Legalizing and Normalizing Sex Work - A Net Positive or Negative for Society?

[Sappho_CGN]

No ... I think there are signifcant differences between the psychological aspects of sexuality between men and women.

As i wrote above, mens sexuality is more "object-related". They are triggered by physical aspects and need no emotional band for sex (cum granu salis). Most men or at least a majority of men can easily change the sexpartner without a psychological problem. For that, prostitution and also porn are industries aiming on men, not women.

A men puts his tool in something, a woman must spreads legs and is penetrated by somehting. it is put in her body. Sex for woman is for that always a bit more demanding, challenging. She is always a bit to be at the mercy of someone.

To do that with everybody is nothing considerable for most women.

 

[lifeis2short2b]

The worlds oldest profession. I'm sure it can be a benefit for many reason's. But like everything else bad actors will find a way to take advantage.
The 2 biggest obstacles "Not in my back yard" and the religious zealots.
Me personally I'm not against it, I've never paid for sex and wouldn't go. And yes I admit "Not in my backyard"

 

[LMWM321]

Me personally I'm not against it, I've never paid for sex and wouldn't go. And yes I admit "Not in my backyard"

How would you know? Today, massage therapists and Physical Therapists go to peoples' residences to provide services. How would you know if a SW is doing the same?

 

[LMWM321]

Most men or at least a majority of men can easily change the sexpartner without a psychological problem.

Thanks for replying. As to the your comment that men and women are innately different… Far be it for me, a man, to disagree, but I will point out that there are more than a few women here at Literotica who would take issue with that; women who have asserted that if the physical and reputational risks were no greater for women they would have the very same capacity for no-strings-attached sex as men.

Of course the risks are not the same and may never be. But legalizing and normalizing sex work would go a long way to minimizing risks to a woman. So I do think there would be a huge uptick in women’s interest in paying for NSA sex.

 

[Sappho_CGN]

anecdots are no evidence.

My thesis is backed by prostitution itself which is more or less only a branch providing services for for men. It is also backed by porn which is also mainly produced for men. The reason for that is, that male sexuality is strongly focussed on bodys not persons

 

[policywank]

Men and women are different in how we regard many things including sex. But I think that we often conflate differences that result from our environment with innate differences.

Women face much harsher judgment and consequences for engaging in casual sex for primarily physical reasons. Likewise there are very limited viable and practical means for women to pay for sex. So, you can't just look at female behaviour and say well that is all due to innate differences. We are affected by our environment as well.

I have used the analogy before of a bird in a cage in a closed room full of cats. If the bird prefers to remain in the cage in that circumstance, it isn't because it wants to live its life in a cage. It is just prefers the cage to being exposed in a room full of cats. If you take away the cats or take the cage outside and open the door the bird will have a very different response.

Much of what we think we know about female behaviour is rife with confirmation bias and firmly rooted in observations of women subject to the double standard (the cats in the above analogy). One of the most basic premises in any scientific research is the need for a control group. There is no control group of women who do not live with societies double standard, so we can't say with any kind of clarity whether our behaviour is a result of our innate differences or our environment.

What we can observe is that as the restrictions on female sexual activity have eased, female behaviour has changed. Not so long ago we believed that women were inherently more likely to be monogamous, less likely to cheat and when we do cheat it is primarily in search of emotional support. I have read recent studies that debunk all of that. Among younger cohorts there is evidence that women are just as likely to cheat as men, are more inclined to do so for the physical gratification and are more open to the prospect of an open marriage. Likewise as soon as women were not compelled to be dependent upon a man for survival there was distinct uptick in women choosing to remain single or choosing to leave relationships that aren't working.

Men and women are different. One of the ways we are innately different is that the female orgasm is much more complex and elusive than the male orgasm. One of the ways that our environment is different is that while we have greater sexual opportunity that also comes with greater risk of violence or negative judgment. Both of those differences (innate and environmental) could conceivably be reasons why safe and predictable sex workers would have appeal to women.

Would we avail ourselves of those opportunities if an environment existed in which we could do so? Maybe. I don't really know, but I expect that some of us would. What I do strongly believe is that that you can't simply look at female behaviour in a society rife with the double standard and all sorts of negative consequences designed to suppress and control our sexuality and assume that behaviour is all due to innate differences.

 

[lifeis2short2b]

How would you know? Today, massage therapists and Physical Therapists go to peoples' residences to provide services. How would you know if a SW is doing the same?

Your asking about legalizing the sex trade. Not assuming every massage therapist coming to someone' house is a prostitute.

 

[LMWM321]

I have used the analogy before of a bird in a cage in a closed room full of cats. If the bird prefers to remain in the cage in that circumstance, it isn't because it wants to live its life in a cage. It is just prefers the cage to being exposed in a room full of cats. If you take away the cats or take the cage outside and open the door the bird will have a very different response.

All very well said PW.. Thanks again.

And I love the above analogy. As I think about it, I'd like to think of myself as one of the well-mannered cats who understands no means no, but lord knows I've seen my share of cat's who don't.

And even if true that men and women are wired with different preferences, humans have the cognition and free-will to over-ride those preferences. As I've said before, despite our innate fear of heights (we don't fly, we don't bounce and we squish quite easily) the vast majority of modern day humans have NO problem boarding an airplane and zooming for hours at 35,000 feet. All because we've over-ridden our innate fear of heights with evidence-based reasoning.

 

[AprilTwenties]

Sex is ALWAYS gonna happen, boo...It's a social need on so many levels, not least population....and, with that, come prostitution...hand in hand.

As a hooker myself I, obviously, don't think it is something that either the party (the prostitute OR the punter) should be ashamed of. It's essential to some people, not essential to others.

I, myself, would prefer tolerance zones rather than legal as I think, for most girls (...and I can only speak about those 'ladies of the night' rather than boys or trans..) what we want is safety, above all else. Safe to do our job and not worry if we'll get harmed.

Just my thoughts..

A x

 

[NancyPan]

Let me cast my vote FOR the legalization and normalization of sex work. Some of us have kinks that our partners will not accept or indulge. I know that I am lucky that my wife has accepted my need to serve her and some of my other special needs. But there is a huge need for the Pro Domme as there are far more males like me than there seem to be women who allow us to serve.

 

[Auden James]

The reason for that is, that male sexuality is strongly focussed on bodys not persons

So you think that there can be persons without bodies?

 

[MH2024hot]

I think criminalizing consensual adult sex is ridiculous. But I would HIGHLY regulate your average gutter massage parlor and strip club right out of existence. I would only permit quality, luxury and maybe a step down from luxury facilities (take a look at the massage parlors and sex clubs in Toronto). In other words, if you want quality you are going to get it. Even if you don't want quality, you are getting it. Tear down everything else. Watch me as I bring in the bulldozer and the construction crew. I would regulate security, health, fair wages, - all that. In terms of prostitution, same thing. It would need to be highly regulated. I don't care who it impacts, who it shuts down, cry me a river. I'm looking at the overall benefit to society as a whole and I don't want adults living in fear over sexual desire but I do want to crush the criminal element and the ghetto aspect to a lot of these clubs, which I've seen. Also we have to protect anyone underage, no trafficking (which happens but also it gets overplayed by politicians - not every 20 year old babe stripping is a victim a sex trafficking). Also seen some really nice places and not just in Vegas, so it's possible to build these places and make them profitable and a benefit to employees and clientele, so long as the ownership aren't pieces of shit only interested in the bottom line.

 

[policywank]

I think that a legalized system would benefit from ensuring representation of current and former sex trade workers through out the system. Mandate a minimum level of representation on the boards of regulators and oversight bodies. Make experience in the trade a favourable criteria for hiring in much the same way certain experience or eduction is in other fields for policy makers, inspectors, enforcement officers, licensees, etc. I might even mandate that every licensee have at least one former sex trade worker in a management position. And encourage ownership of the actual facilities by sex trade workers through licensing criteria, breaks on fees for facilities with a certain level of ownership and resources to help sex trade workers pool their financial resources and learn about managing a facility and navigating the regulatory framework.

 

[LMWM321]

breaks on fees for facilities with a certain level of ownership and resources to help sex trade workers pool their financial resources and learn about managing a facility and navigating the regulatory framework.

Wow! Well that's a level of legitimizing and normalizing even I had not contemplated. ..But I think it makes great sense. I favor anything which:

• protects sex workers from harm from violent patrons
• Requires law enforcement to regard sexual violence toward a sex worker as no different than a patient who beats up any other health care worker
• legitimizes and celebrates the good that sex workers do; basically elevating the job to par with other kinds of therapy like physical therapy and massage, etc..
• Allows Sex Workers to conduct their business at a patrons home or hotel and not just in Brothels.
• establishes a code-of-conduct intended to minimizes emotional entanglements. To wit: Psychologists, Physical Therapists and Massage Therapists definitely have intimate, though non-sexual, relationships with their clients and are subject to sanctions, including loss of license, if they engage in a personal, physical relationship outside of work. I think the same would have to exist for sex workers. This would be tricky and I can't guess as to its structure, but I think it would be necessary if sex work is to become truly accepted.

As I've said before, it's outrageous that a 6'5" powerful athlete can amuse the world by monetizing his talent for brutality (which can cause broken bones, brain damage, even death) but a woman with a natural talent for sexuality can't monetize her gifts by providing intimacy to a lonely soul who's circumstances has made it too difficult to find a sexual partner. Fucking stupid.

 

[policywank]

Wow! Well that's a level of legitimizing and normalizing even I had not contemplated. ..But I think it makes great sense. I favor anything which:

• protects sex workers from harm from violent patrons
• Requires law enforcement to regard violence toward a sex worker as no different than a patient who beats up any other health care worker
• legitimizes and celebrates the good that sex workers do; basically elevating the job to par with other kinds of therapy like physical therapy and massage, etc..
• Allows Sex Workers to conduct their business at a patrons home or hotel and not just a Brothels.
• establishes a code-of-conduct intended to minimizes emotional entanglements. To wit: Psychologists, Physical Therapists and Massage Therapists definitely have intimate, though non-sexual, relationships with their clients and they are subject to sanctions, including loss of license, if they engage in a personal, physical relationship outside of work. I think the same would have to exist for sex workers. This would be tricky and I can't guess as to its structure, but I think it would be necessary if sex work is to become truly accepted.

As I've said before, it's outrageous that a 6'5" powerful athlete can amuse the world by monetizing his talent for brutality (which can cause broken bones and brain damage) but a woman with a natural talent for sexuality can't monetize her talents by providing intimacy to a lonely soul who's circumstances has made it too difficult to find a sexual partner. Fucking stupid.

I think that often much of the harm that comes to sex workers comes from the people exploiting them. Legalizing it and putting protections in place would be critical to mitigating that exploitation. But empowering them to take control of their own destiny would go along way too. For instance if a brothel was owned by the sex workers that work there the regulator would still have an important role to play, but it could focus more on setting and enforcing regulations and less on protecting the sex workers from their employer and/or patrons. They would (or at least could) be their own employer and as such could make the decisions that best suit their needs.

Bad owners unable to have sex workers as effectively a captive work force would be motivated to clean-up their act forget pushed out of business. With a strong female leader the women would be better able to police themselves in terms of any internal strife. And just imagine if the women who work in the brothel had the authority to hire the biggest, baddest security detail and be the one who signs their pay cheque. That would be the end of patrons ever getting out of line.

 

[LMWM321]

Point taken, but I am referring to a sex worker who consents to one kind of sex but then is forced into another. For example, consenting to vaginal intercourse, then being anally or orally raped, etc. Today, what recourse does a sex worker have other than reporting it to her pimp?

In a world where sex work is legalized, legitimized, and normalized… the sex worker could report the incident to the police and that POS would be arrested and charged with rape. But nowadays, I’m sure lots of those monsters get away with it..

 

[policywank]

Point taken, but I am referring to a sex worker who consents to one kind of sex but then is forced into another. For example, consenting to vaginal intercourse, then being anally or orally raped, etc. Today, what recourse does a sex worker have other than reporting it to her pimp?

In a world where sex work is legalized, legitimized, and normalized… the sex worker could report the incident to the police and that POS would be arrested and charged with rape. But nowadays, I’m sure lots of those monsters get away with it..

We are in agreement. Even if she does report it to her pimp he may take the view that he doesn't care as long as he gets paid. I am sure that lots of sex workers who are beholden to a pimp are also routinely compelled to have sex with men that they would otherwise reject. Having it legalized would give her the latitude to report the offender to the police. And if she was part owner in the establishment or or an independent operator with reasonable protections she would be in a stronger position to ensure security and practices are in place to avoid such incidents.

Even if she has no financial stake the fact that the practice is legalized and normalized means she has options. Many years ago I worked as a stripper at a fairly high end club. It was legal and most of us could have easily gotten employed at another club if we wanted to, so the owner was motivated to keep us happy. If a client misbehaved all I had to do so was call it out to a bouncer and next thing you know the dude's face would be meeting the pavement. The mere fact that guys knew that was usually more than enough to induce them to behave.

 

[JCSTREET]

IMO, the threat to "society" and resistance is that sex workers take the control a spouse has over their partner.

If sex work were legalized, it creates more tensions in households when one spouse denies sex to the other and does so to get what they want. Whether it's to punish the spouse or to act as a reward or incentive to grant some other wish, the marriage vows are often wielded as a weapon by one of them. And a legalized option for the spouse to get it elsewhere takes that weapon away, and costs them as a couple for the price of that outside work.

EDIT: The legal brutality of sports and even gambling or drugs doesn't pose such a threat to the couple, because it's not about the money or cost. That's a secondary impact. It's that loss of power and control over the spouse's "need" for sexual relief that's the greater threat to their marriage.

I don't believe that for a minute - how is the situation any different (for the customer if prostitution is disorganized as opposed to organized). There are many jurisdictions in which prostitution is legal and organized and I think on balance it's beneficial.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I don't believe that for a minute - how is the situation any different (for the customer if prostitution is disorganized as opposed to organized). There are many jurisdictions in which prostitution is legal and organized and I think on balance it's beneficial.

As long as prostitution is illegal in MOST of the country, the social impacts and change of power within a household are local to just those legal areas. The social risks within their job and peer groups of participating and possibly getting caught in an illegal act deters many working-class men from soliciting prostitutes.

You may know that although brothels are legal in Nevada, the city of Las Vegas itself does NOT allow them.

IMO, it's that household power dominance which directs the public oppose legalizing prostitution. Although organized crime also has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

 

[coati]

Based on my observations of ethical sex workers, I believe legalizing and normalizing this profession would be a net positive for society.

In addition to my own associations with sex workers I've met during my lifetime, I recently read a very compelling story in "The Sun" magazine written by a severely disabled man who benefitted significantly from his encounters with a professional sex surrogate.

 

[Cob083]

Reminds me of the old Eddie Murphy skit from Saturday night live Be Somebody Be a Hoe .

 

[LMWM321]

Based on my observations of ethical sex workers, I believe legalizing and normalizing this profession would be a net positive for society.

In addition to my own associations with sex workers I've met during my lifetime, I recently read a very compelling story in "The Sun" magazine written by a severely disabled man who benefitted significantly from his encounters with a professional sex surrogate.

That is very heartening to hear. Now imagine how much easier that would be if Sex Work was Legitimized and Normalized AND if some Sex Workers had specialized training in working w/ people with disabilities or health challenges.

@Lifestyle66, I understand the point you're making. ..That there are many people (and you're implying mostly women) who would not support legalizing and normalizing Sex Work because it would greatly undermine their ability to use sex as a carrot or a cudgel in their marriage. But I disagree. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it must be tolerated in a marriage - which is no different than how things are now. But most people, I believe, will eventually come to understand that there are many lonely people out there - disabled, widows, widowers, etc.. whose lives will become much more bearable by removing the barriers to sex.

And yes, Sex with someone who is being paid will never be as gratifying as sex with someone you love, but most would agree that it's far preferable to no sex at all. Again, sex helps people live longer, healthier, and happier so shouldn't everyone have some degree of access to it?

 

[Lifestyle66]

That is very heartening to hear. Now imagine how much easier that would be if Sex Work was Legitimized and Normalized AND if some Sex Workers had specialized training in working w/ people with disabilities or health challenges.

@Lifestyle66, I understand the point you're making. ..That there are many people (and you're implying mostly women) who feel legalizing and normalizing Sex Work would greatly undermine their ability to use sex as a carrot or a cudgel in their marriage. ..But I disagree. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it must be tolerated in all marriages - indeed, I don't think it would be which is no different than how things are now. But most people, I believe, will eventually come to understand that there are many lonely people out there - disabled, widows, widowers, etc.. whose lives will become much more bearable by removing the barriers to sex.

And yes, Sex with someone who is being paid will never be as gratifying as sex with someone you love, but most would agree that it's far preferable to no sex at all. Again, sex helps people live longer, healthier, and happier so shouldn't everyone have some degree of access to it?

I agree sex should be readily available and accessible to everyone, ... I'm not here arguing AGAINST legalizing the sex trade.

BUT ... I'm showing the reasons why so many others will continue to oppose legalizing it.

The number of wives who depend on sex to control their husbands, endorsing politicians to maintain their control
The organized crime mobs who make money from exploiting illegal sex workers, paying politicians to keep it illegal.
The "MeToo" types of feminist movements now exploiting women to make rape claims for their past quid-pro-quo transactions (long after the fact.)
The moralists who decry extra-marital affairs and denounce swingers (who willingly exchanging sex for free).
The prudes who would ostracize someone from their groups for using or being involved in ANY sex (people can't even TALK about what they do in their own bedrooms without it causing scandals in a community.)

Any substance or service which is greatly desired and sought after, and which is made illegal, is an opportunity for someone to sell at an unregulated price!

 

[LMWM321]

I'm not here arguing AGAINST legalizing the sex trade.

I understand, but I still disagree with your reasons as to why it won't happen...

The number of wives who depend on sex to control their husbands, endorsing politicians to maintain their control

Depressing as that sort of marital dynamic is, legalizing prostitution doesn't change anything. Being married and sleeping with a co-worker or someone in your tennis league is TOTALLY LEGAL but still isn't condoned in most marriages. Legalizing/ normalizing Sex Work would be no different. Women could STILL divorce their husbands over it.

The "MeToo" types of feminist movements now exploiting women to make rape claims for their past quid-pro-quo transactions (long after the fact.)

I'm sorry, but conflating "quid-pro-quo" sex with the Me Too movement, which has shined a light on the persistent scourge of workplace sexual assault and rape is pretty offensive. And it has little bearing on whether or not there would be support for Legalizing Sex Work.

The prudes who would ostracize someone from their groups for using or being involved in ANY sex (people can't even TALK about what they do in their own bedrooms without it causing scandals in a community.)

Ten years ago few politically conservative people would openly admit to smoking pot. These days, because laws have become rather lax, I don't know many politically conservative people WHO DON'T enjoy THC in some way. ..Indeed, I'm pretty much the only in my friend group who doesn't (I hate it - just makes me sleepy or paranoid and anxious). I don't think legalizing Sex Work would be seen much differently. Indeed, when Robert Kraft was caught getting a hand job at a massage parlor, most of my conservative friends - men and women alike - expressed empathy, saying something like, "Geez, let the guy be. Where's the harm? He's a lonely old man..."

 

[Lifestyle66]

I understand, but I still disagree with your reasons as to why it won't happen...

Depressing as that sort of marital dynamic is, legalizing prostitution doesn't change anything. Being married and sleeping with a co-worker or someone in your tennis league is TOTALLY LEGAL but still isn't condoned in most marriages. Legalizing/ normalizing Sex Work would be no different. Women could STILL divorce their husbands over it.

I'm sorry, but conflating "quid-pro-quo" sex with the Me Too movement is pretty offensive and has little bearing on whether or not there would be support for Legalizing Sex Work.

Ten years ago few politically conservative people would openly admit to smoking pot. These days, because laws have become rather lax, I don't know many politically conservative people WHO DON'T enjoy THC in some way. ..Indeed, I'm pretty much the only in my friend group who doesn't (I hate it - just makes me sleepy or paranoid and anxious). I don't think legalizing Sex Work would be seen much differently. Indeed, when Robert Kraft was caught getting a hand at a massage parlor, most of my conservative friends - men and women alike - expressed empathy, saying something like, "Geez, let the guy be. Where's the harm? He's a lonely old man..."

I said I AGREE that sex work SHOULD be legalized.

I'm just trying to point out those arguments which prop up those who will adamantly find it offensive.

There are politicians who smoke pot, admitting to doing so while in college, and they STILL throw others in jail for doing the same thing! And how many divorces would be granted by any judge just because a wife claimed: "He started smoking, and I won't tolerate it!" Smoking is legal. The judge would just remand them to marriage counseling and insist she stop wasting his time in court.

As for the MeToo movement, I find it offensive that some of those accusers admit to voluntarily going to a man's hotel room and committing a sex act, then decades later claimed they felt intimidated, like they HAD to do it. GIVE ME A BREAK! If she knows the guy is NOT a casting director asking her there to a scheduled audition with a line of other actors, then she goes there knowingly to leverage one man's influence to put her on the short list of a casting director's choice for the part in a movie! "You like me, so make sure he picks me!" THAT is prostitution in a currently legal manner merely because there's no exchange of money. I find it offensive the social judges are now conflating such incidents to undermine REAL rape victims who were grabbed and physically forced against their will! One now decades later might feel ashamed for what they did, while the other continues to suffer from nightmares.

Quid pro quo sex IS prostitution by a different name, just without the exchange of money and therefore legal. One party puts a barter value on the sex act, and the other party pays it. How many "dates" end in either a handshake or sex, depending on the value of the earlier date experience? How many would invite the other into bed after a dinner at an expensive restaurant, versus merely shaking hands and send the same partner on their way after a meal at McDonalds?

Legalizing sex work merely places a dollar value on that which is already being bartered. BUT by legalizing that monetary exchange, it becomes a contract to provide the service when the money is paid. And those who say it's the woman's body and her rules still hate the idea of her being required to service the man. Those "fighting for women's rights" oppose sex work as demeaning to all women.

That man in the hotel room should happily GIVE the aspiring actress his assistance in getting the movie role ... without sex, ... because she's so obviously more talented that any others the casting director had seen???

So, there are other factors which continue to block it from being legalized. I reduce those other factors against legalization to being:
1. control (either the wife controlling her husband or women's rights advocates/politicians controlling all women)
and 2. criminal profiteering.