Looking at the US gun law debate another way...

[phrodeau]

And the no-fly list. And yes, simple. Which was my point, the democrats wouldn't agree to making the the changes to the laws to make sure there was due process. They just wanted people on the lists prohibited from buying a gun.

Well, the Republicans have been in power in both Houses for five years. What's their problem?

 

[about_average]

Well, the Republicans have been in power in both Houses for five years. What's their problem?

Democrats, same as the fact that Republicans are the Democrat's problem.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

In 1996, a nutter named Martin Bryant killed 35 people with a semi automatic, a cheap AK 47 knock off, in Port Arthur Australia. In 1997 the federal government with the support of the states introduced gun control laws. Access to semi automatics was severely restricted. All firearms had to be registered. Licensing was standardized across the country.

There hasn't been another mass shooting.

Yes criminals still have guns, yes illegal guns are still sold on the black market. But at the very least if the police see someone with a gun they can detain them and ask for their license. Any criminal caught with a gun can be arrested just for that.

Same in the states, any criminal with a gun can be arrested.

Now let me ask you this, how many people would have died at Port Arthur if a Law Abiding citizen had shot Martin Bryant when he showed up with the AK?

From what I read Martin Bryant has the mental capacity of a two year old and the gun was not owned by him, and many people believe this was a false flag to convince Aussies to give up their guns.

More lives are saved in a day by firearms in the United States than are killed in a year, most of these self defense uses do not end with a single shot fired.
Report from the CDC on gun violence.

In Honduras they have banned all guns. Highest per capita firearm death rate in the world.

In Switzerland the Government gives every legal age citizen military style weaponry, and training to use it. No mass shootings, no terrorist attacks.

Is it the guns or is it people?

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Well, the Republicans have been in power in both Houses for five years. What's their problem?

The guy at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

An no it hasn't been 5 years, it has been 2 years. GOP took control of both houses in 2014, for the first time in 8 years.

So 6 years of a democrat president and in control of both houses and not a single piece of gun legislation passed.

I bet the Democrats don't actually want to pass these laws. The more shootings they can cry about, the more they can be on TV calling for anti gun laws, and the more letters they can send out about the big bad NRA, asking for donations to fight for gun control, yet all they do is sit on the floor and order food.

 

[about_average]

So 6 years of a democrat president and in control of both houses and not a single piece of gun legislation passed.

You have a strange definition of "in control".
As pointed out in another thread, democrats actually had control for all of 72 days since Obama was elected.

 

[kimber22]

Help me, guys, from across the Atlantic. Because no one here understands it. You're thing right now is, that people who are not allowed to get on a plane in US - some people want that they also are not allowed to buy guns. Is it that?

So, you say: guy X is a threat to people, so we dont let him get on a plane because he can do terrible things there, BUT we let him buy a gun, and a kalashnikow, and some hand grenades, and some explosives... BECAUSE everything is okay as long he doesnt blow up a plane with that stuff... is is that?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Well, the Republicans have been in power in both Houses for five years. What's their problem?

Well, they are not grade school cry babbies like the Dems but just as morally bankrupt. America needs to terminate all of them and start over. and this time when we fire them for being retards, they do not collect their fat pension or any other golden handcuffs ... just regular handcuffs

 

[phrodeau]

The guy at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

An no it hasn't been 5 years, it has been 2 years. GOP took control of both houses in 2014, for the first time in 8 years.

So 6 years of a democrat president and in control of both houses and not a single piece of gun legislation passed.

I bet the Democrats don't actually want to pass these laws. The more shootings they can cry about, the more they can be on TV calling for anti gun laws, and the more letters they can send out about the big bad NRA, asking for donations to fight for gun control, yet all they do is sit on the floor and order food.

I pulled the "five years" out of my ass.

Where did you pull the "six years" from?

 

[phrodeau]

Help me, guys, from across the Atlantic. Because no one here understands it. You're thing right now is, that people who are not allowed to get on a plane in US - some people want that they also are not allowed to buy guns. Is it that?

So, you say: guy X is a threat to people, so we dont let him get on a plane because he can do terrible things there, BUT we let him buy a gun, and a kalashnikow, and some hand grenades, and some explosives... BECAUSE everything is okay as long he doesnt blow up a plane with that stuff... is is that?

That is the way the NRA likes to think. The NRA has no interest in airplanes, only gun makers.

 

[about_average]

Help me, guys, from across the Atlantic. Because no one here understands it. You're thing right now is, that people who are not allowed to get on a plane in US - some people want that they also are not allowed to buy guns. Is it that?

So, you say: guy X is a threat to people, so we dont let him get on a plane because he can do terrible things there, BUT we let him buy a gun, and a kalashnikow, and some hand grenades, and some explosives... BECAUSE everything is okay as long he doesnt blow up a plane with that stuff... is is that?

No, that's not it.

Right now people get added to those lists for many reasons other than actually being a terrorist. There's no public list and no easily identifiable way to appeal your name being on the list, especially when you can't find out until you're at check-in ready to fly. In other words, you're being labeled a "terrorist" with potentially no evidence.

There are a number of rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights and specific instances when those rights can be removed. For instance if you're a felon you lose certain rights, but they all have to follow due process. Any removal of rights outside of those narrow conditions is a violation of the constitution.

So:
- The vast majority of people on the no-fly list and citizens on watch lists have never been charged with, much less convicted of, a crime. There's been no due process
- Owning a gun is a right guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.
- No right can be removed without due process
- Taking away the right to own a gun because your name is on one of the lists would be unconstitutional

 

[Ldy_Sea]

I pulled the "five years" out of my ass.

Where did you pull the "six years" from?

I got it by using math.

The house and Senate became a Democrat Majority in 2006. Obama was elected in 2008. The Democrats lost control of both houses in 2014.

So Democrat president and Democrat legislature from 2008 to 2014. 14-8=6.

Good to know that when you debate you make things up. Now I know not to believe anything you say since you just

pulled the "five years" out of my ass.

I guess using facts is too hard.

 

[phrodeau]

I got it by using math.

The house and Senate became a Democrat Majority in 2006. Obama was elected in 2008. The Democrats lost control of both houses in 2014.

So Democrat president and Democrat legislature from 2008 to 2014. 14-8=6.

Good to know that when you debate you make things up. Now I know not to believe anything you say since you just

I guess using facts is too hard.

Republicans took control of Congress in 2011. Look it up.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

That is the way the NRA likes to think. The NRA has no interest in airplanes, only gun makers.

OH MY GOD! A group that was formed (1871) before airplanes existed, to defend gun rights, defends gun rights, and doesn't have anything to do with airplanes.

I am in shock! Does Rupert Murdoch know about this. It needs to be published in every media outlet. The National Rifle Association has nothing to do with airplanes.

SMH

 

[about_average]

I guess using facts is too hard.

the-myth-of-the-filibuster-proof-democratic-senate/

 

[about_average]

OH MY GOD! A group that was formed (1871) before airplanes existed, to defend gun rights, defends gun rights, and doesn't have anything to do with airplanes.

Not true. The NRA was formed to promote marksmanship. In fact, the NRA was instrumental in writing early, restrictive, gun laws.

 

[phrodeau]

OH MY GOD! A group that was formed (1871) before airplanes existed, to defend gun rights, defends gun rights, and doesn't have anything to do with airplanes.

I am in shock! Does Rupert Murdoch know about this. It needs to be published in every media outlet. The National Rifle Association has nothing to do with airplanes.

SMH

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/f9/10/77/f910779af0ee26e7618dd1425e1b0742.jpg

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Republicans took control of Congress in 2011. Look it up.

They took control of BOTH houses in 2014 during the midterm elections.

NBC NEWS Republicans Rule House Senate First Time in 8 Years Dated Nov 5th 2014

How about the Huffington Post
Republicans Control Both Houses of Congress; Democrats the Presidency: So What Does the Future Hold?

In case two sources aren't enough here is a third from AP dated June 6 2015.

Republicans Are About To Take Full Control Of Congress For The First Time In 8 Years

Now explain to me how the GOP took control of Congress in an odd number year when there are no elections in an odd number year.

The entire House of Representatives is elected every two years, always an even number year.

Senators serve six year terms with one third being up for election every two years, always an even number year.

Presidents serve 4 year terms and are always elected in an even number year.

There were no elections in 2011.

In the 2010 elections the GOP took 6 seats in the senate but were still the minority as the Democrats still held 51 seats in the senate, compared to the GOPs 47.

Look it up.

 

[kimber22]

No, that's not it.

Any removal of rights outside of those narrow conditions is a violation of the constitution.

So:
- The vast majority of people on the no-fly list and citizens on watch lists have never been charged with, much less convicted of, a crime. There's been no due process
- Owning a gun is a right guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.
- No right can be removed without due process
- Taking away the right to own a gun because your name is on one of the lists would be unconstitutional

Well, doesn't that go for almost all terrorists in US history?

- The vast majority ... on watch lists have never been charged with, much less convicted of, a crime..
- Owning a gun is their right which can not be removed.
- Taking away their guns would be unconstitutional

No, I really don't see how that's gonna work. Maybe, the point is to give just ALL Americans a Kalashnikov, and ALL prospective terrorists a thick gun, and THEN just let them play it all out? The stronger survive?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

That is the way the NRA likes to think. The NRA has no interest in airplanes, only gun makers.

fact is, you need to get your obama under control. he loves terrorist. the Orlando shooting is all on the obama and its fucking retard politics. then again, obama loves terrorist

 

[Ldy_Sea]

the-myth-of-the-filibuster-proof-democratic-senate/

A source listed as progressive news defending why the president couldn't get anything done with a Democratic majority in both houses. That's a legit source.

Tell me why not a single budget was passed when all that takes is a simple majority vote. 51 senators voting yay on a budget, it passes. Yet that wasn't done when the Democrats were the majority. Is it anywomder Obama doubled the debt from 10 trillion to 19 trillion. It took 220 years and 44 presidents to do, Obama did in less than 8.

 

[JackLuis]

Woman shoots stalker ex-boyfriend hiding under bed as techs install security system to keep him out

Good Girl with a gun 1.
Stupid Stocker under the bed 0.

A Tennessee woman shot her stalker ex-boyfriend after discovering him hiding under her bed just as technicians were wrapping up installing a surveillance system designed to keep him at bay.

According to Fox17 Nashville, the unidentified woman had previously taken out a restraining order against 52-year-old Tony Joe Gunter after he reportedly threatened her saying, “I will kill you, you stupid c—.” The woman explained that she had broken up with him after finding out he has an extensive criminal background.

After Gunter violated the restraining order three times, the woman elected to have a surveillance system installed at her home for protection.

On Tuesday, as technicians from ADT were finishing up installing the alarm system, the woman went into her bedroom to retrieve her cellphone only to discover it was gone — but Gunter’s feet were sticking out from under her bed.

Boom!

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Not true. The NRA was formed to promote marksmanship. In fact, the NRA was instrumental in writing early, restrictive, gun laws.

The NRA still promotes markmanship. They also fought to allow Blacks and Native Americans to have the right to own guns. Hence Gun rights.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

You have a strange definition of "in control".
As pointed out in another thread, democrats actually had control for all of 72 days since Obama was elected.

Wow. I guess a year only has 72 days. Just becasue congress isn't in session that doesn't mean that the party in control relinquishes that control.

This is the same thing every president had to deal with. None of them failed to pass a budget during their entire term.

No other president had the Credit rating of the US lowered twice...or even once.

No other president had teh lowest workforce participation rate since the great depression.

But blame everyone else.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Well, doesn't that go for almost all terrorists in US history?

- The vast majority ... on watch lists have never been charged with, much less convicted of, a crime..
- Owning a gun is their right which can not be removed.
- Taking away their guns would be unconstitutional

No, I really don't see how that's gonna work. Maybe, the point is to give just ALL Americans a Kalashnikov, and ALL prospective terrorists a thick gun, and THEN just let them play it all out? The stronger survive?

Switzerland does exactly that. All citizens are given a miliary style rifle, and are trained in their use. Lowest homicide rate in the world and not a single terrorist attack in their history.

Even the anti gun ACLU says that using the watch lists to regulate guns is wrong. When the NRA and ACLU agree that a piece of gun legislation is bad, it must be really bad.

There are 6 month old children on the no fly list, and a 103 year old woman on the terror watch list. Sen. Ted Kennedy was on the No Fly List, as are other government officals.

 

[kimber22]

Switzerland does exactly that. All citizens are given a miliary style rifle, and are trained in their use. Lowest homicide rate in the world and not a single terrorist attack in their history.

Even the anti gun ACLU says that using the watch lists to regulate guns is wrong. When the NRA and ACLU agree that a piece of gun legislation is bad, it must be really bad.

There are 6 month old children on the no fly list, and a 103 year old woman on the terror watch list. Sen. Ted Kennedy was on the No Fly List, as are other government officals.

Oh yeah, I love all you US-guys referring to the Swiss Gun Laws... I bet most of you dont' even know where Swizerland is...


There it is clearly stated:

One can buy a gun who:
1) must be 18 yrs old
2) must not have any reason that makes him/her not allow to get a gun
3) must not be known to the Swiss Authorities in terms of being something like dangerous or something...

So, that is clearly a "European Gun Law": Guns are given to guys who are tested by the authorities. THEN, they get a gun.
YOU, Americans give your Guns to everyone, and THEN, afterwards you complain that the guys you gave the guns to, made a horrible massacre with it. WE, in Europe don't give THESE guys a gun. YOU give them a gun and then always complain why all these horrible things happen...