Submissive/Slave Haven

[CutieMouse]

LOL, partly true, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Without feminism we would not even be free to pursue this type relationship, be open to the world about it, or feel the freedom to determine our own destiny whatever it may be....just a lot of supposed feminists never got or remember the message it is about choice by the individual, not by women who place themselves above the rest and feel it their duty to tell the rest of us what we can and can't do...may as well bring back patriarchal rule if we are still going to be subjective to what someone else decides is best for us.

Catalina

Ohhh you should have HEARD the shit I got from my (liberal feminist) family for wanting to be a full time wife/mom when I grew up... much less any submissive desires I have. Thankfully we don't really talk anymore, so they aren't privy to the choices I make now. I can just hear my sister's voice in my head - "Soo... essentially you're going to be a kept woman to some rich guy, because you can't do any better with your life?" Sigh.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Right now I'm kind of sort of hyperventilating... LOL

Should he meet you at the airport with an O2 bottle or just the usual chains and whips?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

You gonna give us a "progress report" once you get there?

 

[CutieMouse]

Should he meet you at the airport with an O2 bottle or just the usual chains and whips?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

You gonna give us a "progress report" once you get there?

LOL

Yes, I'll be checking in while I'm down there.

 

[HottieMama]

LOL

Yes, I'll be checking in while I'm down there.

i'll say it again..i am SO excited for you, Cutie....


On my own note...i wish i didn't always feel so insecure...for no real reason.

 

[Hisbabydoll26]

Ohhh you should have HEARD the shit I got from my (liberal feminist) family for wanting to be a full time wife/mom when I grew up... much less any submissive desires I have. Thankfully we don't really talk anymore, so they aren't privy to the choices I make now. I can just hear my sister's voice in my head - "Soo... essentially you're going to be a kept woman to some rich guy, because you can't do any better with your life?" Sigh.

CM: OUCH! Get that voice out of your head. It is YOUR life and your choice to live it in YOUR way without judgement. I think that one thing I have really learned on lit in general, that I already knew, is you never know what goes on behind the scenes or inside a home. How you relate to your other half is your business and part of the magic of it is knowing that only the two of you can really understand and appreciate what you have. Kind of like a cherished secret. It's not as nice when everyone knows it or has it. I often think I wish my family really knew how wonderful my guy treats me, all the little and big things he does. They love him already but I think they would be amazed at how well he takes care of me. I guess I want them to know because it would help them to feel safe with where I am in life. At the same time it is between us, those special things that nobody gets to know and for that reason I'm glad they don't know.

 

[CutieMouse]

CM: OUCH! Get that voice out of your head. It is YOUR life and your choice to live it in YOUR way without judgement. I think that one thing I have really learned on lit in general, that I already knew, is you never know what goes on behind the scenes or inside a home. How you relate to your other half is your business and part of the magic of it is knowing that only the two of you can really understand and appreciate what you have. Kind of like a cherished secret. It's not as nice when everyone knows it or has it. I often think I wish my family really knew how wonderful my guy treats me, all the little and big things he does. They love him already but I think they would be amazed at how well he takes care of me. I guess I want them to know because it would help them to feel safe with where I am in life. At the same time it is between us, those special things that nobody gets to know and for that reason I'm glad they don't know.

After I got divorced she actually suggested to me that I find some nice well off guy, since I don't really have the skills to do anything else... (After I'd just been accepted to a prestigious course on the identification of fucking 11th - 15th century manuscripts for christ's sake. It's been almost 3 years and I'm still pissed off about that comment. LOL )

I do keep a sense of perspective, and recognize that my skills, talents, and unique perspective leave me very well suited for a certain style of relationship, in which I'd be (happily) working my ass off as a companion, confidant, advisor, Lover, etc. Not everyone can do that sort of thing, and the world would not run as smoothly as it does without people like me, and the right sort of man will both recognize and cherish that about me.

And if those mental gymnastics don't work, I remind myself that she's spent the last 9 years in a relationship with a guy who likes her enough to be in business with her, expect her to carry most of the stress and weight of the business/bills/etc, and live with her (he moved in 3 weeks after they started seeing each other)... but turns her down when she suggests marriage. the last I spoke with her about it (about 18 months ago) she was pretty much trapped- unhappy with the relationship, but unable to do anything about it because everything was complicated by being business partners and 100% dependent on his contribution to the business. Not my kinda slavery, thanks.

 

[coy_one]

I am so happy for all of you guys.


Keep me in your thoughts this weekend. I am having to go home to try to buy a new car so I am gonna be on pins and needles til it gets settled.

GOOD THOUGHTS PLEASE!!

Don't worry. You're in good hands.

 

[ShyVixen]

I'm sure it's quite normal for a new sub to feel this way - elated, happy, nervous, confused- but still, it's a mixed bag of emotions!

 

[wenchhh]

Fellow Subs, do you think doms...?

Been using this limbo time as a period of (forced) introspection, and a couple of things occured to me as I was driving home this morning. Wanted to bounce it off the "girls" here.
Ladies, do you ever wonder, if this lifestyle, choosing to be submissive, doesn't put us at a slight disadvantage when it comes to heartbreak? In the last month I think I have counted 6 or 7 of you/us who have been released, or otherwise lost their doms. The resounding feelings of despair and hopelessness, floundering, anger and confusion worries me. Do you think THEY ever feel this way? Don't they REALIZE when they commit to collaring someone, or otherwise taking them on, what a GINORMOUS responsibility it is? I know there are some wonderful Doms on this list. I'm sure there are many more that we've not heard from/of. It just seems like we're bein dropped, as if we're expendable, and like our very core just doesn't matter. I can compare it to having a baby, then deciding after a year or two, when it gets talking and learning to say "no", that you don't want it anymore, too much hassle whatever, and give it up to someone else.
I guess that brings me to Point/idea number two. It never occured to me, when looking for a dom, to make sure HE knew what I expected his responsibility to be. Perhaps we, well, I, need to be a little clearer about that. (Tho you'd think a truly "experienced" dom would KNOW this, um, better than newbie me!)
Do you think that THEY ever feel the pain/sense of loss and disorientation that released subs do? I've only talked to ONE from here, who has even expressed that he misses his sub. Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[intothewoods]

Hi wench, good question. I'm still quite new, but it seems to me that Doms are just people, after all. Human beings are flawed.

I should say I don't feel like I was turned out on my ear or anything. I don't feel like I should be in a relationship right now with anyone. I won't speak for him, but he has things he wants to focus on as well.

 

[CutieMouse]

I honestly don't think it's any different than breaking up with a Lover, or ending an engagement or marriage. Realizing things aren't working, and doing what is necessary to end things sucks, regardless of the whole power thingie. IMO, assigning greater importance/hurt/pain/power to the heartbreak of a relationship not working out, just because it happened to involve a power dynamic, weakens one as a person. Being "lost" without a Dominant partner in one's life smacks of co-dependence. I recognize I am slightly better at the life-direction thing when in a relationship, but I am in no way hopeless/dispairing/floundering/confused without a partner in my Life- which is a common theme i see amongst submissive women, which worries me...

I seriously doubt my LDR friend really thought I'd take him seriously, when he said he never wanted to speak to me again. He'd gotten pissy and said things like that before, and I'd always blown it off, realizing he was stressed about other things. This time I decided I shouldn't HAVE to blow him off and work around his stress- so I took him seriously, and stopped sending emails/calling.

After 24 hours he sent an email saying "Goodnight"; I responded in kind.

He did the same thing after 48 hours, with the same result.

On day 3 he sent a snippy email saying he guessed I wasn't ever going to bother speaking to him again... and I pointed out HE was the one who threw down that gauntlet. I gave him an out- if he'd apologize for the language he used when we quarrelled, I'd be happy to be friends, be supportive, do anything I could for him as platonic friends, and chat 3-4 times a day as we had for the previous 2 years... but waiting 2 years was long enough, and I'd be looking elsewhere for my romantic needs.

Response? Be careful out there... (Christ, man... )

3 days later I got 2 frantic messages on my voicemail, and an email... he'd seen the massive flooding in the general area, and was scared I might be hurt. I responded to the email to let him know I was fine, and he called one last time to make sure- just to hear my voice. And ya know what? i could tell he misses me terribly. He worries about me. I truely believe he hates what has happened, I'd bet money he regrets things, and I am 99% sure he's unhappy without me... but he's too damned proud and stubborn to do anything about it. So yeah- I suspect men struggle just as much when a relationship ends.

 

[HottieMama]

Ladies, do you ever wonder, if this lifestyle, choosing to be submissive, doesn't put us at a slight disadvantage when it comes to heartbreak? In the last month I think I have counted 6 or 7 of you/us who have been released, or otherwise lost their doms. The resounding feelings of despair and hopelessness, floundering, anger and confusion worries me. Do you think THEY ever feel this way? Don't they REALIZE when they commit to collaring someone, or otherwise taking them on, what a GINORMOUS responsibility it is? I know there are some wonderful Doms on this list. I'm sure there are many more that we've not heard from/of. It just seems like we're bein dropped, as if we're expendable, and like our very core just doesn't matter. I can compare it to having a baby, then deciding after a year or two, when it gets talking and learning to say "no", that you don't want it anymore, too much hassle whatever, and give it up to someone else.

Did my last Dom feel that way? No...i am entirely positive he did not. If he did, it wouldn't have ended the way it did. (Shit...most days i doubt his Domliness anyway...i think he has it confused with being an asshole.)

I guess that brings me to Point/idea number two. It never occured to me, when looking for a dom, to make sure HE knew what I expected his responsibility to be. Perhaps we, well, I, need to be a little clearer about that. (Tho you'd think a truly "experienced" dom would KNOW this, um, better than newbie me!)
Do you think that THEY ever feel the pain/sense of loss and disorientation that released subs do? I've only talked to ONE from here, who has even expressed that he misses his sub. Any insight would be appreciated.

i recently had a Dom ask me that question...What do you need from me? It's even more baffling when you can't come up with a coherent answer because you've never been asked the question before. Eventually i did...and so far it is working out well. Which falls into your second question...without putting TOO much out there, i know He would miss me if i wasn't His anymore. There have been some minor things that have proven to me just how seriously He takes this and how much He cares...which only makes me positively adore Him even more.

 

[lk70]

In the last month I think I have counted 6 or 7 of you/us who have been released, or otherwise lost their doms.

What exactly is this term "released?" Is a sub/slave able to release herself? As in she's no longer happy with the relationship? Or is there another term for that?

Is "being released" the same as being dumped?

I traded emails with a dom who told me that his sub had to move to the west coast for work, so he released her. That's the same as saying "so we broke up," right?

 

[CutieMouse]

What exactly is this term "released?" Is a sub/slave able to release herself? As in she's no longer happy with the relationship? Or is there another term for that?

Is "being released" the same as being dumped?

I traded emails with a dom who told me that his sub had to move to the west coast for work, so he released her. That's the same as saying "so we broke up," right?

Yup- breaking up.

Some people believe a relationship isn't over until the dominant party has officially "released" the submissive party from her obligation to "serve".

... says the woman who is happily trotting off to the DR for 2 weeks, knowing a cc# will be in her posession at all times, and that she is welcome to call a cab/re-book a flight home in the middle of the night, and just freaking LEAVE with no explination necessary. LOL

 

[HottieMama]

What exactly is this term "released?" Is a sub/slave able to release herself? As in she's no longer happy with the relationship? Or is there another term for that?

Is "being released" the same as being dumped?

I traded emails with a dom who told me that his sub had to move to the west coast for work, so he released her. That's the same as saying "so we broke up," right?

Pretty much the same as breaking up.

It is my understanding that if a sub/slave is no longer happy with the relationship she can ask to be released. (Wouldn't know from experience because i didn't want to be released from either of my D/s relationships in the past.)

 

[GentleSub_Ivy]

xxxxxx

 

[BiBunny]

I think it's a two-fold thing. First of all, people who post on message boards are generally the types of people who write to get their feelings out and are more likely to "talk" about what's bothering them in a community like this one. I know I'm guilty of it. (If I didn't enjoy writing, this whole grad school thing would be really, really stupid.) Secondly, I think men do process things differently than women do. Yes, they hurt, too. They may, in fact, hurt more than we do because they often are reluctant to express their feelings or just don't even know how to express them.

So, what happens is, on message boards, you see a bunch of female subs who like to write about their feelings, and you think that the men don't care. Most of my closest friends are men, and I can assure you, I've been the one there to hold them while they cried into their beers over relationships gone bad. Women, in my experience, actually deal with it better than men do.

 

[lk70]

... says the woman who is happily trotting off to the DR for 2 weeks, knowing a cc# will be in her posession at all times, and that she is welcome to call a cab/re-book a flight home in the middle of the night, and just freaking LEAVE with no explination necessary. LOL

You rock, CM!

Can I just say, I think a lot of you ROCK!

 

[FluteMaster]

Good Question

Hi Wench,

I think you raised a very good question. I can't speak for other Doms, though I would say that there are many males who present themselves as Doms in order to get "cyber laid". These guys can be pretty much be depended on not to care to much about the heart of a sub they misuse.

For my part...I would say that a Dom can and does suffer when a D/s relationship ends. I can't say it is as much...but the suffering is there. I have been in this place of loss several times, and each time it is just as painful.

There is the loss of companionship, sharing and understanding that comes with deep and open communication. There is the loss of the shared hopes, dreams and plans. And there is the loss of that special person who has earned such an important place in your heart.

But in addition, there is a sense of guilt that one cannot do more for that submissive, and the pain ofaccepting that one must let go of that other and move on. I would never "dump" a submissive though I recognise there have been times when we have arrived at a point of diverging hopes and expectations.

Each time I commit to a D/s relationship, I do it knowing that if it goes wrong, then I will grieve and feel keenly a deep sense of loss, hurt and self failure; and that will happen however long the relationship has been in place. Each time I tell myself that I won't put myself in that position again, and each time I have to accept that the intensity and depth of "owning" a submissive is not a want; it is a need.

Personally, I can't see that a Dominant who is skilled enough to empathise with his subs hopes, neeeds, dreams and fears can fail to recognise the awsome responsibility he accepts when he agrees to be her Dominant. Our hearts are vulnerable, and love will always flourish when there is such a significant bond. It is when that responsibility is taken seriously that the relationship thrives.

However, Dominants can also fall victim to the idea that they need to restrain their emotions, to be strong and in charge. So when things go wrong...their behaviour can seem to indicate that they have quickly adjusted and moved on. I can assure you...that is most probably not the case.

 

[CutieMouse]

You rock, CM!

Nah- just someone who made a lot of dumb mistakes early in life, and is finally wise enough to have the balls to discuss the difficult things, and demand a certain degree of safety from those who wish to have me in their lives.

J's no idiot either- if I don't want to be there, he doesn't want me there. He exercises the right to sit me down at any point during my visit and say it isn't working for him and take me back to the airport/book a flight sending me home, as well.

BDSM relationships are still realtionships and all that...

 

[ecstaticsub]

Been using this limbo time as a period of (forced) introspection, and a couple of things occured to me as I was driving home this morning. Wanted to bounce it off the "girls" here.
Ladies, do you ever wonder, if this lifestyle, choosing to be submissive, doesn't put us at a slight disadvantage when it comes to heartbreak? In the last month I think I have counted 6 or 7 of you/us who have been released, or otherwise lost their doms. The resounding feelings of despair and hopelessness, floundering, anger and confusion worries me. Do you think THEY ever feel this way? Don't they REALIZE when they commit to collaring someone, or otherwise taking them on, what a GINORMOUS responsibility it is? I know there are some wonderful Doms on this list. I'm sure there are many more that we've not heard from/of. It just seems like we're bein dropped, as if we're expendable, and like our very core just doesn't matter. I can compare it to having a baby, then deciding after a year or two, when it gets talking and learning to say "no", that you don't want it anymore, too much hassle whatever, and give it up to someone else.
I guess that brings me to Point/idea number two. It never occured to me, when looking for a dom, to make sure HE knew what I expected his responsibility to be. Perhaps we, well, I, need to be a little clearer about that. (Tho you'd think a truly "experienced" dom would KNOW this, um, better than newbie me!)
Do you think that THEY ever feel the pain/sense of loss and disorientation that released subs do? I've only talked to ONE from here, who has even expressed that he misses his sub. Any insight would be appreciated.

I know without any doubt that my Dom would be hurt if i asked to be released. I know he loves me in the same way I love him. I know this because of the way he has talked about other relationships that he has been in. He also told me that he wasn't sure he wanted to collar me, not because of who I was/am but because he knew the responsibility that came with that decision. He takes our relationship and his respnsibility very seriously.

We never talked specifically about my expectations. I did ask him exactly what he expected from me though. I guess I knew him well enough before I became his submissive to know what he was able to give me and what he wasn't. I have brought up instances where I have felt let down in a very respectful way to discuss them. He has so far always listened and respected me for being honest.

I think maybe I would hurt more if he released me than in a vanilla relationship just because I feel so totally open and exposed with him. He knows more about me and my darkest fantasies than any other person.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I'll be answering from the male Dominant perspective (of course... ):

Ladies, do you ever wonder, if this lifestyle, choosing to be submissive, doesn't put us at a slight disadvantage when it comes to heartbreak? In the last month I think I have counted 6 or 7 of you/us who have been released, or otherwise lost their doms. The resounding feelings of despair and hopelessness, floundering, anger and confusion worries me. Do you think THEY ever feel this way?

That's 6 or 7 of US that's lost our submissives also. For any number of reasons. Frustration, realization that it just isn't going to work, desire to protect them from some other hell going on in our lives, loss of interest, the awareness that "Holly shit, I'm freaking responsible and that's way more than I bargained for...", she lied to me, she's cheated on me, whatever... Oh yeah, we feel lost, hurt, sad, lonely, disappointed, burned, frustrated.

But generally speaking, guys are trained from birth to NOT air our dirty laundry and pour our feelings out for the general public to dissect. That's "unmanly", it's "weak", it "ain't what John Wayne would do..." In otherwords, we stifle it.

Don't they REALIZE when they commit to collaring someone, or otherwise taking them on, what a GINORMOUS responsibility it is? I know there are some wonderful Doms on this list. I'm sure there are many more that we've not heard from/of. It just seems like we're bein dropped, as if we're expendable, and like our very core just doesn't matter. I can compare it to having a baby, then deciding after a year or two, when it gets talking and learning to say "no", that you don't want it anymore, too much hassle whatever, and give it up to someone else.

The open, honest, secure, decent ones do. But there is this HUGE number of guys on here that are ONLY role-playing. They are NOT DOMINANTS. THEY ARE PLAYING GAMES FOR THEIR AMUSEMENT/ENTERTAINMENT ONLY. And THEY assume you are doing these things for the same reason they are. In otherwords, you're looking for fantasy fuel/entertainment. Then, all of a sudden, they find out someone has developed genuine feelings for the character they have been portraying in this OL fantasy game they have been playing, and "Oh shit! This is NOT where I was expecting this to go...."

What happens is this tremendous disconnect between your reality and expectations, and theirs. They may be playing games, you're investing your heart, soul and sense of self in them. They are looking for grins and giggles and stuff to jerk off by. You are looking for love, intimacy, a relationship, dialog, belonging...

And unfortunately, not everyone is up front about what they really want.

I guess that brings me to Point/idea number two. It never occured to me, when looking for a dom, to make sure HE knew what I expected his responsibility to be. Perhaps we, well, I, need to be a little clearer about that. (Tho you'd think a truly "experienced" dom would KNOW this, um, better than newbie me!)

Experienced "Doms" aren't any better at mind reading than the newbie ones are. They MIGHT get better at reading non-verbal communication cues with experience, but online, there AREN'T ANY. Rut-roh... All we have to go by is what the submissive tells us.

But again... keep in mind that the overwhelming vast majority of "Dominants" OL are not, in fact, Dominants at all. They are HNG's playing a game. Nothing more.

Do you think that THEY ever feel the pain/sense of loss and disorientation that released subs do? I've only talked to ONE from here, who has even expressed that he misses his sub. Any insight would be appreciated.

The good ones do feel the loss. But again, we're taught to not express it. We're taught to "suck it up, be a man, don't cry, don't be a wimp..." etc, etc, ad nauseum. What does it tell the world when we have to realease a submissive? That WE, as a Dominant, could not keep our House in order, that WE failed to properly train, instruct, or meet the needs of our submissive, that WE didn't know enough, care enough, communicate enough, whatever, to keep that submissive we were bragging about not so long ago.

For the not-so-good ones, well... after the third or fourth failed relationship in a fairly short period of time, it tells us that at best, they are jumping into relationships with incompatible partners far to quickly, and at worst, they're a player (and not in the good sense), not a "keeper."

Spend time getting to KNOW someone before you give them your heart. Get their history, past partners, find out WHY they say their past relationships failed... Helloooooo... if his last 4 relationships lasted 6 - 8 months each, don't expect YOURS to last much longer... Granted, those past relationships may have been a case of incompatible people jumping in too quick, but what makes you think you are that special/different that HE isn't going to make the same mistakes he has been making all along, hhhhmmm?

Take time, investigate them as a person in depth. their politics, their family, their religious values, their music, their reading habits, their TV shows, the movies they like, etc, etc. What do they really want out of this? Do they really want a relationship, do they want 24/7? Look for consistency, look for reality, not just fantasy in their answers. Players will say what they think you want to hear, the real one's tell you the warts, the scars, their failures, their weaknesses...

And it's STILL a crapshoot.

From OUR side too.

 

[CutieMouse]

Thank you, EG... I remember when things didn't work out with your third, and was hoping you'd be able to weigh in with a dominant's perspective.

 

[WriterDom]

Relationships fail for a number of reasons. Quite often there is blame on both sides. Or sometimes it's purely circumstantial. I usually ask a submissive why her last relationship failed. I don't believe I ever heard one say he dumped my ass. I'm sure it happens on both sides, but usually it's a long story.

 

[wenchhh]

wow, everyone, thanks! Some very thought provoking comments. CM, I feel the need to insert here that *I* truly am not feeling LOST and hopeless. I guess I was a little befuddled the first few days, and very disappointed not to keep exploring this most exciting side of myself and a relationship with a Dom who truly was amazing in my book. Notice my MAJOR need to emphasize that I am "codependant no more" lol. I guess, after reading Geoffs post, that I do recognize now that it was bothersome for aforementioned dom to let me go. He truly has a great opportunity in his life, and well, carpe diem and all that. As far as others go, yeah, EG, you got that right. Definately time to TAKE the time to get to know someone first, and make sure they're all I want, and that I am what they are looking for as well.
Thanks everyone, I just luv ya all!