Submissive/Slave Haven

[sexycaz22]

If I decide I feel like getting tied up one night, and know someone I'd be willing to allow to tie me up, I'll let them tie me up, but the final say about everything that occurs over the course of the evening is mine. (pre-negotiated before tying up occurs). To me, this is bottoming.

If I'm with someone I trust, that I feel an immense desire to please, and am perfectly happy letting him call all the shots with regards to the evening's activities, and willingly comply with those activities; to me that is submitting.

I had a date with a guy years ago, and he wanted to do something he felt was kinky (and I didn't), and was of the opinion I should go along with it because I was submissive. I went along with it because *I* wanted to, not because I was submissive, or he expected it, or he asked it of me. We talked about it afterwards, and he said I was "the oddest submissive woman he'd ever met", because he could look in my eyes, and see I was the one in control of the entire situation, even though I was "submitting" to his wishes. I told him I didn't submit to him, I bottomed because I felt like it. (I refrained from telling him he was way more impressed with his penis than I was, I felt that would be rude...)

Thank you, Cutie, for your answer.

I must admit, I am still feeling confused about the submission and bottoming, you see, to me, I thought they were one and the same thing..... but then it does show the lack of my experiences!

I do think I am getting the idea now...but would appreciate it if some others could answer my question, too?

Thanks

 

[HottieMama]

i REALLY hope my perspective doesn't confuse you further...

Submission for me is a mental and emotional mindset. It guides/shadows everything i do, not just physical acts.

Bottoming is what i do for physical acts. i can still be submissive and "Top" my Dom if that's what he wishes. The physical act doesn't matter at that point...my mindset does. (i am only topping because it is what He wants at that moment, not because He is my submissive.)

 

[Chris_Xavier]

If I decide I feel like getting tied up one night, and know someone I'd be willing to allow to tie me up, I'll let them tie me up, but the final say about everything that occurs over the course of the evening is mine. (pre-negotiated before tying up occurs). To me, this is bottoming.

If I'm with someone I trust, that I feel an immense desire to please, and am perfectly happy letting him call all the shots with regards to the evening's activities, and willingly comply with those activities; to me that is submitting.

I had a date with a guy years ago, and he wanted to do something he felt was kinky (and I didn't), and was of the opinion I should go along with it because I was submissive. I went along with it because *I* wanted to, not because I was submissive, or he expected it, or he asked it of me. We talked about it afterwards, and he said I was "the oddest submissive woman he'd ever met", because he could look in my eyes, and see I was the one in control of the entire situation, even though I was "submitting" to his wishes. I told him I didn't submit to him, I bottomed because I felt like it. (I refrained from telling him he was way more impressed with his penis than I was, I felt that would be rude...)

You are so wise CM. I don't think EG could have said it any better. Obviously I think your definition is "SPOT ON".

 

[DVS]

I agree with what's said about this by others. I think someone with submissive tendencies can be either a bottom or a submissive. The situation is what governs the associated term.

In the beginning of any relationship, until sufficient trust is developed, the proper term to use is bottoming. This is because the necessary level of trust for someone to safely submit to another isn't there. Ths can be in the beginning of a relationship, in a dating situation, or maybe a one night stand. The person "bottoming" isn't totally submissive to the person on top, as if the person on top is still auditioning for the job of Dom.

Once the necesary trust has been developed, the submissive makes the choice to relenquish control and then submits to the top, Because the trust is there, the need to control from the bottom is no longer necessary and so the desire to submit can take over. This could then be a Dom and sub relationship.

The bottom will top from the bottom for different reasons. Maybe there is a desire to control what he/she desires and so must instruct the top, guiding the play in a certain direction. Maybe the bottom has a concern of safety and will use the safe word to slow or stop certain types of play. Some will sometimes call this topping from the bottom.

The submissive will also have the option to use a safe word, but if the relationship is well develped and the trust level is high, both players understand the level of action that is expected. There is an unwritten boundary or threshold that is not crossed in such a relationship, so using a safe word, although still in effect if needed, is much less likely to happen.

For safety reasons, a safe word should always be there, if the top or Dom wants to test the soft limits of the bottom or sub. This then is skirting that unwritten boundary into an untested area...maybe a pain threshold of the submissive or an area of play net yet experienced by the submissive. This testing of soft limits should always be discussed ahead of time.

In a long term D/s relationshp, these things have been decided long ago and may appear to never be an issue. But initially, the trust level of new partners will often dictate the level of submission. Even if the submissive is unaware of this fact, until he/she can totally trust the one in contol, there is always a certain degree of topping from the bottom.

 

[sexycaz22]

DVS, I thank you!

I think I am beginning to get a clearer idea of what would be the difference between a submissive and bottoming.

I do agree, to submit, there have to be a certain level of trust in a relationship between a Dom and a submissive.

DVS, I quite like what you suggest could be a bottom rather than a submissive:

Ths can be in the beginning of a relationship, in a dating situation, or maybe a one night stand.

I think this gives me a more clearer idea of what being a bottom means to me.

So, if let's say, that I am to play with a Dom but we are not in a relationship, but we do have some degree of trust, I would be "bottoming".

But if I was in a long-term relationship, where there is a D/s dynamic enters, then I might be a submissive.

Does this make sense to anyone??

 

[intothewoods]

DVS, I thank you!

I think I am beginning to get a clearer idea of what would be the difference between a submissive and bottoming.

I do agree, to submit, there have to be a certain level of trust in a relationship between a Dom and a submissive.

DVS, I quite like what you suggest could be a bottom rather than a submissive:



I think this gives me a more clearer idea of what being a bottom means to me.

So, if let's say, that I am to play with a Dom but we are not in a relationship, but we do have some degree of trust, I would be "bottoming".

But if I was in a long-term relationship, where there is a D/s dynamic enters, then I might be a submissive.

Does this make sense to anyone??

Well, you have to have a degree of trust to bottom too. It's just more about trusting your body, rather than trusting your mind and emotions.

I rarely let go and submit. And when I do, I find that I am a lot more Toppy in the rest of my play.

And lately, I'll tell ya. I'm kinda obsessed with uh, Topping Dom men. Like sexually. WTF is that? Maybe I'm not so much submissive as girl with a death wish...

 

[sexycaz22]

Well, you have to have a degree of trust to bottom too. It's just more about trusting your body, rather than trusting your mind and emotions.

Yes, I totally agree, I think it is important for me to have trust in myself, even BEFORE I do any sort of sessions or to bottom. I also feel it is kinda important to have some kind of connection with a Dom, even if it is not of an emotional connection. I mean I really, really want to be spanked....and I dream of it every day but I am taking my time and calm myself and remind myself to not just go off with any old Dom, just to satisfy myself. I HAVE to trust the Dom I play with or in a relationship with, but before trusting anyone, I HAVE to have trust in myself, too, to give myself to a Dom for a spanking session.

Which could be why I wanted to go to a local munch this Thursday, just to meet with other people and see what they look like (I know they will be ordinary people, just like you and me!!) but it might give me some confidence of moving from fantasy to reality in the bdsm sense.

 

[intothewoods]

Yes, I totally agree, I think it is important for me to have trust in myself, even BEFORE I do any sort of sessions or to bottom. I also feel it is kinda important to have some kind of connection with a Dom, even if it is not of an emotional connection. I mean I really, really want to be spanked....and I dream of it every day but I am taking my time and calm myself and remind myself to not just go off with any old Dom, just to satisfy myself. I HAVE to trust the Dom I play with or in a relationship with, but before trusting anyone, I HAVE to have trust in myself, too, to give myself to a Dom for a spanking session.

Which could be why I wanted to go to a local munch this Thursday, just to meet with other people and see what they look like (I know they will be ordinary people, just like you and me!!) but it might give me some confidence of moving from fantasy to reality in the bdsm sense.

Eh, I don't need all that for a spanking session. Besides, spanking comes in all different flavors. Stingy, thuddy, hard or kinda nice.

 

[sexycaz22]

Eh, I don't need all that for a spanking session. Besides, spanking comes in all different flavors. Stingy, thuddy, hard or kinda nice.

*smiles* I did not mean, simply just for a spanking session. I must admit, I did go off the point in my "ranting" lol.

But, personally for me, I will have to have some kind of trust in a Dom or ANY guy, to do a first spanking session OR any kind of sessions on me, since I have not experienced anything in real life. Either it to be in submission or with a play-mate.

I don't know if I did make sense to you, but to me, it does make sense....I suppose...kinda.......

(by the way......I do like the sound of these flavors.....mmmmmmm..... )

 

[intothewoods]

*smiles* I did not mean, simply just for a spanking session. I must admit, I did go off the point in my "ranting" lol.

But, personally for me, I will have to have some kind of trust in a Dom or ANY guy, to do a first spanking session OR any kind of sessions on me, since I have not experienced anything in real life. Either it to be in submission or with a play-mate.

I don't know if I did make sense to you, but to me, it does make sense....I suppose...kinda.......

(by the way......I do like the sound of these flavors.....mmmmmmm..... )

Oh, I'm sorry, I think I actually am the one who needs to clarify! I also need to have some trust in anyone I play with. I usually am more comfortable at play parties with a friend of a friend - that kind of thing. I guess I just meant I don't feel I'm giving myself, particularly, when I play.

 

[sexycaz22]

Oh, I'm sorry, I think I actually am the one who needs to clarify! I also need to have some trust in anyone I play with. I usually am more comfortable at play parties with a friend of a friend - that kind of thing. I guess I just meant I don't feel I'm giving myself, particularly, when I play.

Oh, that's fine, not to worry.....I misunderstood!

Thank you for clearing it up!

Now, on a different subject......

I am going to my first munch this Thursday.....feeling a bit nervous but excited!

Hope everyone are well,

 

[Velvet Bubbles]

.. I am going to my first munch this Thursday ..

You'll be fine. Breathe, relax and HAVE FUN!

 

[timaea]

any suggestions for a very inexperienced sub to prepare herself for coping with pain? i thought this would be the place to ask...

i just wanted to apologize for not thanking all of you for responding to my post....i've been unable to check in for a while...

i guess i wasn't being very clear....Master is in another country...and though we've been intimate in the past, we haven't had actual M/s experiences together...physically, that is....on top of this, i have no experience being dominated physically, though i've always known that i wanted to be dominated....i know my training and punishment will include some kind of pain, but i would like to experiment a little bit before meeting Master....not with another person, of course....

am i a masochist? i have no idea, yet....that is something Master and i will probably find out together...i just want to be somewhat prepared...show Him that i'm working hard on pleasing Him...

i mean...spanking myself would seem a bit weird...i'm sure i would probably hold back, right.....?

nipple clamps?

ok, ok...so i'm reeeeaaaally inexperienced.....sorry for rambling...

 

[CutieMouse]

i just wanted to apologize for not thanking all of you for responding to my post....i've been unable to check in for a while...

i guess i wasn't being very clear....Master is in another country...and though we've been intimate in the past, we haven't had actual M/s experiences together...physically, that is....on top of this, i have no experience being dominated physically, though i've always known that i wanted to be dominated....i know my training and punishment will include some kind of pain, but i would like to experiment a little bit before meeting Master....not with another person, of course....

am i a masochist? i have no idea, yet....that is something Master and i will probably find out together...i just want to be somewhat prepared...show Him that i'm working hard on pleasing Him...

i mean...spanking myself would seem a bit weird...i'm sure i would probably hold back, right.....?

nipple clamps?

ok, ok...so i'm reeeeaaaally inexperienced.....sorry for rambling...

First things first - being submissive doesn't automatically mean you have to be a masochist. You said your training/punishment will involve pain - is that because he's told you it will/he wants that, or because you both think that's how things are supposed to work?

It's kind of hard to explore physical sensations without someone giving you the physical sensations. I know Captain's Wench is in a long distance relationship, and she does some things to herself, but I think she's also played with other people.

Yes you can spank yourself, but I can tell you from personal experience, it's a whoooooole different world to feel a flogger that's under someone else's control. Yes you can use clothespins for nipple clamps (they can also be used elsewhere), try waxplay on yourself (read up on that to avoid burns), do some self-bondage or light needleplay, but it's (IMO) hard to explore masochism, solo. A simpler place to start might be exploring if the idea of pain turns you on. Prior to my current relationship, I had just enough experience with things such as clamps or corner time in uncomfortable positions, to realize I wanted it in my relationship, and to suspect I had masochistic tendencies, but I didn't *know* until I got my first real flogging.

 

[HottieMama]

i just wanted to apologize for not thanking all of you for responding to my post....i've been unable to check in for a while...

i guess i wasn't being very clear....Master is in another country...and though we've been intimate in the past, we haven't had actual M/s experiences together...physically, that is....on top of this, i have no experience being dominated physically, though i've always known that i wanted to be dominated....i know my training and punishment will include some kind of pain, but i would like to experiment a little bit before meeting Master....not with another person, of course....

am i a masochist? i have no idea, yet....that is something Master and i will probably find out together...i just want to be somewhat prepared...show Him that i'm working hard on pleasing Him...

i mean...spanking myself would seem a bit weird...i'm sure i would probably old back, right.....?

nipple clamps?

ok, ok...so i'm reeeeaaaally inexperienced.....sorry for rambling...

Don't be sorry for being inexperienced and certainly not for rambling. That's what we're here for.

What about asking your Master for some guidance? Tell him you want to experiment with some pain and ask him to help you get started. (i would venture to say that your innocence is treasured by Him and He will be thrilled to guide you with this.) There are a ton of things you probably have laying around your house that would work great, before you go making a financial investment.

i would def. talk to your Master first though. Perhaps he wants the first erotic pain you feel to be from his hand and not your own...Either way, i am sure He will be just thrilled with you wanting to please Him and explore new things.

 

[timaea]

thank you cm...well, both, i guess....he wants to inflict pain on me, but it's also always been a very big part of my fantazies, etc....i know this doesn't mean that i will actually enjoy the pain itself, but just the fact that i'm pleasing Master....

 

[timaea]

Don't be sorry for being inexperienced and certainly not for rambling. That's what we're here for.

What about asking your Master for some guidance? Tell him you want to experiment with some pain and ask him to help you get started. (i would venture to say that your innocence is treasured by Him and He will be thrilled to guide you with this.) There are a ton of things you probably have laying around your house that would work great, before you go making a financial investment.

i would def. talk to your Master first though. Perhaps he wants the first erotic pain you feel to be from his hand and not your own...Either way, i am sure He will be just thrilled with you wanting to please Him and explore new things.

thank you, hm.....we did talk about it....a lot lately, actually....i think this also has a lot to do with my impatience....really need to work on that...lol....i just discovered this whole new thing....and discovered that the thoughts and desires i have is not craziness...and i just want to explore....but maybe i should just wait for Master to give me the first taste....

 

[HottieMama]

thank you, hm.....we did talk about it....a lot lately, actually....i think this also has a lot to do with my impatience....really need to work on that...lol....i just discovered this whole new thing....and discovered that the thoughts and desires i have is not craziness...and i just want to explore....but maybe i should just wait for Master to give me the first taste....

i can't tell you to wait or not...but i SO hear you on the impatience thing. LC reminds me all the time to be a "patient little one" and that everything will happen in time.

 

[CutieMouse]

thank you cm...well, both, i guess....he wants to inflict pain on me, but it's also always been a very big part of my fantazies, etc....i know this doesn't mean that i will actually enjoy the pain itself, but just the fact that i'm pleasing Master....

<snip>
thank you, hm.....we did talk about it....a lot lately, actually....i think this also has a lot to do with my impatience....really need to work on that...lol....i just discovered this whole new thing....and discovered that the thoughts and desires i have is not craziness...and i just want to explore....but maybe i should just wait for Master to give me the first taste....

I can tell you I have a serious love/hate relationship with "the evil blue thingie" (his flogger). How much I hate it depends on how he's using it. LOL

I second Hottie's advice to ask him for ideas of how to experience some sensation play while y'all are apart - it probably won't give you a perfect idea of what things would be like, but it might help. Another option is to talk to him about looking into spanking clubs/BDSM organizations in your area, and attending some public events, classes, demonstrations, etc. If both of you are comfortable, you could get a feel for things through those avenues (I think Intothewoods has done that pretty successfully).

 

[timaea]

cm....total hijack of my own thread...lol...but i was just reading about your PYL's wish for you to have a tummy tuck.....this kind of interested me....see, i've had two children since Master and i were last intimate, and my tummy is definetely not pretty after that...i'm gonna have a tummy tuck at some point...need to loose a few lbs, though....i take pictures for my Master, but make sure to hide the "ugly" part...lol....but i mean, at some point He will see it, and it makes me scared...how did you cope with this? it seems like you feel pretty comfortable...how do you reach that point?

 

[timaea]

oh, and to answer your suggestion about attending different things....i'm just too shy.....lol...but thank you, maybe in the future...

 

[HottieMama]

cm....total hijack of my own thread...lol...but i was just reading about your PYL's wish for you to have a tummy tuck.....this kind of interested me....see, i've had two children since Master and i were last intimate, and my tummy is definetely not pretty after that...i'm gonna have a tummy tuck at some point...need to loose a few lbs, though....i take pictures for my Master, but make sure to hide the "ugly" part...lol....but i mean, at some point He will see it, and it makes me scared...how did you cope with this? it seems like you feel pretty comfortable...how do you reach that point?

Ok..i know my name isn't CutieMouse...but can i jump in here too?!?! i have been pregnant 4 times in the past 5 yrs, and have had two C-section births. My body is def. not what i want it to be. To top it off, i have huge issues with my boobs...or lack thereof. i have expressed all of this to LC, ad nauseum and his basic concern for me is that i am healthy. That means dropping a few pounds, eating right, and doing all the other things necessary for my physical and emotional well-being. i still want a boob job at some point, but LC is opposed to fake boobs and thinks mine are perfect just the way they are. (And i adore him for that...even if i wish they were bigger.) i guess what i am basically trying to say is that i am sure your Master won't think any part of you is ugly, and would be happy to help and support you in making healthy changes.

 

[CutieMouse]

cm....total hijack of my own thread...lol...but i was just reading about your PYL's wish for you to have a tummy tuck.....this kind of interested me....see, i've had two children since Master and i were last intimate, and my tummy is definetely not pretty after that...i'm gonna have a tummy tuck at some point...need to loose a few lbs, though....i take pictures for my Master, but make sure to hide the "ugly" part...lol....but i mean, at some point He will see it, and it makes me scared...how did you cope with this? it seems like you feel pretty comfortable...how do you reach that point?

I'm totally ambivilant about having a tummy tuck - actually I'm the one reading lots of websites and pointing out all the pain in the ass aspects of having plastic surgery and how it will impact his life. LOL (Ok yes it would be nice to have my corset fit properly, and clothes really really fit properly again, but I'm not convinced it's annoying enough for freaking *surgery*.)

I've had five children. I have about 15-20# to lose to hit my ideal weight, and once I have hit my ideal weight, I'll officially be 97# lighter than I was when I was 9 months pregnant with my last baby - which means I do not have the abdomen of a 19 year old. LOL I look amazing for a 35 year old; I look amazing for a woman who's given birth 5 times (no one believes me when I say I have 5 kids LOL), but I spent a lot of my 20s pregnant and/or nursing, and that physical history is part of my "body-map".

As odd as it sounds, the acceptance began with my work as a volunteer lactation counselor. I finally got my head right with regards to how I view breasts. As a teenager I hated my breasts - I'm about a 34/36 not-quite-B-cup, and I was always self conscious, because guys focus so much on size. I spent 7 years nursing, and 3 doing volunteer work around lactation issues, and somewhere along the line I realized that I could give a shit what men's expectations are regarding my breasts. J has been informed (in very sharp terms) that if he ever expects me to do ANYTHING plastic surgery wise to my breasts, I will leave. Period. (Thankfully he's in total agreement, and thinks I have adorable breasts, and doesn't want to change them because then he'd not get to do wicked things with them. LOL)

The work I did to reach a place where I liked my breasts, gradually extended to the rest of my body. I'm not thrilled to be a bit overweight right now, and it's frustrating the crap out of me, but really... this body is this body. It has history, and experience, and stretch marks, but it also grew life, cuddled toddlers, and still gets honked at when I walk 6 miles a day, so the whole poor self-image thing just doesn't hold water with me anymore. (I hate getting honked at, BTW.)

I have no clue why it didn't bother me for J to see me undressed. It sometimes feels odd to be with a man who has a cuter ass than me (the man's 51 and oh sweet jeebus could he give hot college guys a run for their money...), and he always makes a point to tell me he thinks I'm gorgeous (only once with the side note that we are getting rid of "that", because then you'll be gorgeous AND look hot in a bikini! LOL)... it's just not an issue.

 

[HottieMama]

doesn't want to change them because then he'd not get to do wicked things with them. LOL)

OMg..Thank you..CM. You just made me realize that if i did get implants all the breast play i ADORE would no longer be possible. Ummm...yeah...not willing to give that up just to have bigger boobs.


Sincerely...Thank you for that "reality check."

 

[timaea]

I'm totally ambivilant about having a tummy tuck - actually I'm the one reading lots of websites and pointing out all the pain in the ass aspects of having plastic surgery and how it will impact his life. LOL (Ok yes it would be nice to have my corset fit properly, and clothes really really fit properly again, but I'm not convinced it's annoying enough for freaking *surgery*.)

I've had five children. I have about 15-20# to lose to hit my ideal weight, and once I have hit my ideal weight, I'll officially be 97# lighter than I was when I was 9 months pregnant with my last baby - which means I do not have the abdomen of a 19 year old. LOL I look amazing for a 35 year old; I look amazing for a woman who's given birth 5 times (no one believes me when I say I have 5 kids LOL), but I spent a lot of my 20s pregnant and/or nursing, and that physical history is part of my "body-map".

As odd as it sounds, the acceptance began with my work as a volunteer lactation counselor. I finally got my head right with regards to how I view breasts. As a teenager I hated my breasts - I'm about a 34/36 not-quite-B-cup, and I was always self conscious, because guys focus so much on size. I spent 7 years nursing, and 3 doing volunteer work around lactation issues, and somewhere along the line I realized that I could give a shit what men's expectations are regarding my breasts. J has been informed (in very sharp terms) that if he ever expects me to do ANYTHING plastic surgery wise to my breasts, I will leave. Period. (Thankfully he's in total agreement, and thinks I have adorable breasts, and doesn't want to change them because then he'd not get to do wicked things with them. LOL)

The work I did to reach a place where I liked my breasts, gradually extended to the rest of my body. I'm not thrilled to be a bit overweight right now, and it's frustrating the crap out of me, but really... this body is this body. It has history, and experience, and stretch marks, but it also grew life, cuddled toddlers, and still gets honked at when I walk 6 miles a day, so the whole poor self-image thing just doesn't hold water with me anymore. (I hate getting honked at, BTW.)

I have no clue why it didn't bother me for J to see me undressed. It sometimes feels odd to be with a man who has a cuter ass than me (the man's 51 and oh sweet jeebus could he give hot college guys a run for their money...), and he always makes a point to tell me he thinks I'm gorgeous (only once with the side note that we are getting rid of "that", because then you'll be gorgeous AND look hot in a bikini! LOL)... it's just not an issue.

this just shows how insecure i am about this.....i read the whole thing, i started feeling great about myself for about 20 sec (i love how good you are at expressing yourself, btw) and then i read that part and the not so good feeling came back...