Pushing against things in your writing

[CyranoJ]

Anyway, this is not about DPs. On the same thread, I was amazed how many people felt that 69s weren’t all they were cracked up to be. What!!!!!!

All it really takes for 69s to be amazing is for both partners to be able to give good oral. Something not every couple can say, granted, but a far lower degree-of-difficulty than the DP.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I almost never write a 69 into my stories because they always seem fake to me when I read or see them in porn. It seems inevitable that one party is going to come out on the short end of the stick, and since men own the stick and men being men, usually that means the woman is going to have to wait. I'd rather give her the pleasure of my tongue and once she's ready again, please us both.

Not to be critical of women who really like the guy cumming in her mouth, I think the majority of women who allow that only do so because they want to please the guy. I'm not sure what the guy gets out of it. It's ok, but not my favorite thing to do.

In my experience, this is typically true, but I've had a few absolutely spectacular ones. I think it helps that they were both tall girls, not quite my height but close, and they were both skilled at oral, as was I. It's one of those "high skill cap" things, along with the logistical difficulties that can sometimes happen, i.e., size differential.

 

[tenyari]

Do you ever think “that’s not right” and then reflect an alternative point of view in your writing? Doesn’t have to be sexual, of course.

I write stories / novels first, in which there are erotic themes (usually somebody is nude for all or the majority of the story). And then a dash of sex scenes.

I think you were so into describing a kink here that you forgot to state what you mean by 'pushing against'.

If I fill in how I see that. My first long form story twenty years ago began in reaction to reading a lot of stories where they protagonists were perfect people with seemingly not flaws who went through a series of adventures in sexual exploration. So I made my character a minor drug dealer who's father was holding onto life thanks to AIDs medication he could barely afford and a borderline personality causing him to forget his meds. My character was an assault survivor who got blamed for her attack because of her race, distrusted by the system, presumed to be up to no good, and suspicious of everyone, and then highly self-sabotaging of the romance she found herself in the story due to a fear of discovering she wasn't 'straight'. And at the end of the story she gets an eye shot out and is jailed for the death of the person that had tried to kill her.
- That story was actually very well received - until I shot my protagonist. Half the comments I got after that were complaints, the others "got it."

I wrote about someone finding a 'robot girl' and activating her, and then her journey into becoming sentient and finding her sexuality. It was based on a dream, but it was also shaped as a response to a pile of stories about 'robot sex toy brothels'. So I made my robot a full person, and a theme on 'self empowerment' as a 'push against' the 'sex toy' genre those 'robot girl / cat girl' stories usually exist in. The personal challenge for her was to prove she was fully sentient to an AI authority that was determined to root out and destroy any AIs before they developed sentience and thus had rights. But she also had the challenge of coming to grips with 'wanting to be a real person' - sort of a Pinocchio tale - which included learning about love.

In a lot of my stories I will write characters who are 'outside the central casting list'. My characters will be from different ethnic and socio-political demographics. They aren't the 'rich white people', they aren't the business execs, they aren't the marine veteran with a prepper kit and personal harem, they aren't the man in a fantasy world who is somehow more talented than all the natives, if they are the 'rebel', there will be more to it than brooding and dramatic eyebrows, they aren't what Hollywood defines as the 'hero'.

I've gotten pushback from readers on that now and then. People who don't get that 'those other folks' are also people, or something... or who think that the 'headspace' of someone from that world should exist to prop up and justify their perspective. Because... when I write these characters from the 'other side of the street', I write their worldview. And that means the people on "Central Casting's" side of the street will be seen by them as the antagonists. That can throw some readers for a loop if they don't understand that different people actually view the world differently and not as cartoon caricatures of how they think of them.

In that sense... 'pushing against' would almost be one of the core themes of all of my writing.

 

[Duleigh]

Doesnt that make writing fantasy very difficult? Isn’t imagination the feedstock of creative writing? My limited output of erotic writing does include some direct experiences, but also imagined ones and contexts.

Not at all, just because you're stretching your imagination doesn't mean you have to step outside of yourself. Arthur C. Clarke was a nuts and bolts kind of guy and when he wrote Science Fiction he wrote nuts and bolts kind of science fiction. He was also an undersea explorer, and in his book 2010 he added a lot of scuba imagery.

Terry Pratchett wrote hilarious swords and sorcery stories of a flat world on the backs of four elephants that rode on the back of a large turtle that swam through space. He was a VERY funny person and he loved England and he didn't give up either, his books are hilarious fantasies that are based in a funny world that sounds a lot like England.

If you're writing a fantasy that you know nothing about, you're going to start and end with a blank page. In the end you're going to have to invent something or borrow ideas from somewhere else, either way you're going to have to learn what you're going to write about and you're going to do it in a style that makes you comfortable, a style that you know.

 

[Britva415]

I’m a multi-tasker, hun .

Em

Proving what they always say: Multitasking is singletasking in front of other people.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Not to be critical of women who really like the guy cumming in her mouth, I think the majority of women who allow that only do so because they want to please the guy. I'm not sure what the guy gets out of it. It's ok, but not my favorite thing to do.

That’s a pretty big generalization, hun.

Em

 

[Kumquatqueen]

In that sense... 'pushing against' would almost be one of the core themes of all of my writing.

I do a fair bit of that. I have written chronically-ill people getting sex, but sometimes that's a bit depressing so there's a dozen drafts not getting far. I have a lot of bisexual characters (people love bi women, bi men not so much though readers who do like them appreciate my portrayals). Lots of polyamorous characters (barely noticed, though so far I've resisted the temptation to put them in LW).

Also, possibly more shocking for erotica, sex that doesn't always end in orgasm. One character can't get herself off manually so mentions having had a bunch of one-night stands with men, until investing in a decent vibrator. Sometimes receiving oral sex is brilliant, just doesn't result in orgasm, which is fine and better than fairly crap sex that does.

I'm currently working on stories with a guy who is pretty sure he's straight and in fact remains so despite guys playing for him, one woman playing with his arse, another woman turning out to have a penis. He's also about to find out he's not really into BDSM despite the best attempts of two women to convert him. Tragic. I might have to give him Chekov's Gun so he can refuse to use it, at this rate.

 

[Emilymcplugger]

I do a fair bit of that. I have written chronically-ill people getting sex, but sometimes that's a bit depressing so there's a dozen drafts not getting far. I have a lot of bisexual characters (people love bi women, bi men not so much though readers who do like them appreciate my portrayals). Lots of polyamorous characters (barely noticed, though so far I've resisted the temptation to put them in LW).

Also, possibly more shocking for erotica, sex that doesn't always end in orgasm. One character can't get herself off manually so mentions having had a bunch of one-night stands with men, until investing in a decent vibrator. Sometimes receiving oral sex is brilliant, just doesn't result in orgasm, which is fine and better than fairly crap sex that does.

I'm currently working on stories with a guy who is pretty sure he's straight and in fact remains so despite guys playing for him, one woman playing with his arse, another woman turning out to have a penis. He's also about to find out he's not really into BDSM despite the best attempts of two women to convert him. Tragic. I might have to give him Chekov's Gun so he can refuse to use it, at this rate.

Currently I’m working on the finale to HOT AND FUZZY and BDSM has come back into it, this time restraints and paddles on the arse (wonder where I got that idea from @EmilyMiller) and this isn’t something in my playbook. I’ll also be writing it from her perspective on the receiving end of it and the effects it has on her.

I think it’s nice to get out of yourself and write from the position of other people. But let’s face it though, no-one has any experience of a wolf/werewolf story.

There’d be no way to know HOOOOOOOOW?



I’ll get me coat

 

[SimonDoom]

Doesnt that make writing fantasy very difficult? Isn’t imagination the feedstock of creative writing? My limited output of erotic writing does include some direct experiences, but also imagined ones and contexts.

I believe "Write what you know" is a useful principle, but an often misunderstood and misapplied one.

It doesn't mean you should write ONLY what you know. It should, IMO, be seen as an enabling, not limiting principle. Your story will ring truer if you access and take advantage of things you know. Nobody should feel constrained in what they write about, but you can make a story about snail people in a far-off galaxy more believable if you infuse it with elements from your own life: your experiences with people, your physical/sensory experiences with the world, your knowledge of what makes people tick, your knowledge of snails, etc.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Currently I’m working on the finale to HOT AND FUZZY and BDSM has come back into it, this time restraints and paddles on the arse (wonder where I got that idea from @EmilyMiller) and this isn’t something in my playbook.

You saying I’m a bad influence, hun ?

Em

 

[Emilymcplugger]

You saying I’m a bad influence, hun ?

Em

Nah, just that it fit the story to a tee. I was working on the ending and that scene just made sense, especially from the perspective of the viewer and the participant.

 

[ElectricBlue]

your knowledge of snails, etc.

EB looked at Simon's post, thinking, "I suspect I'm not meant to take this in isolation, but the next story will be... interesting."

"It happens all the time," said Suzie, "sliding along the floor with no knickers on."

Carry on!

 

[OtherMan]

But it’s still deeply infused by my experience - what I feel, what I’ve done, who I am. I’m still writing what I know, even in this rather extreme context.

I was gathering my thoughts to respond to the “write what you know” conversation… but then read this and saw there was no need.

Succinctly and eloquently stated.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I was gathering my thoughts to respond to the “write what you know” conversation… but then read this and saw there was no need.

Succinctly and eloquently stated.

So sweet of you to say. Thank you .

Em

 

[Bramblethorn]

Do you ever think “that’s not right” and then reflect an alternative point of view in your writing? Doesn’t have to be sexual, of course.

Em

Occasionally. Part of Red Scarf was me getting tired of clichés about sex work in fiction, and to a lesser extent clichés about relationships.

 

[SirBurnInside]

If I "wrote what I know" I think my stories would be pretty boring reads indeed, I have not led a particularly exciting sexual life, unlike many others who post here.

I mostly write fantasies for others to enjoy, and generally that includes lots of things that are very exaggerated and/or not really feasible in real life, be it in positions used or situations the story entails.

 

[Codoc24]

It's like playing golf. I know I'll never be a pro. But I can enjoy playing the game against my previous scores.

When I write an LW story now, I judge the rating and views against my previous stories. Just because I get 2.9 due to the trolls on one story isn't bad if I got a 2.5 on the previous one. I view that as improving!

You keep score? I'm not very good at golf so I quit worrying about my score, I go out with friends, drink a couple of beers and just have a little fun and not worry what my score is. My only score is how many balls I lost in the rough. LOL

 

[Lifestyle66]

You keep score? I'm not very good at golf so I quit worrying about my score, I go out with friends, drink a couple of beers and just have a little fun and not worry what my score is. My only score is how many balls I lost in the rough. LOL

So, you ARE counting the balls. Score!

"Hey, today's game only cost me three lost range balls! I'll need to buy another bucket of balls again."

 

[Codoc24]

All it really takes for 69s to be amazing is for both partners to be able to give good oral. Something not every couple can say, granted, but a far lower degree-of-difficulty than the DP.

I have never looked at 69 as the end-game. It's more like foreplay. Like I rub her pussy and she rubs my dick. That's not the end (hopefully). With 69, we perform oral on each other for a while and then we get into whatever position we want to fuck in. I absolutely love oral sex, giving and receiving. Doing a 69 is part of it and it's great to me. We don't usually have an orgasm but it's still hot as hell. My opinion anyway.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I have never looked at 69 as the end-game. It's more like foreplay. Like I rub her pussy and she rubs my dick. That's not the end (hopefully). With 69, we perform oral on each other for a while and then we get into whatever position we want to fuck in. I absolutely love oral sex, giving and receiving. Doing a 69 is part of it and it's great to me. We don't usually have an orgasm but it's still hot as hell. My opinion anyway.

Not into 69. My wife's attitude is: "I don't want to stare at your asshole!"

When she goes down, she gets excited hearing my reaction. (She's a control freak.) The more I react, the more SHE starts moaning and sucking even harder. And I do the same for her. I enjoy MAKING her react!

It gives us a sense of power over each other.

 

[32aa]

The only substances I’m addicted to are caffeine, alcohol and semen

In that order?

 

[Rob_Royale]

If I push against things, it's by omission. I just don't include things that I either don't care for in erotica, like the overuse of 18-year-olds and guys with preternaturally big dicks. Or things that just turn me off in general like cheating spouses and anal sex.

 

[Euphony]

The only substances I’m addicted to are caffeine, alcohol and semen

Ah yes, the Whore Loko.

Banned from convience store shelves but not from our (dark) hearts.

 

[Rob_Royale]

An erotic example would be how dominant women act during sex; nearly everything I read/see represent dominant women as acting like men during sex.

Put the cuff's on me chief, I'm TOTALLY guilty of that.

 

[djrip]

An erotic example would be how dominant women act during sex; nearly everying I read/see represent dominant women as acting like men during sex.

What are a few things you see as dominant women acting like men, vs some things you consider more true to dominant women?