Ukraine Endgame?

[BabyBoomer50s]

The only person who will lead things that way is Putin. He wont give way.....

He will not withdraw and there will not be a negotiated settlement. Fragile cease fire won’t end it. This could go on for years with no victory for either side.

 

[ll74]

He will not withdraw and there will not be a negotiated settlement. Fragile cease fire won’t end it. This could go on for years with no victory for either side.

Yep. Putin needs to be overthrown.

 

[Rightguide]

He will not withdraw and there will not be a negotiated settlement. Fragile cease fire won’t end it. This could go on for years with no victory for either side.

The simple fact is the Russians have far more people to draw an army from than Ukraine. It's just a matter of time.

 

[Chobham]

So what if there's a 'cease fire?' The refugees aren't going back, there's nothing to go back to. The industrialized East is under Russian control and the West is agricultural. The infrastructure has been pretty much destroyed and no one in their right mind is going to invest in rebuilding when the Russians can change their mind and tear it all up again.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Except his people don't seem to support him and never really did. Many fled the nation almost as soon at the war kicked off. So that doesn't hold. He's now a wanted criminal which doesn't mean much aside from he has to both be careful about what nations he visits and hope like hell that all his top tier firends don't have a price tag at which he'd become fair game. If my super yacht was impounded because you started a war or anything else any loyalty I had is gone.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

So what if there's a 'cease fire?' The refugees aren't going back, there's nothing to go back to. The industrialized East is under Russian control and the West is agricultural. The infrastructure has been pretty much destroyed and no one in their right mind is going to invest in rebuilding when the Russians can change their mind and tear it all up again.

Unfortunately I don’t see any way this ends well for anyone except perhaps China. Russia’s economy bleeds, NATO military resources and domestic budgets get strained, and Ukrainians suffer severely.

 

[Chobham]

Unfortunately I don’t see any way this ends well for anyone except perhaps China. Russia’s economy bleeds, NATO military resources and domestic budgets get strained, and Ukrainians suffer severely.

There really aren't many bright spots. In many respects it's as if Ukraine is being used as a sacrificial lamb to bleed the Russians.

Let's assume the Russians do prevail. Who's left with the cost of rebuilding (assuming the Russians are interested in rebuilding at all)? Further the Russians will be left with incessant guerrilla warfare and have to allocate troops to keep the place pacified. Given that Russia is in the midst of a demographic collapse they be left without the manpower to mount any conventional offenses against their other neighbors. And those are about the only bright spots.

Regime change in Russia? Sounds good on paper but by all accounts the only heir apparent is even worse than Putin. A populist uprising isn't out of the question but Putin has managed to eliminate any potential populist leader as soon as their name(s) become known. Just one 'unfortunate' accident after another.

 

[Lazaran]

Well now that the RWCJ “members” have got their morning leg pissing out of the way, they can get on with their daily grievances and culture war screeds.

RWCJ “members”

 

[JohnnySavage]

Ukraine needs more soldiers — and fast. Kyiv is preparing for an imminent assault on Russian occupying forces, and while Ukraine does not disclose its casualty counts, commanders in the field have described large losses. In February, a German official said Berlin believed at least 120,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed or wounded since the start of the invasion.

Linky


Here it comes... World Police to the rescue! You knew the M-I-C wasn't going to go without a good war to bounce the bottom line since Afghanistan. Billions and billions on weapons, next it will be American troops to use them.

The US is the dumbest kid on the playground. The oaf the smart kids get to fight their battles for them.

 

[LLCox]

I have no dog in this fight. Stay off my lawn.

 

[Lazaran]

Ukraine needs more soldiers — and fast. Kyiv is preparing for an imminent assault on Russian occupying forces, and while Ukraine does not disclose its casualty counts, commanders in the field have described large losses. In February, a German official said Berlin believed at least 120,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed or wounded since the start of the invasion.

Linky


Here it comes... World Police to the rescue! You knew the M-I-C wasn't going to go without a good war to bounce the bottom line since Afghanistan. Billions and billions on weapons, next it will be American troops to use them.

The US is the dumbest kid on the playground. The oaf the smart kids get to fight their battles for them.

Um……

The article stated that 250,000 Ukrainians will turn 18 this year and be eligible to fight .

Many people are volunteering for the coming “spring offensive”.

Many Ukrainians are returning to Ukraine after being trained on the new weapons systems being provided by their allies.

While every report I have read suggests RUSSIAN SOLDIERS are demoralized and exhausted, it sounds like Ukrainians are still quite motivated.

Advantage goes to the home team.

 

[Rightguide]

So what if there's a 'cease fire?' The refugees aren't going back, there's nothing to go back to. The industrialized East is under Russian control and the West is agricultural. The infrastructure has been pretty much destroyed and no one in their right mind is going to invest in rebuilding when the Russians can change their mind and tear it all up again.

And most of the people in those areas now dominated by the Russians in Ukraine speak Russian as well.

 

[Rightguide]

Except his people don't seem to support him and never really did. Many fled the nation almost as soon at the war kicked off. So that doesn't hold. He's now a wanted criminal which doesn't mean much aside from he has to both be careful about what nations he visits and hope like hell that all his top tier firends don't have a price tag at which he'd become fair game. If my super yacht was impounded because you started a war or anything else any loyalty I had is gone.

Have you seen a poll of the Russian people that can be relied upon concerning their views on the war? Many people fled Ukraine as well. Many more men would have left if Ukraine didn't order their borders closed to escaping males of military age. Russia is the largest country on earth. It has vast resources and manpower, four times the population of Ukraine. It's people up until Gorbachev had always supported autocrats like Putin. If he were to die tomorrow, I'm sure he would be replaced by somebody just like him or worse.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Have you seen a poll of the Russian people that can be relied upon concerning their views on the war? Many people fled Ukraine as well. Many more men would have left if Ukraine didn't order their borders closed to escaping males of military age. Russia is the largest country on earth. It has vast resources and manpower, four times the population of Ukraine. It's people up until Gorbachev had always supported autocrats like Putin. If he were to die tomorrow, I'm sure he would be replaced by somebody just like him or worse.

People fleeing a country under attack isn't the same as being the aggressor. Russia is huge yes, so is China they live in a very small part of all that land.

 

[LupusDei]

And most of the people in those areas now dominated by the Russians in Ukraine speak Russian as well.

You shouldn't confuse speaking Russian as the first language with desire to be ruled by Moscow autocracy.

Pre-war about half of Ukrainians spoke Russian as the first, and often as the only language. Virtually all Ukrainians speak Russian as first or second language. During Soviet times and even beyond, Ukrainian was perceived by many as the "peasant" language; children from Ukrainian families spoke Russian as the "city" language in hopes to prosper more easily. It didn't mean they weren't Ukrainians.

Yes, Russian speakers are more susceptible to Russian propaganda, but even those who fall for it and/or wanted closer economic or cultural ties with Russia has no desire to actually come under Moscow rule. Even who voted for Yanukovich isn't a good proxy for who wanted Russian occupation, virtually nobody did.

 

[ll74]

You shouldn't confuse speaking Russian as the first language with desire to be ruled by Moscow autocracy.

Pre-war about half of Ukrainians spoke Russian as the first, and often as the only language. Virtually all Ukrainians speak Russian as first or second language. During Soviet times and even beyond, Ukrainian was perceived by many as the "peasant" language; children from Ukrainian families spoke Russian as the "city" language in hopes to prosper more easily. It didn't mean they weren't Ukrainians.

Yes, Russian speakers are more susceptible to Russian propaganda, but even those who fall for it and/or wanted closer economic or cultural ties with Russia has no desire to actually come under Moscow rule. Even who voted for Yanukovich isn't a good proxy for who wanted Russian occupation, virtually nobody did.

The reality is that the Ukrainian people voted to be an independent country. And the international community agreed with the borders both prior to 2014 and after the 2014 bullshit annex..

Russia ignores it when convenient.

I only wish the international community would've stood up to Russia when they invaded Georgia

 

[Rightguide]

Leaked documents detail dire assessments of Ukrainian army: reports​

BY LAUREN SFORZA - 04/09/23 8:30 AM ET

"The Washington Post reported that one of the leaked Pentagon documents detailed that Ukraine’s air defense may not be able to protect the front lines through the end of May. One of the documents included an assessment from February from the Defense Department’s Joint Staff, which said Ukraine’s “ability to provide medium range air defense to protect the [front lines] will be completely reduced by May 23,” according to the Post.

The reported classified document also says once Ukraine’s first layer of defense munitions run out, the “2nd and 3rd Layer expenditure rates will increase, reducing the ability to defend against Russian aerial attacks from all altitudes.”

"The document outlined how Ukrainian forces “were almost operationally encircled by Russian forces in Bakhmut,” as of Feb. 25, the Times reported. The documents show top Ukraine leaders offering grim assessments in the ongoing fight for Bakhmut, with Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, Ukraine’s director of military intelligence, saying that the situation was “catastrophic” at the time of the report.

The Times also reported that Roman Mashovets, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s chief of staff Andriy Yermak, said that Ukrainian forces’ esteem was low in Bakhmut."

The rest here: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/...l-dire-assessments-of-ukrainian-army-reports/

 

[jaF0]

Where the Hell is Lupus?

 

[Rightguide]

Where the Hell is Lupus?

Maybe he's in one of those 148,000 freshly dug graves that were seen in overhead imagery that was recently leaked to Col. Doug Macgregor.

 

[Rotadom]

Maybe he's in one of those 148,000 freshly dug graves that were seen in overhead imagery that was recently leaked to Col. Doug Macgregor.

Can you please back this up with the images you claim to have been seen by Macgregor?

 

[Comshaw]

There really aren't many bright spots. In many respects it's as if Ukraine is being used as a sacrificial lamb to bleed the Russians.

Let's assume the Russians do prevail. Who's left with the cost of rebuilding (assuming the Russians are interested in rebuilding at all)? Further the Russians will be left with incessant guerrilla warfare and have to allocate troops to keep the place pacified. Given that Russia is in the midst of a demographic collapse they be left without the manpower to mount any conventional offenses against their other neighbors. And those are about the only bright spots.

Regime change in Russia? Sounds good on paper but by all accounts the only heir apparent is even worse than Putin. A populist uprising isn't out of the question but Putin has managed to eliminate any potential populist leader as soon as their name(s) become known. Just one 'unfortunate' accident after another.

Perhaps a little history might help.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Russian-Revolution

Comshaw

 

[jaF0]

Don't know about the end game, but the next phase seems to be to take to Vlad's home turf.

 

[Rightguide]

What? When?

After Vald's dead?

Will the EU and the US and whoever else keep sending stuff without sending troops?


The Fins and the Swedes are all but in NATO. Ukraine? Either NATO, EU or both? Or will it be assimilated by Vlad?



Something's gotta give. As it is today, it cannot remain to be.

When and if Putin dies. You won't believe who will come next. Think Dmitry Medvedev a hardliner who makes Putin look like a boy scout. While Putin plays 3D chess this guy will play Mumblety-peg with nuclear-tipped missiles.

 

[MajorRewrite]

When and if Putin dies. You won't believe who will come next. Think Dmitry Medvedev a hardliner who makes Putin look like a boy scout. While Putin plays 3D chess this guy will play Mumblety-peg with nuclear-tipped missiles.

You failed to use the lunacy font: pUTiN PlaYs 3d chESs!!!

 

[Buffalogurl]

When and if Putin dies. You won't believe who will come next. Think Dmitry Medvedev a hardliner who makes Putin look like a boy scout. While Putin plays 3D chess this guy will play Mumblety-peg with nuclear-tipped missiles.

^^^^^^^^^^exactly...... president Putin is the boy scout in that group of men..... some folk might need to be careful what they wish for, Medvedev is a hardliner. In my estimation if Medvedev was at the helm Kyiv would be nothing more than a smoldering radioactive vapor....jmho.....