To win, we need to demonize conservatism

[Rightguide]

So white nationalists and the alt right are extremists. They advocate removal of some or all aspects of democracy and society, and the use of non-democratic methods
Most conservatives are not extremists - they’re on the right wing of thought but, for example, want to reduce spending to lower taxes, not to penalize a particular group
You could argue that hate and bigotry are more likely to be held by those on the right - but the vast majority still seek democratic aims through democratic methods, rather than the pursuit of hate

It isn't the right burning down cities and chasing down Jews in the streets of America. The left has exposed its hate for all to see.

 

[Rightguide]

No, she attacked Trump and his idiot redhats -- not conservative ideology as such. That's what needs to be demonized. In each and every one of its forms and aspects, as enumerated in post #3.

BS, that's exactly what she did when she attacked MAGA with the lies that in the end cost her the election..

 

[Politruk]

Why don't you stop elevating Hitler and learn what a Fascist really is

*sigh* Once again:

Fascism is based on Palingenetic ultranationalistic populism.

Palingenetic means rebirth or regeneration, more specifically a cleansing such. Once the unwanted elements are washed away, eliminated, or destroyed the remaining old core will bring about a new dawn and reach their proper place.

Ultranationalistic means that the nation, its traditions, and the corresponding sense of unity is paramount. This means that it isn't really possible to import fascism to one country from another—each nation must have its own, and it will express itself in different ways.

Populism means appeal to the masses, usually by appeals to feelings, "common sense", revanchism, or disenfranchisement, and the assertion that the speaker is the true representative of the masses. Often the established elites are the target for this. However, populism in this regard carries a highly elitist core, since the masses are not expected to themselves influence the (self-appointed) leader; they are to follow.

That shoe fits the Trump movement.

It also fits the Reagan Revolution, if anyone can remember back that far.

 

[Politruk]

BS, that's exactly what she did when she attacked MAGA with the lies that in the end cost her the election..

I never heard a lie from Harris and neither did you.

 

[Politruk]

It isn't the right burning down cities and chasing down Jews in the streets of America. The left has exposed its hate for all to see.

So BLM is a leftist thing now?! What an idiot you are!

 

[Rightguide]

I never heard a lie from Harris and neither did you.

That's because you're ignorant or deaf. It's all she does. She's lied about everything.

 

[Politruk]

That's because you're ignorant or deaf. It's all she does. She's lied about everything.

Name one. No one ever did name one during the election, here or elsewhere.

Just compare Harris' PolitiFact rating with Trump's.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

What particular form should this "historical, analytical and social class work" take?

I shouldn’t NEED to be asked this. It ought to be apparent — ESPECIALLY after Tuesday’s disaster! And the question answers itself! It means you analyze US social class history.

How can that be unclear?!

Any real analysis of US social history shows that political reaction, currently epitomized in Donald Trump, consists of ruling class attacks on the working class.

 

[Politruk]

I shouldn’t NEED to be asked this. It ought to be apparent — ESPECIALLY after Tuesday’s disaster! And the question answers itself! It means you analyze US social class history.

How can that be unclear?!

Any real analysis of US social history shows that political reaction, currently epitomized in Donald Trump, consists of ruling class attacks on the working class.

But it also shows the working class does not fight back.

 

[Lazaran]

Reagan conservatism is dead.

A fairly small majority elected DonOld mostly on progressive populist pocketbook issues. (Immigration is a pocketbook issue.)

Now, DonOld has to deliver in his empty promises. (DonOld WILL FAIL to deliver on his empty promises.)

Over the next four years the Democratic Party will be positioning itself to dramatically change government (and the Supreme Court,etc) with a genuinely populist workers’ reformation.

Barring another Covid level event (or maybe because of one), DonOld’s Failure to deliver on his empty populist promises to average American workers, retirees, etc will deliver a true Blue (progressive) wave, imho.

It may not include trans women in women’s sports, the outlawing of fossil fuel, and “eating the rich”, but it will be a seismic shift that will provide enough of a mandate to truly change government and the courts.

Actively demonizing conservatism is totally unnecessary and wasted effort.

Prioritizing delivering positive progressive change for workers is the way to go. Ironically, President Biden and Vice President Harris did a whole lot of good for workers over the past four years. Now DonOld and the MAGAt "republicans" either have to undo President Biden and Vice President Harris’ achievements, and betray the workers and retirees that got DonOlfd and the MAGAt "republicans" elected, or ATTEMPT to follow through on their empty promises and FAIL spectacularly, crashing the economy and pissing off everyone.

I’m going to sit back and enjoy the show. (The standard acorn and derision of MAGAts will continue when warranted.)

 

[Holy_Seduction]

But it also shows the working class does not fight back.

I’m going to take exception to this one, Politruk. I don’t want to defend it because I’m not genuinely committed to it.

The working class is VERY ready to fight and to conduct struggles the likes of which have not been seen in generations. And I wrote on tactics used to suppress them elsewhere.

The reality is, worker struggles are thwarted by the very organizations charged to lead them. There are reasons for which a fistful of United Against Workers executive bosses found themselves rotting in prison.

Last year’s would-be December Railroad Strike is a case in point. The Biden regime made the strike illegal. But to accomplish this, the union worked with the admin and the Railroads. Union bosses used delays and ‘cooling off’ periods UNTIL the [Biden] regime was able to pass the legislation making the strike illegal. Remember PATCO.

Now, does this mean that the working class is defeated? Absolutely not! But it DOES mean that workers must repudiate the unions as the anti-worker organizations that they are. In their place, workers are creating NEW organizations which workers THEMSELVES control.

Worker anger is reaching uncontrollable levels. At some point, it will begin. Unions won’t be able to control it.

As the Trump regime applies ever increasing violence to subjugate or [failing that] destroy “the working class enemy within,” the more workers see their danger and unite to defeat it. Every measure used against workers has a solution. Worker leaders will find solutions in the midst of these crises.

You may not see this. The ruling class does and takes these matters very seriously. Because workers do.

 

[Politruk]

Now, does this mean that the working class is defeated? Absolutely not! But it DOES mean that workers must repudiate the unions as the anti-worker organizations that they are. In their place, workers are creating NEW organizations which workers THEMSELVES control.

I have not heard of these new organizations. What are their names?

 

[Holy_Seduction]

I have not heard of these new organizations. What are their names?

Many of these are identified by profession and/or location, such as The Boeing Workers’ Rank-and-File Committee, or The Western Sydney University Rank-and-File Committee.

Organized in a various countries and including many industries in various sectors, these “Rank-and-File” committees are linked through the IWA-RFC, the International Workers Alliance of Rank and File Committees.

I’m posting this link which will take you to some 500 pieces published over the past five years.

The articles are of several kind. Most committees announce their formation, declare their grievances and list their demands. There are also follow-up pieces that lay out the tactics and other developments as worker struggles develop.

Some pieces delve into company business and expose doings company execs or union bosses.

Workers are moved by the defiance and determination that arises from the articles published. Building these committees takes time and work. But the very assaults on workers gives impetus to the IWA-RFC.

Anyway, check out the link. Let me know what you think!

 

[JaySecrets]

We do need to bear always in mind that the word "conservative" is as demonizable as "liberal." To poison the conservative brand, we need to out-demonize them. Start by pretending there is no difference that matters between "conservative" and "fascist" -- a pretense which in fact grows nearer to the truth every year. Unlike the difference between "liberal" and "communist."

Hey, numbskulls. You have been attempting that for decades. Wanna see how far it got you? PLEASE keep it up!!!

 

[Politruk]

Hey, numbskulls. You have been attempting that for decades. Wanna see how far it got you? PLEASE keep it up!!!

No, since around 1980, it's the RW doing the demonizing. The Dems have been trying to play nice --"When they go low, we go high!" That doesn't work. Gotta go low.

 

[Lazaran]

JaySecretions clearly doesn’t recognize what just happened in this election, nor what it portends for the next election(s) when DonOld FAILS to deliver on ANY of his empty promises or cuts President Biden’s programs that benefit workers.

DonOld’s betrayal of the workers that were dumb enough to believe he would actually help them will trigger (maybe literally) those workers to seek retribution on DonOld and the republicans by voting for the Democrats or third party candidates.

Enjoy these next few years, because they will be the MAGAts’ last.



JaySecretions

 

[Deleted member 6873114]

Really? Demonize conservatism? What the hell have the progs been doing for the past 16 years?

The need of any group to gain power by demonizing others shows that their ideas can stand on their own merit. If a group is demonic than all that is needed is to pull back the curtain and let the sun shine in. For example, calling fake news "fake news." It clearly is and someone just needed to put some light on it.

 

[Politruk]

The need of any group to gain power by demonizing others shows that their ideas can stand on their own merit. If a group is demonic than all that is needed is to pull back the curtain and let the sun shine in. For example, calling fake news "fake news." It clearly is and someone just needed to put some light on it.

CNN ain't fake news. WaPo and NYT ain't. None of the MSM outlets are. To find fake news you have to look at definitely RW outlets like Fox and the Washington Times and NY Post.

 

[Corbie]

CNN ain't fake news. WaPo and NYT ain't. None of the MSM outlets are. To find fake news you have to look at definitely RW outlets like Fox and the Washington Times and NY Post.

I've been a freelance journalist and when I've covered various events, I've always been surprised how often writers at other papers and outlets had a completely different take on the event. And we were both at the same event. The fact is that many of the things the MSM outlets originally said were hoax or disinformation have been proven true, by outlets such as the NY Times, things such as the Hunter Biden laptop story, the Steele Dossier claiming Trump is a Russian operative (BTW you did hear that Putin said he wanted Harris to win) has been proven to be a complete hoax, manufactured and paid for by the DNC and Hillary Clinton's campaign.

 

[JaySecrets]

JaySecretions clearly doesn’t recognize what just happened in this election, nor what it portends for the next election(s) when DonOld FAILS to deliver on ANY of his empty promises or cuts President Biden’s programs that benefit workers.

DonOld’s betrayal of the workers that were dumb enough to believe he would actually help them will trigger (maybe literally) those workers to seek retribution on DonOld and the republicans by voting for the Democrats or third party candidates.

Enjoy these next few years, because they will be the MAGAts’ last.



JaySecretions

You mean like that great economy Biden has given us, right?

 

[Lazaran]

You mean like that great economy Biden has given us, right?

JaySecretions clearly doesn’t understand that things can and WILL get MUCH worse…just like the last time.

JaySecretions also clearly doesn’t understand how DonOld’s fucked up pandemic preparedness and Covid response and his fucked up economic, social, and foreign policies contributed to the inflation, wars, and deaths during President Biden’s administration

DonOld doesn’t get a free pass after significantly contributing to the problems that President Biden had to deal with. Just like G.W. Bush didn’t get a free pass for significantly contributing to the problems President Obama had to deal with.



JaySecretions

 

[AceDesSpades]

Remember this truth brothers and sisters…there is nothing so CLOSED as a liberals OPEN mind.

*chuckle*

There is that. Open and shut.

 

[AceDesSpades]

.... The fact is that many of the things the MSM outlets originally said were hoax or disinformation have been proven true, but outlets such as the NY Times, things such as the Hunter Biden laptop story, the Steele Dossier claiming Trump is a Russian operative (BTW you did hear that Putin said he wanted Harris to win) has been proven to be a complete hoax, manufactured and paid for by the DNC and Hillary Clinton's campaign.

This is good grain, sans chaff...

 

[colddiesel]

We do need to bear always in mind that the word "conservative" is as demonizable as "liberal." To poison the conservative brand, we need to out-demonize them. Start by pretending there is no difference that matters between "conservative" and "fascist" -- a pretense which in fact grows nearer to the truth every year. Unlike the difference between "liberal" and "communist."

This premise is just plain stupid. There are conservatives and progressives in every political movement. Trump is not a conservative at all, if anything he is a radical right wing opportunist. And tell us how much good did labeling and demonizing do for your favoured candidate? If Harris had multiple brain cells she would have gone into the election promising big tax cuts for working people and increases for the wealthy. But terrified of losing the corporate dollar, the Democrats leadership chose to lose their voter base instead.

The Democrats will never win unless they deal with the fact that their voter base is conservative on economic issues and partially so on social issues. They were, and are judging by you and their leadership, out of touch with the voting public.

 

[AceDesSpades]

... if anything he is a[n] ... opportunist....

I said that same thing just a few hours ago.