Karen Kraft
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The Heretic said:
Agreed. Good response, Herrie.
The Contribution of Undocumented Immigrants
- Thread starter Karen Kraft
- Start date
Agreed. Good response, Herrie.
ccnyman
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Here's the link
http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006-12-15/us/illegal_immigrants_not_burden_health_care.htm
I'd like to see the Rand Study though.
US report - illegal immigrants not a burden to health care system
15 December 2006
• Watch This Video
A new report released last month in the United States concludes that illegal immigrants do not pose a disproportionate burden upon the U.S. health care system, contrary to increasingly strong rhetoric on the subject over the past two years.
In response to extremely heated political debate over immigration reform, the study was conducted to determine if illegal immigrants were, in fact, contributing to the decline of U.S. health care services.
Adult illegal immigrants tend to be younger and healthier than their legal-resident counterparts, resulting in relatively low use of health care services, according to the study. This directly contradicts many assertions repeatedly made by right-wing politicians and pundits in a strong push to impose harsh immigration reform efforts through various American governmental bodies.
Undocumented adults account for about $6.4 billion a year in national health care expenses, $1.1 billion of which is paid from public funds, according to the study by the Rand Corp., a conservative-leaning think tank. The publicly funded portion represents 1.25% of the total $88 billion in government funds spent on health care for adults other than seniors during 2000.
For comparison, the total cost of upgrades to the wall being constructed on the Mexico-United States border is currently expected to be between $30 and $36 billion and take most of the next decade.
The calculation of the cost of financing illegal immigrant health care was made by extrapolating data collected in 2000 and 2001 for a study of about 2,400 immigrants in Los Angeles County. The study did not account for what portion of the health services received that illegal immigrants paid for. Estimating the amount of health care money spent on undocumented immigrants is difficult because federal law prohibits hospital staff from asking a patient's immigration status.
Rand researchers chose to rely on the 5-year-old Los Angeles study because it contained detailed information on participants' legal or visa status, along with their health status, how much health care they used and whether they had any insurance coverage.
Of the 664 illegal immigrants in the study, 68% were uninsured. Only 19% had a chronic medical condition, compared with 38 percent of American-born adults, the study reported. About 58% of illegal immigrants reported visiting a doctor in the previous year, while 80% of adults born in the country had seen a physician.
About 11% of undocumented immigrants in the study had been hospitalized in the prior year, compared with 13% of the native-born population. Smith said undocumented women have relatively high rates of hospitalization due to childbirth.
"The public cost of immigration is not in health care," said James Smith, a senior economist at Rand and one of the study's authors. In context, the quote was specifically referring to illegal immigration in the U.S., especially of Latino immigrants from Central America and Mexico.
Health care providers that focus on low-income and immigrant populations agreed with the study's findings.
"Immigrants in general tend to be young, working people and they tend to be healthy," said Ralph Silber, executive director of the Alameda Health Consortium, an association of eight nonprofit community health centers. "People who are incredibly sick tend not to be crossing borders, and certainly not crossing borders illegally."
Still, Silber said, he's concerned about undocumented adults who avoid routine health care because of the cost or fear that their status may be discovered.
Illegal immigrants might contribute to crowded emergency rooms and hospitals' financial losses, but they are not the driving factor, said Jan Emerson, spokeswoman for the California Hospital Association.
"It is unfair for the public to place the blame for all of societal ills -- in this case, hospital ills -- on undocumented or illegal immigrants," she said, adding that the vast majority of the country's 46 million uninsured people are native-born or legal residents. "If we were to resolve the issue, we still have major problems with our health care system."
Health care reform is at least as controversial as immigration reform in the United States. For more than two decades there has been a push to make a universal health care system of some sort, similar to that enjoyed in Canada and the United Kingdom.
It is estimated that approximately 43 to 48 million Americans are currently without insurance, something that is increasingly being viewed as a crisis. Many special interests are pushing their personal rhetoric to explain the situation or to place blame, making credible, factual studies difficult to come by.
http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006-12-15/us/illegal_immigrants_not_burden_health_care.htm
I'd like to see the Rand Study though.
US report - illegal immigrants not a burden to health care system
15 December 2006
• Watch This Video
A new report released last month in the United States concludes that illegal immigrants do not pose a disproportionate burden upon the U.S. health care system, contrary to increasingly strong rhetoric on the subject over the past two years.
In response to extremely heated political debate over immigration reform, the study was conducted to determine if illegal immigrants were, in fact, contributing to the decline of U.S. health care services.
Adult illegal immigrants tend to be younger and healthier than their legal-resident counterparts, resulting in relatively low use of health care services, according to the study. This directly contradicts many assertions repeatedly made by right-wing politicians and pundits in a strong push to impose harsh immigration reform efforts through various American governmental bodies.
Undocumented adults account for about $6.4 billion a year in national health care expenses, $1.1 billion of which is paid from public funds, according to the study by the Rand Corp., a conservative-leaning think tank. The publicly funded portion represents 1.25% of the total $88 billion in government funds spent on health care for adults other than seniors during 2000.
For comparison, the total cost of upgrades to the wall being constructed on the Mexico-United States border is currently expected to be between $30 and $36 billion and take most of the next decade.
The calculation of the cost of financing illegal immigrant health care was made by extrapolating data collected in 2000 and 2001 for a study of about 2,400 immigrants in Los Angeles County. The study did not account for what portion of the health services received that illegal immigrants paid for. Estimating the amount of health care money spent on undocumented immigrants is difficult because federal law prohibits hospital staff from asking a patient's immigration status.
Rand researchers chose to rely on the 5-year-old Los Angeles study because it contained detailed information on participants' legal or visa status, along with their health status, how much health care they used and whether they had any insurance coverage.
Of the 664 illegal immigrants in the study, 68% were uninsured. Only 19% had a chronic medical condition, compared with 38 percent of American-born adults, the study reported. About 58% of illegal immigrants reported visiting a doctor in the previous year, while 80% of adults born in the country had seen a physician.
About 11% of undocumented immigrants in the study had been hospitalized in the prior year, compared with 13% of the native-born population. Smith said undocumented women have relatively high rates of hospitalization due to childbirth.
"The public cost of immigration is not in health care," said James Smith, a senior economist at Rand and one of the study's authors. In context, the quote was specifically referring to illegal immigration in the U.S., especially of Latino immigrants from Central America and Mexico.
Health care providers that focus on low-income and immigrant populations agreed with the study's findings.
"Immigrants in general tend to be young, working people and they tend to be healthy," said Ralph Silber, executive director of the Alameda Health Consortium, an association of eight nonprofit community health centers. "People who are incredibly sick tend not to be crossing borders, and certainly not crossing borders illegally."
Still, Silber said, he's concerned about undocumented adults who avoid routine health care because of the cost or fear that their status may be discovered.
Illegal immigrants might contribute to crowded emergency rooms and hospitals' financial losses, but they are not the driving factor, said Jan Emerson, spokeswoman for the California Hospital Association.
"It is unfair for the public to place the blame for all of societal ills -- in this case, hospital ills -- on undocumented or illegal immigrants," she said, adding that the vast majority of the country's 46 million uninsured people are native-born or legal residents. "If we were to resolve the issue, we still have major problems with our health care system."
Health care reform is at least as controversial as immigration reform in the United States. For more than two decades there has been a push to make a universal health care system of some sort, similar to that enjoyed in Canada and the United Kingdom.
It is estimated that approximately 43 to 48 million Americans are currently without insurance, something that is increasingly being viewed as a crisis. Many special interests are pushing their personal rhetoric to explain the situation or to place blame, making credible, factual studies difficult to come by.
Last edited:
ccnyman
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Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye
New York Times
Published: April 16, 2006
CALIFORNIA may seem the best place to study the impact of illegal immigration on the prospects of American workers. Hordes of immigrants rushed into the state in the last 25 years, competing for jobs with the least educated among the native population. The wages of high school dropouts in California fell 17 percent from 1980 to 2004.
Skip to next paragraph
Multimedia
Do Immigrants Affect Wages?
Do Immigrants Affect Wages?
But before concluding that immigrants are undercutting the wages of the least fortunate Americans, perhaps one should consider Ohio. Unlike California, Ohio remains mostly free of illegal immigrants. And what happened to the wages of Ohio's high school dropouts from 1980 to 2004? They fell 31 percent.
As Congress debates an overhaul of the nation's immigration laws, several economists and news media pundits have sounded the alarm, contending that illegal immigrants are causing harm to Americans in the competition for jobs.
Yet a more careful examination of the economic data suggests that the argument is, at the very least, overstated. There is scant evidence that illegal immigrants have caused any significant damage to the wages of American workers.
The number that has been getting the most attention lately was produced by George J. Borjas and Lawrence F. Katz, two Harvard economists, in a paper published last year. They estimated that the wave of illegal Mexican immigrants who arrived from 1980 to 2000 had reduced the wages of high school dropouts in the United States by 8.2 percent. But the economists acknowledge that the number does not consider other economic forces, such as the fact that certain businesses would not exist in the United States without cheap immigrant labor. If it had accounted for such things, immigration's impact would be likely to look less than half as big.
Mr. Katz was somewhat taken aback by the attention the study has received. "This was not intended," he said.
At first blush, the preoccupation over immigration seems reasonable. Since 1980, eight million illegal immigrants have entered the work force. Two-thirds of them never completed high school. It is sensible to expect that, because they were willing to work for low wages, they would undercut the position in the labor market of American high school dropouts.
This common sense, however, ignores half the picture. Over the last quarter-century, the number of people without any college education, including high school dropouts, has fallen sharply. This has reduced the pool of workers who are most vulnerable to competition from illegal immigrants.
In addition, as businesses and other economic agents have adjusted to immigration, they have made changes that have muted much of immigration's impact on American workers.
For instance, the availability of foreign workers at low wages in the Nebraska poultry industry made companies realize that they had the personnel to expand. So they invested in new equipment, generating jobs that would not otherwise be there. In California's strawberry patches, illegal immigrants are not competing against native workers; they are competing against pickers in Michoacán, Mexico. If the immigrant pickers did not come north across the border, the strawberries would.
"Immigrants come in and the industries that use this type of labor grow," said David Card, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley. "Taking all into account, the effects of immigration are much, much lower."
In a study published last year that compared cities that have lots of less educated immigrants with cities that have very few, Mr. Card found no wage differences that could be attributed to the presence of immigrants.
Other research has also cast doubt on illegal immigration's supposed damage to the nation's disadvantaged. A study published earlier this year by three economists — David H. Autor of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Mr. Katz of Harvard and Melissa S. Kearney of the Brookings Institution — observed that income inequality in the bottom half of the wage scale has not grown since around the mid-1980's.
Even economists striving hardest to find evidence of immigration's effect on domestic workers are finding that, at most, the surge of illegal immigrants probably had only a small impact on wages of the least-educated Americans — an effect that was likely swamped by all the other things that hit the economy, from the revolution in technology to the erosion of the minimum wage's buying power.
When Mr. Borjas and Mr. Katz assumed that businesses reacted to the extra workers with a corresponding increase in investment — as has happened in Nebraska — their estimate of the decline in wages of high school dropouts attributed to illegal immigrants was shaved to 4.8 percent. And they have since downgraded that number, acknowledging that the original analysis used some statistically flimsy data.
Assuming a jump in capital investment, they found that the surge in illegal immigration reduced the wages of high school dropouts by just 3.6 percent. Across the entire labor force, the effect of illegal immigrants was zero, because the presence of uneducated immigrants actually increased the earnings of more educated workers, including high school graduates. For instance, higher-skilled workers could hire foreigners at low wages to mow their lawns and care for their children, freeing time for these workers to earn more. And businesses that exist because of the availability of cheap labor might also need to employ managers.
Mr. Borjas said that while the numbers were not large, the impact at the bottom end of the skill range was significant. "It is not a big deal for the whole economy, but that hides a big distributional impact," he said.
OTHERS disagree. "If you're a native high school dropout in this economy, you've got a slew of problems of which immigrant competition is but one, and a lesser one at that," said Jared Bernstein of the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal research group.
Mr. Katz agreed that the impact was modest, and it might fall further if changes in trade flows were taken into account — specifically, that without illegal immigrants, some products now made in the United States would likely be imported. "Illegal immigration had a little bit of a role reinforcing adverse trends for the least advantaged," he said, "but there are much stronger forces operating over the last 25 years."
New York Times
Published: April 16, 2006
CALIFORNIA may seem the best place to study the impact of illegal immigration on the prospects of American workers. Hordes of immigrants rushed into the state in the last 25 years, competing for jobs with the least educated among the native population. The wages of high school dropouts in California fell 17 percent from 1980 to 2004.
Skip to next paragraph
Multimedia
Do Immigrants Affect Wages?
Do Immigrants Affect Wages?
But before concluding that immigrants are undercutting the wages of the least fortunate Americans, perhaps one should consider Ohio. Unlike California, Ohio remains mostly free of illegal immigrants. And what happened to the wages of Ohio's high school dropouts from 1980 to 2004? They fell 31 percent.
As Congress debates an overhaul of the nation's immigration laws, several economists and news media pundits have sounded the alarm, contending that illegal immigrants are causing harm to Americans in the competition for jobs.
Yet a more careful examination of the economic data suggests that the argument is, at the very least, overstated. There is scant evidence that illegal immigrants have caused any significant damage to the wages of American workers.
The number that has been getting the most attention lately was produced by George J. Borjas and Lawrence F. Katz, two Harvard economists, in a paper published last year. They estimated that the wave of illegal Mexican immigrants who arrived from 1980 to 2000 had reduced the wages of high school dropouts in the United States by 8.2 percent. But the economists acknowledge that the number does not consider other economic forces, such as the fact that certain businesses would not exist in the United States without cheap immigrant labor. If it had accounted for such things, immigration's impact would be likely to look less than half as big.
Mr. Katz was somewhat taken aback by the attention the study has received. "This was not intended," he said.
At first blush, the preoccupation over immigration seems reasonable. Since 1980, eight million illegal immigrants have entered the work force. Two-thirds of them never completed high school. It is sensible to expect that, because they were willing to work for low wages, they would undercut the position in the labor market of American high school dropouts.
This common sense, however, ignores half the picture. Over the last quarter-century, the number of people without any college education, including high school dropouts, has fallen sharply. This has reduced the pool of workers who are most vulnerable to competition from illegal immigrants.
In addition, as businesses and other economic agents have adjusted to immigration, they have made changes that have muted much of immigration's impact on American workers.
For instance, the availability of foreign workers at low wages in the Nebraska poultry industry made companies realize that they had the personnel to expand. So they invested in new equipment, generating jobs that would not otherwise be there. In California's strawberry patches, illegal immigrants are not competing against native workers; they are competing against pickers in Michoacán, Mexico. If the immigrant pickers did not come north across the border, the strawberries would.
"Immigrants come in and the industries that use this type of labor grow," said David Card, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley. "Taking all into account, the effects of immigration are much, much lower."
In a study published last year that compared cities that have lots of less educated immigrants with cities that have very few, Mr. Card found no wage differences that could be attributed to the presence of immigrants.
Other research has also cast doubt on illegal immigration's supposed damage to the nation's disadvantaged. A study published earlier this year by three economists — David H. Autor of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Mr. Katz of Harvard and Melissa S. Kearney of the Brookings Institution — observed that income inequality in the bottom half of the wage scale has not grown since around the mid-1980's.
Even economists striving hardest to find evidence of immigration's effect on domestic workers are finding that, at most, the surge of illegal immigrants probably had only a small impact on wages of the least-educated Americans — an effect that was likely swamped by all the other things that hit the economy, from the revolution in technology to the erosion of the minimum wage's buying power.
When Mr. Borjas and Mr. Katz assumed that businesses reacted to the extra workers with a corresponding increase in investment — as has happened in Nebraska — their estimate of the decline in wages of high school dropouts attributed to illegal immigrants was shaved to 4.8 percent. And they have since downgraded that number, acknowledging that the original analysis used some statistically flimsy data.
Assuming a jump in capital investment, they found that the surge in illegal immigration reduced the wages of high school dropouts by just 3.6 percent. Across the entire labor force, the effect of illegal immigrants was zero, because the presence of uneducated immigrants actually increased the earnings of more educated workers, including high school graduates. For instance, higher-skilled workers could hire foreigners at low wages to mow their lawns and care for their children, freeing time for these workers to earn more. And businesses that exist because of the availability of cheap labor might also need to employ managers.
Mr. Borjas said that while the numbers were not large, the impact at the bottom end of the skill range was significant. "It is not a big deal for the whole economy, but that hides a big distributional impact," he said.
OTHERS disagree. "If you're a native high school dropout in this economy, you've got a slew of problems of which immigrant competition is but one, and a lesser one at that," said Jared Bernstein of the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal research group.
Mr. Katz agreed that the impact was modest, and it might fall further if changes in trade flows were taken into account — specifically, that without illegal immigrants, some products now made in the United States would likely be imported. "Illegal immigration had a little bit of a role reinforcing adverse trends for the least advantaged," he said, "but there are much stronger forces operating over the last 25 years."
I can't stand it when these biased research papers are posted as if they were the research to end all argument. It's one side of the story pure and simple. It is limp and timid way of trying to state what you really feel; that you don't like Mexicans and you wish you did not have to live with them.
Tell me how this health problem is different from the health problems brought by by the Irish wave of immigration, the Eastern European wave of immigration, the Asian immigration. European immigration brought Smallpox to the American continent. Nativists complained then, just as you do now. Guess what? America survived.
Say what you mean. Then at least you would have a basis of fact from which to argue!
Tell me how this health problem is different from the health problems brought by by the Irish wave of immigration, the Eastern European wave of immigration, the Asian immigration. European immigration brought Smallpox to the American continent. Nativists complained then, just as you do now. Guess what? America survived.
Say what you mean. Then at least you would have a basis of fact from which to argue!
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And by the way, I don't support illegal immigration. There should be a method of controlling the population growth so that it does not outpace the availability of resources.
But the arguments you use tell me it's not really the legal status of an immigrant that concerns you but that the ethnic status is what concerns you.
All of which makes me wonder. If immigration were somehow halted, would stop complaining? or would you continue your campaign for ethnic cleansing?
But the arguments you use tell me it's not really the legal status of an immigrant that concerns you but that the ethnic status is what concerns you.
All of which makes me wonder. If immigration were somehow halted, would stop complaining? or would you continue your campaign for ethnic cleansing?
Ishmael
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ccnyman said:
If your trying to counter the previous posted reports, you'll have to find the actual report, along with all of the statistics, footnoted of course.
Your two posts are basically prose posing as research. Filled with qualifiers, no statistics, and no verifiable facts.
In other words they are 'opinion' articles and offer nothing that counters the previously linked paper, which is filled with facts, all fully footnoted with the source(s) of the data.
And even there the author totally ignores facts. This past spring a Swift packing house in NB. was raided and shut down after over 50 illegals were arrested and deported. Swift purged all of it's plants of illegals and hired citizens to do the same jobs. I believe the plant that was closed re-opened within a week. The other plants never stopped operation. The base pay scale went up over a $1.00/hr. Thus putting to myth two of the items in your C&P'd articles. The first being that citizens won't do the work, and the second being that illegals don't effect wages in a negative manner. This incident and its attendent facts were widely reported.
Regardless, go get some actual research and post it.
Ishmael
Ishmael
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manstoked said:
Until counter-research is published that's all you have to go on. Everything else is bullshit and feelings. There has been no actual counter-research published to date.
You seem to be of the opinion that all illegals are Mexicans. Why is that? Of the illegals in this country approximately 70% are Latino and of those approximately 60% are from Mexico. The balance of the Latinos are from other Latin American countries. The remaining 30% are from other than Latien American nations and most of those are entering the country across the Canadian-American border. The illegal problem is NOT restricted to one country or ethnic background. The 60 or so illegals rounded up in Massachusetts a few months ago were of middle European origin.
Your post re. the previous immigration waves holds no water. Just a red herring hardly worthy of discussion. First of all that all occured prior to the medical advances that eliminated most of those diseases from this country. Secondly, they immigrated legally (an operative word you seem to want to ignore). And lastly, if anyone was showing signs of illness, the ship was quaruntined (they could do that with ships back then. As a matter of fact, they still can.)
Ishmael
thesorrow07
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Fuckin' brilliant, ain't he?SeanH said:You take him to task for not posting facts then use one anecdote to back yourself up. Genius.
Plasmaball
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and so what Karen? Plenty of LEGALS rape and kill women and kids every year.
while it is bad this happens. Its a poor case
Ishmael
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thesorrow07 said:
The Swift plant issue is not anecdotal. It was well reported. Get to googling. As a matter of fact the reports are already linked here on Lit if you care to do a search for them here.
Ishmael
Edited to add that the Swift raids took place about a year ago, not this past spring.
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Cap’n AMatrixca
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johnnycornbeef said:
An American who needs higher pay to afford health insurance. It's not the rich and their tax breaks destroying America's Middle Class, it's the Mexican Middle Class...
Cap’n AMatrixca
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Ishmael said:
Want to hear what happened to me at IBP when the "evil" oil company purchased it, sped up the chain, and started firing people making $18+ and hiring people at $8.00 who had to flee like Scots everytime immigration showed up? People handling your meat who thought washing their hands after peeing and handling their meat was a lunatic idea?
Cap’n AMatrixca
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Plasmaball said:
Yet when we point out to a glowball warming alarmists how much CO2 nature admits, it's always pointed out that we could eliminate the small addition that we add and it would make a HUGE difference...
The problem is, as we see with the schoolteacher this morning, when our guilty citizens are found in Mexico, they are returned. When their guilty citizens are found, it's like pulling badger teeth with no sedation...
Plasmaball
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Cap’n AMatrixca said:Yet when we point out to a glowball warming alarmists how much CO2 nature admits, it's always pointed out that we could eliminate the small addition that we add and it would make a HUGE difference...
The problem is, as we see with the schoolteacher this morning, when our guilty citizens are found in Mexico, they are returned. When their guilty citizens are found, it's like pulling badger teeth with no sedation...
you want to talk about GW make another thread.
busybody..
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Not likelyvetteman said:
Cap’n AMatrixca
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Plasmaball said:
It's the same underlying principle. Isn't reducing rape and murder from "illegal" workers a good thing?
Plasmaball
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Cap’n AMatrixca said:
no, its bringing an unrelated topic into the main topic to try to thin the waters.
Yes reducing the numbers is always a good thing. Yet to make it some great Hyped up theme that we need better borders is, well hyped up.
I don't do sympathy cards
Ishmael
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Here are some facts to chew on. And I'll even provide the links.
Illegal aliens represent about 25% of of the inmates in the federal prison system although they represent only 5% of the population.
Illegals in federal prison;
GAO report to congress
Total federal prison population, including illegals;
Bureau of Prisons report
Ishmael
Illegal aliens represent about 25% of of the inmates in the federal prison system although they represent only 5% of the population.
Illegals in federal prison;
GAO report to congress
Total federal prison population, including illegals;
Bureau of Prisons report
Ishmael
Cap’n AMatrixca
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Plasmaball said:
You should see their DUI stats.
We've done a helluva good job of getting the massage across to our citizens ('cept the stars), but the illegals don't habla that crap...
It's not hype when they take good jobs and drive down wages. It's happenned to me. I know you distrust evil corporate America, and these guys are their union-busting tools.
Plasmaball
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Cap’n AMatrixca said:You should see their DUI stats.
We've done a helluva good job of getting the massage across to our citizens ('cept the stars), but the illegals don't habla that crap...
It's not hype when they take good jobs and drive down wages. It's happenned to me. I know you distrust evil corporate America, and these guys are their union-busting tools.
Message, we don't rub backs.
You know i think that? Please feel free to find any post of mine where i ever commented on corporate america?
so please don't tell me you know me. You nothing about me except your sad assumptions in order to pigeon hole me into something you can battle against.
you don't know my stance on the border issue.
You just know i called Karens "rape" card crap
Cap’n AMatrixca
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Oh, my bad. Just from conversing with you, well, actually, being lectured at by you, I had come to that conclusion; but you obviously don't like being pinned down, or labeled, you reserve that right for yourself, and love to come in and label me. I thought turn-about was fair play...
Just pointing out that along with the impact of crime and health, there is an economic impact that benefits the consumer and the business, but at what cost to the average American worker...
There is also a loss of shared values and cultural norms and we stoop to accomodate and include them with every benefit a legal citizen is entitled to "plus" in-state tuition for their citizen children thanks to a legal loophole nobody seems to want to close!
Just pointing out that along with the impact of crime and health, there is an economic impact that benefits the consumer and the business, but at what cost to the average American worker...
There is also a loss of shared values and cultural norms and we stoop to accomodate and include them with every benefit a legal citizen is entitled to "plus" in-state tuition for their citizen children thanks to a legal loophole nobody seems to want to close!
Cap’n AMatrixca
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Massage...
