Republican Health Policy

[Bronc31]

You know, what these asshats never seem to acknowledge (or are too stupid to understand), is that Ocare only affects the 20% of the population that either has no insurance, or buys insurance in the individual market.

I has no substantive effect on the 80% of the population that has insurance through their employer (who makes coverage decisions for them) or the government.

Of that 80%, well over half receives their insurance through some type of single-payer government program.

All this bitching about being forced to purchase something is such bullshit. Anyone who's ever received a paycheck, has paid 2.9% of their check into a government health care system.

Again my argument is mostly based on the economics of healthcare, if that makes me an asshat, okay. I'm a big boy the name calling isn't going to change my mind.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Again my argument is mostly based on the economics of healthcare, if that makes me an asshat, okay. I'm a big boy the name calling isn't going to change my mind.

The correct economic answer is to have a single payer - like the rest of the industrialized world has. That would significantly reduce costs for businesses and make them more competitive in a global market. It would also eliminate the deduction corporations take for health insurance, thereby increasing revenue to the government.

All you have to do is compare healthcare costs in the US with those of any other G-8 country.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Economics much like standard weights and measurements works different in the US than it does anywhere else in the world. You know that if you had a background in economics.

 

[mercury14]

The correct economic answer is to have a single payer - like the rest of the industrialized world has. That would significantly reduce costs for businesses and make them more competitive in a global market. It would also eliminate the deduction corporations take for health insurance, thereby increasing revenue to the government.

All you have to do is compare healthcare costs in the US with those of any other G-8 country.

We don't even need to bring up the G-8 though. A student of mine recently presented material about the Costa Rican health care system - they have it completely figured out.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sean Renaud]

Lets say for the sake of brevity that the above is all true. The fact is Obama and the Democrats wouldn't have needed to lie to get 51 votes which is all they would have needed if the Republicans weren't acting like little shits.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sean Renaud]

They needed 60 votes to stop a threatened filibuster, son.

BTW, those Pubs were acting like Americans instead of Soviets like the DEmocrats.

Becuase the Republicans were acting like little shits. Exactly what I said.

If Soviets win elections then it's time to add another 's' to the USA. You don't get to fight progress because you're a namby pamby whiny little bitch. You get to make your case and win the next election.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sean Renaud]

No you little pansy, you have to bleed for it first. It isn't going to be handed to you.

The entire concept of democracy is lost on you apparently. Still if you're willing to die for it I'm willing to kill for it.

 

[Bronc31]

The entire concept of democracy is lost on you apparently. Still if you're willing to die for it I'm willing to kill for it.

Technically, we live in a constitutional republic, and historically most of the rules were setup to protect the minority. This has been changing slowly over the years, as each party in power works hard to undermine the rights of the party out of power. It would be wise for the Democrats to remember that, but hey, what goes around comes around. Each side feels it has to right some wrong created by the majority the last time they were in power. It's probably the biggest reason our government treats every problem like it's a crisis.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Technically, we live in a constitutional republic, and historically most of the rules were setup to protect the minority. This has been changing slowly over the years, as each party in power works hard to undermine the rights of the party out of power. It would be wise for the Democrats to remember that, but hey, what goes around comes around. Each side feels it has to right some wrong created by the majority the last time they were in power. It's probably the biggest reason our government treats every problem like it's a crisis.

Yes we technically live in a constitutional republic but that's more for logistical reasons than anything else. I suppose you could claim that the rules were designed to protect the minority but that's sort of an aside in most ways.

No each party does not work hard to undermind the party in power, certainly Democrats didn't under Bush. They did their job and fucking fell in line like good little patriots.

 

[Bronc31]

Yes we technically live in a constitutional republic but that's more for logistical reasons than anything else. I suppose you could claim that the rules were designed to protect the minority but that's sort of an aside in most ways.

No each party does not work hard to undermind the party in power, certainly Democrats didn't under Bush. They did their job and fucking fell in line like good little patriots.

No doubt they fell in line under Bush, and not for the better I would argue, all the problems we see with the NSA today is a result of them agreeing to the patriot act. All of the bank bailouts, etc.

 

[Sean Renaud]

No doubt they fell in line under Bush, and not for the better I would argue, all the problems we see with the NSA today is a result of them agreeing to the patriot act. All of the bank bailouts, etc.

The bank bailouts were the only thing we could do. The system could not be allowed to fail.

While I think fear initially had more to do with the Patriot Act getting passed than simple compliance that's besides the point. It was a Republican Congress and a Republican president. What were they supposed to do? Shut down the government and hope somehow that the American public sided with them?

No they were obligated to do what they did and fall in line. A democratic republic doesn't work if the losing party just fights everything tooth and nail. It can't. So the losers have to fall in line more often than not. Make your objective noted so next time around you can say you told them so but you lost and that's the reality.

 

[Bronc31]

The bank bailouts were the only thing we could do. The system could not be allowed to fail.

While I think fear initially had more to do with the Patriot Act getting passed than simple compliance that's besides the point. It was a Republican Congress and a Republican president. What were they supposed to do? Shut down the government and hope somehow that the American public sided with them?

No they were obligated to do what they did and fall in line. A democratic republic doesn't work if the losing party just fights everything tooth and nail. It can't. So the losers have to fall in line more often than not. Make your objective noted so next time around you can say you told them so but you lost and that's the reality.

we'll never know but I don't believe the system would have failed, banks made bad investments, they should have been made to pay for those bad investments. capital would have found it's way into the system, we just wouldn't have those large banks anymore. That is the very definition of creative destruction. It is what creates new wealth, and traditionally has allowed for the growth of new business in a capitalist system. That's a discussion for another day.

If the minority never fights, and just goes along with whatever the majority proposes, then we will continually suffer at the hands of whatever party is in power. You don't have to shut the government down all the time to be an effective minority. Compromise usually leads to more reasoned legislation. Shutting down the Government isn't the worse thing in the world, if the fight is on principal. This past shutdown was the 18th time in our history, it's been done, and it has been done when both parties were in power, it's not the end of the world, so long as it ends with good legislation. In terms of the ACA, nothing wrong with fighting this battle on principal, just like a lot of the discussion here. The only difference is, the worse thing that can happen here, is someone may get their feelings hurt, but if Congress gets it wrong, we can suffer for years to come. Again, what is going on right now with the NSA is outrageous, and it is a result of people not standing on principal and fighting. As we are finding out daily, it can always get worse, and it isn't easy to undo.

 

[Sean Renaud]

we'll never know but I don't believe the system would have failed, banks made bad investments, they should have been made to pay for those bad investments. capital would have found it's way into the system, we just wouldn't have those large banks anymore. That is the very definition of creative destruction. It is what creates new wealth, and traditionally has allowed for the growth of new business in a capitalist system. That's a discussion for another day.

If the minority never fights, and just goes along with whatever the majority proposes, then we will continually suffer at the hands of whatever party is in power. You don't have to shut the government down all the time to be an effective minority. Compromise usually leads to more reasoned legislation. Shutting down the Government isn't the worse thing in the world, if the fight is on principal. This past shutdown was the 18th time in our history, it's been done, and it has been done when both parties were in power, it's not the end of the world, so long as it ends with good legislation. In terms of the ACA, nothing wrong with fighting this battle on principal, just like a lot of the discussion here. The only difference is, the worse thing that can happen here, is someone may get their feelings hurt, but if Congress gets it wrong, we can suffer for years to come. Again, what is going on right now with the NSA is outrageous, and it is a result of people not standing on principal and fighting. As we are finding out daily, it can always get worse, and it isn't easy to undo.

We can look at the Great Depression and make an educated guess as to what would have happened. Ultimately however you're right.

There is a difference between "fighting" and grinding shit to a halt. You make your argument, get your point noted and move along. Of course you'll "suffer" at the hands of the majority thus is the fate of the minority and nothing will change that that. I used to think that compromise leads to more reasoned legislation, growing up has shown that to be absolute bullshit. What it does however is trick the population into thinking that it was "their" idea and makes them less likely to rebel violently against it which I guess is close enough.

Yes there have been shut downs before and they were bad. The idea that it wasn't the end of the world is. . .ill defined. I could point out a few dozen genocides over the last century and if I can use the fact that the world didn't end as code for all's well that ends well I think we should discuss Nazi Germany. It was bad, it was bad for the economy, it was bad for our international standing and it was potentially bad for our credit rating (again).

What's going on with the ACA is growing pains which happen, it is not the result of people standing firm if anything it's the result of people not falling the fuck in line and helping. It's your country too once you realize you can't win it's your job to make it suck as little as possible or don't you understand how a team works?

 

[coastal-boy]

Health Insurance premiums are up 131% over the decade from 1999-2009

http://business.time.com/2009/09/16/health-insurance-premiums-up-131-in-last-ten-years/

It appears that this rate has not slowed.

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.wipp.org/resource/resmgr/Healthcare/Health_Reform_and_Jobs.pdf

What makes it worse is that employers are being asked to pick up larger and larger proportion of these costs

http://kff.org/report-section/2013-summary-of-findings/

Obamacare hasn't kicked in yet...so this must be the GOP's plan...invest heavily into any company's that has a guaranteed 113%-131% increase in revenue.

 

[jeninflorida]

why don't you people just get a job? if you devoted just 10% of the time spend seeking out new welfare .....

 

[jeninflorida]

Actually, Obamacare is literally the opposite of that. Where are you getting your information? The law literally forbids doctors to discontinue treatment unless the patient requires it. You can no longer be denied treatment for any of the reasons that you've listed above, such as age, weight, gender, or preexisting conditions.

I'm genuinely confused as to why you think this. Because it's the actual opposite of reality. The bill is available for free to read in it's entirety.

of course you want more welfare cuz you is da king of slackers

 

[BotanyBoy]

A little brevity:
Obama and Democrats made a cynical political calculation to lie to the American people, thinking it was worth lying to Americans about their freedom of choice and chance their wrath in order to achieve their 100 year old progressive goal to move towards a single payer (Socialist) health care system.

We already decided to socialize HC when we decided not to let the indigent die outside of the ER.

What are you and the other fucking retards in the GOP not understanding about that? IT'S FUCKING OVER YOU MORONS, YOU FUCKING LOST A LONG LONG TIME AGO YOU ALREADY SUPPORT AND PAY FOR THE MOST EXPENSIVE, BROKEN, SOCIALIZED HC ON EARTH. The only possible reason you could have to support our previous system is that you liked republican interest gouging the shit out the tax payer for every penny they possibly can.


Annnnnd vette response....

http://ozhouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/alex-jones.png

Reality...he's a bigger yellow bellied chicken shit than that, mother fucker hides behind iggy b/c he can't come up shit except a fuckin' opinion when you get down to brass tacks.

 

[jeninflorida]

yet obama has the death camps

on the endless obamacare dribble from the socialist mental fuck-tards

 

[CandiCame]

yet obama has the death camps

on the endless obamacare dribble from the socialist mental fuck-tards

You know, I've heard this phrase in real life and I still have no idea what it means. No one has ever explained it to me. They just ask me the question when I'm skimming and explaining the ACA to them. "Are their death camps?" And I have to stop and be like, "You mean like Nazis? Or those Japanese camps that we had here at the same time? ...no. Why would you ask me that?" But I can't imagine that's what they actually mean because they always just look really embarrassed when I answer. And don't give me a reason that they asked regardless of how long I stare at them. And I'm only allowed to stare for so long now because my boss got mad at me for creepily staring at customers.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You know, I've heard this phrase in real life and I still have no idea what it means. No one has ever explained it to me.

I'm still waiting to hear how Obamacare ruined the greatest health care system ever. None of the spineless fucks on the right wing can come up with anything but "SOCIALISM EVIL RAWR!!!!".

I think it's because they are full of shit.

 

[CandiCame]

I'm still waiting to hear how Obamacare ruined the greatest health care system ever. None of the spineless fucks on the right wing can come up with anything but "SOCIALISM EVIL RAWR!!!!".

I think it's because they are full of shit.

Yeah, but my clients weren't political, they were actually scared. It wasn't anger they were expressing, it was fear. They also thought that they were going to be implanted with tracking chips. Because apparently they thought that the government could afford that. I have no idea where they're hearing this stuff. And like I said, it wasn't an angry, "How dare they do that!" it was a genuine "Are we going to be safe?" fear. And I will admit that I live in a region where people are generally less educated than most of America. But just because they're stupid doesn't mean that they're bad people. They work hard, manual labor jobs, like mining to support their families. They don't deserve to be pelted with made-up bullshit to fear. Whoever is spreading this is actively hurting people.

 

[about_average]

And I will admit that I live in a region where people are generally less educated than most of America. But just because they're stupid doesn't mean that they're bad people.

Careful, there's a big difference between uneducated (lack of schooling) and stupid.