Paganism and Wicca

[cantdog]

Goths scare people, too. You can't win.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I read all the posts on the thread and then I clicked on the URL in Burley's post to read the article. I don't see why the posters here are making so much of a fuss. Perhaps instead of saying "ritual" they should have said "ceremony" which means the same thing but is a little nicer. Outside of that, it was a straightforward news report. The newspaper only reported what they had been told.

The words "wed" and later "marry" were properly placed in quotation marks because the emphasis was that the rituals or ceremonies had no validity because of the youth of the girl. No descriptions of the ceremony or ritual were included, nor was the name of the ceremony included.

The reference to the status of the woman and child as teacher and student was important because that is how they met. The reference to the religion involved was also necessary because the woman took advantage of the relationship to molest the child. If they had omitted either reference, it would have been a failure of the duty of the newspaper to include all relevant facts.

The newspaper article is neutral regarding the religion of the woman and child involved. People may make inferences because that is the nature of people but the article just reports what has been told to them.

From time to time, I have read newspaper stories about Catholic priests being accused of molesting chilodren. The articles say something like "Father Joe Schmoe of Saint Harry's Parish has been charged with molesting altar boys over a period of four years." Then it would go on to some further description. Newspaper articles like this are necessary because, otherwise the church involved would probably ignore it, or even protect the molester. If other Wiccans had been the ones to find out about the ongoing molestation of this 14 year old girl, would they have properly reported it or would they have covered it up?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Trying to wean the thread away from Joe and my's debate...

http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/090999/new_roswell.shtml



I have friends who won't wear their pentagrams out in public, simply for the reaction they get. Even if they explain that they're pagan and the entire religion is based around 'If it harm none, do what you will,' people still seem to associate them with devil-worshippers and demon summoners. Some people just seem to have an off-switch in their ears which prevents them from hearing anything that could affect their prejudices.

The Earl

Crowley? Interesting.

Though that mentioning brings up a fact about Paganism that many don't get. That is, it's disorganized. There are many many facets to it ranging from strict old-school pantheons and methods of worship to New Age nearly-monotheistic Wicca. There are even forms of paganism which aren't truth to tell pagan, but share common threads with forms of paganism. Everyone's tales of paganistic friends will differ because in truth paganism is arrived at by the person themselves instead of discovery of an institution.

Personally, I find myself applauding people anytime they think about their religion, try and fix the most stark flaws, or otherwise revise their beliefs. I know a Christian who has found a path of inclusion for magicks in the Bible that doesn't link Wiccas to the devil.

I think the point of being a member of an unpopular, tiny, or personalized religion is learning to ignore the insults of the mainstream, those who belong to a big popular religion, or even to strike back. It is similar to being an outcast back in school (in America, the rest of the world seems to be different on that count). So, they hate us. So fucking what. Punk, that's the British analogy. Lack of care for what others think needs to be infused for many.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I read all the posts on the thread and then I clicked on the URL in Burley's post to read the article. I don't see why the posters here are making so much of a fuss. Perhaps instead of saying "ritual" they should have said "ceremony" which means the same thing but is a little nicer. Outside of that, it was a straightforward news report. The newspaper only reported what they had been told.

The words "wed" and later "marry" were properly placed in quotation marks because the emphasis was that the rituals or ceremonies had no validity because of the youth of the girl. No descriptions of the ceremony or ritual were included, nor was the name of the ceremony included.

The reference to the status of the woman and child as teacher and student was important because that is how they met. The reference to the religion involved was also necessary because the woman took advantage of the relationship to molest the child. If they had omitted either reference, it would have been a failure of the duty of the newspaper to include all relevant facts.

The newspaper article is neutral regarding the religion of the woman and child involved. People may make inferences because that is the nature of people but the article just reports what has been told to them.

From time to time, I have read newspaper stories about Catholic priests being accused of molesting chilodren. The articles say something like "Father Joe Schmoe of Saint Harry's Parish has been charged with molesting altar boys over a period of four years." Then it would go on to some further description. Newspaper articles like this are necessary because, otherwise the church involved would probably ignore it, or even protect the molester. If other Wiccans had been the ones to find out about the ongoing molestation of this 14 year old girl, would they have properly reported it or would they have covered it up?

Reported it. Unlike the Catholic Church, there is little real organization or history of prim and properness. They probably would have added a caveat though that this isn't what Wicca is or would have decried the article's focus on the lesbianism and Wicca instead of the abuse of power and pedophilia.

 

[Amy Sweet]

http://www.detnews.com/pix/2004/12/04/teacher.jpg

Elizabeth Miklosovic is escorted to a detective's car after her
arraignment at District Court in South Haven, Mich. Miklosovic
was charged with first-degree criminal-sexual conduct,
a potential life offense.

Police say teacher 'wed' 14-year-old girl in pagan ritual
Associated Press

For any who wants to check the original story. There is the URL.

As always in this kind of story, Elizabeth Miklosovic is guilty in the newspaper headlines, before she has been more than arraigned. This in the testimony of a schoolgirl with emotional troubles and her friend’s testimony.

Statements are made, carefully pieced together declarative statements from one or another of the parties involved, and not once was the reporter forced to resort to the word “alleged.”

Right off the top, there is a possible lawsuit. The police did charge the woman with first- and second-degree criminal sexual conduct, but most of the facts in the headline comes from her accusers’ accusations. If the police said them, they should be sued, if the paper was just beefing up their headline, they should be sued, no matter who did what. The trouble is, unless the woman in question is innocent, and can prove her innocent far, far beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt, any suit she brings would be too prejudiced to win.

Then there is the inflated sentence. I know that newspapers like to increase the importance of the story by signifying the greatest possible penalty allowable. It makes their job of sensationalising everything more believable.

"If convicted, Miklosovic faces a maximum sentence of life in prison. She was ordered held on a $100,000 bond and remained in the county jail Friday."

For her first offense, Mary Kay Letourneau received six months in jail and three years of counselling in a community-based program for sex offenders. It was only after repeatedly violating her probation (and giving birth to a second child) that Letourneau was sentenced to serve her maximum seven year sentence. [Incidentally, Letourneau is now considered by many to be the victim of a bipolar disorder, and at no time, apparently, was any thought given to issuing a restraining order against Vili to keep him away from Letourneau, which would have left the (by then) teenager liable to any penalty.]

Yet, in a case where not even the possibility of offspring exists, this reporter is mooting life imprisonment. Either the reporter is ignorant of the law, or has his own agenda — sensationalise everything to the maximum!

"Although the girl was in Miklosovic's class in the past, the sexual contact did not occur until this year, authorities said."

The fact that Miklosovic is a teacher is invalid. The girl was a former student, the alleged activity took place over the summer, and did not happen at school. There is no reason for the School Board, or the Principal to be consulted.

"The girl's family said Miklosovic brainwashed the girl into thinking the two did nothing wrong. A relative told the Grand Rapids Press that the family initially believed Miklosovic's interest in the girl -- who was described as vulnerable and as having emotional problems -- was to help her."

One wonders what caused the girl’s emotional problems?

"The student told a classmate about the relationship and the classmate told school officials, who placed the seventh-grade language arts teacher on leave from her job. Miklosovic has worked for South Haven Public Schools for three years."

A family that takes its problems to the newspaper with sensational accusations, alway makes me wonder about their competence, if not their sincerity. Once the law becomes involved, a certain amount of notoriety is inescapable, but that does not necessitate running to the first reporter (and this is the first reporter) on the scene, to publicise all the details, even if the girl wasn’t already judged to have emotional problems.

So naturally, based on heresay (she told a classmate and the classemate told the school), (and without so much as an arainment) we should shoot this woman in the face, and condemn all of pagansm along with her.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Amy Sweet
So naturally, based on heresay (she told a classmate and the classemate told the school), (and without so much as an arainment) we should shoot this woman in the face, and condemn all of pagansm along with her.

Actually, she's innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Amy Sweet]

Re: Trying to wean the thread away from Joe and my's debate...

Some people just seem to have an off-switch in their ears which prevents them from hearing anything that could affect their prejudices.

The Earl

Another quote so good, I'll have to put it in my sigline. Or hell, maybe it will go under my pic (location)

 

[Amy Sweet]

Actually, she's innocent until proven guilty.

Thats good to hear Joe.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

[threadjack]

Just took your Goddess test Sweet one and got Artemis to which I say:

"DAMN STRAIGHT!"

Now I need to take the God one and get Hades or possibly Loki.
[/threadjack]