Socialism is a crime against humanity

[Wilson23]

The smartphone market is a good example of how the most sophisticated and advanced technology operates in a free market.

Drop the delusion that every person will get the absolute top of the line and most expensive available resource, and the market floods with a wide spectrum of choices that caters to people's needs and affordability scales.

But, it doesn't. We don't HAVE a wide spectrum of choices. All cell phones are pretty much the same and cost the same. And -- as with the automobile -- we have been DEPRIVED of the choice of getting along without one.

 

[AlexBailey]

It's federal laws and policies over the last half century that has dominated health care programs and are responsible for soaring cost. Free markets could drive down prices. A complex issue but it starts with the cost of educating medical professional. If the government wants to help give tax breaks and low interest loans to college students. Let the states run their healthcare programs. Choice,,, choice... CHOICE is the secret sauce. Providing more choice and tailoring health insurance to the needs of individual would be a great step forward. Too complex for a porn site.

So you just named government incentives through tax breaks. That’s not a bad idea but it’s not really a free market idea.

And, no. The Political Board is not really just a porn board. It’s a place you can actually express your ideas.

You named ‘choice’. That works well for elective healthcare - things like cosmetic surgery or or various things like lazar eye surgery, but how doe it apply to things like emergency care, long term cancer treatments, or preexisting conditions?

These are real issues that people who advocate for free market healthcare just gloss over.

You had a good start. Continue expanding on your free market theory and explain how it would work to benefit the general population.

 

[AlexBailey]

The smartphone market is a good example of how the most sophisticated and advanced technology operates in a free market.

Drop the delusion that every person will get the absolute top of the line and most expensive available resource, and the market floods with a wide spectrum of choices that caters to people's needs and affordability scales.

And nobody is forced to pay for anyone else's phone.

Simple, basic common sense which, if certain individuals cannot comprehend, there's no point in even trying to explain it to them.

Are you honestly comparing healthcare to selling smartphones?

How are those markets similar? Smartphones are not a human need. You won’t literally die if you don’t get a good one. They can be manufactured in low labor cost markets and shipped to consumers. How does that model apply to healthcare?

Where does your comparison show ‘basic common sense’?

I’m not trolling you. I’m asking you to put real world sense to your theories.

 

[Wilson23]

You won’t literally die if you don’t get a good one.

You will not die literally but you will die socially. It's like the automobile -- you cannot fully participate in society without one.

 

[AlexBailey]

You will not die literally but you will die socially. It's like the automobile -- you cannot fully participate in society without one.

Well, you can survive but it’s much more difficult these days without one, especially for anyone who has fallen through the cracks. You might have to borrow one or go to the public library to manage job and housing applications. That can be very difficult without a smart phone.

My wife works for a nonprofit in homeless services. This is something her clients have to deal with daily. There are ways but lots of people fall through the cracks, and lots of people on the street get robbed. Imagine trying to apply for new identification without a home address or any other reference to who you are.

Some of the most vulnerable are those with mental health issues. They often can’t keep paperwork together and rarely have regular access to mail or email.


How would the free market deal with dysfunctional mental health? Get a job?

 

[icanhelp1]

So you just named government incentives through tax breaks. That’s not a bad idea but it’s not really a free market idea.

And, no. The Political Board is not really just a porn board. It’s a place you can actually express your ideas.

You named ‘choice’. That works well for elective healthcare - things like cosmetic surgery or or various things like lazar eye surgery, but how doe it apply to things like emergency care, long term cancer treatments, or preexisting conditions?

These are real issues that people who advocate for free market healthcare just gloss over.

You had a good start. Continue expanding on your free market theory and explain how it would work to benefit the general population.

Create a pool for extreme cases. Incentives are part of free market competition. Low interest loans are not freebies.

 

[Wilson23]

How would the free market deal with dysfunctional mental health?

By charging people money to watch the lunatics act crazy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rake's_Progress#VIII_–_The_Madhouse

 

[TastySuckToy]

Are you honestly comparing healthcare to selling smartphones?

I'm pointing out how even the most advanced and sophisticated types of technology and services in a free market naturally accomodates the full spectrum of needs and affordability.

And you couldn't even figure out that basic point I made.

 

[Iluv17]

I'm pointing out how even the most advanced and sophisticated types of technology and services in a free market naturally accomodates the full spectrum of needs and affordability.

And you couldn't even figure out that basic point I made.

Psst, shes collage educated! Be careful, SHE KNOWS EVERYTHING!

 

[Wilson23]

I'm pointing out how even the most advanced and sophisticated types of technology and services in a free market naturally accomodates the full spectrum of needs and affordability.

But, it DOESN'T, and you know it.

 

[AlexBailey]

I'm pointing out how even the most advanced and sophisticated types of technology and services in a free market naturally accomodates the full spectrum of needs and affordability.

And you couldn't even figure out that basic point I made.

You haven’t explained how the smartphone market is in any way similar to healthcare.

That’s not a cogent argument.

Try again?

 

[AlexBailey]

Create a pool for extreme cases. Incentives are part of free market competition. Low interest loans are not freebies.

A pool? Like insurance that people pay into but is run by nonprofits?

That’s one of the better ideas.

Another good one is tax free healthcare savings accounts.

Those are good mechanisms that can be used within the free market system, but they still let a lot of people and common conditions fall through cracks.

 

[TastySuckToy]

You haven’t explained

I did. You just clearly don't understand. If and when you do, you can come back and participate in the conversation.

 

[AlexBailey]

I did. You just clearly don't understand. If and when you do, you can come back and participate in the conversation.

No. Now you’re just trolling.


Tell me how the smartphone market is anything like the complex issues of healthcare.

That’s a serious challenge that’s easy to answer that you don’t seem up to.

You were talking about smartphones as a product, you didn’t even say anything about service. Cell service is a much better analogy. Healthcare is both product and service.



Time for you to go eat another a dick?

 

[icanhelp1]

A pool? Like insurance that people pay into but is run by nonprofits?

That’s one of the better ideas.

Another good one is tax free healthcare savings accounts.

Trump is trying to make healthcare savings plans a reality.

Those are good mechanisms that can be used within the free market system, but they still let a lot of people and common conditions fall through cracks.

Letting in 15 million illegals is a big crack! I had to go to the emergency room a while back and most patients couldn't speak English. Found out later that most were being treated through Medicaid and were not citizens.

 

[icanhelp1]

No. Now you’re just trolling.


Tell me how the smartphone market is anything like the complex issues of healthcare.

That’s a serious challenge that’s easy to answer that you don’t seem up to.

You were talking about smartphones as a product, you didn’t even say anything about service. Cell service is a much better analogy. Healthcare is both product and service.



Time for you to go eat another a dick?

Choice and competition lowers prices.

 

[Rightguide]

Ayn Rand fancied herself a philosopher, which she wasn't. But she never fancied herself an economist. She ASSUMED the superior efficiency of a market economy but she never ARGUED for it. It would have been beside the point anyway -- even if the economic superiority of socialism had been demonstrated to Rand's satisfaction, she still would have rejected it as incompatible with the ETHICS of Objectivism.

There you go again, explaining what someone “assumed,” “never argued,” and “would have rejected anyway,” and then declare victory over a position you’ve carefully reconstructed in your own imagination.

First, the claim that Ayn Rand merely assumed the superiority of markets is a bit odd, considering she wrote thousands of pages explaining why voluntary exchange flows naturally from her moral philosophy. In Rand’s framework, markets weren’t just an efficiency claim, they were the political expression of individual rights. The argument was not “markets work better, therefore capitalism,” but rather “individuals have the right to act on their own judgment, therefore a system of voluntary trade follows.”

 

[Wilson23]

Choice and competition lowers prices.

And capitalism quite often destroys choice and competition.

 

[Wilson23]

There you go again, explaining what someone “assumed,” “never argued,” and “would have rejected anyway,” and then declare victory over a position you’ve carefully reconstructed in your own imagination.

First, the claim that Ayn Rand merely assumed the superiority of markets is a bit odd, considering she wrote thousands of pages explaining why voluntary exchange flows naturally from her moral philosophy. In Rand’s framework, markets weren’t just an efficiency claim, they were the political expression of individual rights. The argument was not “markets work better, therefore capitalism,” but rather “individuals have the right to act on their own judgment, therefore a system of voluntary trade follows.”

That was MY point. Rand rejected socialism for ethical reasons, not for economic reasons. And only a worthless piece of shit would. All ETHICAL considerations that matter are on the leftist side. "Taxation is theft" is trumped by "Property is theft."

 

[AlexBailey]

Choice and competition lowers prices.

True.

So now explain how choice and competition fit into healthcare.

How many communities can’t support more than one hospital? How does public infrastructure work to integrate with multiple provider locations?

What competitive models work for rural communities?

How does competition work with emergency services and acute care?

 

[AlexBailey]

There you go again, explaining what someone “assumed,” “never argued,” and “would have rejected anyway,” and then declare victory over a position you’ve carefully reconstructed in your own imagination.

First, the claim that Ayn Rand merely assumed the superiority of markets is a bit odd, considering she wrote thousands of pages explaining why voluntary exchange flows naturally from her moral philosophy. In Rand’s framework, markets weren’t just an efficiency claim, they were the political expression of individual rights. The argument was not “markets work better, therefore capitalism,” but rather “individuals have the right to act on their own judgment, therefore a system of voluntary trade follows.”

Ayn Rand relied the social safety net at the end of her life because application of her philosophy failed her in the real world.

 

[TastySuckToy]

a serious challenge that’s easy to answer

So then answer it if you understand it is easy.

You were talking about smartphones as a product, you didn’t even say anything about service.

I'm pointing out how even the most advanced and sophisticated types of technology and services in a free market naturally accomodates the full spectrum of needs and affordability.

And you couldn't even figure out that basic point I made.

We can add reading to your list of failures.

 

[Rightguide]

That was MY point. Rand rejected socialism for ethical reasons, not for economic reasons. And only a worthless piece of shit would. All ETHICAL considerations that matter are on the leftist side.

Your ridiculous claim that “all ethical considerations that matter are on the leftist side” is less a philosophical argument and more a declaration of moral eminent domain. It’s essentially saying: we own ethics now, please vacate the premises. Which is convenient, because it saves the trouble of debating actual principles like individual rights, voluntary exchange, coercion, and responsibility.

Oh, and the rhetorical flourish, calling opponents “worthless pieces of shit,” does have a certain unintended irony. It’s difficult to claim the exclusive high ground of moral philosophy while simultaneously conducting the discussion from your porch in the sewer.

 

[Rightguide]

Ayn Rand relied the social safety net at the end of her life because application of her philosophy failed her in the real world.

Would you like to explain the details of that assertion?

 

[Wilson23]

Your ridiculous claim that “all ethical considerations that matter are on the leftist side” is less a philosophical argument and more a declaration of moral eminent domain. It’s essentially saying: we own ethics now, please vacate the premises. Which is convenient, because it saves the trouble of debating actual principles like individual rights, voluntary exchange, coercion, and responsibility.

Oh, and the rhetorical flourish, calling opponents “worthless pieces of shit,” does have a certain unintended irony. It’s difficult to claim the exclusive high ground of moral philosophy while simultaneously conducting the discussion from your porch in the sewer.

Reading your prose style is like watching Stephen Hawking try to do gymnastics.