Sexless Marriage

[victorious]

Reply to your post

PPlwatching,

You are a very astute person, who takes the time to read everything and analyze it thoroughly.
No where did I say in my posts that I was sending her to her friends.
What I did say, was that I have given her the land, and that I was going to leave the house for some time and go stay with some of my friends. At least for a short time- just to get a so-called cooling off period.

Also, right now, divorce is not an option. I will have to wait for several more years, until I reach SS retirement age and so does she, before I can make any clear decisions or move on. That will take at least six years.

For now, I will take it day by day, that is all I can do.

Again,
thanks for your thoughtful comments.

My point is that you said that the posts following his, mine included, were made without reading past the first page. It seems ironic, and sarcasm worthy, that you didn't read my post before making that broad generalization.

With respect to your points here, I believe that either you misread his post or I did. He did say that he gave her land in another state. He said that he has contacted a friend and will go stay with them. Unless I'm looking at the wrong post, he doesn't say that he's pawned her off on his friends.

To the OP :

If I have misunderstood your situation, please say so. You have said that neither you or your wife have any assets, and only your social security income to live on. I assume when you say "no assets" that you mean the land that you are giving her has only negligible value. You said that she has no income for two years. What do you expect her to do for money if you are divorced or even separated? Unless I've misunderstood your situation it seems to me that you don't have enough income to support both of you separately. It is unlikely that a divorce court will leave your wife with no means of supporting herself. it is also possible that the courts will frown on you moving out and leaving her with no means of supporting herself and will garnish your SS payments. It would seem that things are far from over. You might do well to reconsider, or at least to speak with a divorce attorney before moving out.

You may have no choice but to stay married regardless of how you feel, much less the advice and "support" you are getting from people with no skin in the game. If you have no desire to continue trying to reconnect with your wife, then you may need to prepare yourself for a couple of years of living with her until she has her own income. Only you can decide if you are willing to forgive her and continue trying to re-establish love and intimacy in your marriage.

I wish you clarity in your decisions and the best of luck.

 

[satindesire]

My point is that you said that the posts following his, mine included, were made without reading past the first page. It seems ironic, and sarcasm worthy, that you didn't read my post before making that broad generalization.

With respect to your points here, I believe that either you misread his post or I did. He did say that he gave her land in another state. He said that he has contacted a friend and will go stay with them. Unless I'm looking at the wrong post, he doesn't say that he's pawned her off on his friends.

I wasn't referencing you AT ALL, since you didn't post after the OP did in his update, you posted before. You're being oversensitive and taking what I said about people not paying attention to the entire thread like I attacked you, when what I said had absolutely nothing to do with you or your posts. So no, your posts weren't included in my statement.

Relax. I was referencing people who posted AFTER the OP when he updated, not before. Geeze. I thought I made that pretty darn obvious since I quoted the OP and not you when I told him that people didn't pay attention to his update and only tended to read through the first page.

Go back and re-read my post. It had nothing to do with you or anything you said.

 

[victorious]

Quick Update

Hello everyone- have not had much of a chance to reply this week due to work.

Here is an update:

I have not been at the house since Monday. Stopped by yesterday to check on things. She is still the same. No change. Still threatens me with divorce- calls me a controlling person- doesn't think she did anything wrong- doesn't listen- or maybe can't hear- example- while getting more clothes to take with me, she asked where something was. I told her. She had to ask the same question 3 times- when I told her where it was and said the words slowly , she got angry and said I was making fun of her. This has happened before.
I think she may be developing Alzheimer's, but can't say for sure because she refuses to see a doc.

Still taking it day by day- do have my back-up plan and am getting it ready.

PPlwatching,

You are a very astute person, who takes the time to read everything and analyze it thoroughly.
No where did I say in my posts that I was sending her to her friends.
What I did say, was that I have given her the land, and that I was going to leave the house for some time and go stay with some of my friends. At least for a short time- just to get a so-called cooling off period.

Also, right now, divorce is not an option. I will have to wait for several more years, until I reach SS retirement age and so does she, before I can make any clear decisions or move on. That will take at least six years.

For now, I will take it day by day, that is all I can do.

Again,
thanks for your thoughtful comments.

 

[victorious]

Sexless Marriage Update for this weekend

I came home and stayed in the house we rent in a separate bedroom Friday Night so I could wash all of my clothes and prepare my food. Since I couldn't sleep, I got up around 1:30 am and went into the kitchen to cook and prepare my food. Boy, was that a mistake.

Later that morning, when the wife got up, she was complaining and angry that I woke her up and should not have gotten up until she got up, as she was not able to sleep.

I disturbed her beauty sleep!! Aw, poor baby!!

She tried to pick a fight, and I did not allow myself to get trapped by her manipulative ways. I ignored her completely when she talked, and went about my business. When I was finished with everything, I repacked, took everything I needed for the week, and left again to stay with a friend of mine.

I did not call her at all- and still do not call her. She calls when she has a "emergency" which really is not an emergency at all. Just her way of trying to irritate me. Thus, I let the phone go to voice mail, and then will listen and then decide if it is really an "emergency".

I have moved on- am still working and now starting my own business that I have finished training for.

 

[victorious]

New Update- working on making marriage work

Hello all,

My wife called me Monday night and asked me to come home. I went home after work, and she had a whole new attitude- she and I both apologized, and made an agreement to try and work things out. I have to say that so far, things are better. Right now, we are taking it one day at a time.

 

[bailadora]

Hello all,

My wife called me Monday night and asked me to come home. I went home after work, and she had a whole new attitude- she and I both apologized, and made an agreement to try and work things out. I have to say that so far, things are better. Right now, we are taking it one day at a time.

Good for you! With her change of attitude, now might be a good time to seek couples counseling. I know you've mentioned $$$ being tight, but IRC, some therapists are willing to work with people on a sliding scale. It might be something worth looking into.

Best of luck to you both.

 

[UnfetteredMale]

I was in a similar place some years back. Ultimately it came down to two things...were both of us willing and able to go outside of ourselves and work to make each other happy...and were our personalities really compatible enough to make it work.

In my case the answers were no, but in the end my life is much better. Ultimately, we didn't want the same things in our lives, and there was no bridge to close that gap.

It takes two, and two who want to find a middle ground. I hope it works out for you. Good luck!

 

[pplwatching]

.....

 

[victorious]

Update

Things are going OK and we are taking it one day at a time. I have begun to notice that my wife is now starting to forget things, and has difficulty remembering things or where she put things. Example- this am- she was certain she had taken out a bagel from a bag- there were six in it-to eat. I told her she did not take one out. She got irritated and told me that yes she did- then said she did not remember if she did or didn't. Turns out she did not. She is also forgetting where she put things. She is of Asian descent. Maybe she is developing Alzheimer's? This is starting to be a regular occurrence. I think this has been causing some of the issues.

 

[SweetErika]

Things are going OK and we are taking it one day at a time. I have begun to notice that my wife is now starting to forget things, and has difficulty remembering things or where she put things. Example- this am- she was certain she had taken out a bagel from a bag- there were six in it-to eat. I told her she did not take one out. She got irritated and told me that yes she did- then said she did not remember if she did or didn't. Turns out she did not. She is also forgetting where she put things. She is of Asian descent. Maybe she is developing Alzheimer's? This is starting to be a regular occurrence. I think this has been causing some of the issues.

Alzheimer's and similar conditions can definitely cause/add to anger and mood swings.

The bottom line is she needs to get checked out right away because there are treatments and even clinical trials that could really help her if she does have Alzheimer's or another disorder.

 

[victorious]

Update

Even though we are trying to get back and work things out, it seems I am giving and giving, and not getting anything back. Whatever she wants- I get her. However, I have asked her over and over for just some alone time together- and all I get are excuses- too tired (planting, etc), can't because it is too cold outside (even though we have a heated house), the dogs need my attention, and on and on and on.

The last time we had any kind of physical alone time together was over 4 months ago.

That is way too long for me.

I am considering going and finding someone I can talk to, and if it happens, develop a relationship with.

I seem to be doing all of the giving and not getting anything in return. Not even a kiss. I try to kiss her, she is too busy, or has something to do.

When I ask her why we can't or don't have any time together, her response is "I'm an Asian and we are not very demonstrative and loving."

I am getting to the point of just walking away now, and forgetting the whole thing.

There is only so much masturbating I can do myself to satisfy my needs.

 

[pplwatching]

.....

 

[subwannabe]

It would be a great story if you got back together and it all just worked out. I'm all for that but in your case I really think this ended a long time ago and you are just in denial. I really don't think it's ever going to work out the way you want, ever. I can sympathize with not wanting to bail if she is having medical issues but I'm not really so sure that is the real issue here, even if it were true. I think you are letting your wishful thinking get the best of you and it seems absurd to me to keep the marriage but cheat to get some satisfaction. You are right, you are giving, giving, and giving and getting nothing in return and that isn't going to change no matter how much wishful thinking you want to do.

 

[victorious]

Reply to your post

pplwatching,

I thank you for your response.
I wanted to address one of the questions you raised in your reply.

You asked how open she was to non-sexual or sexual affection in the past.

When we first got married in the late 90's,(we were both in our mid 40's, both never been previously married, and both people who did not have any prior sexual relationships) she was a completely different person. She was very physical, always showing affection, and was always touching me. As for sex, we would have it 3-5 times a week- sometimes, on the weekend- we had it the whole weekend and never even got dressed. She was my "tiger", and I her "panda bear."

This lasted for over 7 years, and we were very happy. I was semi-retired and still making a high five figure income working from home.

Things abruptly changed in mid 2000's when we had difficulty with a house we purchased that had construction and environmental problems, caused me to get sick from being allergic to chemicals found in the house (I almost died) and having to enter into litigation.

I did recover, but in the end, we wound up with no money left ( all of my previously earned retirement money- quite substantial- was gone- used for medicals-living costs- legal fees. While sick, I had to stop working and wasn't able to work for over 3 years. I literally had to start all over again with nothing. That is when things fell apart, and have gotten worse since that time. She stopped showing any physical affection then, of any kind, and always used the problem of losing everything I had on my poor judgement. In fact, whenever she gets angry, she throws the problem back in my face and always blames me for what happened. I have told her time and time again that I am sorry, and have tried to apologize, but she is unwilling to forgive and move on. She blames me for losing the house, having to rent, and for losing all of the money.

I am slowly trying to build myself back up, and am doing it without her support- emotionally or physically. I basically concentrate on my job, and spend very little time around her so I do not have to constantly be put down or belittled.

Whenever she asks for something, or wants to do something (she loves gardening), I am right there for her and give her whats she needs and support her in what she wants to do.

When I try to do something, she ridicules me, tells me I am not going to be successful, and never even shows any sign of emotional support for what I am doing.

Thanks for listening.

I know it can be frustrating when things don't happen as quickly as we might hope, but sometimes it takes time to get past the road blocks to communication and intimacy. Sometimes the rough patches in marriage last longer than others. Don't throw in the towl too quickly if you can help it.

It may be important to look at the whole picture here, in light of her forgetful spells you spoke about. How open to "non sexual" physical affection was she in the past? I am also married to an Asian and I know exactly what she's talking about. It is extremely rare for my in laws to show much of any outward signs of physical affection towards each other. On the other hand, my wife has gotten used to being much more physically (non sexually) affectionate in our own marriage. I think it's harder for "first generation" Asian Americans. However, if she's been more open to phsyical expressions of affection and intimacy in the past then a change now could be either part of unresolved feelings or a part of the onset of mental illness.

In the past my wife and I got into a kind of rut where when she didn't want sex, she became very reluctant to have non sexual intimacy because she felt that it always had to lead to sex. It took a long time for both of us to realize that we have a need for intimacy that isn't sexual, and that we both have to be aware of how the other feels when little things like back rubs and kisses appear to be escalating towards sex. It may help if you can let her know that you understand that sex may be off the table right now, but that romantic intimacy doesn't have to be sexaul and is equally important.

I know this must be difficult for you, but in light of her forgetful spells you may need to focus your attention on figuring out if some sort of mental health problem is setting in. That won't lessen your need for intimacy and connection with her, but it may bring you some peace of mind knowing that this could be completely out of her control. You may also find that medication can correct some of this.

I think it's important for her to be checked out by her doctor. Impaired mental function can be a symptom of a lot of problems. Try not to lose hope. If you need an ear you can PM me.

 

[SweetErika]

Even though we are trying to get back and work things out, it seems I am giving and giving, and not getting anything back. Whatever she wants- I get her. However, I have asked her over and over for just some alone time together- and all I get are excuses- too tired (planting, etc), can't because it is too cold outside (even though we have a heated house), the dogs need my attention, and on and on and on.

The last time we had any kind of physical alone time together was over 4 months ago.

That is way too long for me.

I am considering going and finding someone I can talk to, and if it happens, develop a relationship with.

I seem to be doing all of the giving and not getting anything in return. Not even a kiss. I try to kiss her, she is too busy, or has something to do.

When I ask her why we can't or don't have any time together, her response is "I'm an Asian and we are not very demonstrative and loving."

I am getting to the point of just walking away now, and forgetting the whole thing.

There is only so much masturbating I can do myself to satisfy my needs.

If you are even a somewhat caring, honest, respectful person, you will walk away first, and then try to find someone to satisfy your needs.

Regardless of who your wife is or what she does, she deserves to have you end your relationship with her completely before you move on so SHE can move on with her own life freely. Yep, maybe her new life will be miserable, but then again, maybe she'll change and/or find someone who's really compatible with her. At the very least, you need to tell her you're planning on getting your needs met elsewhere so she can decide what she'd like to do. You deserve the opportunity to get your needs met, and your wife deserves the same.

 

[victorious]

Response

I agree with you wholeheartedly-
I intend to let her know- she already has told me she wants to move on- and wants to end the marriage- I will respect her wish- but don't want to kick her to the curb, so to speak with nothing. I will wait untikl I can at least give her something, or when she gets her SS in a few more years.

If you are even a somewhat caring, honest, respectful person, you will walk away first, and then try to find someone to satisfy your needs.

Regardless of who your wife is or what she does, she deserves to have you end your relationship with her completely before you move on so SHE can move on with her own life freely. Yep, maybe her new life will be miserable, but then again, maybe she'll change and/or find someone who's really compatible with her. At the very least, you need to tell her you're planning on getting your needs met elsewhere so she can decide what she'd like to do. You deserve the opportunity to get your needs met, and your wife deserves the same.

 

[victorious]

Coming to terms with reality

Today, we had planned- and I say had planned because it won't happen- to have some time together. And, sadly to say, it didn't happen. I am ready and was looking forward to it- however, as usual, she came up with an excuse not to- "I'm too tired from playing with the dog ( a dog she wanted to adopt that as a stray came to the house seven months ago, and that she took in without asking me if it was okay). Every weekend we have planned to have time together- for the past 6 weekends- and every weekend I get another excuse- too tired, too cold, angry, etc. etc. etc.

I am now realizing that the marriage ended several years ago- when I did not give her a portion of a settlement we received from a lawsuit at that time- even though the money received was to provide a roof over our heads and pay for our essential needs. She is still angry to this day for my not giving her any of the money - calls it being selfish and no caring about her as a person.

I am also now realizing that she is a great manipulator- and I have fallen for it.

In retrospect, I should have given her all of the money and walked away then from the marriage. Now I wish I had.

 

[pplwatching]

.....

 

[victorious]

Response to your post

pplwatching,
I want to clarify for you that even though it was planned and did not happen- I did not put any pressure on her at all.
She is the one who always says we will "do it" and then backs out. She puts the pressure on herself- I just want intimacy- even just hand holding, being together, even just lying with her naked and holding her and cuddling with her like we used to.
We don't even hold each other in bed at night like we used to because she feels the need to hold the little dog (a terrier who has non-stop energy) and focus more attention on him than with me. I just turn away and sleep facing away from her. And, if I turn to face her, she complains that I will wake up the little terrier.

Right now, I will take the slightest form of intimacy I can get her from her- non-sexual would be great. Even that she is not able or wanting to give.

While it is possible that this is all about a grievance over money, IMHO it seems unlikely to be the most likely thing that's going on. Try not to let your frustration keep you from continuing to make the effort. No one wants to feel like they're pushing a stone up a hill, but if you stop trying then hope is certainly lost. Perhaps looking at things a little differently might offer steps towards a solution.

When she makes plans with you, does she seem to be agreeing in good faith? If she seems to be genuinely interested, at the time that you make plans, then it might be that as the time approaches she becomes hesitant to follow through. The reason could be as simple as insecurity or uncertainty about what will happen when you get together. As the moment arrives, there can be a sense of reluctance to follow through for no other reason than a fear that it might be awkward or uncomfortable. It's not entirely clear what you mean when you say that you plan to spend time together. I lived in a sexless marriage for long enough to know that the need for sex is strong and can be the 800 lb gorilla in the room. If there is an expectation of sexual activity, either agreed or implied, then that could be one possible underlying reason why she backs out of your dates. Not because she won't have sex with you, per se, but because the expectation of sex can be a turn off.

One possible solution is not to put so much emphasis on setting aside a time to connect with each other. You may have more success building intimacy in your daily life during more natural moments. Little things from making breakfast to showing an interest in the dogs can help rebuild a rapport with her. Time spent together throwing a ball for the dogs to fetch can be a great low-key moment to make small talk and get communication started again. Show an interest in her beyond a need for sex (not that you don't already). From there you might find that some non sexual spontaneity takes you one step further. Sitting down to watch a TV show together, helping with the gardening, or giving the dogs a bath together can make you feel more like a functioning couple. That may take the focus and emphasis off of those "time agreements", and allow it to flow more naturally.

I know how hard it is to forgo sexual contact, or to keep it from being an issue during the moments when you are reconnecting. I've personally been through that. All that I can suggest is that you not look at the situation as giving, giving, giving. Your financial situation aside, if you want to rebuild your marriage then you may find solace thinking of it as something that you are willing to do for the chance to salvage your marriage. Only you know if you are willing to look at it that way.

Once again, good luck.

 

[SweetErika]

Today, we had planned- and I say had planned because it won't happen- to have some time together. And, sadly to say, it didn't happen. I am ready and was looking forward to it- however, as usual, she came up with an excuse not to- "I'm too tired from playing with the dog ( a dog she wanted to adopt that as a stray came to the house seven months ago, and that she took in without asking me if it was okay). Every weekend we have planned to have time together- for the past 6 weekends- and every weekend I get another excuse- too tired, too cold, angry, etc. etc. etc.

I am now realizing that the marriage ended several years ago- when I did not give her a portion of a settlement we received from a lawsuit at that time- even though the money received was to provide a roof over our heads and pay for our essential needs. She is still angry to this day for my not giving her any of the money - calls it being selfish and no caring about her as a person.

I am also now realizing that she is a great manipulator- and I have fallen for it.

In retrospect, I should have given her all of the money and walked away then from the marriage. Now I wish I had.

Pplwatching is making some great points, Vic, and normally I'm all for following that kind of advice, trying to save the marriage, etc.

However, it appears neither you nor your wife are committed to making your marriage work. And while I'm sure your wife DOES have lots of good qualities (e.g. it seems she really cares about dogs and has healthy hobbies like gardening) that you're just not highlighting here because you're hurt and angry, it sounds like she has some very important negative traits that she's unwilling/unable to change. One of my husband's bosses is a whiner, liar, manipulator, outrageously selfish, greedy and inauthentic woman who will probably be just like your wife in another 15-20 years. Some people are just like that, or become like that, for whatever reason(s).

There's a time to put everything you have into trying, and there's a time to call it quits. It sounds like you need to choose the latter option so you can enjoy the rest of your life without all of the drama this relationship brings. If that's your choice, I'd suggest protecting yourself as much as possible. Go talk to a divorce attorney (most places even have free legal clinics run by the Bar Association or law school) about protecting yourself and taking steps to get your ducks in a row before you file for divorce (or she does). I'm talking about things like setting up your own bank account, establishing your own credit and protecting your assets and stuff. And watch your finances VERY carefully because people who are manipulative and greedy often funnel off money if they think a divorce is a possibility. I'm sure you don't want your wife to be left penniless and homeless, but you don't want to be in that situation, either, especially when you have relatively little working time to recover financially!

 

[victorious]

Thank you everyone

A special thank you to pplwatching and Sweet Erica,

I guess I have to admit that yes, it is over and it is time for me to move on.

It's really very sad- she went from being a warm, loving person who cared for me and loved me, to someone I don't even know. Her idea of giving me "hug" is to touch my shoulders- no embrace at all.

Also, she has not kissed me for over 5 months. Doesn't even want to-

I will follow the advice and seek assistance from some of my law friends.

If not a divorce right away- maybe a trial separation/legal separation.

Thanks

 

[subwannabe]

Vic, you've got to let go! You're still hoping and hoping and hoping by not getting a divorce right away and wanting to just do a trial separation, or putting it off a few more years until she can collect social security. Do you have to get hit over the head with a frying pan to finally realize that over is over? Do you really think that if you had thrown a bunch of money at her several years ago that it would have put you down a different path? No!!!! The lady you married is gone and she ain't never commin back. You are living with a life-sucking imposter. You're not a spring chicken anymore. Every year you delay turning your life around is another year of letting her suck the life out of you. You are in quicksand man. Get out as quick as you can before that hole sucks every bit of life that's left in you. You are virtually on the cusp of life or death. The choice is yours. Fight for life!!!

 

[pplwatching]

.....

 

[SweetErika]

Unless you've over simplified your financial situation it's not clear to me how you can afford to divorce. You live in a community property state, not to mention that California seems to favor you paying to keep her "in the manner to which she is accustomed.". A fixed income would seem to limit your options. Hopefully your atty can help you figure something out.

If you can afford to divorce and maintain two households then you are of course free to do so and I wish you the best. If on the other hand you find that you must stay married for financial reasons or if you simply choose to stay and keep trying, then I'd encourage you to keep making the effort even if it seems to be pointless right now. You can always stay and do nothing, or perhaps persistence will help turn things around eventually.

Please feel free to send a PM if you ever need someone to talk to. I don't follow this board very regularly.

Best wishes

From what I've read, spousal support is wholly up to the judge's discretion in CA and depends on many, many different factors. I haven't seen anything that tells me Vic would likely be forced to support two households, especially since it seems his wife does have the capacity to do some sort of job to support herself (at the very least, surely she could be a greeter at Walmart or something). Seniors and people with very few financial resources get divorced everyday in CA.

The bottom line is that the potential outcome of a divorce shouldn't make the OP stay in a miserable marriage, and he really needs to speak with an attorney who can advise him on the likely outcome(s) properly.

 

[DrGeniusWiener]

This is yet one more reason why marriage is a bad idea.