So according to rush limbaugh, the republican party stands for...

[crazybbwgirl]

Just to make certain I understand you....

At what point, in your opinion does the issue become clear cut? When do the legal rights embodied in the Constitution and the protections of state law flow to a child? At the moment he or she takes the first breath after being slapped on the ass?

If so, then I would assume that it would be equally clear cut in your mind that a fetus only seconds from descending the birth canal, does NOT enjoy those rights or protections.

If that is your position, fine. I am not here to argue with that conclusion or the clarity with which you hold it.

I am simply here to take issue with a separate and distinct opinion which I thought you also held that said that government has no legitimate role in considering these same issues and perhaps arriving at the same conclusion as you did.

Is that not your opinion? Have I stated it unfairly?

The fact that you have arrived at your conclusion ahead of others (including your government) does not make their deliberative process any less valid than the one you experienced.

When it comes to the legal rights of children -- whether born or unborn; whether in theory or in practice -- on what rational, logical basis do you deny the right of the government to be a party to that discussion?

The delineation and administration of LEGAL rights is simply what governments do.

The evidence of life as displayed by a fetus (heartbeat, brain activity, thumb sucking, kicking) may or may not be definitive in terms of justifying the extension of full legal rights to that fetus, but for someone to suggest that these same evidences are insufficient to justify the very consideration of the question itself and that the government has no proper role in that consideration is truly the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard of.

blah blah blah blah - too many words. You're clouding the issue. The issue SHOULD be - should abortion be only for the rich?

Because - long story short - that's what it comes down to.

You are never going to do away with abortion. ever.

 

[Aliea]

It's not "her" body we're talking about dunce.

Of course it is. "dunce"

I wish men could have babies.

 

[subwannabe]

Crazybbwgirl: I am going to try answering your question by respectfully disagreeing with you. I don't agree with your arguement that if we outlawed abortion it was going to happen anyway, SO THEREFORE WHAT'S THE SENSE OF OUTLAWING IT? This is kind of like talking about regular old every day murder - if it was going to happen anyway, SO THEREFORE WHAT'S THE SENSE OF OUTLAWING IT? Of course you are right that some abortions would be happening in dirty old backrooms by people who don't know what they are doing and aren't sterile, but is that really a reason to not outlaw it? I also don't agree with your comment that richer people would still get abortions but call it D&C's instead. I don't believe that richer people, including doctors, would break the law by trying to convince us that it really wasn't an abortion but a D&C. However, rich people would be able to afford to go to another country or another state which perhaps would allow abortions. I personally don't agree that abortion should be allowed just because of the question of what we would do with all these unwanted babies.

Richard daily: You may have hit on an important issue which the two sides just can't resolve. You say that a woman should be able to make decisions on what to do with her own body and the other side of course says that this is a seperate life inside her body, NOT her own body, so therefore she has no right to decide to terminate it. I have to admit to being on the later side. It sounds so cold to just treat this life which will grow into a real human being like it is some kind of wart or growth that the woman has a right to decide if she wants it chopped off or not.

 

[busybody..]

of course, neither of these is true, but that's never stopped you before.

Carry on with your lunatic ranting...

really?

Peterson wasnt convicted of @ killings? Was his BABY born?


and OH!Bama didnt vote the way I said he did?

SURE DID!

Pretend otherwise

 

[Colonel Hogan]

blah blah blah blah - too many words. You're clouding the issue. The issue SHOULD be - should abortion be only for the rich?

Because - long story short - that's what it comes down to.

You are never going to do away with abortion. ever.

It was not my intent to CLOUD any issue. If your point was equal access to abortion by the poor, that is an entirely separate and reasonable issue.

Whether or not abortion could effectively be eradicated through government prohibition is also a separate and reasonable issue.

It was not my intent to address either of those questions.

I was ONLY addressing your single statement that it was "ridiculous for abortion to even be a topic of political discussion".

That particular statement struck a chord with me because you are certainly not the first one to make it. "Abortion is not the government's business" is a sentiment we hear quite frequently. And to the contrary, it is the government's business to decide if abortion is the government's business.

NONE of this, of course, has ANYTHING to do with your assertions regarding access to abortion by the poor or whether or not abortion will always be with us.

Since I am not emotionally wrapped up in those questions, I'll leave them for others to discuss.

 

[busybody..]

of course, neither of these is true, but that's never stopped you before.

Carry on with your lunatic ranting...

Here is the BAM story


A BABY that survives an abortion

and is BORN

is THROWN in a CLOET to DIE

not allowed to be helped to survive

BAM VOTED for that!

He said in the interview that those that say he did LIED

Now his campaign in effect said HE LIED!

Breaking news: Obama campaign changes story, admits he misrepresented Born Alive vote
From the New York Sun, dated August 18:

Indeed, Mr. Obama appeared to misstate his position in the CBN interview on Saturday when he said the federal version he supported "was not the bill that was presented at the state level."
His campaign yesterday acknowledged that he had voted against an identical bill in the state Senate, and a spokesman, Hari Sevugan, said the senator and other lawmakers had concerns that even as worded, the legislation could have undermined existing Illinois abortion law. Those concerns did not exist for the federal bill, because there is no federal abortion law....


Bearing in mind the Obama campaign now admits he voted as state senator against the very same legislation passed overwhelmingly on the federal level to stop infanticide, read again what he told CBN's David Brody only last night:

Well and because they have not been telling the truth. And I hate to say that people are lying, but here's a situation where folks are lying.
I have said repeatedly that I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported - which was to say - that you should provide assistance to any infant that was born - even if it was as a consequence of an induced abortion.



That was not the bill that was presented at the state level. What that bill also was doing was trying to undermine Roe vs. Wade. By the way, we also had a bill, a law already in place in IL that insured life saving treatment was given to infants.

So for people to suggest that I and the IL Medical Society, so IL doctors were somehow in favor of withholding life saving support from an infant born alive is ridiculous. It defies common sense and it defies imagination and for people to keep on pushing this is offensive and it's an example of the kind of politics that we have to get beyond.

It's one thing for people to disagree with me about the issue of choice, it's another thing for people to out and out misrepresent my positions repeatedly, even after they know that they're wrong. And that's what's been happening.


Little did Obama know his own words would so quickly condemn him. He admitted what he did "defies common sense and it defies imagination." In fact, it was heinous.

While the Obama campaign tonight finally admitted Obama has misrepresented his Born Alive vote all these years, it had the audacity to offer a ludicrous excuse, an excuse Obama himself contradicted only 24 hours ago, as he has for years, that "I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported."

 

[busybody..]

Go ahead DICK DAILY

Tell me

Didnt Peterson get CONVICTED of KILLING 2????????????

Based on the long C n P

Didnt BAM vote to KILL BABIES?


Is that the PROGRESSIVE and DUMOH way?

Or will you still pretend it aint so?

 

[crazybbwgirl]

It was not my intent to CLOUD any issue. If your point was equal access to abortion by the poor, that is an entirely separate and reasonable issue.
Whether or not abortion could effectively be eradicated through government prohibition is also a separate and reasonable issue.
It was not my intent to address either of those questions.
I was ONLY addressing your single statement that it was "ridiculous for abortion to even be a topic of political discussion".
That particular statement struck a chord with me because you are certainly not the first one to make it. "Abortion is not the government's business" is a sentiment we hear quite frequently. And to the contrary, it is the government's business to decide if abortion is the government's business.
NONE of this, of course, has ANYTHING to do with your assertions regarding access to abortion by the poor or whether or not abortion will always be with us.
Since I am not emotionally wrapped up in those questions, I'll leave them for others to discuss.

Sorry.. I did kinda change horses in mid-stream there...

I think abortion should be between a doctor and his patient. The government should neither know or care.

That being impossible now a days - I think abortion should be available safely and cheaply. BECAUSE - it will never go away.

But also it should be kept rare. I wish I knew how to do that. But I'm thinking MORE education, MORE talking about it, MORE birth control - is at least a step in the right direction...

 

[crazybbwgirl]

Crazybbwgirl: I am going to try answering your question by respectfully disagreeing with you. I don't agree with your arguement that if we outlawed abortion it was going to happen anyway, SO THEREFORE WHAT'S THE SENSE OF OUTLAWING IT? This is kind of like talking about regular old every day murder - if it was going to happen anyway, SO THEREFORE WHAT'S THE SENSE OF OUTLAWING IT? Of course you are right that some abortions would be happening in dirty old backrooms by people who don't know what they are doing and aren't sterile, but is that really a reason to not outlaw it? I also don't agree with your comment that richer people would still get abortions but call it D&C's instead. I don't believe that richer people, including doctors, would break the law by trying to convince us that it really wasn't an abortion but a D&C. However, rich people would be able to afford to go to another country or another state which perhaps would allow abortions. I personally don't agree that abortion should be allowed just because of the question of what we would do with all these unwanted babies.

Richard daily: You may have hit on an important issue which the two sides just can't resolve. You say that a woman should be able to make decisions on what to do with her own body and the other side of course says that this is a seperate life inside her body, NOT her own body, so therefore she has no right to decide to terminate it. I have to admit to being on the later side. It sounds so cold to just treat this life which will grow into a real human being like it is some kind of wart or growth that the woman has a right to decide if she wants it chopped off or not.

Thank you for responding to me. I'm not saying my answer is a good one - but I think it's the best and fairest we can do right now.

Check your history. Before Roe v Wade most rich women got abortions from their private doctors - even though it was 'illegal'. Poor women had to have the child or go to the back alley.

Did you know that over the centuries whether abortion was legal or not in a society mostly depended upon the population growth of that society? If there had been years of war and the population was down - abortions became illegal. If there were plenty of people around and the society was thriving - abortion became legal.

 

[richard_daily]

It's not "her" body we're talking about dunce.

Unless that "baby" can survive on it's own, without relying on a woman for housing and sustenance, yes it is... Unequivocally.

 

[busybody..]

Go ahead DICK DAILY

Tell me

Didnt Peterson get CONVICTED of KILLING 2????????????

Based on the long C n P

Didnt BAM vote to KILL BABIES?


Is that the PROGRESSIVE and DUMOH way?

Or will you still pretend it aint so?

 

[busybody..]

Just so you know, DICK DAILY

I dont exoect an answer from you

You will continue to PRETEND

Peterson didnt get CONVICTED of KILLING his wife AND UNBORN KID

and that BAM didnt vote for the KILLINGS OF LIVE BABIES!

 

[busybody..]

so the VALUES of PROGRESSIVES and DUMZ

are to KILL UNBORN CHILDREN

 

[crazybbwgirl]

so the VALUES of PROGRESSIVES and DUMZ

are to KILL UNBORN CHILDREN

Well - is it too late to kill you? Cuz that might help...

 

[busybody..]

Well - is it too late to kill you? Cuz that might help...

Ahh

A LIBERAL

Ashamed of seeing the truth

That LIBZ and DUMZ indeed are the PARTY OF DEATH

Threatens the person who points it out!

 

[unregistered]

 

[crazybbwgirl]

Ahh
A LIBERAL
Ashamed of seeing the truth
That LIBZ and DUMZ indeed are the PARTY OF DEATH
Threatens the person who points it out!

We could just call it a REALLY late term abortion?

 

[busybody..]

We could just call it a REALLY late term abortion?

you can call it that

then when a BABY survives a LATE TERM ABORTION

and is BORN ALIVE

your 'man', OHBAMA voted for a bill in Chicago that PROHIBITED a Doctor from HELPING that BABY and legislated THE BABY THROWN INTO A CLOSET AND LEFT TO DIE!

BAM said that was a LIE, all day Sat and Sunday, now his campaign is saying

YES, INDEED HE VOTED THAT WAY

You must be proud

KILLING BABIES=THE PROGRESSIVE AND DUMOHCRAP VALUES!

 

[crazybbwgirl]

you can call it that
then when a BABY survives a LATE TERM ABORTION
and is BORN ALIVE
your 'man', OHBAMA voted for a bill in Chicago that PROHIBITED a Doctor from HELPING that BABY and legislated THE BABY THROWN INTO A CLOSET AND LEFT TO DIE!
BAM said that was a LIE, all day Sat and Sunday, now his campaign is saying
YES, INDEED HE VOTED THAT WAY
You must be proud
KILLING BABIES=THE PROGRESSIVE AND DUMOHCRAP VALUES!

oh darling - governments have been killing babies for centuries. And I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find some simply horrific stories of botched abortions. Does not change the truth though... sadly enough.

 

[Spider Rand]

Unless that "baby" can survive on it's own, without relying on a woman for housing and sustenance, yes it is... Unequivocally.

By that reasoning, you could "abort" a child until he is old enough to work for a living. Hell, by that reasoning, you could abort some of the posters on Lit...

 

[busybody..]

oh darling - governments have been killing babies for centuries. And I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find some simply horrific stories of botched abortions. Does not change the truth though... sadly enough.

really?

who?

which governments?

and what does that have to do with DUMZ=NEW IDEAS, as DICK DAILY postulates?

 

[crazybbwgirl]

By that reasoning, you could "abort" a child until he is old enough to work for a living. Hell, by that reasoning, you could abort some of the posters on Lit...

I know people who say abortion should be legal up to their 18th birthday...

 

[richard_daily]

According to you. The fact is this is a no win issue, roughly half the people for and the other against, with your side losing ground every day. BFD.

Do you have any small children? Would they be able to survive on their own if turned loose to fend for themselves? Do they have rights?

A small child could survive if cared for... A unborn fetus could not, without relying on it's mother's body... Up until the point of viability, where the baby could live in an incubator, there's no reason for anyone to deny a woman the right to do what she wants with her own body.

Your opinion, my opinion, the pope's opinion on how "abhorrent" abortion might be, is irrelevant.

Again; don't want a woman to have abortion, stop fucking women. Simple really.

 

[richard_daily]

By that reasoning, you could "abort" a child until he is old enough to work for a living. Hell, by that reasoning, you could abort some of the posters on Lit...

And yet, where are the people clamoring for the rights of the already born? The religious right is always strangely silent on that issue.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

A small child could survive if cared for... A unborn fetus could not, without relying on it's mother's body... Up until the point of viability, where the baby could live in an incubator, there's no reason for anyone to deny a woman the right to do what she wants with her own body.

"Viable" or not, I think the argument centers around what the mother does with the "other" body. You know. The one that's not actually hers.