The real american sniper was a hate-filled psycho.

[BoyNextDoor]

The movie was pretty good. I don't know anything about the guy that it was based upon other than I vaguely remember the news story when he was shot by the mentally unstable Vet he was trying to help.

My take away was war fucking sucks and not going to war is far preferable.

My other thought that was if the US wants to go to war we should institute a draft for that purpose. I am certain that if all the "military age males" (something they referenced a lot in the movie as they profiled people to shoot) in the US of A were in the pool the citizenry would have a vastly more informed opinion and would be much more inclined to use their political power to vote their opinion.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No, freedom is good and necessary.

You seem to take issue with it when others aren't as reverent as you...

Not being a religious person myself

That must be why you want Hollywood to make some more reverent films

I just don't understand why the mere mention of religion scares a tuff guy like you.

If I was scared I wouldn't discuss the topic....but in reality you just gave me a tire iron to beat the shit out of you with.

.

My take away was war fucking sucks and not going to war is far preferable.

Unless conservative!! Then all war all the time!! It's the one thing that has no spending limit and conservatives are happy to economically DESTROY the US of A with.

I still haven't figured out if it's because grubby welfare parasites or if crazy Zionist.

My other thought that was if the US wants to go to war we should institute a draft for that purpose.

That's a horrible idea and totally unnecessary.

Volunteers do it better my friend, for the simple fact they WANT to be there, they WANT to kill kill kill with the cold blue steel and you can't fake that kinda fighter. The guys that get hard on's for sneaking around in the dark, living in holes for days just so they can kill a mother fucker are the ones you want fighting your wars. And the worst thing you can do? Stick someone like Canidcame or Zumi in the mix. Just a couple of those and what was once an elite unit of highly trained killers (exactly what you want your military to be) becomes a shit bag cluster fuck (NOT what you want your military to be).

Volunteer fighting force = the best....the draft is an "all hands on deck, or we are all fucked, prob all fucked anyhow. " move of desperation. Appropriate for something like WWIII....but not much else, esp not these little bullshit wars where we just pointlessly occupy some shit hole because stuff.

There could be a special draft though.......all progeny of federally elected officials will be required to report to MEPS immediately. USA/USMC.....combat arms baby...you want to start a war you're kids are going into the meat grinder so you better be fucking SURE AS FUCK there senator/congress critter fuck face that this war is NECESSARY and without a doubt crucial to the continuation of the USofA's existence as we understand it today. I think that would get the effect you were looking for without watering down our fighting forces with a bunch of non hacking softies with a conscience.

But we all know that won't happen....personal responsibility isn't something politicians are fond of.

I am certain that if all the "military age males" (something they referenced a lot in the movie as they profiled people to shoot) in the US of A were in the pool the citizenry would have a vastly more informed opinion and would be much more inclined to use their political power to vote their opinion.

Yea...lots of conservatives keeping that 'But whemenz and childrenz !!' buuushit as if they don't participate because WHARRRR is a MAN MAN MANZ game.

Ultra derp that got a lot of idiots killed/perma-maimed because they just couldn't waste the kid/woman that ended up killing them.

 

[domroger]

There could be a special draft though.......all progeny of federally elected officials will be required to report to MEPS immediately. USA/USMC.....combat arms baby...you want to start a war you're kids are going into the meat grinder so you better be fucking SURE AS FUCK there senator/congress critter fuck face that this war is NECESSARY and without a doubt crucial to the continuation of the USofA's existence as we understand it today. I think that would get the effect you were looking for without watering down our fighting forces with a bunch of non hacking softies with a conscience.

But we all know that won't happen....personal responsibility isn't something politicians are fond of.

Totally agree with you on that .

 

[jomar]

BotanyBoy...agree in theory about a volunteer army being hungry and visious, but I know a fair number of guys who are joining up simply because they can't find a job. Not your night stalkers, but your shelf stockers.

 

[BotanyBoy]

BotanyBoy...agree in theory about a volunteer army being hungry and visious, but I know a fair number of guys who are joining up simply because they can't find a job. Not your night stalkers, but your shelf stockers.

I know and totally agree with you on that point....but that's a whole different ball of shit I was deliberately avoiding LOL

But it SUPPORTS my sentiments none the less. We see those kids man...it really does not take long to spot the kid who wants to join the team be cause he really WANTS to be there (for what ever reason) and accepts it as a lifestyle/profession they are passionate about. It's that distinct.

And the guy who's there for 3 years to get their life semi together so they can get the fuck on with the GI bill/home loan and take a shot at a 'real' life from a better position? Those types get separated....they almost always end up in the rear with the gear. Some make it into combat arms still...

Those are kinda rare though....most people separate themselves, because combat arms has very little to offer you in the civilian world. All the other stuff as long as you have an honorable discharge it's the ultimate vocational/tech degree you can get....from X ray tech to generator repair mechanic they all have pretty decent jobs when they get out waiting for them. If they miss it there then their time in basic/boot will generally wake them up and weed them out sending them a different direction. Sometimes Drill will even make the suggestion and try to push them into other fields.

I mean sure you get the occasional senators kid on an unrealistic romanticized do gooder crusade for shiny shit to ride on the campaign trail later and kids who are genuinely THAT naive about what they are getting themselves into, just accidents waiting to happen. But they are rare enough they usually just end up some E7/O3 and up's coffee bitch that get's pimped out to the S shops for area beautification details while the rest are on a field excercise learning how to kill better.

I'm not anti draft....I just don't think it should be used for anything other than an truly last resort for an undie filling "HO-LEE- FUCK!!!" situation. Desperate times and such....

 

[KingOrfeo]

My other thought that was if the US wants to go to war we should institute a draft for that purpose.

The DoD doesn't appear to want one. From what I've heard, they're very selective about recruits these days, they won't take HS dropouts or drug users or convicts (time was when judges sometimes would offer convicts military service as an alternative to prison time). (And consider how easy that policy would make it to dodge a draft.) The present doctrine seems to be that a smaller but more qualified pool of troops is better than the kind of forces we used to have when there was a draft.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

OK- so if not a draft how does every American put skin in the game when it comes time make a decision about going to war?

 

[BotanyBoy]

OK- so if not a draft how does every American put skin in the game when it comes time make a decision about going to war?

You FORCE the elected officials to not ask the citizenry any more than they are willing to sacrifice themselves...

Firing up a draft to pull unwilling citizens to serve as a bullet sponges will require the elected officials to offer their progeny to the meat grinder first. Every eligible son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter are first up. And I don't mean fucking file clerks either, Combat mother fuckin' arms.

You can at that point rest about as certain as it gets that should they ever fire up a draft for the purpose of conducting warfare the situation is indeed that fucking dire.

 

[KingOrfeo]

OK- so if not a draft how does every American put skin in the game when it comes time make a decision about going to war?

[shrug] All we can do about that is political things -- vote, write our Congresscritters, write letters to the editor, post on messageboards, try to get media attention, and sometimes make public demonstrations. You could have a system where we have to have a national referendum before going to war, but situations might always arise where we need action taken right away, that's why there's a War Powers Resolution -- not even Congress trusts itself to make a timely decision in a crisis, so it grants the president some latitude to act on his own without Congressional approval for a limited time period. It's certainly impractical to put the question on the next ballot.

 

[1sickbastard]

You FORCE the elected officials to not ask the citizenry any more than they are willing to sacrifice themselves...

Firing up a draft to pull unwilling citizens to serve as a bullet sponges will require the elected officials to offer their progeny to the meat grinder first. Every eligible son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter are first up. And I don't mean fucking file clerks either, Combat mother fuckin' arms.

You can at that point rest about as certain as it gets that should they ever fire up a draft for the purpose of conducting warfare the situation is indeed that fucking dire.

BB, I think you ought to check out (if you've not already done so), War Is a Racket by USMC Major General Smedley Darlington Butler (deceased).
It was written in the 1930's, but a number of his observations, I think, still hold up pretty well.
And for those who've never heard of the man, he was a field commander who managed to win the Congressional Medal of Honor, not once, but twice, so it's not like he was some hippy peacenik.

One of his proscriptions was forcing all war industries to forgo all profits (including the bankers who financed said industries) for their goods and services.
He also suggested no military units being allowed to operate more than 200 miles from the US coasts and never on foreign soil without both a full Declaration of War byy congress AND a national plebiscite held by the citizens who would be liable for the draft and military service in combat roles. (Basically, the people sitting at a desk in the rear or making pastries at boot camp, etc would be ineligible).

I think you'd enjoy reading him quite a bit, BB, and would likely agree with nearly everything he had to say. It does have to be noted that he was an isolationist at a time when the US was one of several great powers (and not the sole superpower) and any long range attack/invasion on the continental US (the lower 48) was nearly impossible from a logistical standpoint.

 

[BotanyBoy]

BB, I think you ought to check out (if you've not already done so), War Is a Racket by USMC Major General Smedley Darlington Butler (deceased).
It was written in the 1930's, but a number of his observations, I think, still hold up pretty well.
And for those who've never heard of the man, he was a field commander who managed to win the Congressional Medal of Honor, not once, but twice, so it's not like he was some hippy peacenik.

One of his proscriptions was forcing all war industries to forgo all profits (including the bankers who financed said industries) for their goods and services.
He also suggested no military units being allowed to operate more than 200 miles from the US coasts and never on foreign soil without both a full Declaration of War byy congress AND a national plebiscite held by the citizens who would be liable for the draft and military service in combat roles. (Basically, the people sitting at a desk in the rear or making pastries at boot camp, etc would be ineligible).

Sounds good to me....

I think you'd enjoy reading him quite a bit, BB, and would likely agree with nearly everything he had to say. It does have to be noted that he was an isolationist at a time when the US was one of several great powers (and not the sole superpower) and any long range attack/invasion on the continental US (the lower 48) was nearly impossible from a logistical standpoint.

I should check out his work then, thanks for the introduction.

I know you think I am but I'm not really an isolationist...I just don't believe in making war unless our ass is seriously on the line, for example we are under direct military attack. Or we have a sufficient economic interest, that is to say we as a nation are getting some bennies out of it, one of our valued allies/assets is under direct threat/attack. Hell I think desert storm was one of the cleanest best uses of the US military since WWII, hands fucking down one of the most air tight textbook uses of the military. Assets were defended sufficiently, goods continued to flow, it was a good day. We didn't go in and try to freedom the fucking shit out kuwait and try to westernize the Kuwaiti people with JDAM's and 50 cals. Man I hope the Iraqi people never submit...I wouldn't have any respect for them if they did.

That is to say if we are going to engage in a long term heavy cost culture wars and policing of other nations problems there needs to be something rather substantial in it for us or we need to GTFO so we don't sink our own country.

 

[1sickbastard]

I know you think I am but I'm not really an isolationist...I just don't believe in making war unless our ass is seriously on the line, for example we are under direct military attack. Or we have a sufficient economic interest, that is to say we as a nation are getting some bennies out of it, one of our valued allies/assets is under direct threat/attack. Hell I think desert storm was one of the cleanest best uses of the US military since WWII, hands fucking down one of the most air tight textbook uses of the military. Assets were defended sufficiently, goods continued to flow, it was a good day. We didn't go in and try to freedom the fucking shit out kuwait and try to westernize the Kuwaiti people with JDAM's and 50 cals. Man I hope the Iraqi people never submit...I wouldn't have any respect for them if they did.

That is to say if we are going to engage in a long term heavy cost culture wars and policing of other nations problems there needs to be something rather substantial in it for us or we need to GTFO so we don't sink our own country.

Yeah, I can see how that would be your mindset and how, based on a number of posts you've made, I could get the wrong perception of how I think you look at the world. It's not like the forums on a porn site encourage discussions that are nuanced, particularly with the shit-spouting trolls running about with a seeing inability to think beyond a bumper sticker if they show any inclination toward thinking at all.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yeah, I can see how that would be your mindset and how, based on a number of posts you've made, I could get the wrong perception of how I think you look at the world. It's not like the forums on a porn site encourage discussions that are nuanced, particularly with the shit-spouting trolls running about with a seeing inability to think beyond a bumper sticker if they show any inclination toward thinking at all.

http://www.nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/saul.jpg

 

[1sickbastard]

http://www.nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/saul.jpg

That should totally be your new av!

 

[BotanyBoy]

That should totally be your new av!

Fantastic idea good sir...

 

[contrifan32]

You seem to take issue with it when others aren't as reverent as you...
That must be why you want Hollywood to make some more reverent films
If I was scared I wouldn't discuss the topic....but in reality you just gave me a tire iron to beat the shit out of you with.
.

You totally missed the point which doesn't surprise me. First I never said that I wanted the Hollywood elites to make more reverent films. I get a chuckle when the elites pan a film because of its content, in this case a war hero who I would suggest saved more American and coalition lives then enemy live he took.

You don't discuss religion, you just criticize every aspect of it which of course is you choice. Any mention of the subject leads you to assume that someone is a right wing religious nut.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Hey Vette, maybe you missed this question after your claim of possessing a Mensa level IQ yesterday.

Still waiting for Vette to say which IQ test gave him a score north of 130. I imagine I'll be waiting for a very long time.

C'mon vette, was it the Stanford-Binet test, the Weschler Adult intelligence scale, or some random "Check your IQ" web site?

 

[oggbashan]

Please note that the US did not declare war during WW2.

Japan attacked before declaring war on the US.

Hitler declared war on the US, one of his more stupid ideas.

Britain DID declare war on Germany after Germany had invaded Poland. That much-maligned Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain did it.

 

[PoppingTom]

Britain DID declare war on Germany after Germany had invaded Poland. That much-maligned Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain did it.

You mean the one every wingnut is calling "Appeaser!! Wihimp !!!" ?

 

[1sickbastard]

Please note that the US did not declare war during WW2.

Technically incorrect.
See document from 77th US Congress, Joint Resolution #116, passed 8 December 1941, declaring war against the Japanese Empire and authorizing the POTUS to direct US combat forces against Japanese targets.
http://research.archives.gov/description/4477429
See document from 77th US Congress, Joint Resolution #119, passed 11 December 1941, declaring war against Germany and authorizing the POTUS to direct US combat forces against German targets.
See document from 77th US Congress, joint Resolution #120, passed 11 December 1941, declaring war against Italy and authorizing the POTUS to direct US combat forces against Italian targets
http://www.legisworks.org/congress/77/publaw-331.pdf (Resolution 119 is on the first page, Resolution 120 is on the second page.

It is true that Germany, Italy & Japan all declared was on the US first, but the US gov't did formally declare war in return.

It has been hypothesized that, had Hitler and Mussolini NOT declared war on the US, American public opinion may not have supported both a war in the Pacific AND a war in Europe, but would have supported a war against the Japanese.

 

[oggbashan]

British Sniper has more kills than American Sniper...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-Royal-Marine-is-worlds-deadliest-sniper.html

British Royal Marine is world's deadliest sniper
Corporal reported to have recorded 173 confirmed kills during tours of Afghanistan and Iraq, putting him ahead of US Navy SEAL Chris Kyle featured in American Sniper film

 

[oggbashan]

Technically incorrect.
See document from 77th US Congress, Joint Resolution #116, passed 8 December 1941, declaring war against the Japanese Empire and authorizing the POTUS to direct US combat forces against Japanese targets.
http://research.archives.gov/description/4477429
See document from 77th US Congress, Joint Resolution #119, passed 11 December 1941, declaring war against Germany and authorizing the POTUS to direct US combat forces against German targets.
See document from 77th US Congress, joint Resolution #120, passed 11 December 1941, declaring war against Italy and authorizing the POTUS to direct US combat forces against Italian targets
http://www.legisworks.org/congress/77/publaw-331.pdf (Resolution 119 is on the first page, Resolution 120 is on the second page.

It is true that Germany, Italy & Japan all declared was on the US first, but the US gov't did formally declare war in return.

It has been hypothesized that, had Hitler and Mussolini NOT declared war on the US, American public opinion may not have supported both a war in the Pacific AND a war in Europe, but would have supported a war against the Japanese.

Thank you for that information.

I still think Hitler's decision was a serious mistake. Probably he would still have lost in Europe - eventually - to the USSR. It might have taken another few years, and all of Continental Europe would have been in the Communist Bloc.

The US contribution in Europe was decisive. I am always grateful for the GIs who liberated Europe (and the British, Canadian, Indian, Australian...).

I visit the cemetery above Omaha Beach from time to time to say 'Thank you'.

 

[RjThoughts]

You totally missed the point which doesn't surprise me. First I never said that I wanted the Hollywood elites to make more reverent films. I get a chuckle when the elites pan a film because of its content, in this case a war hero who I would suggest saved more American and coalition lives then enemy live he took.

You don't discuss religion, you just criticize every aspect of it which of course is you choice. Any mention of the subject leads you to assume that someone is a right wing religious nut.

But you're missing the point, too.

The movie was an "embellishment" of Kyle's "embellished" book. You're choosing to "worship" this man that said he killed 30 looters in post-Katrina New Orleans, an act if he actually did, would have made his a criminal, not only in the eyes of the law, but in the military. You know, General Russel Honore had that city locked down and in no uncertain terms, had those under his charge NOT SHOOT!