Legalizing and Normalizing Sex Work - A Net Positive or Negative for Society?

[LMWM321]

As for the MeToo movement, I find it offensive that some of those accusers admit to voluntarily going to a man's hotel room and committing a sex act, then decades later claimed they felt intimidated, like they HAD to do it. GIVE ME A BREAK!

You seem to be talking about the film industry. So who are "some"? Who are these actresses who have admitted to going to the hotel room of a producer, director, casting mgr, etc.. and willingly committed a sexual act with them only to later recount it as rape or sexual assault? Who has said this?

And what about the countless others who are not in the film industry who have said they were propositioned or outright assaulted right in their own office?? Are they liars too?

Not sure we'll see eye-to-eye on this, but at least we agree Sex Work should be legal.

 

[Lifestyle66]

You seem to be talking about the film industry. So who are "some"? Who are these actresses who have admitted to going to the hotel room of a producer, director, casting mgr, etc.. and willingly committed a sexual act with them only to later recount it as rape or sexual assault? Who has said this?

And what about the countless others who are not in the film industry who have said they were propositioned or outright assaulted right in their own office?? Are they liars too?

Not sure we'll see eye-to-eye on this, but at least we agree Sex Work should be legal.

As the most obvious example, just read through the list of 87 accusers of Harvey Weinstein, published in 2017 in USATODAY. How many of those were "young actresses in a hotel room with a naked man" or him just wearing a bathrobe. Now what young girl GOES to a man's hotel room alone?

I find it incredible that years after the fact, these were just innocent young girls ...
going to a movie producer's hotel room alone, ...
note: not a casting director in a general competitive call for auditions, but the producer ...

That's the barter system for sex, in action. Only the truly ignorant believe otherwise. The only problem is that the ones who can do it have the power and influence to trade. What we hear are the stories of those who rejected the offers. The ones who accepted the trade are the ones who got the starring roles (although most won't admit it.)

But think about it: If sex trade were legalized, normalized, and socially acceptable, those women would have to put a competitive dollar price on their sex acts. And it would no longer be worth a starring role in a movie!

Normalizing sex trade would be upsetting a very lucrative trade for those getting ahead with it now! People like Harvey Weinstein could call the hotel Concierge Desk and have them send up a willing woman for a competitive price (conveniently charged to their hotel room bill). So those now getting what they want with sex will oppose legalizing it. (EDIT: And those with the money and power, have the money to pay, keeping it illegal for their lucrative trades!)

EDIT 2: I just thought of a different dynamic that would be destroyed. If sex work were legalized and NORMALIZED,
Guy 1 is talking to another, saying "I just fucked your wife, cuckold!"
Guy 2 says; "I know, dipshit. I needed her busy, while your wife paid me $50 to fuck her in the ass! Thanks for doing my wife for free!"

It's all about power, control, and MONEY!

 

[LMWM321]

As the most obvious example, just read through the list of 87 accusers of Harvey Weinstein, published in 2017 in USATODAY. How many of those were "young actresses in a hotel room with a naked man" or him just wearing a bathrobe. Now what young girl GOES to a man's hotel room alone?

My recollection is that many victims recounted similar stories - that they felt comfortable going to his room because the meeting was arranged by a staff member who told her that Mr. Weinstein conducts business from a large Hotel Suite when he travels - ie., it's not just a room with a bed. This seems VERY plausible to me; indeed, I know many business executives who do the same. And knowing he was a prominent, successful and extremely busy Hollywood Executive many presumed he would have staff with him in his suite. ..And most recounted him inviting them into the room fully clothed, then excusing himself and re-emerging in a robe. And once he did, he's a big, heavy-set fucker who could easily overpower most women. All of this seems VERY plausible to me. Remember, this isn't one woman making this claim, it was many and their stories were all very similar.

So, unlike you, all of my ire is aimed at Weinstein, not his accusers. That POS should be castrated. 20-30 years at Riker's Island is too kind. ..If he did that to one of my daughters or nieces I'd trade my freedom for the opportunity to beat him to near death with a bat.

As for your comments about how legalizing, normalizing Sex Work would threaten a highly lucrative illegal trade. ..Well, I'm not persuaded by your argument. As I said, prostitution is far less profitable to crime organizations than Marijuana, and look what's happened there. On my way home from work I pass FOUR dispensaries, all operating legally. EDIT: And the people walking out of them don't look like long-haired potheads of the 70's and 80's, they look like average everyday people from all income strata and all walks of life.

And as to your comments about Guy 1 and Guy 2... Well, I'm totally confused by them.

 

[Lifestyle66]

And as to your comments about Guy 1 and Guy 2... Well, I'm totally confused by them.

If sex work is legalized, ... then that applies to women hiring male "escorts" for a fling.

I read the Loving Wives stories and comments. Are you aware of how many MEN are opposed to their wives have extra-marital sex and berate those men sharing their wives? They call those men who share "Cuckolds."

If sex work were legalized, then a guy might come home from work to find his wife had just paid a man to fuck her, making him a cuckold.

We all know extra-marital sex happens. But it would be legal and easily happening more often. Maybe that would be the NEW power exchange, with the wives getting fucked by male prostitutes as a "fuck you!" when getting mad at her husband over something else. And would family court judges view it as infidelity if she's getting legally fucked? Could the husband file for divorce in such a case?

As I said, I'm all for legalizing sex work. But there are so many other dynamics which would change.

This is why I write some of my stories, to explore and force myself to think through those possible details.

 

[LMWM321]

If sex work were legalized, then a guy might come home from work to find his wife had just paid a man to fuck her, making him a cuckold.

I get your point but that can happen now WITHOUT payment. And again, just because Sex Work is legal it doesn't mean it has to be permitted in a marriage.

So I don't think most men would oppose it for that reason. My hope is most men would see the good it could do for all the lonely people out there - like widows, widowers, disabled people, people who haven't been able to find a partner, etc... And maybe even themselves one day should they find themselves alone.

 

[policywank]

I agree sex should be readily available and accessible to everyone, ... I'm not here arguing AGAINST legalizing the sex trade.

BUT ... I'm showing the reasons why so many others will continue to oppose legalizing it.

The number of wives who depend on sex to control their husbands, endorsing politicians to maintain their control
The organized crime mobs who make money from exploiting illegal sex workers, paying politicians to keep it illegal.
The "MeToo" types of feminist movements now exploiting women to make rape claims for their past quid-pro-quo transactions (long after the fact.)
The moralists who decry extra-marital affairs and denounce swingers (who willingly exchanging sex for free).
The prudes who would ostracize someone from their groups for using or being involved in ANY sex (people can't even TALK about what they do in their own bedrooms without it causing scandals in a community.)

Any substance or service which is greatly desired and sought after, and which is made illegal, is an opportunity for someone to sell at an unregulated price!

It is interesting that the last two of those reasons are effectively people sticking their nose into other people's business for arguably no purpose aside from imposing their will on other people. And the first two are people clearly seeking to control others for their own benefit. Arguably accurate but terrible reasons to resist legalizing.

I don't really see how the "MeToo" types fit into this per se. But I do see how they are a subset of feminists who simply cannot see past prostitution as exploitation of women. While I don't agree with them I can at least see some logic in that they are looking at the potential for harm and saying therefore it should be banned. But that is the same flawed logic that would have us ban anything harmful, because it takes away personal choice unjustifiably and it simply drives the activity into the shadows, which makes it worse rather than eliminating it.

I think you do have to be careful with the premise that past quid-pro-quo transactions were a "fair" trade in the sense that nobody was acting under duress. In some cases there were legitimate power imbalances or abuses of positions of authority. The problem with the MeToo movement is that they have made it essentially forbidden to even consider context or circumstances and they have adopted this silly mantra of believe women (as if all men are pigs and no woman would ever lie or misrepresent). I think that they have done this because rape trials in the past were often polluted by aggressive defence lawyers engaging in all kinds of dirty tricks to create doubt. But dispensing with the innocent until proven guilty premise or trying to get people cancelled based upon an accusation is not the answer.
I have had sex with past bosses. For the most part it was just consensual sex. And sometimes gaining favour may have played a small part. To the extent that the latter put any other employee at a disadvantage I am as guilty of an ethical lapse as anybody. And it is patently ridiculous that I should be able to claim sexual assault after the fact simply because there was a power imbalance in the men's favour. It is similar to the concept behind a conflict of interest. A conflict of interest exists when the potential exists for a person to use their position to benefit themselves unfairly - it doesn't mean they did so, just that the circumstances exist wherein they could.

As for women using sex to control their husbands (or vice versa), I find that particularly appalling. It is a bit like how women lobbied to bring in prohibition to keep their husbands from drinking. How they feel about their partner's activities and whether or not they are damaging is entirely beside the point. Resolving those issues is not the state's role. It is like a woman going to the bartender or the prostitute and saying please don't serve my husband anymore - uh, no you deal with your marriage it isn't up to them to deny someone's else's free will to satisfy her need to control him.

 

[LMWM321]

@policywank Once again a great contribution.

If Sex Work becomes legalized, I do think Sex Workers will be safer, but far from completely safe.

Sure, a licensed Sex Worker may feel confident she'll be taken seriously by the cops if a John beats her and blackens her eye, or anally rapes her causing an injury visible to a doctor. ..But what about other forms of assault that does not leave a mark - like a guy who, without asking and paying, sticks a finger in her ass or cums in her mouth as he holds her head down? ..Would she feel still feel confident that calling the cops would be worthwhile in those cases? Probably not, so, sadly, she'd have little choice but to let such behavior pass. And the more this happens without consequence the more future Johns would believe they have wide latitude to take more than what was initially bargained for.

At least with sex work being illegal, those Sex Workers who have Pimps MIGHT (def. not a guarantee) be able to sic him on the piece-of-shit to beat the piss out him. .And since the John was doing something illegal, he'd probably be disinclined to call the cops in retaliation.

But if legalized, her only recourse might be to give the guy a poor customer rating, which is hardly justice.

Any thoughts on how this could be mitigated?

 

[forgotmyantidepressants]

It is a bit like how women lobbied to bring in prohibition to keep their husbands from drinking.

I'd really like to point out that many women joined the temperance movement because at the onset of the industrial revolution, women were encouraged to stay at home so all the factory jobs would go to the men. Wages were paid daily. Often times, a man would take his wage and drink it up. He then went home to his wife, drunk and penniless.

When his wife asked him, "What am I'm supposed to feed our children with?" He beat her. And no one cared. She didn't work, so she couldn't leave.

Women jumped on the prohibition bandwagon because they were suffering abuse and violence at the hands of drunkards.

The problem with the MeToo movement is that they have made it essentially forbidden to even consider context or circumstances and they have adopted this silly mantra of believe women (as if all men are pigs and no woman would ever lie or misrepresent)

Not all men are pigs, but the ones who are are fucking swine

 

[policywank]

I'd really like to point out that many women joined the temperance movement because at the onset of the industrial revolution, women were encouraged to stay at home so all the factory jobs would go to the men. Wages were paid daily. Often times, a man would take his wage and drink it up. He then went home to his wife, drunk and penniless.

When his wife asked him, "What am I'm supposed to feed our children with?" He beat her. And no one cared. She didn't work, so she couldn't leave.

Women jumped on the prohibition bandwagon because they were suffering abuse and violence at the hands of drunkards.



Not all men are pigs, but the ones who are are fucking swine

Yes they were different times. Many things needed to be changed. But history shows that simply making booze unavailable was not a good solution.

 

[forgotmyantidepressants]

Yes they were different times. Many things needed to be changed. But history shows that simply making booze unavailable was not a good solution.

That's not what I'm arguing. I'm pointing out that's unfair to say that women were trying to control men when they advocated for prohibition. They were trying to protect themselves (and probably their children).

FWIW, I think sex work should be 100% legal if the state is willing to step up and protect the sex workers.

 

[KatieDoes]

@policywank Once again a great contribution.

If Sex Work becomes legalized, I do think Sex Workers will be safer, but far from completely safe.

Sure, a licensed Sex Worker may feel confident she'll be taken seriously by the cops if a John beats her and blackens her eye, or anally rapes her causing an injury visible to a doctor. ..But what about lesser offenses like a guy who, without asking and paying, sticks a finger in her ass or cums in her mouth as he holds her head down? ..Would she feel still feel confident that calling the cops would be worthwhile? Probably not, so, sadly, she'd have little choice but to let such behavior pass. And the more this happens without consequence the more future Johns would believe they have wide latitude to take more than what was initially bargained for.

At least with sex work being illegal, those Sex Workers who have Pimps MIGHT (def. not a guarantee) be able to sic him on the piece-of-shit to beat the piss out him. .And since the John was doing something illegal, he'd probably be disinclined to call the cops in retaliation.

But if legalized, her only recourse might be to give the guy a poor customer rating, which is hardly justice.

Any thoughts on how this could be mitigated?

Legalization would help protect sex workers from being raped by law enforcement officers, though. Obviously, it’s difficult to get accurate stats on this, but I’ve seen between 75%-85% of all sex workers have been sexually assaulted by police officers who use their ability to arrest them as coercion.

 

[forgotmyantidepressants]

75%-85% of all sex workers have been sexually assaulted by police officers who use their ability to arrest them as coercion

That's horrific.

 

[KatieDoes]

That's horrific.

It just became illegal in 2022 for federal officers to have sex with someone they had detained, and it’s still legal for at least 30 states. As long as the officer claims that it was consensual, it’s perfectly legal for them to coerce anyone in their custody to perform sex acts.

 

[LMWM321]

it’s perfectly legal for them to coerce anyone in their custody to perform sex acts.

I had no idea. ...Just horrible. Hopefully the legalizing and normalizing of sex work would help - but it's unlikely to completely eliminate sexual assault from cops.

 

[KatieDoes]

I had no idea. ...Just horrible. Hopefully the legalizing and normalizing of sex work would help - but it's unlikely to completely eliminate sexual assault from cops.

Yeah, cops are gonna cop… but legalization would reduce some of the leverage that they use for coercion.