romance is suspect, because the younger person will usually not have the experience that the older person has.

In your case, the mother is depriving her son of the opportunity to develop a healthy and fulfilling relationship during a crucial stage of his life. When this disturbing liaison inevitably ends, it will not only shatter the bond between a parent and child, but also inflict long-lasting emotional scars that can impede future relationships.

That would, I think, depend on the nature of the relationship. If it's casual, where the partners are allowed to date others, the mother wouldn't be depriving her son of the possibility of a lasting relationship with another woman.

Let me be clear, as stated by someone else, I have experience with incest. It wasn't wanted, pleasant, or acceptable. The morality of it isn't up for debate. It's rape, even if you are the father, mother, sister, or brother when the other person doesn't want it. If you seduce your own child, it's wrong.

I totally agree. But what if it's the child that's seducing their parent, and the parent doesn't say no? I've written a few stories with that context and, while I'm not saying that it's normal behavior, it seems to be a possible scenario.

I don't wish to walk in your shoes, and you certainly don't want to have walked in mine. Believe me, on this, you don't want to have to happen to you what happened to me.

Like Holliday, I'm sympathetic with your experience. I know a few people who are still struggling with the effects of incest. That's why I'm careful to explain in my stories how the dynamic is different because there is no power disparity and the relationship is totally consensual. I grant that the stories are fantasy, they're part of a world in my head that doesn't resemble the real world very much. And I'd be appalled as anybody if some reader should say, "Well, it seems to work for them, so let's try it out on my darling daughter and see what happens."

 

[holliday1960]

I'm not judging you. I have poked some fun at you. I can't judge what you have been through and don't want to. I'm well-balanced now, don't often think of the bad ole days. But I don't believe close incest is ever a good thing. No matter how enjoyable it may be. I firmly believe it is wrong.

Thank you, Millie for that. It's kind of you to acknowledge that we can agree to disagree on some matters. If I recall correctly, that's where our last conversation concluded. I respect your stand on the matter and again, my apologies if I caused you even an moment of discomfort in the discussion. That wasn't my intention. Stay strong.

 

[LongDraw]

[Discussions promoting and/or accusations involving under-18-year-old sexuality prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

 

[holliday1960]

It's important to distinguish between fiction and reality, and there's no need to feel guilty about writing or exploring fantasies. However, it's crucial to remember that they're not real-life situations.

When it comes to romantic relationships, I believe that any age difference of over twenty years is wrong. The younger person may eventually regret the decision to enter into such a relationship. While romantic love is a vital part of life, it's not everything, and life experience is valuable.

A romantic relationship between a parent and child is never equal, as the child is brought up to love, respect, and obey their parent. If a parent takes advantage of this trust and dependence, they are not deserving of the title of "parent." It's the parent's responsibility to say no, even if it's the child who initiates.

Finally, there's no alternate reality where a long-term romantic relationship between first-degree relatives is acceptable or legitimate.

By 'first degree' do you mean sibs? Or parent/child or both? Just curious.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Yes, and first Cousins, blood relation Aunts, and Uncles (as in sisters and brothers of parents) would be first-degree as well.

By 'first degree' do you mean sibs? Or parent/child or both? Just curious.

 

[djrip]

When it comes to romantic relationships, I believe that any age difference of over twenty years is wrong.

I think the adult participants in the relationship should be the judges of that.

 

[holliday1960]

Thanks, Millie. I was just reading on the legitimacy of such relationships in history. It seems that 1st degree marriages were legal in the U.S. until the mid-1800's... and date back in antiquity laws to as early as the Bible. Roman law changed the legalities apparently and most likely the morality acceptance as well.

 

[lovecraft68]

Ask Millie Dynamite about incest and how it is portrayed here. I'm sure she has a few thoughts on that, not in her adoptive family but in her birth one. It certainly wasn't all hugs, kisses, and fun bump nasty in the night for her. It might be a nice fantasy for some, but not sure the reality is one that many want to be explored here...

Does Millie know you volunteer this for her?

 

[holliday1960]

No. First-degree relatives are only members of the nuclear family: parents and siblings.

But let me be clear that I do not condone any form of incest. While cousin marriage is legal in many countries, I strongly discourage choosing to have children with a potentially problematic genetic pool.

I think your point is the basis for existing laws for the most part, even though they didn't know what genetics was like science does now... fairly apparent that both good and bad traits are preserved in the offspring.

 

[Euphony]

I imagine there probably are some adult consensual incestuous relationships where things turn out OK, just because I tend to think that with human affairs almost everything is at least possible and there's probably an example somewhere of somebody who's done just about everything. I think it's OK to write erotic stories with weird outliers in mind.

This is what I've never understood about the "but the probabilities state" debate.

Aren't we supposed to be writing the stories of the outliers? Isn't that where "compelling and interesting resides?" Who wants to write/read grinded out fiction of a boring John and Jane Doe with their 2.5 kids, paying their mortgage on time and having traditional missionary sex when they can somehow hollow out the time for it?

Christ, if that were my life, the LAST thing I'd want is to stumble on any familiarity in my escapist fiction. How grim.

 

[lovecraft68]

No. First-degree relatives are only members of the nuclear family: parents and siblings.

But let me be clear that I do not condone any form of incest. While cousin marriage is legal in many countries, I strongly discourage choosing to have children with a potentially problematic genetic pool.

There's a lot of reasons this stuff shouldn't happen for real, but the idea that the child of two family members will end up with physical or mental issues is false, it would take multiple generations for that to happen.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is what I've never understood about the "but the probabilities state" debate.

Aren't we supposed to be writing the stories of the outliers? Isn't that where "compelling and interesting resides?" Who wants to write/read grinded out fiction of a boring John and Jane Doe with their 2.5 kids, paying their mortgage on time and having traditional missionary sex when they can somehow hollow out the time for it?

Christ, if that were my life, the LAST thing I'd want is to stumble on any familiarity in my escapist fiction. How grim.

The "let's cling to the statistical norm/mean" position is madding enough, but what's even more vexing and frustrating at an erotic story website is the essentialist, subjective view: "There is no valid perspective other than mine. I have decided that X is bad, so it must be bad in all cases."

And the transparently silly thing about all this is how subjective and hypocritical people are about this. You've got people who write nonconsent stories who think the incest authors and readers are perverts, and the incest authors fans who think noncon authors and readers are perverts. I find the judgment and moralism tedious, in particular because it's not based on anything other than people's own subjective experiences and opinions. One's experiences are valid, but they are no basis for making universal proclamations. Only evidence can do that.

 

[Euphony]

The "let's cling to the statistical norm/mean" position is madding enough, but what's even more vexing and frustrating at an erotic story website is the essentialist, subjective view: "There is no valid perspective other than mine. I have decided that X is bad, so it must be bad in all cases."

And the transparently silly thing about all this is how subjective and hypocritical people are about this. You've got people who write nonconsent stories who think the incest authors and readers are perverts, and the incest authors fans who think noncon authors and readers are perverts. I find the judgment and moralism tedious, in particular because it's not based on anything other than people's own subjective experiences and opinions. One's experiences are valid, but they are no basis for making universal proclamations. Only evidence can do that.

Lest we forget the assumptive relationships raison d'être is procreative only thus invalidating wide swaths of society whose sexual orientation, child less choice, or fertility problems leave them out in the cold.

And the cherry on top is the plentiful that are quick to snap back that THEIR bedroom is THEIR business and thus completely VALID but weigh in condescendingly on any activity that they do not care for.

Hypocrisy and blind defense of one's ego have exploded in the online age.

 

[LongDraw]

The "let's cling to the statistical norm/mean" position is madding enough, but what's even more vexing and frustrating at an erotic story website is the essentialist, subjective view: "There is no valid perspective other than mine. I have decided that X is bad, so it must be bad in all cases."

And the transparently silly thing about all this is how subjective and hypocritical people are about this. You've got people who write nonconsent stories who think the incest authors and readers are perverts, and the incest authors fans who think noncon authors and readers are perverts. I find the judgment and moralism tedious, in particular because it's not based on anything other than people's own subjective experiences and opinions. One's experiences are valid, but they are no basis for making universal proclamations. Only evidence can do that.

Sadly, this site in general appears to be rife with individuals who feel it is their moral imperative to force their beliefs on to everyone else they meet.

Me, I just don't care enough to have the debate lol!

 

[DarkCosmos]

A romantic relationship between a parent and child is never equal.

This! This right here! This sums up the entire problem I have with people taking the concept of an incestuous relationship beyond anything but fantasyland and why I never touch on the subject in any of my writings. I'm not one to judge people on their kinks and fetishes. I'd be a hypocrite if I did.

But as progressive as we try to be in this day and age regarding relationships, exploring your identity, and promoting sex positivity, there are some lines that just simply cannot and should not ever be crossed. And this is definitely one of them. The people like me who keep saying this are not talking out of their asses either; psychologists agree, philosophers agree, doctors agree, everyone who has ever done legitimate and unbiased research on this topic agrees with each other.

Incestuous relationships are not a partnership of equals. And any relationship that is not a partnership of equals is morally reprehensible.
Now with that said, we're human. We all have thoughts. The beauty of writing as a medium is that we can explore these thoughts freely in a healthy and constructive way. But with that freedom comes the responsibility of understanding what is real and what is pure fantasy. Incest in fantasy? Not really my cup of tea, but you do you. I won't judge. Incest in reality? Immoral and wrong. And anyone who tries to convince me or any of the other writers on this site that that's not true is not speaking from a healthy state of mind. You can try and convince me otherwise, but I won't believe you. The evidence is simply insurmountable.

To the original poster of this thread, keep writing whatever crazy incest stories you want to and do not ever feel pressured into adding any measure of realism or drawing from any sort of "source material" when it comes to that particular subject. Make it as fantastical as you want it to be. Because that is a subject that remains purely in fantasyland, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise should not be taken seriously.

 

[Euphony]

The majority opinion among world governments. This makes your kink, which you say isn't a kink, a dangerous habit to explore.

Have you met most world governments? Right bunch of selfish, self centered pricks for the most part. How many instances of "Do as I say, not as I do" do we see weekly, even daily? Beacons of logic based morality they usually aren't. Even in the established, "civilized" societies. Far greater in number are those on the take.

And guess who relationships validated only by procreative ability benefits most? Large organizations like governments and religions (which many societies foundations are based on)

For every kernel of truth left (car inspections/tags/testing keep unsafe, dangerous automobiles/drivers off the road) there's a whole cob full of power generating, profiteering BS. (see how much you pay for said inspections. Or auto shops for accreditation. Or they withhold your ability to get to work in a mostly automobile centric society by denying you stickers for whatever offense they've (sometimes) drummed up.)

Trusting worldwide governments for "logic based morality" is a fools errand.

 

[Euphony]

Incestuous relationships are not a partnership of equals.

In the beginning? Of course not. And children whose parents force them into adult roles early have shown detrimental health and psychological effects.

"Not" is not NEVER.

Maybe we are struggling to come to agreement in terms but MANY GROWN ADULT CHILDREN develop a more peer based, yet still healthy, relationship with their parents. Parenting styles of even the recent past made this far more difficult a prospect b/c parent's egos were so tied up their power over even grown children and their own egos not being able to GTFO of the way when peerage could be appropriate.

MANY (most?) parents still struggle with ego and boundaries. But because it is a difficult adjustment for many to make doesn't mean it doesn't happen or it's rarity means it's clearly unhealthy.

And any relationship that is not a partnership of equals is morally reprehensible.

If people had to prove your relationship was on equal footing or be denied a "relationship permit," I dare say a majority of couples of many religions, nationalities, upbringings, financial situations, etc. would fail miserably.

Why am I the final judge of what is or isn't moral in someone else's relationships in their limited time on this blue ball o' dirt?

I like bacon wrapped shellfish. There are huge numbers of people on this planet that think my snackery makes me the devil incarnate.

 

[SimonDoom]

I like bacon wrapped shellfish.

Shrimp? Scallops? I've never had this but it sounds really good. Maybe if we turn the thread from incest to food it will be more fun.

 

[LongDraw]

Shrimp? Scallops? I've never had this but it sounds really good. Maybe if we turn the thread from incest to food it will be more fun.

Bacon wrapped incest? 8O

 

[Euphony]

Shrimp? Scallops? I've never had this but it sounds really good. Maybe if we turn the thread from incest to food it will be more fun.

I am reticent to tell you b/c I do not believe you can ever truly be peers to scallop and the swine. So sayeth me, the moral majority.

 

[Euphony]

Bacon wrapped incest? 8O

Bacon Bikinied Brother Bonk.

I've already made the HoF and I haven't even written a word yet.

 

[DarkCosmos]

@SimonDoom

If you've never had your shrimp grilled instead of boiled, you're missing out on one of the fundamental experiences of life. Just my thoughts on that. I've said my peace about the other thing.

 

[Euphony]

@SimonDoom

If you've never had your shrimp grilled instead of boiled, you're missing out on one of the fundamental experiences of life. Just my thoughts on that. I've said my peace about the other thing.

If you've never had your shrimp Sous Vide (poaching in its own juices w/little loss) and finished off with a quick grill, you should absolutely experience it.

Aromatics and/or wraps/seasonings in bag as well but go modest your first time out to really taste what a scallop can taste like.