Texas, Where Idiots are Bigger!

[BotanyBoy]

Nearly 15% of Texas' population is on SNAP
The state receives nearly $1.50 in federal aid for every dollar paid into the federal treasury in the form of federal income taxes.

You got a cite for that? Everything I've seen says TX gives more than it takes.

 

[JackLuis]

You got a cite for that? Everything I've seen says TX gives more than it takes.

They've proved to be very high in the idiot exportation market. Can we send Ted Cruz back now?

 

[BotanyBoy]

They've proved to be very high in the idiot exportation market. Can we send Ted Cruz back now?

I guess not.....

Sure...fuck I say we let them go.

 

[Real_American17]

You're either lying about the anarchy or you're delusional about only needing 2 laws that are rather subjective and vague. You don't leave much wiggle room for anything else.

Name one crime that wouldn't fall under it?

If it is a real crime with a victim, and not just a tool for the government to control individual's liberty or steal money through fines, it will be covered by those two guiding principles.

Rape, assault, battery, harassment, defamation, murder, theft, vandalism, etc.

1) Not all of that a turned out to work well. Like it or not private industry hasn't done a very good job of policing itself or providing for society at large in a number of ways and thus government has been asked to step in.

How do we know? Government has had a strangle hold for over 100 years.

We used to have church ran orphanages, hospitals, kitchens, etc. Most public libraries were started by rich people wanting to do something with their money.

Business will regulate itself because:

1) Public opinion, if Company A is doing something bad than customers will go to Company B.

2) If businesses are doing something that has a victim, like dumping sewage, stealing a patent, not honoring a contract, etc. They can be sued.

So companies will have to compete not just with better products, customer service, warranties, prices, but also with their environmental impact, worker safety, and business effects in the free market.

2) The overwhelming, ultra, super majority of the people in this country don't support that idea in the slightest so just short of the total and complete decimation of the US as it's currently known either economically and or physically I just don't see any of that happening in either of our lives.

I agree...unfortunately most of Americans do and they want her tazed repeatedly for it too.

That goes back to making a better breed of People.

Which is a massive undertaking. Both in time, money, and blood.

They basically state that the government can own any goddamn bit of land it wants.

You're wrong.

 

[colddiesel]

They own all of it. The Federal government is not allowed to own land outside of D.C., all holdings are unlawful and unrecognized.

Duh. So they own all the mortgages, all the loans, all the assets, all the stocks. I never mentioned the federal government at all, so where did you pull that from. Wall Street owns Texas was what I said.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Not according to your links I'm not RA. Your links even specify when the Feds are allowed to own land.

The Golden Rule isn't anything you can depend on as a rule or law because everybody is different. Someone has to make the rules.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Name one crime that wouldn't fall under it?

Any of the nonviolent ones.

How do we know? Government has had a strangle hold for over 100 years.

Because it fucked up.

We used to have church ran orphanages, hospitals, kitchens, etc. Most public libraries were started by rich people wanting to do something with their money.

Yea and they were either elitist or sucked total shit. So the people got together and formed public services to pick up the slack.

Business will regulate itself because:

1) Public opinion, if Company A is doing something bad than customers will go to Company B.

2) If businesses are doing something that has a victim, like dumping sewage, stealing a patent, not honoring a contract, etc. They can be sued.

In reality it took the power of force from the federal government outright shutting down peoples businesses either by force or financial penalties and throwing them in prison just to get them to clean up their shit and stop poisoning the public.

The fact that they have completely lost their fucking minds and are jailing families after a storm because magical wetland now doesn't change that.

That goes back to making a better breed of People.

No that goes back to you being completely out of touch with reality.

 

[Real_American17]

Not according to your links I'm not RA. Your links even specify when the Feds are allowed to own land.

Wrong.

The Golden Rule isn't anything you can depend on as a rule or law because everybody is different. Someone has to make the rules.

They are guidelines to make laws. If it doesn't follow them then it shouldn't be a law.

Any of the nonviolent ones.

If it has no victim, why should it be a crime?

Because it fucked up.

No, it took power because that's what government does when not kept in check.

Yea and they were either elitist or sucked total shit. So the people got together and formed public services to pick up the slack.

People have no right to force others to pay for things they want, if I get a group of people to help me mug people it doesn't make it right because we outnumber the victim.

In reality it took the power of force from the federal government outright shutting down peoples businesses either by force or financial penalties and throwing them in prison just to get them to clean up their shit and stop poisoning the public.

You're road only leads to Hitler and Stalin.

You either believe in liberty or tyranny, do you want government dictating your life or not?

Government will not stop with one cookie, they will eat all the cookies in the jar.

The fact that they have completely lost their fucking minds and are jailing families after a storm because magical wetland now doesn't change that.

Is this in response to my post?

No that goes back to you being completely out of touch with reality.

I'm not out of touch with reality, I'm saying it needs to be fixed.

Would you say the man trying to put out his burning house is also out of touch with reality for not sitting on the lawn and watching it burn?

I'm saying there is a problem, I'm saying there is someone responsible, and I'm saying it needs to be addressed and remedied.

 

[Sean Renaud]

It's not wrong, would you like me to to actually copy and past the relevant part of your links because you clearly didn't read them?

No, the Golden rule is not a guideline to making laws because people are not remotely similar enough for it to be useful. Many of us would never think of allowing the government to get involved with a bad deal. If the other guy was smarter than me that's my own damn fault. Additionally what people feel is in no small part shaped by laws.

 

[BotanyBoy]

If it has no victim, why should it be a crime?

Non violent doesn't mean no victim.

I can take all your money, make you a criminal and completely destroy your life and never even see you.

And nothing about the golden rule can do anything about it. We need real laws....real rules and officers to enforce them, or anarchy.

No, it took power because that's what government does when not kept in check.

The most power checked government ever created got it because private industry fucked up and failed to take responsibility to the extent the majority decided gov needed to step in.

People have no right to force others to pay for things they want, if I get a group of people to help me mug people it doesn't make it right because we outnumber the victim.

No but they have a constitutional right to send the government to mug you for the common welfare.

You either believe in liberty or tyranny, do you want government dictating your life or not?

No but I understand that as a member of a society a certain level of tyranny is needed in order to keep the place from becoming a 3rd world shit hole.

It's not as all or nothing as you try to make it, no matter how badly you wish it was.

Government will not stop with one cookie, they will eat all the cookies in the jar.

That may be true but without the government the savages smash the jar and raid the fridge until there is nothing left.

I'm not out of touch with reality, I'm saying it needs to be fixed.

With all or nothing 1776 type solutions....that's called being out of touch with reality.

 

[Real_American17]

It's not wrong, would you like me to to actually copy and past the relevant part of your links because you clearly didn't read them?

You are wrong.

No, the Golden rule is not a guideline to making laws because people are not remotely similar enough for it to be useful. Many of us would never think of allowing the government to get involved with a bad deal. If the other guy was smarter than me that's my own damn fault. Additionally what people feel is in no small part shaped by laws.

I'm not talking about someone getting the better part of a deal, it would protect against someone breaching a contract or coercing someone to sign a contract though.

Non violent doesn't mean no victim.

I can take all your money, make you a criminal and completely destroy your life and never even see you.

But that is still violence, just not physical.

It would still be unallowed under the NAP.

And nothing about the golden rule can do anything about it. We need real laws....real rules and officers to enforce them, or anarchy.

No you need laws that stop real crimes, not laws that make people into criminals.

The most power checked government ever created got it because private industry fucked up and failed to take responsibility to the extent the majority decided gov needed to step in.

No, government came in with a gun and told a bunch of bums they'd solve all their problems if they just gave up some freedom and believed their fairy tale.

Looks like they'd forgotten the wisdom of Franklin:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xg4Uq1W4L8

No but they have a constitutional right to send the government to mug you for the common welfare.

They do not, the Constitution is designed to protect the individual, it is designed to protect the minority from the majority.

51% of people thinking we should kill all faggots or niggers doesn't make it true, and it doesn't justify stealing either. If it is wrong for me to rob you on the streets, it is also wrong for the government to do it because I voted to tax you.

No but I understand that as a member of a society a certain level of tyranny is needed in order to keep the place from becoming a 3rd world shit hole.

Wrong, no tyranny is needed.

Only a force that can carry out law, if I murder someone the police arrest me, the prosecutor tries to prove I'm guilty, the People are the jury and they decide what happens.

It's not as all or nothing as you try to make it, no matter how badly you wish it was.

It is all or nothing.

That may be true but without the government the savages smash the jar and raid the fridge until there is nothing left.

Which is why we have the right to bear arms, and self-defense, that's why we have the right to freely assemble and to form posses or militias so that families, neighborhoods, communities, etc. can face threats.

There will always be enough people willing to fight back, that tyrants, gang lords could never prevail.

With all or nothing 1776 type solutions....that's called being out of touch with reality.

Why? It worked for the Founding Fathers. Countless governments have been overthrown by armed rebellions.

Jefferson said:

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.
...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."​

 

[BotanyBoy]

But that is still violence, just not physical.

Wrong...you don't just get to make up definitions to suit your argument.

vi·o·lence
ˈvī(ə)ləns/Submit
noun
behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
synonyms: brutality, brute force, ferocity, savagery, cruelty, sadism, barbarity, brutishness More
strength of emotion or an unpleasant or destructive natural force.
"the violence of her own feelings"
synonyms: intensity, severity, strength, force, vehemence, power, potency, fervency, ferocity, fury, fire
"the violence of his passion"
LAW
the unlawful exercise of physical force or intimidation by the exhibition of such force.

You're argument is bullshit, you failed now get some personal responsibility like an adult and own that shit son.

No, government came in with a gun and told a bunch of bums they'd solve all their problems if they just gave up some freedom and believed their fairy tale.

Looks like they'd forgotten the wisdom of Franklin:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Key word being essential....

They do not,

Wrong, Oathbreaker....

Article I section 8

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

http://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/articles/article-i

Wrong, no tyranny is needed.

It is all or nothing.

Both history and current reality disagree with you.

Government = tyranny and a society needs a little bit of it to flourish.....otherwise 3rd world shithole....anarchy.

Why?

Because this is 2016, circumstances have changed.

 

[Real_American17]

Wrong...you don't just get to make up definitions to suit your argument.

You are wrong, violence does not need to be physical.

Harassment, stalking, etc. are violence. Fraud, defamation, etc. are violence.

Key word being essential....

You and people like you will give up liberty an inch at a time until you've given a mile.

Wrong, Oathbreaker....

Protecting the Constitution from those that would misuse it.

Article I section 8

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

That doesn't give them to collect by force, stop expanding the power of government.

When they pass the basket around church for donations they are also collecting, but if you don't put anything in nobody locks you in a cage.

Both history and current reality disagree with you.

Government = tyranny and a society needs a little bit of it to flourish.....otherwise 3rd world shithole....anarchy.

You are wrong, you are fighting for the next Hitler or Stalin, you want government to be above the People, the government was created by the People to serve them.

Because this is 2016, circumstances have changed.

Telling me the year doesn't make an argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NgSUuVHxs8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eM-cGUNE4E

 

[phrodeau]

Libertarians are the greedy selfish bastards who want you to believe that all social ills will be cured by charity.

 

[sr71plt]

Libertarians are the greedy selfish bastards who want you to believe that all social ills will be cured by charity.

Somebody else's charity; not theirs. A Libertarian's charity is reserved for him/herself.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You are wrong, violence does not need to be physical.

I never said it had to be physical, I said you can't change the definition to suit your argument.

Here it is again seeing as you failed to comprehend it the first time.

the unlawful exercise of physical force or intimidation by the exhibition of such force.

Fraud, defamation, etc. are violence

No they are not and neither is theft or hacking.

You and people like you will give up liberty an inch at a time until you've given a mile.

What liberty? The liberty to pollute the towns water?

My liberty to what? Exactly?

What essential liberty has the US government taken from you??

Protecting the Constitution from those that would misuse it.

Oathbreaker......you're outright refusing to obey it.

That doesn't give them to collect by force, stop expanding the power of government.

Yea it does, explicitly.

When they pass the basket around church for donations they are also collecting, but if you don't put anything in nobody locks you in a cage.

Government isn't Church, welcome to the conversation.

You are wrong, you are fighting for the next Hitler or Stalin, you want government to be above the People, the government was created by the People to serve them.

No I'm not, you're just making shit up because you got your ass handed to you on a platter.

Stop with all that sore loser ascription....it's sad.

 

[LadyVer]

Hi guys. I'm still in the great neurotic lone star state. You?

 

[phrodeau]

If you want to see the sour side of a church official, try putting a pair of pigeons or a sack of flour into the offering basket. Leviticus 5:7-13.

 

[sr71plt]

You got a cite for that? Everything I've seen says TX gives more than it takes.

Then why haven't you given YOUR cites? It's silly and disingenuous to ask for cites, claim you have them, and then not produce them yourself.

Here you go. It’s a year off, but if you want to stick to your point, you can jolly well evidence it.

Gross federal tax revenue from Texas in 2012: $219,460 million
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_tax_revenue_by_state


Federal spending in Texas in FY2013: $234,459 million
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state


So more federal spending in Texas than federal tax revenue from Texas.

If you don’t like that comparison, provide a better one or stop claiming your argument on that. You could have done this Internet search in a couple of minutes as I did, and maybe you did and didn’t like the results.

I continue to contend that it would be a debilitating economic reality for Texas to do for itself what the federal government does for it—but I don’t have any trouble with it leaving the Union (I also thought the southern states had the right to leave the Union without there being a Civil War.) If Mexico made a grab for Texas, though, you can jolly well expect occupation troops from the United States.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Then why haven't you given YOUR cites?

Because I didn't come in here spitting numbers claiming facts.

It's silly and disingenuous to ask for cites, claim you have them, and then not produce them yourself.

1) no it's silly and disingenuous to make specific claims without any citation.

2)Quote where I claimed to have cites.

If you don’t like that comparison, provide a better one or stop claiming your argument on that.

Same year Ma Jones via quick google says TX gives more than it takes....

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/states-federal-taxes-spending-charts-maps

One from 2014
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/4/16/1292631/-Tax-Freedom-Day-Donor-vs-Taker-States

2015
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/republic3-0/2015/11/reality_versus_rhetoric_in_con058550.php

 

[Iceprincess12]

Are you bigger down in Texas Botany?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Are you bigger down in Texas Botany?

I'm not in Texas.

 

[Iceprincess12]

I'm not in Texas.

I forget sometimes that fun is banned here...

 

[Hypoxia]

Out of curiosity: Does the constitution or charter of any nation-state contain provisions for secession, self-dismemberment, dissolution? Are any political entities formed with an expectation to be peacefully deconstructed later? Is that a rational approach to nation-building?

In other words: Doesn't pushing for legal secession resemble insanity?

(Noted exception: the former Czechoslovakia)

 

[BotanyBoy]

Out of curiosity: Does the constitution or charter of any nation-state contain provisions for secession, self-dismemberment, dissolution? Are any political entities formed with an expectation to be peacefully deconstructed later?

Not that I'm aware of.

Is that a rational approach to nation-building?

In other words: Doesn't pushing for legal secession resemble insanity?

Sure why not?

Do you want to be part of a nation where a huge chunk of it is obstruction/threatening war all the time and fucking hates you with a white hot searing passion? I don't I'm fuckin tired of it.

Why should we force that? Is forcing Texas to live like California thinks Texans should live REALLY that fuckin' important?

Why not enable a peaceable separation instead of forcing war?

We can still do business with them, likely even keep or cooperative military forces together.

But they get to live how they want with their evangelical theocracy, they can ban abortions, have their war on drugs, put 2/3 of their people in prison....whole 9 yards. Fuckin GOP paradise.

The rest of the US doesn't have to put up with the party of no anymore, Clinton becomes the new face of the right wing and we ALL WIN! Shit we could even re-structure the rest of the US to better fit/represent regional demographics, SW/PNW/MW/NE.

Fuck if they take most of or all of the deep south with them EVEN BETTER!! That means the rest of the country loses almost all the welfare states sucking the lifeblood out of our ass's. Or just peel them off TX/LA/MS/AL/GA/SC/NC/AR/TN/FL....just give them that whole lower strip. Then have 5 years of open borders/residency transfers......let ALLLLLL the (R)'s concentrate down there and give a chance for any liberals/atheist/minorities a chance to GTFO.

THOSE would be refugees I would bend over backwards for.

It's really not the worst idea ever......especially not out of Texas. If it were my universe I'd do it just to see how things panned out.