The Democratic 'Tax Plan'

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Reminds of a quote on Refdesk this moring [para]:

An optimist thinks he's living in the best of worlds, a pessimist knows he is...

 

[Saint Peter]

I spoke with a gent that has a Phd in Economics the other day that never heard of Fairtax.org. I emailed him a link.

No responce yet. I will let you know.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Don't hold your breath. It could languish in a stack for years...

 

[Saint Peter]

Don't hold your breath. It could languish in a stack for years...

There is a very good chance the email already beat feet to the dumpster.

His comment was, "fair tax? There is no such animal." I could only think of Koi. Not sure why.

 

[Ishmael]

There is a very good chance the email already beat feet to the dumpster.

His comment was, "fair tax? There is no such animal." I could only think of Koi. Not sure why.

All the more reason to keep the 'un-fairer' tax. *chuckle*

Ishmael

PS I would be interested in his reply, if any.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

You'd know if he had a political bias...

"We don't have to kill the goose, we can open it up and sew it back up!"

 

[Ishmael]

You'd know if he had a political bias...

"We don't have to kill the goose, we can open it up and sew it back up!"

Think of it as a 'tax Cesarean.'

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Pax Consensii

 

[Ishmael]

Pax Consensii

Turning Democrat again?

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Come on and tax me Comedeus...

When was the last time you talked to a Democrat?

They don't seem to be so effusive anymore.

 

[Saint Peter]

Come on and tax me Comedeus...

When was the last time you talked to a Democrat?

They don't seem to be so effusive anymore.

Talked to or talked at?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Outstanding point!

 

[Cheyenne]

That equals 'without the amt no one would pay taxes'?

No, and that's not what I said. We were talking about people paying amt, not everyone. Obviously, the vast majority of taxpayers aren't close to being affected by AMT and aren't part of the discussion about the purpose of the AMT.


You said the purpose of AMT was to make sure you paid tax rather than not pay any due to deductions. The purpose is to make sure you pay "enough" under an old, misguided system that hasn't been properly indexed for inflation.

 

[Saint Peter]

The effusiveness has returned! Yay!!

 

[Saint Peter]

Nevermind.

We are back to sewing up the goose.

 

[Ishmael]

No, and that's not what I said. We were talking about people paying amt, not everyone. Obviously, the vast majority of taxpayers aren't close to being affected by AMT and aren't part of the discussion about the purpose of the AMT.


You said the purpose of AMT was to make sure you paid tax rather than not pay any due to deductions. The purpose is to make sure you pay "enough" under an old, misguided system that hasn't been properly indexed for inflation.

They're taking care of that Chey.

Ishmael

 

[Cheyenne]

They're taking care of that Chey.

Ishmael

I don't like their definition of "enough."

 

[Ishmael]

I don't like their definition of "enough."

Arrange your affairs accordingly.

Ishmael

 

[Saint Peter]

Arrange your affairs accordingly.

Ishmael

The price of Mason Jars will be going up.

 

[Ishmael]

The price of Mason Jars will be going up.

That's the way of most tax havens Petey.

Ishmael

 

[RightField]

To keep it simple....


The AMT was instituted many years ago as a means of making sure that the super rich didn't avoid taxes completely, but it wasn't indexed for inflation like Social Security and a number of other taxes/benefits. Now it's begining to effect middle class voters and will continue to effect a larger and larger % of the population. Many middle class families who are finding themselves strapped by continually increasing tax bills and higher expenses for other things like corn and gas are rebelling to a degree. The republicans want to fix AMT and index it so that it doesn't impact the middle class while the dems want to "reap" the benefits of this "new-found" munificence to create more income transfers.

 

[trysail]

The Balance Sheet of A Bankrupt


The bad news is that The United States of America is already bankrupt.

Balance Sheet
The United States of America

Assets.....................................Liabilities

..............................................Social Security.....$11,000,000,000,000
..............................................Medicare................ 66,000,000,000,000
..............................................Treasury Debt..........9,000,000,000,000

..............................................Total Liabilities...$86,000,000,000,000

Source:https://personal.vanguard.com/VGApp...iews/news_ALL_socialsecurity_10252006_ALL.jsp


Against these known liabilities, the government has the ability to tax:

The whole stock market.........................~$18,000,000,000,000
All of the privately owned real estate.....~35,000,000,000,000
(basically, that's the net worth of everybody in the whole country)

Now comes the $64,000 question: is the U.S. solvent? The answer is: yes, of course- the government can print money. The only problem with printing money is that when the government chooses that alternative, it automatically creates inflation. That's the choice Weimar Germany made- look how well that worked out! So, if the government decided not to print money, where else can it get it? Well, the ugly answer is that it might be forced to tax away the entire net worth of all its citizens. That's right folks- even if you took away ALL of Bill Gates' money and all of Warren Buffett's money and all the money of all the rich people, there still isn't enough to pay for all the promises the politicians have made. Taking all the rich people's money (and everybody else's for that matter), of course, begs the question of why anyone would bother working if the government decides that it's simply going to take away everything anyone earns.

The politicians in this country may not have invented the concept of "something for nothing," but they sure as hell have perfected the art and science of it by promising everything to everybody.

 

[paganangel]

Chey quoted your post, not me. I discounted you as ignorant without having to comment. We'll see if Chey can 'splain. I have no intentiion of even trying.

Ishmael

really?

 

[paganangel]

No, and that's not what I said. We were talking about people paying amt, not everyone. Obviously, the vast majority of taxpayers aren't close to being affected by AMT and aren't part of the discussion about the purpose of the AMT.


You said the purpose of AMT was to make sure you paid tax rather than not pay any due to deductions. The purpose is to make sure you pay "enough" under an old, misguided system that hasn't been properly indexed for inflation.

i said earlier, i'm arguing for it's existance. whether or not it's calculated fairly is something else. you know i wouldn't comment on that.

 

[paganangel]

To keep it simple....


The AMT was instituted many years ago as a means of making sure that the super rich didn't avoid taxes completely, but it wasn't indexed for inflation like Social Security and a number of other taxes/benefits. Now it's begining to effect middle class voters and will continue to effect a larger and larger % of the population. Many middle class families who are finding themselves strapped by continually increasing tax bills and higher expenses for other things like corn and gas are rebelling to a degree. The republicans want to fix AMT and index it so that it doesn't impact the middle class while the dems want to "reap" the benefits of this "new-found" munificence to create more income transfers.

that's not true. if it were i could be affected by it. obviously, i can't.