The real american sniper was a hate-filled psycho.

[Setanta84]

I take your silence as an admission that you have not seen the movie, and therefore you are only parroting what you have been told by your favorite sources.

I for one have actually seen the movie. I also was 100% against the Iraq war, and in fact believe that taking out Hussein was a huge mistake because he had a firm enough hand to control the people in his country. I believe we are currently reaping what we have sown in that region.

I completely disagree with the way you characterize the movie, but it is pointless to explain why because you have not watched it. See the movie for yourself, then come back and formulate a real opinion. You have your own mind, use it instead of automatically believing what you have been told to think.

Or, after you challenged me to bring up specifics from the movie, I did so, and you asked if I actually saw the movie instead of discussing those points, I figured continuing the exchange with you was fruitless and not worth my time.

 

[lovecraft68]

I take your silence as an admission that you have not seen the movie, and therefore you are only parroting what you have been told by your favorite sources.

I for one have actually seen the movie. I also was 100% against the Iraq war, and in fact believe that taking out Hussein was a huge mistake because he had a firm enough hand to control the people in his country. I believe we are currently reaping what we have sown in that region.

I completely disagree with the way you characterize the movie, but it is pointless to explain why because you have not watched it. See the movie for yourself, then come back and formulate a real opinion. You have your own mind, use it instead of automatically believing what you have been told to think.

That last line covers the majority of the people in the USA right now, they don't need to learn anything for themselves when so and so on facebook will explain it all to them.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Or, after you challenged me to bring up specifics from the movie, I did so, and you asked if I actually saw the movie instead of discussing those points, I figured continuing the exchange with you was fruitless and not worth my time.

No you did not bring up specifics, you merely discussed what happens in the beginning. That is in every review.

Did you or did you not see the movie?

 

[PoppingTom]

American Sniper and Selma share similarities:

"The Left" hates American Sniper without even seeing it because deep down they simply hate the military in general and hate all soldiers.

"The Right" hates Selma without even seeing it because deep down they simply hate the civil rights movement in general and hate all black people.

I say, these are fucking movies, leave your biases at the door and watch them or don't. It's entertainment, not a court reenactment.

Entertainment can be political. Like it or not. Discussions like this one are the result of it.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Entertainment can be political. Like it or not. Discussions like this one are the result of it.

I am happy to debate the politics (or lack thereof) of the movie, but anyone who hasn't actually seen it is merely parroting what they have been spoon fed from their favorite sources. Anyone who does that is proving that he is unable to think for himself. There are no exceptions to this.

 

[PoppingTom]

I am happy to debate the politics (or lack thereof) of the movie, but anyone who hasn't actually seen it is merely parroting what they have been spoon fed from their favorite sources. Anyone who does that is proving that he is unable to think for himself. There are no exceptions to this.

Thing is that I don't want to see that movie after all I read about it, though I have huge respect for Clint Eastwood. And I don't want to read that book. And this for both, political and personal reasons. And I want to talk about that, like many others here.

There are a lot of historical movies out there which aren't much true to history, left things out or blur it, or fictionalize pieces of the memoires. I still watch them if it includes interesting, multi-faceted persons and tells something about the reasons things happened that way. But if these reasons are made up, if the heroism is too obvious without any shades or facetes, it's not even entertaining, it's just wasted time for me.

Maybe people rating movies on explosions expense and bodycount see these things different.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Thing is that I don't want to see that movie after all I read about it, though I have huge respect for Clint Eastwood. And I don't want to read that book. And this for both, political and personal reasons. And I want to talk about that, like many others here.

There are a lot of historical movies out there which aren't much true to history, left things out or blur it, or fictionalize pieces of the memoires. I still watch them if it includes interesting, multi-faceted persons and tells something about the reasons things happened that way. But if these reasons are made up, if the heroism is too obvious without any shades or facetes, it's not even entertaining, it's just wasted time for me.

Maybe people rating movies on explosions expense and bodycount see these things different.

You can't critique a movie you have not seen. If you don't want to see it, don't.

 

[PoppingTom]

You can't critique a movie you have not seen.

Who did that?

 

[Beco]

Who did that?

apparently, you

 

[PoppingTom]

apparently, you

No, I didn't criticized the movie. I said I won't watch it. That's no critic. It's a statement.

 

[RobDownSouth]

If you have not condemned the movie when you have not seen it, then my remarks do not apply to you. I am only outlining the reasonings of people who complain about American Sniper and Selma without seeing them. My post applies to no one else.

Are you now saying that if I'm a liberal and I offer a negative opinion on a movie I haven't seen, it is because I hate the military?

I'm not buying that.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Are you now saying that if I'm a liberal and I offer a negative opinion on a movie I haven't seen, it is because I hate the military?

I'm not buying that.

Yes that is what I think. That or you simply believe the opinions of your favorite news sources without formulating an opinion of your own. Those are the only two options from what I can see.

How can you have a negative opinion on something you have not seen, unless it stems from a bias or blind faith in your favorite news source? I am asking you that in the hopes you will answer it straight because I want to hear your reasoning. I ask the same of Vetteman and his criticism about Selma.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Yes that is what I think. That or you simply believe the opinions of your favorite news sources without formulating an opinion of your own. Those are the only two options from what I can see.

How can you have a negative opinion on something you have not seen, unless it stems from a bias or blind faith in your favorite news source? I am asking you that in the hopes you will answer it straight because I want to hear your reasoning. I ask the same of Vetteman and his criticism about Selma.

You're presenting a classic post hoc fallacy.

If B often follows A, then A occurs BECAUSE B.

There can be many reasons why people of a liberal persuasion don't care for American Sniper. Dislike of Clint Eastwood movies, they don't like jingoistic propaganda, it's too long, it's not factually accurate, they don't like military movies and/or yes, they don't like the military.

For you to declare that the ONLY reason a liberal doesn't like it is becoz "everyone knows" liberals hate the military is to basically cherry pick reasons to meet your own personal confirmation bias.

From what I have read about the movie, it appears to be a jingoistic piece of rah-rah military glorification and propaganda, and there appear to be numerous errors of fact in the movie. As such, I have no desire to watch the movie. It simply doesn't appeal to me. My dismissal of the movie is not related in any way, shape or form to some nebulous "hatred of the military".

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

You're presenting a classic post hoc fallacy.

If B often follows A, then A occurs BECAUSE B.

There can be many reasons why people of a liberal persuasion don't care for American Sniper. Dislike of Clint Eastwood movies, they don't like jingoistic propaganda, it's too long, it's not factually accurate, they don't like military movies and/or yes, they don't like the military.

For you to declare that the ONLY reason a liberal doesn't like it is becoz "everyone knows" liberals hate the military is to basically cherry pick reasons to meet your own personal confirmation bias.

Actually I clarified to say a person who critiques the movie without seeing it either hates the military or has accepted the opinion of someone else, something they read some where. Do you agree or disagree with that? Why?

From what I have read about the movie, it appears to be a jingoistic piece of rah-rah military glorification and propaganda, and there appear to be numerous errors of fact in the movie. As such, I have no desire to watch the movie. It simply doesn't appeal to me. My dismissal of the movie is not related in any way, shape or form to some nebulous "hatred of the military".

What makes you so sure that the people whose opinions you have read are better at critiquing this movie than you would be? Why are you so sure they are smarter than you?

I have no problem with you dismissing the movie. I dismiss movies all of the time. I just don't see why you criticize it based upon the opinions of others. OK, you read that it is jingoistic. What if you are more intelligent than the person who branded it as such, and would have an entirely different opinion had you watched it? Why would you critique based upon the commercial writings of a stranger? Why isn't dismissing enough?

PS you already said you wanted to see it but are waiting for a torrent. I think that was yesterday, maybe day before. I replied that they are out. PM me and I will link you, you can watch and then we can talk. Let's have a real conversation around here for a change of pace.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

No, I didn't criticized the movie. I said I won't watch it. That's no critic. It's a statement.

'
you are a soicalist therefore a coward

 

[PoppingTom]

Actually I clarified to say a person who critiques the movie without seeing it either hates the military or has accepted the opinion of someone else, something they read some where. Do you agree or disagree with that? Why?

You don't need to hate the military. There were movies like "Saving Private Ryan" or "The Hurt Locker" which are military and don't criticize it, and I would love to watch them again.

Thing is: if i I know the person the movie is made about is a glorifyer of war and killing who freely admit and even exaggerate that in his book, and I just hear that the movie about him blurs or skips this part of his personality, and I hear that not only from one but many sources with nearly no voice of dissent, I take that for granted and criticize even the making of such movie. You think we talk about the movie, but we talk about the topic of the movie, as this is the most political part.

What if you are more intelligent than the person who branded it as such, and would have an entirely different opinion had you watched it?

You can say this about a fictional story. It's different with a historical person. There are quite a lot of movies out there picturing Hitler in all his facetes, and I watch them, as long as the movie don't glorify or relativize him and his actions. I would criticize such a movie without watching it.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

You can say this about a fictional story. It's different with a historical person. There are quite a lot of movies out there picturing Hitler in all his facetes, and I watch them, as long as the movie don't glorify or relativize him and his actions. I would criticize such a movie without watching it.

How would you know such a movie is glorifying Hitler if you have never seen it? Because someone told you so, and you believe everything you are told? Because you believe everything you read in the media, so long as it is a favored source?

 

[PoppingTom]

How would you know such a movie is glorifying Hitler if you have never seen it? Because someone told you so, and you believe everything you are told? Because you believe everything you read in the media, so long as it is a favored source?

I listen carefuly to the voices speaking. There are some I trust more, and some I mistrust deeply.

If somebody rejects the mainstream media because it's always lies and he believes "alternative" media with suspicious ways of telling "the truth", he's in no way better than the ordinary people this person accuses of "blind faith".

If the mainstream media tells me a movie is glorifying Hitler, it usually tells me examples backing this up. And I decide for myself if these examples fit my definition of "glorification" or not. I usually don't think it's lies they telling me. You need reasons to tell a lie. That's what I always keep in mind.

 

[Beco]

I listen carefuly to the voices speaking. There are some I trust more, and some I mistrust deeply.

If somebody rejects the mainstream media because it's always lies and he believes "alternative" media with suspicious ways of telling "the truth", he's in no way better than the ordinary people this person accuses of "blind faith".

If the mainstream media tells me a movie is glorifying Hitler, it usually tells me examples backing this up. And I decide for myself if these examples fit my definition of "glorification" or not. I usually don't think it's lies they telling me. You need reasons to tell a lie. That's what I always keep in mind.

If you don't see it for yourself, you're basically doing what Funk is saying you're doing...that is, listening to others, having others make your decisions and beliefs for you.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

If you don't see it for yourself, you're basically doing what Funk is saying you're doing...that is, listening to others, having others make your decisions and beliefs for you.

Exactly.

No one wants to do their own research, everyone just wants to be told what to do, how to think.

 

[PoppingTom]

If you don't see it for yourself, you're basically doing what Funk is saying you're doing...that is, listening to others, having others make your decisions and beliefs for you.

Off course, I 'm listening to others. I do it all the time. What do you want me to do? Close myself in and never talk to somebody? That's the way how Unabomb weird'os were created.

I'm making my decisions and beliefs out of my opinions, and there's no reason for you to think they aren't mine. I can't prove every shit, and nobody does that. Sometimes you simply believe what you read.

And I definitely don't believe YOU that others make my decisions and beliefs. There's no reason to think that way.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

All that arguing to only come in at the end and say you do exactly what I have been saying all along. You should have simply agreed with me to save us all some time.

 

[Wrong Element]

Not offering an opinion on the merits of the movie -- critics I tend to trust have been all over the map on it. I may or may not decide to see it in time.

But it's naive not to believe that the movie, and its success at the box office, is not being used to rehabilitate the war itself. Why else would the pro-war community be so rabid in its defense?

Having lived through the similar effort to use rightwing Vietnam porn to push a revisionist agenda about the other stupidest war in American history, I have no problem offering my opinion on this sort of dishonesty.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Many on the left and most of the posters on here say they don't have to see the movie or read the book. They know that Kyle had "signs that he had some mental problems" and was a "psychopath" because other leftist writer and commentators told them it was so.

Or it could be because I know a whole fuck load of operators/infantrymen, as it's a rather small community, and they are all either total or borderline nuts.

Sorry to burst your bubble but most spec ops guys are neurotic overachievers with strong sociopathic tendencies just like CEO's and politicians. And the best ones are total fucking psychopaths....they just live in a structured/contained world and collared just enough to follow the rules.

Even when they get out...if you got enough shiny shit on your uniform the gubbmint keeps a tight eye on your activity because you just don't teach someone how to conduct various types of warfare in the most effective way known possible and then turn your blind side to them.

They STILL give me a call (retired in 08') any time a politician or w/e comes though my hood just to see where I'm at and what I'm doing and I wasn't even a sniper as my real talents lie in other areas/methods of destructive problem solving.

Know why? Because anyone who voluntarily subjects themselves to the torture of simply the school, much less being part of the unit, so they can have the job/title of the worlds most high speed death machine Navy SEAL Sniper? Has a few screws loose bubba....they even have a specific psych profile they look for, and "well adjusted lover of humanity" ain't it, it reads more along the lines of "Just sane enough to follow orders and crazy enough to wake up excited at the prospect of getting to let the air out of some haji's today. " is the order of the day.

Seriously....elite athletic killers, sure our society may largely loath what they do and dislike having it rubbed in their face, but they aren't wrong when they say the meanest of the dogs guarding our gates are mental jobs of the highest caliber, fringe members of society even within the warrior cast itself and one step away from suicide or a one way trip to a white padded room. They wouldn't be so fucking good at what they do if they weren't.

Not offering an opinion on the merits of the movie -- critics I tend to trust have been all over the map on it. I may or may not decide to see it in time.

But it's naive not to believe that the movie, and its success at the box office, is not being used to rehabilitate the war itself. Why else would the pro-war community be so rabid in its defense?

Having lived through the similar effort to use rightwing Vietnam porn to push a revisionist agenda about the other stupidest war in American history, I have no problem offering my opinion on this sort of dishonesty.

It's a cheer leading flick for war in the middle east. They DID have great tech advisers though, shit was super clean in that regard. The DRAMA however ohhh the emotional turmoil because so morally just and righteousness over 9000 !! Because have to for M'uricuh n' freedumb!!

Was borderline vomit inducing. I spent a few years in the ugliest Iraq/Afghan had to toss at us between (02-08) and never saw even average line grunts have moral issues with popin' haji's like zits on the reg, I doubt any sleep was lost on that one.

But killing? We all volunteered to do just that...no one becomes a US military spec ops operator much less sniper without owning/accepting that first.

Makes it really hard for me to believe a SEAL was so mentally unfit for the job (a problem killing people) as the film makes it seem and even made it through the school much less onto a team. Hell in the Army most of those folks are sent home in basic training, unfit for duty, USN SEALS? No fucking way, if so standards at that school have dropped considerably.

Anyhow...just my 2c.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Sorry to burst your bubble but most spec ops guys are neurotic overachievers with strong sociopathic tendencies just like CEO's and politicians. And the best ones are total fucking psychopaths....they just live in a structured/contained world and collared just enough to follow the rules.

"For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;"
-Rudyard Kipling (or as AJ likes to call him, "Voltaire")

If Contrifan32 were an honest man, which of course he has never been and never will be, he'd admit that he doesn't give a flying fuck about any Navy SEAL....to people like him, they're merely useful tools to use to bash libruls.