Ukraine Endgame?

[Fuzzy1975]

You're wrong, and American military analysts must certainly know that.
Tzarist Russia has always combined occupation, with immediate russification

Like Afghanistan....eh?

 

[mayfly13]

Like Afghanistan....eh?

It's what often happens naturally in History; only that Russians are speeding it up.

Let's say in 1o-20 years, Ukrainian Army conquers back those territories.
What will they do then?

Send all those kids born to Russian families, with their families back to Russia? Send all those Ukrainian kids born in Russia who can't speak Ukrainian, back to Ukraine
Stop Russians from learning about Russian writers in schools, and cut off any Russian speaking radio stations?

 

[ll74]

It's what often happens naturally in History; only that Russians are speeding it up.

Let's say in 1o-20 years, Ukrainian Army conquers back those territories.
What will they do then?

Send all those kids born to Russian families, with their families back to Russia? Send all those Ukrainian kids born in Russia who can't speak Ukrainian, back to Ukraine
Stop Russians from learning about Russian writers in schools, and cut off any Russian speaking radio stations?

So you're saying that war impacts the local residents?

Odd.

 

[mayfly13]

Ukrainians have done exactly the same thing (just substitute forced Ukrainisation for forced Russification) in THEIR incorporated territories. So you can't give those back either
That's how History works

 

[ll74]

Ukrainians have done exactly the same thing (just substitute forced Ukrainisation for forced Russification) in THEIR incorporated territories.
That's how big countries work

That's how all wars actually work.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

It's what often happens naturally in History; only that Russians are speeding it up.

Let's say in 1o-20 years, Ukrainian Army conquers back those territories.
What will they do then?

Send all those kids born to Russian families, with their families back to Russia? Send all those Ukrainian kids born in Russia who can't speak Ukrainian, back to Ukraine
Stop Russians from learning about Russian writers in schools, and cut off any Russian speaking radio stations?

Why not look to Afghanistan....it answers all your quires....

Think about it this way. A people gets concurred, everything they had is now gone. A regime takes the place of thier government, new rules and laws are applied.

If those people have children, do you honestly think they will sing praises to their children, about those who over threw their lives or will they teach those children to hate those who concurred them?

You ask the stupidest question sometimes, and come up with the weirdest conclusions....un fucking real......

 

[KeithD]

Success in terms of what? I think it's clear that an intact country is the end goal of those who support it...rather than a conquered one.

The ultimate goal is the same it has ever been for any other U.S. administration--keep open conflict off American soil. The United States didn't set up this fight, so that goal alone is good enough, and it's working so far, including the related goal of keeping U.S. deaths, military or otherwise, nonexistent or close to that. It's succeeding there too.

Beyond that, I've already noted a goal that is working--drain Russian capability down to fourth-world status. That's working too.

The Trumper backbiters are just trying to turn this administration success into something Trumpian.

 

[mayfly13]

Why not look to Afghanistan....it answers all your quires...
Think about it this way. A people gets concurred, everything they had is now gone. A regime takes the place of thier government, new rules and laws are applied.
If those people have children, do you honestly think they will sing praises to their children, about those who over threw their lives or will they teach those children to hate those who concurred them?

You ask the stupidest question sometimes, and come up with the weirdest conclusions....un fucking real......

of course not.

But it worked in the making of Russia and Ukraine.

the process Russians used, is different than what Brits applied in their colonies.

 

[mayfly13]

Probably because Brits suffer from skin-nism.

They gave their conquered ethnicities far more rights than Russians ever did, but they always treated them as different, based on skin color or shape of their eyes.
Russian oppression is far more focused on culture and mentality, than on skin color.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

of course not.

But it worked in the making of Russia and Ukraine.

the process Russians used, is different than what Brits applied in their colonies.

Again, look to Afghanistan, it answers all your questions. Look to Northern Ireland, India, etc etc for the English version.

 

[KeithD]

Again, look to Afghanistan, it answers all your questions. Look to Northern Ireland, India, etc etc for the English version.

I'm happy to give Mayfly's "analysis" all the regard it deserves.

 

[mayfly13]

The ultimate goal is the same it has ever been for any other U.S. administration--keep open conflict off American soil. The United States didn't set up this fight, so that goal alone is good enough, and it's working so far, including the related goal of keeping U.S. deaths, military or otherwise, nonexistent or close to that. It's succeeding there too.

Beyond that, I've already noted a goal that is working--drain Russian capability down to fourth-world status. That's working too.
The Trumper backbiters are just trying to turn this administration success into something Trumpian.

this is actually the only explanation of the American point of view that I trust,
--unlike the massmedia propaganda bullshit--
it makes sense.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Find out for yourself, potato.

They’re not saying anything publicly and the WH statement is vague. The latest invasion began on 4/24. At some point the American public will expect answers on when and how this ends.

 

[rockcasbah]

Protect the secrets of both American party grifts there over the past decade.

 

[rockcasbah]

They’re not saying anything publicly and the WH statement is vague. The latest invasion began on 4/24. At some point the American public will expect answers on when and how this ends.

You didn’t call?

What about the Pentagon?

Armchair Generals like you always know what to do…. Get on it, Miss Marple.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

You didn’t call?

What about the Pentagon?

Armchair Generals like you always know what to do…. Get on it, Miss Marple.

Lol. Nobody was home.

 

[mayfly13]

The ultimate goal is the same it has ever been for any other U.S. administration--keep open conflict off American soil. The United States didn't set up this fight, so that goal alone is good enough, and it's working so far, including the related goal of keeping U.S. deaths, military or otherwise, nonexistent or close to that. It's succeeding there too.

actually, when you explain Biden's end-game like this,
instead of all that bullshit --fighting for freedom and Democracy in Europe blah blah---

one's perception of Biden actually changes: from war-mongerer & figting to reinstate US's hegemony
-- to patriot.


ETA
Not referring to him arming Ukrainians instead of sending full bodies,

 

[mayfly13]

Protect the secrets of both American party grifts there over the past decade.

on a parallel note - have you seen the labs operated by Americans?


I assume that most countries have them - on their own territories.
But why do Americans go to other countries --WUHAN, UKRAINE-- to do experimental biological research????

 

[rockcasbah]

Its called “nimby”.

 

[mayfly13]

Its called “nimby”.

true.


Unfucking believable, how short people's attention span is.
The 2008 Wall Street thievery and bailouts ++ the Faucci/Chinese Wuhan lab criminal disaster were black and white. Unlike the proxy wars, where things are more murky

Yet no Public uprisings or at least ongoing discussions?
Just shows that the global press is now a military-operated institution designed to curry votes or deflect

 

[rockcasbah]

It’s all driven by public opinion.

 

[jomar]

Not only the supply of weapons but they are floating the idea of financing the rebuilding of Ukraine as well. I think at this point it is quite clear that Joe Biden has been compromised by the Ukrainians regarding the corrupt business dealings there of both him and Hunter. Why would he have sent so many billions and risked WWIII with Russia? It certainly isn't in the national security interests of the United States. He is actually drawing down the weapons reserves and future capability of the US military that could very well be engaged by both the Russian and Chinese military. Joe Biden is dancing to the tune of somebody other than the American people he allegedly represents.

My sense is this is all due to a compromised President who has been instructed or blackmailed into destroying or weakening the combat power of the US military. There is really no other explanation for Joe Biden's woke policies that are designed to destroy military unit cohesion and morale and CRT teachings that will turn military personnel against each other. There is no other reason for his efforts that have reduced the budget, combat power, and lethality of the US military as he inches us closer to war. I know that sounds harsh but if it isn't true and only a big mistake you'd expect him to make a mistake in our favor from time to time, but as we see his march to our destruction is both methodical and accelerating.

You got the Truth Social propaganda points out beyond the echo chamber.

Congrats! You win conspiracy nut of the week. Enjoy your parking space!

 

[rockcasbah]

I admit I’d like to see some NATO firepower in this. Fuck ‘em.

And I’m surprised the board Hawks haven’t said it.

 

[LupusDei]

What is the Biden Administration’s goal? To supply Ukraine with weapons and money indefinitely? Is it to get Russia out of Ukraine completely? Or perhaps reach a settlement that lets them keep parts? What does American success look like to the administration?

And did they ever settle on exactly what type of weapons the US is willing to supply and what type it won’t?

What’s the administration’s end game? Or do they even have one?

I'm not American so I can only say what I believe those answers should be. Biden administration's goal is to weaken Russia. He had said that much directly. Supplying Ukraine with weapons and money at a steady but measured rate is the cheapest and efficient way to do just that. Ideally, yes, Russia should eventually be expelled from Ukraine completely, but slower war is more advantageous for American interests than a speedy one.

American success in this conflict is Russia that is punished enough to not be able to threaten neighboring countries for decades if ever and serve as a warning for other potential aggressors, namely, China over Taiwan being forced to think twice before making good on their promises to wage war if Taiwan independence gets formalized.

The weapons are selected to be sent based on most urgent need in U.S. own assessment, keeping eye on costs and other factors, in qualities to keep Ukraine's fight viable and steady, but not necessary to enable quick victory (as that wouldn't drain Russian future capacity enough). Also, there's an ongoing adaptation to really on the ground switching from the initial plan of building and supporting future underground resistance to Ukrainians fighting high intensity war on open, stalled frontlines. Besides, there's a factor of steady escalation to keep Russians from actually doing anything rash on their bluff, weapon quality and value is increased in small steps Russia has no choice but dismiss as unimportant each time. I personally think the caution is excessive, but overall it is still smart strategy. If Ukraine nears collapse, expect to see rapid ramp up of help.

Endgame is Russian military collapse and full defeat on the battlefield, with or without subsequent regime change in Russia itself. I think they would like to avoid disintegration of Russia, although that would be my ideal outcome. Ukraine is a tool in that, what happens to them is secondary, but just out of necessary binary, Russian defeat means Ukrainian victory, with, framed in the right way, brings wealth of other benefits.

I think the bigger question becomes why did we support Ukraine who was fighting against regime change, yet we fought on the other side in Iraq. Who defines those lines and why?

I still believe the type of the regime may have something to do with that, naive idealism it might be.

“Intact” meaning complete and unconditional Russian withdrawal from all occupied areas?

Yes.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Endgame is Russian military collapse and full defeat on the battlefield, with or without subsequent regime change in Russia itself. I think they would like to avoid disintegration of Russia, although that would be my ideal outcome. Ukraine is a tool in that, what happens to them is secondary, but just out of necessary binary, Russian defeat means Ukrainian victory, with, framed in the right way, brings wealth of other benefits.

Lupus, I am kind of curious about your reasons behind the bolded portion. I do agree pretty much with your opinion on everything else you wrote, and I am curious on if you could expand your logic behind your preferred outcome.