She's way way.... WAY out of my league. How do I handle her?

[Christopher2012]

This is where you ask her questions *hint hint* so that you can know shit about her.

The word "handle" bothers me too. I don't know why, but it does.

Oh shit, I'm screwed. haha

 

[njlauren]

So, I just parachuted into this thing, but I gotta say that I know how you feel. Due to some family issues that were completely separate but successive over twenty years, I had some serious confidence issues. I guess it was an "if my own family doesn't want me around..." type of thing. I met a woman who accepted me, and she was a beautiful, fun girl, but we ended up divorced. Wounded again. I ended up dated a succession of extremely beautiful (but manipulative and also wounded) women. Then I felt like I had a little power. I started to see myself the way others see me, and it felt good. But then I started using people and manipulating them the way I got manipulated. Eventually I learned what I should have known at 15: Be who you are, say what's on your mind, and have some confidence right out of the gate. I might blindly guess that the extended time it took to ask her out is one reason for the rejection. I've seen some pretty unattractive dudes end up with impossibly attractive, seemingly well-adjusted women. They were comfortable in their own skin, treated their women right, and knew they deserved a good relationship with a good woman as much as anybody. It seems impossible from where you are right now, but when it clicks, it's the easiest thing in the world.

One of the things that young men forget is that pretty girls often find it hard to get good dates. Most young men have fragile egos and they get intimidated by good looking women and therefore the guys are afraid to ask them out, or feel if they do get lucky the girl is going to dump them as soon as the quarterback or whoever asks them out. A very tall, pretty young women asked advice on a blog I read and post on about that, how boys literally told her they were intimidated by her, and I gave her my insight on this. The funny part is that the quarterback/pretty cheerleader couples generally don't go anywhere because can be a very shallow relationship, the guy asks her out because he feels he has to, or is all bravado, the girl is playing the role of needing to be with the 'cool' guy, and they find out there isn't much there. Friend of mine dated and married a woman who is just simply an incredible mix of looks, intelligence and talent (also has one of the most incredible senses of humor, including dirty jokes, i have ever seen), and he is not exactly Brad Pitt but they have a great marriage because they can be themselves with each other; she doesn't have to impress him, he loves her in a sweatshirt and jeans and she loves him for who he is, and they seem to have one heck of a relationship, and they have been together over 20 years.

 

[Miles Long]

So are we asking the new girl out on a date yet or what? Strike while the iron is hot, dude!

 

[njlauren]

Oh shit, I'm screwed. haha

Handling sounds like a term you use when dealing with a difficult relative or child, it implies a method of manipulating someone rather then actually having a relationship, like manipulating someone into a bad deal or something. Not saying you mean it that way, but it is what it comes off as.

Best way to get to know someone is simply to talk to them, you know nothing about her yet but you also haven't really done anything with her yet. I didn't know anything about the gal who became my wife when we met, she was just someone I had fun talking to.

I understand where you are coming from with the idea of not wanting to be friends, one of the worse putdowns I am afraid that girls tend to drop on guys is 'let's just be friends', frankly even if they are doing it to be nice it fucking hurts worse then being told 'let's break up'.

However, a couple of things, for your sake:

-Don't judge what happened with Mary a failure. I agree you shouldn't pin your hopes on her, or hang around her exclusively as a friend simply waiting for something to happen....but for your sake, if what you call her ambassador said was true, then you didn't strike out, she obviously thought highly of you but simply was someway 'working on' another guy. Even if you never do anything with her, you were not rejected outright, it was a matter of timing. I think Mary herself is holding the door open (whether you care or not), she wouldn't have told her friend she felt badly or even mention it to her if she hadn't felt anything for you. That is for your sake, I am not telling you you should pursue anything with her now or in the future.....

-I agree with others, the answer to getting into a romantic relationship is to be friends, it is how those bonds build up. I was a friend to my now wife long before we became 'an item', we did things together, I cooked for her, took her to some of my favorite restaurants, and talked a lot. A hot date for us was getting takeout chinese soup and sitting by the hudson river on a summer night in the west village and talking the night away. It is where the sparks start to fly and you see if you are interested in her and she in you. When I was dating texting didn't exist, cell phones were expensive and bulky so we didn't have that, it is an additional tool to keep in touch, so if you are texting back and forth that is a good thing.

-You tend to make everything into an exercise in immediacy I notice, as some said, you see things in black and white and absolutes, you are like either you are in a relationship or you aren't. There are intermediate steps, give the thing time to develop. If after X months you feel you aren't getting anywhere, then break it off, but give it time and let it flow. Instead of trying to manage it or trying to figure out what to do, let it happen. If it is going to work, it isn't because she is wowed by your master strokes, it is because she likes uyou for who you are, believe me. Girls aren't stupid, and they see through the subterfuge and the image you create pretty fast, being yourself is the way to go. Keep in mind that girls generally get interested in a guy before the guy even knows it, they see you before the image machine goes into action, before you try in your words to 'handle them', so all the acting and stuff isn't going to do much, other then show her you are interested, they already know the real you long before you ask them out, take it from me

 

[ohjanesays]

Best way to get to know someone is simply to talk to them, you know nothing about her yet but you also haven't really done anything with her yet. I didn't know anything about the gal who became my wife when we met, she was just someone I had fun talking to.

Good advice njlauren, but I suspect our dear Christopher will counter with how he cannot "simply" talk to girls or hold conversations. To you and I, if we like someone, our natural desire is to know more about the person, and by that we get to know the person by asking questions. For him, his mind completely blanks out. He can "handle" random conversation initiated by the girl, but once the spotlight turns to him to initiate conversation, he's a deer in headlights. Am I right, Chris?

I should moonlight as Christopher. Maybe throw in some of his mannerisms. "LOOK GUYS, you don't understand...." I am just kidding.

 

[Christopher2012]

Good advice njlauren, but I suspect our dear Christopher will counter with how he cannot "simply" talk to girls or hold conversations. To you and I, if we like someone, our natural desire is to know more about the person, and by that we get to know the person by asking questions. For him, his mind completely blanks out. He can "handle" random conversation initiated by the girl, but once the spotlight turns to him to initiate conversation, he's a deer in headlights. Am I right, Chris?

I should moonlight as Christopher. Maybe throw in some of his mannerisms. "LOOK GUYS, you don't understand...." I am just kidding.

You know, this a pretty damn good response.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I don't think Christopher meant "handle" her like you would a lion or some kind of zoo animal. He just meant the situation.

You gotta ask questions man. Think things that you want to know about her. Process that stuff. Then spit it out of your mouth. don't ramble on about video games or South Park or anything like that, unless she's into that. And she's not. So don't try. Ask her questions that require responses rather than yes or no questions. Example, don't simply ask her " do you like your job" and then let their be dead silence. If you ask a question like that, follow it up with something like "what do you like about your job". That's a lame ass question and I'm not recommending that question, just using it for an example. You have to stimulate (heehee) conversation.

And Jane... What a great Christopher impression.

 

[culloden]

I'm glad things are looking up for you but please indulge me with this one little favour... ok, a favour in two parts.

Read this

Then go through your posts on this thread and pick out where you have been plagued by unhealthy negative thought patterns.

Therapy may cost money but ask yourself what your mental health is worth? Your issues are deep seated and you know they won't be solved by the prospect of a date with this new girl.

I strongly urge you to seek out a cognitive behavioural therapist who you can develop a rapport with. I can almost guarantee that it will be the best money you ever spend.

YES! Cognitive therapy rocks!

 

[klippert]

This story is scattered. Sorry. Let it be a representation of my thoughts. Ha! And please do not quote this initial post. I'm going to delete it after the thread is dead. Thanks.

Okay, I have met this girl who I really like. And she's awesome... really awesome. She's smart, outgoing, beautiful, and everything. Let me just say, I'm not putting this chick on a pedestal. She's way way way better than me. She has lots of friends, goes to the beach every weekend, goes out all the time, has all kinds of great stories, and still pulls in a very high GPA at the same time. Oh, and let me be clear - she's not one of those sluts who parties all the time. She said she hasn't had a boyfriend in over 2 years, and she also said she passionately hates cocky guys. And she seems quiet and reserved most of the time.

Okay, now compare that with me... I used to sit on this website every night. I never go out, have one close friend (who lives in another state...), and am not the most attractive guy in the world. The only thing good about me is that I just graduated with a doctorate and I'll be pulling in just barely over six-figures per year, which is nice. (She's working toward the same degree)

So, I haven't told her I like her because obviously I'm too scared. I have told everybody else, though. I think somebody told her, but I'm not sure. She has been really flirty towards me, almost as if she's trying too hard. She's even offered to help me study for this test I have to take, which would be crazy with her already-loaded schedule.

The ultimate question, though. How does a guy like me (pathetic) handle a girl like her (super awesome)? I mean, I suck. haha! It would be awesome if it worked out, but I honestly don't see how it could.

Don't get me wrong, I'm confident around her. I talk with her a lot. But... it's just school-related stuff since she's a student. And NO, I'm not in a higher position than her. She has no incentive to impress me. Also, she's not a coworker nor an employee below me. We are in two separate worlds in terms of work. Same field, same school, that's it.

Don't be a wussy....effing tell her. Please don't tell me you also sit around and play CG games, and have smart phone access to your Anti-social network. Also, if you start going out....don't hide the fact your a member of this site. Be open and honest about everything.

Who gives a shit about your $six figures. I hope she doesn't. then you have a problem. Your financial sit'che'ation can change in a blink of an eye.
If you think that's the key...$$$. you have rude awakening when your paying more than half in child support and ali'money.

No broad is in another league. I'm a in the field hard working mother'effers. With a college degree. Mrs K, before I married her was an executive for $$$$ retail department store (NM, initials ring a bell, based in Dallas). Only one of her friends we excited for her when we started dating, because she found a man. Not some pompous self-indulged prick. Like her last boyfriend. Plus she was turned-on by a man with working hands. As for her gold-digging gf's. I have provided very well for her and our children....even in these hard time.

She'll dig you for you. not your professional student career, or how many digits on your check. Oh sure, it helps for vacations and cars....unless she is all about keeping one up.

 

[Christopher2012]

You know, I don't even really care about the new girl. I just want M.

 

[Goey]

I guess I really just don't understand how all of this is supposed to work. I feel like I'm in some alien world and everything I do is wrong.

First of all, you guys told me to just ask her out on a date. If she says no, then move on. Now, you're telling me to be her friend.

Let me explain something to you guys, I do NOT want a goddamn friend. I want a woman who is going to reciprocate those same feelings that I have for her back. I want a woman who is not going to just hang out with me and complain about her boyfriends. I've been there, and trust me... I suffered my own self-induced pain from being a girl's friend for 2 years. It was a nightmare. That friend that I had is now married and I'm still sitting here just praying for a miracle.

Fuck being friends. If she doesn't want to pursue something potentially romantic, then I don't care to see her.

Move on emotionally, not move on as in cast her to one side. It seems odd that you can't be friends with a woman. I mean my guy has a lot of female friends (when I first knew I was suspicious that he was gay or some kind of huge 'player' fortunately neither was true). I know for a fact he asked at least 2 of his female college friends out and neither said yes (this was before we met). They're still good friends and I've never know one to 'bitch' about her bf to him, they're just friends like you know - normal friends.

I still think your main problem is that your making women into some kind of higher being, instead of just human. And that everyone is judging you to the point where you won't try anything through fear of being judged. Stand back a bit, your problem isn't that big at all.

 

[Christopher2012]

Move on emotionally, not move on as in cast her to one side. It seems odd that you can't be friends with a woman. I mean my guy has a lot of female friends (when I first knew I was suspicious that he was gay or some kind of huge 'player' fortunately neither was true). I know for a fact he asked at least 2 of his female college friends out and neither said yes (this was before we met). They're still good friends and I've never know one to 'bitch' about her bf to him, they're just friends like you know - normal friends.

I still think your main problem is that your making women into some kind of higher being, instead of just human. And that everyone is judging you to the point where you won't try anything through fear of being judged. Stand back a bit, your problem isn't that big at all.

I really don't have a reaponse to this. I just wanted to say that I really like your new avatar.

 

[Goey]

It's the pic everyone seems to like the best so I thought I'd use it. Sometimes less is more you know?

 

[Christopher2012]

It's the pic everyone seems to like the best so I thought I'd use it. Sometimes less is more you know?

Hmm... No, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. I think you need to give me another example.

 

[Christopher2012]

Oh but on a serious note, Goey, you have to understand something. I don't have any friends at all. So being friends with a girl is impossible. Think about if you were to meet a guy who had zero friends and he wanted you romantically. It would then be weird for you to be his friend-friend. Know what I mean?

I mean, I have friends but they are all associated with work or school. I dont have personal friends.

 

[fire_breeze]

You know, I don't even really care about the new girl. I just want M.

Do you want Mary or do you want what you can't have?

Oh but on a serious note, Goey, you have to understand something. I don't have any friends at all. So being friends with a girl is impossible. Think about if you were to meet a guy who had zero friends and he wanted you romantically. It would then be weird for you to be his friend-friend. Know what I mean?

I mean, I have friends but they are all associated with work or school. I dont have personal friends.

So?

What about the guy who helped you get that interview?

My question is how do you define a friend? One who is NOT associated with what you do? What's a 'personal' friend? A friend is a friend, no matter how you know them. What difference does it make where you initially met them?

I don't know if you actually enjoy being miserable (and I hope to everything holy that has once walked on the Earth that I am wrong), because you're making excuses for everything. When people point out contradictions, you have more excuses. People genuinely want to help you - I'm not sure if you want to help yourself.

I like you, buddy. I think you have a world of potential. I also think that you are so incredibly fearful of stepping out of this comfortable bubble that you built yourself that you are trapping yourself into an existence where you can never be happy. Happiness does not mean constant flowers and lollipops. Happiness is satisfaction of you and your decisions and willing to do it again. You don't sound very happy nor do you sound like you want to be and that saddens me.

The truth? The time will NEVER be right if you wait for it - there will be always one more calculation, one more thing, one more other. On the other hand, the time is always right if you decide it to be. Only you can do that. The question is will you live your life or be afraid of it?

I realise that this post is a bit harsh, and I apologise. I don't like being so undiplomatic. However, it had to be said. I do sincerely wish you the best of luck and know that I am rooting for ya.

 

[Christopher2012]

Okay Breezy, then what is the first thing I should do? How do things change?

A personal friend is somebody you do something with outside of work/school. Lots of people like me in settings associated with business. But when in social environments, NOBODY has ever liked me. I just don't know how to be social. Trust me, I've tried.

Let me put it this way, every time I go out with groups from school, I always go home super depressed. The drive home is a nightmare. I don't know why. So, I just avoid people outside of business.

 

[teachinem]

.....

 

[Christopher2012]

And if you wanted M so bad, you'd take her any way you could get her. Including rubbing her feet while watching Kate Hudson almost get married in movie after movie.

That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. Honestly. Becoming M's girlfriend is not my idea of having her. Like I've said, I've been "the friend" with a girl I had feelings for and it was the most gut-wrenching experience I've ever had. The girl knew I liked her, and she strung me along for two years and ended up not giving a shit about me. All she wanted was the attention that her boyfriend never gave her at home.

I don't want M as a friend. So, you can get that out of your head.

 

[Goey]

The girl knew I liked her, and she strung me along for two years and ended up not giving a shit about me. All she wanted was the attention that her boyfriend never gave her at home.

That's not really a proper friendship.

 

[Christopher2012]

That's not really a proper friendship.

Oh so you think being M's girlfriend is a good idea, too?

Something odd DID happen during pharmacy school. A group of 7-8 very attractive girls (who knew I never went out partying with people at school) would always invite me to really nice restaurants in downtown Savannah. I never understood why. And I'd actually go. The reason I went was because: 1. I knew there would be no loud music (my ears can't take loud music so I'm scared of going out a lot of times), and 2. I knew I wouldn't be pressured to drink any kind of alcohol (scared of DUI).

So you'd see me at super nice restaurants (Vics on The River, Pink House, etc) sitting at a table with these hot girls. Now, at first I thought it was cool... but the truth was I couldn't actually have any of these women. They all had boyfriends, and regardless, they were seriously out of my league.

To me, that's like a slap in the face. I only went out with these girls because the experience of being around women was a novelty to me. But no, it wasn't fulfilling. It was just... depressing. Those girls were nice and I'm still cool with them. I just want a girlfriend, not girl friends.

 

[culloden]

Christopher, have you read the link on cognitive therapy that was posted earlier?

http://www.cognitivetherapyguide.org/negative-thinking-patterns.htm

You really should. I have some real life experience with this, and I've seen it make a big difference. The link opens right to a page that describes your thought patterns. I'm not saying to go to a therapist because I know you'll shut that right down. I'm just saying to take a look at that link and see if you see anything familiar.

Statements that you make, such as (and I'm paraphrasing), "I don't have any friends at all, so having a female friend is impossible," are entirely self-defeating. There is no outside force that creates these thoughts in your head, nor are you hardwired to think like this. It's entirely your own learned way of thinking, and it prevents you from achieving your own potential happiness. You learned the way you think now. You can learn new ways that will make you happier. Life is laid out in front of you for you to take, or not.

 

[teachinem]

.....

 

[Christopher2012]

I've been strung along too- I saw a show recently where it illustrated how everyone is on someone's hook. Luckily, I'm on my wife's and she's on mine. I didn't end up with a wife by refusing to be friends with women. Call me stupid all you want, bud.

Obviously, you don't want the kind of relationship I described earlier. But if you were so consumed with this girl, you wouldn't have pride about it. I'm illustrating the fact that your feelings aren't an animal instinct. If so, you wouldn't care what you had to do to have her. So now you know you can just man up and move on to someone who actually thinks you have potential. But you don't want her. You want this pie in the sky chick who is busy with someone else while you're pining away... you're already on the hook in your own mind.

If you don't want to be a friend, you don't want her at all. And she could smell that from a mile away. You want to possess ("have") a woman. You don't take possession of a woman- she offers it after finding out if you can be trusted with it. That's why dating and friendship exist. But you're too good to be friends with women, you only have your own happiness in mind, and think you know things others don't know.

Someone mentioned earlier that women know if they're interested in you almost immediately. So how long did you guys friend it up before she shot you down?

So I press my question now: fatalism or fiction?

Okay fine, I'm M's friend. When I see her again (*cough* never *cough*), I'll be so happy to see her and act like we're buds.

Is that better? Because no matter what, our paths will most likely never again cross.

 

[Christopher2012]

You know what, forget it.

First of all, people bitch at me for not asking her out. I got bitched at for coming off as a friend. Then I get call her and text her and people say I'm too vague. Finally I outright ask her out via text and get shot down and now I'm getting bitched at for not being her friend.

Fuck it. I don't care. Let the thread die. I hate women, and I'll live alone with 3 cats for the rest of my life.