Lesbians! Yum

[CharleyH]

One word? Intimacy.

I suppose I am not a lesbian, then?

 

[cloudy]

I suppose I am not a lesbian, then?

Charley, o beloved of squirrels, I would hesitate to try to label you.

 

[CharleyH]

There is a market for dykes. And a market for women. the thing is, neither market is as strong as the market for males and both are selective.

You have to look at it from a standpoint of economics. It will cost you about the same to produce something geared to dykes as it will something geared to guys. The number of guys who watch/buy porn is fairly high, and, in a feature movie, with a good mix, you can probably have at least one to two scenes that appeal to most any generic consumer.

If you gear it to dkyes, the action is of neccissity all girl, and depending on the dyke in question, you may still miss her particular turn on.

Basically, for the same outlay, you can shoot for guys, which only really takes a splattergun aproach as the target is solarge.

Women, whih requires a very refined idea of the demor graphic to achieve success.

Or dykes, a subset of women, with an even more refined demographic to try and hit.

You are, with each refinement, culling the size of you potential audience, while having to invest more in knowing that niche audiences preferences. At some point, it becomes uneconomical, unless you already know the niche audience and it's preeferences and can tailor something to that preference with a substantial chance of being on target.

Or you can produce a generic, geared to guys porno, and hoipe you pick up some of the niche audience too.

To my mind, the obligatory lesbian scene in each film isn't geared to picking up lesbians at all, it's gared to making sure you cover as many angles as possible to get the male audience who, in general, is going to be your bread and butter due simply to size. Films geared towards women or dykes, will enjoy a much narrower crossover to generic male interests.

Short of a few outfits and producers, with a record of hitting the right vibe for women or lesbians, most of the big outfits won't take a chance on something that may miss everyone and flop.

I hear you, Colly To a degree.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

It's the soft feminine flesh and skin, variety, and quantity for me. Especially if I have a reason to believe that the girls are at least bi and not just acting.

I'll second a couple of things that Rob said, though. If they are flawless, physically or otherwise, then it does little for me. It's like fantasizing about a statue. Aesthetically pleasing, but too two-dimensional and contrived to be enjoyable or thrilling. Flawed, flesh-and-blood human beings with lusts, needs, issues, fetishes, either liking, hating, loving, or just really hungering for each other is much better. I have long since abandoned any attempt to make my characters moral paragons by anyone's standard of ethics and values. Or physically "superior", as if there is such a thing.

Give me an eccentric Goth chick topping a somewhat plump and neurotic divorcee and soccer mom frustrated and unsure of herself since the end of her marriage, any day. Oooh, that would be great for the Story Ideas Board.

Just using a literary analogy, because all the porn that I produce and create is literary. So it's what I am most familiar with. Not that I am opposed to lesbo porn flicks for a simple session with my right hand. But it's a less intense turn-on that way. People I create and read about are the most satisfying, since they seem more intense and imaginative, while also more disturbed. Also more dangerous and less predictable. And there is nothing like the God-like power of creating people that never were but for you. A total power trip.

Don't forget what Nietzsche said about men, "A real man craves both danger and play, therefore he desires woman as the most dangerous plaything."

There is a lot more danger in written than cinematic porn. A lot more actual play too.

So, yes, we men do like straight-up girl-on-girl. But there is something to a medium that's less safe and predictable.

Oops, couple of corrections and clarifications to my own post. First, the Nietzsche quote read "craves two things: danger and play..."

2nd, there is actually plenty of play in visual porn, cum to think of it. Otherwise, we men wouldn't enjoy it. I enjoy it myself. However, I have found that more flawed or unusual or eccentric or exotic actresses often excite me more than ones that fit the
standard requirements and expectations. Particularly if they seem like they really enjoy doing each other, not just for pay. Just like a hooker is more fun if she enjoys her work.

3rd. That quote is not meant to imply that gays are not real men. I have known a few gay men who are every bit as manly as any straight or bi guy. Besides, that was Nietzsche I quoted. He was only right half of the time.

Just thought I would clarify that. And that I wouldn't turn a girl down for being "statuesque". For one thing, I am sure that she will have issues and other things that will animate her. At least I hope so. For me, a wide variety is the ideal.

I like them all.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

I wouldn't know. I've never seen any lesbian porn.

 

[3113]

I think the reason men like lesbian porn is pretty simple--they get to see two naked women instead of one (or as many naked women as are engaging in the lesbian sex).

Men are very visual. And they like to look at naked women. And they like to look at the intimate bits of naked women. So, two naked women jiggling each other breasts, perking each other's nipples, fingering each others naughty bits, spreading each others legs and ass cracks....

Double the pleasure of seeing all those naughty bits. And no guy in there to interfere with that pleasure. Why would a nice Hetero guy want to look at a naked man when he could look at a second naked woman?

er...does that anwer the question?

As for straight women, they identify much more with the people they see on screen. More empathy. So if a woman on screen is getting off, then the viewing female gets off no matter if she's being made love to by a male or a female. But in the end, porn movies aren't really for women. Women are more into reading porn than watching it--which is why romance novels (read overwhelmingly by women) have such racy and sexual explicit scenes in them.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

My problem with any commercial porn is that the emphasis on seeing the most clinical version of sex is the top priority. I must say that while I really enjoy going down on a woman, I almost always have my eyes closed. I find very little, if any, joy from watching a woman's tongue hitting another woman's clit. If they wanted to turn me on, they'd pan up to the recipient's face and turn up the volume on the sounds she was making. That's what gets me off. I'm much more sold on the reaction of the recipient than the action of the giver.

Additionally, if there is a man present, it doesn't constitute lesbian porn to me.

 

[neonlyte]

I suppose I am not a lesbian, then?

Now that would be telling

I can only judge you through your writing and you couldn't write as you do without enjoying and knowing the intimacy of others, and yourself. The intimacy you share (through your writing) is broad and sweet, perceptive and sometimes cruel. I suspect you could be what ever you need to be according to the need of the other with you and in you. Does that make you a Lesbian? Or maybe we coin a new word, a gendershifter. Difficult for me to say without knowing you, and that's dangerous ground - knowledge is power.

 

[BlackSnake]

I was thinking what do straight chicks and dudes like about LESBIAN PORN?

Two girls instead of one...duh

 

[Boxlicker101]

In terms of FF movies compared to MF movies, what I like in the FF types is that they show eating pussy so much better. In the straight movies, if they include it at all, they just rush through it. In the lesbian movies, they take a long time and show it from different angles and in closeups.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

My problem with any commercial porn is that the emphasis on seeing the most clinical version of sex is the top priority. I must say that while I really enjoy going down on a woman, I almost always have my eyes closed. I find very little, if any, joy from watching a woman's tongue hitting another woman's clit. If they wanted to turn me on, they'd pan up to the recipient's face and turn up the volume on the sounds she was making. That's what gets me off. I'm much more sold on the reaction of the recipient than the action of the giver.

Additionally, if there is a man present, it doesn't constitute lesbian porn to me.

Wholly agree there, The view of the recipeients face and her reactions are infinetly more erotic than close ups of the giver's techique.

 

[Stella_Omega]

People used to want to show me "lesbian action" films and magazines all the time, and I was bored by most of them, and repulsed by many of them. It wasn't untill the 90's and the indipendant mag movement, that dyke porn really became erotic.
Photos taken by dykes, of dykes- real women, some of whom haunt my memory still. The sex pictures were hot, the writing was direct.
And, I would bet you that the same pictures would turn a lot of men on too- especially the guys here, who don't seem to care much about the old "Playboy Bunny" model.

As far as current film go, I really wouldn't know, I have no oppertunity to see them at this time. But I've met a handful of starlets recently, and they all looked sexy to me- probably because they were wearing sloppy clothes and no makeup. The foofy hair was mostly pulled back in sweaty ponytails, and those sculpted bodies were working hard- gardening at a freind's house. That's what I call eye candy!

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

The what is a real lesbian question I think was interesting. What is a "real" lesbian? I would argue that it is any woman who is exclusively attracted to women. That would be a lesbian. And that worldview wouldn't say that bisexuals shouldn't participate in girl-girl love because they also love dick, because they can't help what they are attracted to.

However, I've seen various stuff and that's not what everyone would say. I've read a bit of the staunchly lesbian comics and books like Dykes to Watch out For and Hothead Paisan and On Our Books and whatnot and they often paint a dynamic of lesbianism which requires certain dress and certain politics and often also butch/femme dynamics. Sure many are sympathetic to other forms, but there seems to be a bit of bad blood towards two women just being women who fuck or are turned on by women or bisexuals and all that jazz.

And on the other side, there's men and much of mainstream porno which says two lesbians are either two thin, heavily-chested femmes who are, ideally, bisexual or else two boot-wearing man-hating dykes and occassionally the butch-femme split. This in porno is often done with two thin models but one having a shorter haircut and always using a strap-on.

It's because of all the misinformation, the easy classifications, and the shortcuts. The avenues in which GLBTA and PFLAG organizations try and fight every year.

Eh, I am just on a ramble here. The point is that the two femmes rolling around on the internet site licking and dildoing each other are lesbians or bisexuals and either way are engaging in lesbo-play. So are the two butches, donning boots, swaying in each others arms at the night club who are fisting each other in the bathroom for a bit of thrill. Ditto for the staunch top butch, bottom femme pair who are playing with nipple chains. And same for the two random girls who are kissing and rubbing a little in a secluded part of the park. It's all lesbian sex and what turns on who and why is a matter of preference. Some guys may want to be the meat in the tit sandwich, others may be turned off by man-parts and find their absence more sexually exciting, or it may just be twice the women, or maybe it just turns them on in the way that bondage or whatnot happen to turn people on. And each man has their fetish to what is the most exciting porn cocktail, same as any woman and that includes the dykes.

What makes some girls so into yaoi? What magical formula in a porno would turn on the dykes and the video-purchasing males? What makes me so interested in the boring side of lesbian life and fiction? Who knows? I have sand in my shorts and I have lost my point. Point my towards the penguin, I must be on my way.

 

[rgraham666]

If they wanted to turn me on, they'd pan up to the recipient's face and turn up the volume on the sounds she was making. That's what gets me off. I'm much more sold on the reaction of the recipient than the action of the giver.

That's what turns me on as well.

Let's face it, the most intimate part of the anatomy does little in the way of showing emotion. A woman's face is where you can really see what's going on.

And most visual porn, straight or gay, tends to focus on the act rather than the emotions. Which is why I find it so boring.

 

[kendo1]

So, you are saying there is NO market for dykes or girls? It's just all male vanity?

That's not what I said.

Mainstream lesbian porn is aimed at the male audience, and presumably what they prefer.

Lesbian porn for lesbians is more of a niche market.
(There are, afterall, less lesbians than there are men in the world.)
From what I hear, lesbians/dykes whatever, lesbian porn is different - more about relationships/touching than 'mainstream'.

Each to their own.

Ken

 

[kendo1]

I think the reason men like lesbian porn is pretty simple--they get to see two naked women instead of one (or as many naked women as are engaging in the lesbian sex).

Men are very visual. And they like to look at naked women. And they like to look at the intimate bits of naked women. So, two naked women jiggling each other breasts, perking each other's nipples, fingering each others naughty bits, spreading each others legs and ass cracks....

Double the pleasure of seeing all those naughty bits. And no guy in there to interfere with that pleasure. Why would a nice Hetero guy want to look at a naked man when he could look at a second naked woman?

er...does that anwer the question?

As for straight women, they identify much more with the people they see on screen. More empathy. So if a woman on screen is getting off, then the viewing female gets off no matter if she's being made love to by a male or a female. But in the end, porn movies aren't really for women. Women are more into reading porn than watching it--which is why romance novels (read overwhelmingly by women) have such racy and sexual explicit scenes in them.

Uncanny!
I think you're right, certainly for me.

Men are aroused by sight, women by emotions.
Generalisation, I know, but possibly true.

 

[scheherazade_79]

*Sigh*

I've pretty much given up on lesbian porn. The big hairstyles, the inflated breasts, the unmemorable muzak and the wafer-thin storylines that serve as an explanation for the sex...

Most of it is created by guys for guys, and I'm afraid it leaves me cold.

For the record I don't think much of straight porn, either. But that probably has something to do with the fact that I think guys look better with their clothes on.

 

[Boxlicker101]

*Sigh*

I've pretty much given up on lesbian porn. The big hairstyles, the inflated breasts, the unmemorable muzak and the wafer-thin storylines that serve as an explanation for the sex...

Most of it is created by guys for guys, and I'm afraid it leaves me cold.

For the record I don't think much of straight porn, either. But that probably has something to do with the fact that I think guys look better with their clothes on.

You are probably right about lesbian porn being made for men. You can say the same thing about almost all porn, which explains the giant breasts and cocks. It's just stroke material and is not intended to be realistic. There's no story line to speak of, because it would just get in the way, and there's hardly any dialogue to memorize. This is necessary because the "actors", male and female, usually have no talent. The idea is to crank out the film as quickly as possible, usually with no rehearsals.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Wholly agree there, The view of the recipeients face and her reactions are infinetly more erotic than close ups of the giver's techique.

Well, that DOES give a better indication of whether the technique is effective....so I can understand that to a certain extent.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Two girls instead of one...duh

That's the essence of it for most men, including me. Trust BS to shoot past the other issues and go straight to the heart of it.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Truth be told, I'm not that picky about porn. Only a few things turn me off, and I've already mentioned. Not even femdom turns me off, if done in a lesbian context. Depending on the quality and the heat of the story, I might even get off on one of the films and mags that Stella mentioned. I'm very eclectic.

 

[kbate]

For the record I don't think much of straight porn, either. But that probably has something to do with the fact that I think guys look better with their clothes on.

I have to agree with you on this. The only guy I normally want to see is the UPS delivery man.

 

[pop_54]

*Sigh*

I've pretty much given up on lesbian porn. The big hairstyles, the inflated breasts, the unmemorable muzak and the wafer-thin storylines that serve as an explanation for the sex...

Most of it is created by guys for guys, and I'm afraid it leaves me cold.

For the record I don't think much of straight porn, either. But that probably has something to do with the fact that I think guys look better with their clothes on.

In full agreement Shaz... I find all commercially produced porn boring crap, filled with false moans, plastic unnatural looking tits, sugically enhanced unnatural looking dick's, oversized shaved orifices, and females whether supposedly gay or straight appearing bored with it all rather than excited.

I think most guys look better with their clothes on too... although some look quite sweet and tasty in the raw

Does lesbian love turn me on as a spectator sport?? Hell yes!!! But it has to have the required balance of love and lust not the clinical crap of porno land... Two women kissing passionately fully clothed turns me on more than naked plastic titted tarts going at it on film.

What does a lesbian look like Charley?? I can never tell them from straight birds until they start kissing and rug munching... and being married to a very bisexual female I've seen a few in my time


edited to sort out the dyslexia

 

[3113]

In full agreement Shaz... I find all commercially produced porn boring crap, filled with false moans, plastic unnatural looking tits...

Oh, you've hit on one of my turn-offs there. When I see strippers or porn stars with enhanced breasts I shudder--and I certainly don't identify with them during the sex scenes. It's not just the outrageous sizes of the breasts, but that said tits are so stiff and fake.

I understand the "ideal" is large, perky (youthful) breasts, but most of them look like they came off a plastic doll. A hand rubs them and there's no give or movement. If I'm going to identify with the woman on screen, I'd like to see some sag and swing and softness, not artifical perk.

 

[Pure]

a couple point not mentioned:

'lesbian' scenes can show a female face and pussy in the same frame.

'lesbian' scenes do not have real cocks doing their job; in ordinary porn, seeing cock in action has a number of discomfort facets for many males: most obviously comparisons, but less obviously one's leanings toward a 'female' (receiver) role.