PYL knows best?

[teknight]

It'd appear the conversation has veered away from PYLs/pyls (as I understand it, the terms apply in a D/s context, correct? Are they exclusive to this context?) into non D/s territory...Well, in the sense that D/s is not an explicit part of of a teacher/student or mentor/mentee relationship in general.

 

[where]

I fully agree on your suspicions, but, let me ask you this: can teachers be "made" or "taught"? Or can they only be natural? (I'm curious, not combative)...and sorry for the thread jack.

as a teacher in the common sense of the word and speaking only in that area, you can learn to become a competent teacher. teachers not only undergo extensive training before qualifying, but also after qualifying. feedback and experience all help a person become competent at the least and most can become excellent. Some people do have a natural flair for teaching, but that doesn't mean you stop improving practice or learning.

There is a huge difference between being competent and being talented and being a teacher.

yeah... so true. so many people I know who are really gifted are hopeless teachers. others are less than skilled in their practice but are great teachers.

I think mentoring (not the overall life thing being discussed in places here) is also a skill. I'm good at the teaching, but I suck at mentoring. I hope to improve in time, but I don't think I have the aptitude.

I really don't think I'd be a good mentee in a bdsm lifestyle kind of way, even if I found someone who I thought was a good mentor. I'm happy to take support and guidance though.

 

[Netzach]

H is 60, respectable, competent and smarter than anyone has a right to be. I'm 37 and kind of a flake in a lot of ways.

Out of the who's teaching who's learning question there's no question that I'm learning more from him.

We just like it when I spit on him also. Is that so wrong?

 

[JMohegan]

I personally have never met a couple where one person is demonstrably more mature or better at everything. I've met people who accomodate each other and let each other think they are. I have to disagree that there's any person who has got it all.

I don't see anyone here asserting that one person is every better at everything, or that one person has got it all.

Mentor/mentee, shaper/shapee relationships don't necessarily have infallibility of the D as an inherent part of the construct. That's your spin on it, your straw man.

 

[Netzach]

In a long term relationship (can I claim that status, my 15th anniversary is Saturday!) it seems that there are times when one person is on the ball and one is putting one foot in front of the other and trying to stay upright - and varying stages in between.

I know I spent about four years in a fog of horrible depression and he had to be more capable. But it was situational. In other ways, I've carried a lot of the burden of things, when he's been away or working non stop and basically showing up breathing once in a while. So it balances out.

He still would SUCK at thank you cards if I never taught him that.

with M pretty much. Except I'm the one who sucks at birthdays and anniversaries. We kind of seem to be taking turns melting down and hanging in.

 

[Recidiva]

It'd appear the conversation has veered away from PYLs/pyls (as I understand it, the terms apply in a D/s context, correct? Are they exclusive to this context?) into non D/s territory...Well, in the sense that D/s is not an explicit part of of a teacher/student or mentor/mentee relationship in general.

Yeah, this is why I said I wasn't sure I applied because our roles are entirely jumbled and not determined ahead of time. I don't know if I'm going to be PYL or pyl on any given subject until it comes up. Which is why everyone's expected to give it their best shot and let the chips fall sort of thing.

I don't intend to offend any strict PYL/pyl thing. But the relationship issues are always the same.

I feel like I just basically said I don't like anchovies on pizza to a room full of anchovies. But the point is, the basics are the pizza. You need dough. You need a cooking technique.

Doesn't matter if you love anchovies if your pizza dough is burned on the bottom and raw on top.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't see anyone here asserting that one person is every better at everything, or that one person has got it all.

Mentor/mentee, shaper/shapee relationships don't necessarily have infallibility of the D as an inherent part of the construct. That's your spin on it, your straw man.

Actually, I saw you say this:

"There *are* pairings in which one person is demonstrably more capable, wise, mature, strong and sensible than the other."

I haven't seen that.

No, I haven't said that at all. I've said that when people misuse the D and misuse the s, you got trouble in River City.

 

[JMohegan]

Actually, I saw you say this:

"There *are* pairings in which one person is demonstrably more capable, wise, mature, strong and sensible than the other."

I haven't seen that.

No, I haven't said that at all. I've said that when people misuse the D and misuse the s, you got trouble in River City.

I stand by that statement. But it doesn't mean that one person is better at everything, or that the wiser one is infallible, or even that there's nothing the D could possibly ever learn from the s.

Oh, if all you meant to say was that misuse of D or s is trouble, who could possible disagree? That's not how I read your posts 32 and 36, but if that's what you meant then no problem.

 

[where]

Actually, I saw you say this:

"There *are* pairings in which one person is demonstrably more capable, wise, mature, strong and sensible than the other."

I haven't seen that.

No, I haven't said that at all. I've said that when people misuse the D and misuse the s, you got trouble in River City.

I took JM to mean that sometimes there are pairings where one person is the capable one, the one who knows and the one who directs, not that all relationships are like that. I've seen relationships like that. or at least that is how they appear to be.

 

[JMohegan]

I took JM to mean that sometimes there are pairings where one person is the capable one, the one who knows and the one who directs, not that all relationships are like that. I've seen relationships like that. or at least that is how they appear to be.

Thank you, yes. That's what I meant.

 

[Netzach]

Perspective:

Honestly, on a FDom predominant board no one assumes the F has secret ancient wisdom that her boys/girls benefits from bettering them. I mean if that blows your skirt, cool, but it's not presumed. At all.

D is D by fiat and doesn't have to be smarter, hotter, whatever-er. S *wants* to serve, even if his talents to be put to use are considerably more in some cases. No justification needed.

It has its own problems as a model "I'm hot therefore I'm in charge" ensues often but in some ways it's kind of liberating.

 

[Recidiva]

I stand by that statement. But it doesn't mean that one person is better at everything, or that the wiser one is infallible, or even that there's nothing the D could possibly ever learn from the s.

Oh, if all you meant to say was that misuse of D or s is trouble, who could possible disagree? That's not how I read your posts 32 and 36, but if that's what you meant then no problem.

Okay, like I said, I didn't mean to imply that my dislike of a certain precedent means that that precedent is wrong for everyone. I'm describing my personal experiences and my personal choices and describing my life strategy thingy.

I just want people to do what makes them genuinely happy and fulfilled. That's also my choice for myself and for my partner. The danger zone comes in when it's not the actual fulfillment and happiness that matters, but the appearance of such. But then again...appearance is a huge factor and a huge source of genuine fulfillment and happiness for some...it's all worth it for other folks where it would make me want to stab myself to death. I fully get that living my life would make them equally miserable.

Yeah, okay, there's a substance over style bias where I'm concerned. I get that the ratio is different for others. I'm a comfortable shoes person, in footwear and in mental wear.

I prefer comfort and flexibility. So if we're going to compare lifestyles as if they're clothing, I'm a comfortable shoes and loose-fitting natural fiber sort of person. What I do will not make someone who loves leather and high heels happy. I get that. And this isn't to judge leather and high heels at all. It's just that I can't do it and be happy with it.

There are people who have decided that they're a comfortable shoe person when they really dream guiltily of high heels. And there are those who are stuck in high heels who desperately want to wear some sneakers now and then. That is learning as time goes by, habituation and changing tastes. I just prefer it when flexibility can accomodate changing needs and wants. I'm not comforted by restraint and limits. At least I'm not right now. I have been that person enough in the past to really GET where they're coming from. I just can't do it long term any more.

 

[Recidiva]

I took JM to mean that sometimes there are pairings where one person is the capable one, the one who knows and the one who directs, not that all relationships are like that. I've seen relationships like that. or at least that is how they appear to be.

Again, that's not my experience. But I've made that point already. Mileage varies. I'm disagreeing with the statement out of my personal experiences, where I haven't met someone who isn't a gibbering wreck about something. I don't care what. Spiders, germs, disorder, allergies to kittens...I don't care, there's always some sort of fatal flaw in a human being where they shouldn't be in charge of shit and should be allowed to run around screaming while someone else kills the spider, disinfects, cleans up or gets a HEPA filter.

 

[JMohegan]

Okay, like I said, I didn't mean to imply that my dislike of a certain precedent means that that precedent is wrong for everyone. I'm describing my personal experiences and my personal choices and describing my life strategy thingy.

Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Recidiva]

That brings up a question.

My husband's tough, but let's say the cat vomits. It's gonna make him heave. I get to clean it up.

Now...

Does that make him the master of me because he gets to assume I will do so for his benefit?

Does it make him submissive because to heave at kitty vomit and not be able to tolerate it makes him show weakness?

Does that put me in charge because I am the most efficient and less volatile vomit cleaner?

Does it make me submissive because I am always the one to adopt that unpleasant duty?

Mostly I think it means I love him and I'll always do it because it makes him uncomfortable if I don't and puts him in distress.

It's really that simple in the end. I think with that formula, you can't really go wrong.

 

[where]

Thank you, yes. That's what I meant.

can I have my pic now?

That brings up a question.

My husband's tough, but let's say the cat vomits. It's gonna make him heave. I get to clean it up.

Now...

Does that make him the master of me because he gets to assume I will do so for his benefit?

Does it make him submissive because to heave at kitty vomit and not be able to tolerate it makes him show weakness?

Does that put me in charge because I am the most efficient and less volatile vomit cleaner?

Does it make me submissive because I am always the one to adopt that unpleasant duty?

Mostly I think it means I love him and I'll always do it because it makes him uncomfortable if I don't and puts him in distress.

It's really that simple in the end. I think with that formula, you can't really go wrong.

nah... makes you a vanilla couple!

*ducks and runs*

 

[Recidiva]

nah... makes you a vanilla couple!

*ducks and runs*

Eh, I don't take vanilla as an insult.

Though I can chase you for fun.

I do have to say that lots of couples, vanilla or no, don't actually love each other when kitty vomit comes a'callin'.

 

[JMohegan]

can I have my pic now?

Ha!!!

 

[teknight]

can I have my pic now?




nah... makes you a vanilla couple!

*ducks and runs*

Cat ownership defines vanilla status?!

Brits are weird. Sorry: weiurd. There, fixed the spelling.

 

[Netzach]

That brings up a question.

My husband's tough, but let's say the cat vomits. It's gonna make him heave. I get to clean it up.

Now...

Does that make him the master of me because he gets to assume I will do so for his benefit?

Does it make him submissive because to heave at kitty vomit and not be able to tolerate it makes him show weakness?

Does that put me in charge because I am the most efficient and less volatile vomit cleaner?

Does it make me submissive because I am always the one to adopt that unpleasant duty?

Mostly I think it means I love him and I'll always do it because it makes him uncomfortable if I don't and puts him in distress.

Yes. Pick whichever and that's what it means. Humans and their contexts.

 

[Recidiva]

Cat ownership defines vanilla status?!

Brits are weird. Sorry: weiurd. There, fixed the spelling.

I concour.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah, this is why I said I wasn't sure I applied because our roles are entirely jumbled and not determined ahead of time. I don't know if I'm going to be PYL or pyl on any given subject until it comes up. Which is why everyone's expected to give it their best shot and let the chips fall sort of thing.

I don't intend to offend any strict PYL/pyl thing. But the relationship issues are always the same.

I feel like I just basically said I don't like anchovies on pizza to a room full of anchovies. But the point is, the basics are the pizza. You need dough. You need a cooking technique.

Doesn't matter if you love anchovies if your pizza dough is burned on the bottom and raw on top.

You've said you don't like anchovies on pizza to a room full of people who will swear that anchovies ARE the pizza dough.

 

[intothewoods]

can I have my pic now?

Get in line! I want to know what JM looks like too.

 

[Recidiva]

Yes. Pick whichever and that's what it means. Humans and their contexts.

Exactly. My symbols don't have to be anybody else's symbols. The question is, does someone clean it up and does everyone involved feel they're benefitting the group or benefitting from being part of the group, or does the vomit lie there and cause problems. And excess heavage.

 

[where]

Eh, I don't take vanilla as an insult.

Though I can chase you for fun.

I do have to say that lots of couples, vanilla or no, don't actually love each other when kitty vomit comes a'callin'.

we have the same issue about when the dog craps everywhere.

but yeah, I like to be chased!

Ha!!!

heh, worth a try!

Cat ownership defines vanilla status?!

Brits are weird. Sorry: weiurd. There, fixed the spelling.

nooooooo, angsting about who is the PYL.

and nothing weird about wanting pics of JM he has a hairy chest AND a treasure trail.