Scream it out! Roe v. Wade edition

[KatieDoes]

i think you’re right. the best thing to do here is drop the “conservatism” debate and speak frankly. since this forum is about abortion, i’ll limit my comments to that topic.

i have a moral objection to abortion, but i don’t think that criminalizing abortion is the best way to govern. i don’t care to further punish someone who is likely already been through a life changing, traumatic ordeal. further, it’s easy to see how polarizing this issue is and how it rips us apart and i care more about the future of our country than i care about having my way. while i’d like for there never to be another abortion again, that’s my personal view and i realize that’s not a realistic public policy. imho, there should be reasonable parameters on when an abortion is legal upon which a majotity of people in this country can agree. i also think there should be honest and meaningful effort to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

that’s my two cents. agree or disagree, ok. that’s your opinion.

I’m not sure how to break this to you, but you’re a pro choice lib, at least on this issue. Pro choice isn’t necessarily pro abortion, it’s the assurance that the choice is left to the pregnant person and their doctor.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

i like aussie’s dissolving vas deferens block idea. kinda like a male iud, but it melts.

Just for the record: I am vehemently against forced birth control. I don't care about sex, gender, religion, disability, race, etc.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

What if I just don’t want to be pregnant? There doesn’t have to be extreme examples.

Exactly.

Being pregnant sucks!

 

[aussiegeekygal]

You know what drove me nuts about being pregnant?

The people who would come up and touch my belly.
No asking.
No warning.

And so I would extend my hands and hold their midsection until they removed theirs.

Pregnant people are not community property!

 

[aussiegeekygal]

I actually loved it. I felt like a sexy goddess and wanted to fuck all the time.
It’s BIRTH that was like… nope.

I loved my first pregnancy.

The second one was  awful

I wanted to die almost every day because I was so miserable.

 

[parker77]

I’m not sure how to break this to you, but you’re a pro choice lib, at least on this issue. Pro choice isn’t necessarily pro abortion, it’s the assurance that the choice is left to the pregnant person and their doctor.

i think you broke it to me just fine. i hear ya, however, i don’t think the doctor and pregnant person should have unfettered authority on what they decide.

thank you for your patience with me.

 

[parker77]

Just for the record: I am vehemently against forced birth control. I don't care about sex, gender, religion, disability, race, etc.

i’m against forced birth control as well. i’m guessing Fara is too ….maybe? regardless, i remain intrigued by the melting male iud.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

Was that your recent one? I remember you struggling with it.

Yeah. It was brutal. I was on iv fluids for almost the whole thing.

 

[Stillrandy]

Where does this end? What if the father raped her? What if the pregnancy threatens the mother's life? Does a father get to say, "Well she never fucked me again, so I don't care about her. But that's my baby and she'll birth it of it kills her!"? And I promise you some dude out there WILL exercise this just to spite some woman who stopped returning his booty calls.

Can you legally coerce the mother to give up smoking or alchohol? To control when, where and with whom she seeks medical care? Can you dictate her nutritional intake? Force her into a fitness regime?

What about driving? Potentially high risk activity, after all.

And why wait for a pregnancy? If any sex could result in pregnancy, why not assert this right over all women, all the time? Surely putting your dick in her is claim staked?

And once the child is born, does it go the other way? You now have a significant financial responsibility. Women have some small recourse for child support, but what if you have heart disease? Your survival may be essential to that child's well being. Can mom force you to diet and exercise? Can we give her legal recourse to dictate you health outcomes? What about employment decisions? Shouldn't you quitting a job require a consent document?

I don't imagine there is a 'one-size-fits-all' answer to the many situations and hypothetical outcomes you mention. I only want to see the father/man be part of the conversation about abortion. Which as far as I can tell is not happening.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

The aspect of all this that confounds me is the absence of discussion about the part played by the father. Even if that male is 'only the sperm donor' or whatever. The father(s) need to be:

• held accountable for their actions.
• included in the discussion of whether or not the mother has an abortion, even to signing a consent document.
• able to oppose the abortion or insist upon it if so desired.

Of course, if the father is unavailable or unwilling, it is up to the mother. I don't know the law on this subject, but the almost complete lack of conversation about the role/responsibility of the male/father bothers me.

It’s not his decision what she does with her body. I think you really mean well with your post, but I also think it’s misogynistic and just disgusting.

Men choose to have sex and choose whether or not to have protected sex. If a pregnancy occurs, her body is the one that will bear all of the consequences and he has zero right to have a say in what she does with her body.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

I don't imagine there is a 'one-size-fits-all' answer to the many situations and hypothetical outcomes you mention. I only want to see the father/man be part of the conversation about abortion. Which as far as I can tell is not happening.

That's not answering the question.

We're talking about bodily autonomy.

You mentioned the baby needing someone's uterus in order to live. It's worth exploring this because it's quite important.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

A lot of these guys are making the argument that abortion is all about control for us

 

[KatieDoes]

i think you broke it to me just fine. i hear ya, however, i don’t think the doctor and pregnant person should have unfettered authority on what they decide.

thank you for your patience with me.

To abort a pregnancy is almost always a very difficult decision, and it will never, ever, be made easier by the interjection of Congress into it.

 

[parker77]

To abort a pregnancy is almost always a very difficult decision, and it will never, ever, be made easier by the interjection of Congress into it.

while i’ll never know or fully appreciate the difficulty of the decision, i appreciate what you’re saying. to help me better understand your position, what would you write as an abortion law, if anything? i promise i won’t argue about your response or disagree in any way. i just want to know what you think, if you are willing to share. thanks.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

while i’ll never know or fully appreciate the difficulty of the decision, i appreciate what you’re saying. to help me better understand your position, what would you write as an abortion law, if anything? i promise i won’t argue about your response or disagree in any way. i just want to know what you think, if you are willing to share. thanks.

You didn’t ask me, but I will speak up and say: Abortion should be on demand.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

I'll bite.

As someone who has been involved to make a decision in the third trimester, please don't put restrictions on abortion at all. No doctor in their right mind will terminate a pregnancy in the third trimester without cause...

But the added loopholes are excruciating when your baby is dead.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Aussie, I wish I had a care react for that. The heart eyes just don’t convey the right sentiment. I’m so sorry you had to make that decision, and I’m so fucking mad that people want to make it even worse for women in that situation.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

Aussie, I wish I had a care react for that. The heart eyes just don’t convey the right sentiment. I’m so sorry you had to make that decision, and I’m so fucking mad that people want to make it even worse for women in that situation.

Thanks

This baby girl was so loved and so wanted and of all the things in my life, that was the hardest moment to navigate.

I get the emotion and desire to want to protect the unborn. But you've really got to trust that these babies have the best advocate in their mother. She is wise. She is strong. She is capable of deciding this.

It's a humbling experience to recognize that you don't know what's best and it takes courage to step aside and let people decide for themselves. Any restrictions, no matter how well intentioned are going to add to the trauma of an already awful situation.

Please don't try to make abortion comfortable by adding restrictions. It may seem moral, but it really isn't.

Abortion sucks

But it's necessary

 

[Dribble]

If I get cancer...it is MY choice what to do...including how to die. Why should it be different for any medical procedure?

 

[KatieDoes]

while i’ll never know or fully appreciate the difficulty of the decision, i appreciate what you’re saying. to help me better understand your position, what would you write as an abortion law, if anything? i promise i won’t argue about your response or disagree in any way. i just want to know what you think, if you are willing to share. thanks.

It should be on demand, and that decision should be solely left to the pregnant person, with the advice and consent of whomever she chooses to consult with. Be that her doctor, partner, family, etc. And that right should be guaranteed at the federal level, and codified into law. So we aren’t here again with the next set of SCOTUS justices.

 

[AveryElle]

They are bad people, acting in bad faith. What is don't understand is how so many people start from the perspective of cruelty, a desire to hurt and punish (and not in the fun way we like to talk about around here), and just general hate.

I can disagree with someone's way of life, the choices they make, or how best to promote things (this comment has zero to do with homosexuality); but even if it's not for me, I don't have any want or desire to hurt someone for their choices. That is what I don't understand the most.

You don't believe in abortion, great. Don't have one, advocate for your family and friends not to have one if in that situation. Why on earth you think you should regulate the behavior of people you don't know, will never meet, and whom will never have an effect of your life is a mindset I can't understand or get behind (I do know why, just don't want to open even another can of worms).

The cruelty is the point.

 

[AveryElle]

is infertility in women that high after using birth control, because i had no idea?

Birth control has not been shown to cause infertility. Whether that’s due to a lack of research, it’s currently not a thing. In fact, birth control can help fertility in some women by balancing hormones or suppressing endometriosis symptoms. Infertility is caused about 30% of the time by the male and 30% of the time by the female.

Just had to chime in as a long time fertility patient who was on birth control for half my life and was absolutely not the issue in our efforts.

Also, abortions do not cause breast cancer.

 

[KatieDoes]

"Serious question: how do you feel about organ donation? If someone doesn't want their liver given to another person when they die, but there is someone that  really needs it: what's to be done?"

The question feels like a 'Tu quoque' argument and I'm not sure how it relates to the thread issue. There are any number of moral/ethical/legal situations in which one's opinion may appear to be inconsistent with the topic at hand.

In any case, I am in favor of organ donation after death. I hope someone might benefit from my liver or whatever is found usable after I pass. I would appreciate it if the doctor(s) would make sure I was completely dead before proceeding however....

No, I was talking about live organ donation. Like if I needed a kidney and you were a match. Or bone marrow, or blood, or a portion of your lung or liver.

Sure…. There’s some risk to you, but I really want it.

 

[KatieDoes]

Her body, certainly. Some thought needs to be given to the baby; after all, the baby is one who will live or not live depending on the outcome of the abortion decision. And the baby has a mother and a father. The baby is as much the father's as the mother's. And that, for me, is why the father should have a role in the discussion. For me, also, the father's rights and responsibilities do not end when he 'deposits' the sperm as someone above called it. All I am suggesting is that the father not be left out of the conversation....

There is certainly empathy to be had for a man that makes a poor choice in where he deposits his sperm. I can absolutely understand feeling badly for a man that ended up fertilizing an egg inside a woman that doesn’t consider his thoughts and feelings. However, his lack of effectively vetting a woman before having unprotected sex with her does not entitle him to part ownership of her body. Not even temporarily.

Perhaps you don’t fully grasp the medical risks and toll that pregnancy can have on a woman’s body? We have the highest maternal mortality rates in the developed world. We don’t have universal health care. We don’t have a system in place to ensure a way for a low income family to afford to provide care to a disabled or special needs child.

Only the person with the embryo embedded in their body has the authority to decide whether or not to risk their body to continuing that pregnancy to term. Period.

Women are entire people, not incubators.

 

[parker77]

thank you all for your responses. your honesty and openness are invaluable.