What do you say about European Socialism?

[Sean Renaud]

so then, why hasn't everyone in America created a Apple ... Facebook?

Not everybody has the means. Steve Jobs may not have been born "rich" rich but he was still well off, comes from a family of education as well. That's really just a stupid question however, Jobs was a freak. These people are few and far between. There is no reason why either of those men would have been less sucessful if they were in Europe however.

You want more people creating facebook? Get kids free training in programing. The more kids you have who can program the more people will spit out shit like facebook. That's just a simple fact. UHC would go a long way towards allowing people to take the kinds of risks that start companies as well.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

I find it funny, if you ask any good business person their honest view of government (if they are totally honest) they will tell you how government is in the way...mostly because its dumbasses that are in government. after all, if you were an intelligent person you would be out there doing it.

government offers lazy people, with a little pride a job. but the reality is that a government worker is a half a step over someone on welfare.

government is never, never, never the solution. government however, always in the problem.

in today's world, we need bigger/smaller, faster and better.

in government world, its slower, more expensive, and shit.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Not everybody has the means. Steve Jobs may not have been born "rich" rich but he was still well off, comes from a family of education as well. That's really just a stupid question however, Jobs was a freak. These people are few and far between. There is no reason why either of those men would have been less sucessful if they were in Europe however.

You want more people creating facebook? Get kids free training in programing. The more kids you have who can program the more people will spit out shit like facebook. That's just a simple fact. UHC would go a long way towards allowing people to take the kinds of risks that start companies as well.

but government made him successful, and everyone that lived near him should be just as sucessful

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Not everybody has the means. Steve Jobs may not have been born "rich" rich but he was still well off, comes from a family of education as well. That's really just a stupid question however, Jobs was a freak. These people are few and far between. There is no reason why either of those men would have been less sucessful if they were in Europe however.

You want more people creating facebook? Get kids free training in programing. The more kids you have who can program the more people will spit out shit like facebook. That's just a simple fact. UHC would go a long way towards allowing people to take the kinds of risks that start companies as well.

here is where you lack pride. you want "get kids free..."

a real man would offer ideas on how to make things happen and to PAY for it. this is why Cabrini Green was a shit hole. because it was free. this is why we have 2-10 generations of obama slaves, because its free.

nothing, should EVER be free. otherwise, that free item will be as valuable as Cabrini Green.

you need to stop your desire for being a slave. become a man.

put skin in the game, own it. be successful and stop being someone's bitch.

 

[PoppingTom]

Seems like trolling and countertrolling is the only fun here.

America has more millionaires than just about any other country (China might have past us)

That's true. 0,06625 % of your people become multimillionaires. Compared to 0,02375 % in Germany, or 0,01718 in GB, or 0,00083 % in China.

But Switzerland with 0,083 % is better.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Seems like trolling and countertrolling is the only fun here.




That's true. 0,06625 % of your people become multimillionaires. Compared to 0,02375 % in Germany, or 0,01718 in GB, or 0,00083 % in China.

But Switzerland with 0,083 % is better.

forget about the %, the total number is more important.

under Clinton and Obama, America has become the land of welfare. So America has the highest % of the population living off the 'state'

also, I can't think of another country that has as many people that refuse to work.

 

[BotanyBoy]

once again, you offer nothing up.

Once again, you ignore reality and facts.

I find it funny, if you ask any good business person their honest view of government (if they are totally honest) they will tell you how government is in the way.

That's true (if they are totally honest) they will also tell you that it's a necessary evil.

..mostly because its dumbasses that are in government. after all, if you were an intelligent person you would be out there doing it.

government offers lazy people, with a little pride a job. but the reality is that a government worker is a half a step over someone on welfare.

government is never, never, never the solution. government however, always in the problem.

in today's world, we need bigger/smaller, faster and better.

in government world, its slower, more expensive, and shit.

And here is where you stick your fingers in your ears.

If government was the problem then why are the nations with the least government the shittiest and the nations with the biggest governments the best ?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Nope, if you ask a lot of business people they fucking love the government for a shit ton of reasons. Not only does it stop them from having to do shit themselves like building roads or educating workers. But they also keep other companies down and out of the way in a variety of ways. Like you know why online gambling got banned right? Because Las Vegas and the Indian Casinos went to the government and said "nope, that shit stops and it stops now." And it did because big business owns the government.

but government made him successful, and everyone that lived near him should be just as sucessful

No, not everybody has that kind of skill set. Government isn't magic, it's a damn important tool. It's like saying that everybody could be Micheal Jackson, they can't.

here is where you lack pride. you want "get kids free..."

a real man would offer ideas on how to make things happen and to PAY for it. this is why Cabrini Green was a shit hole. because it was free. this is why we have 2-10 generations of obama slaves, because its free.

nothing, should EVER be free. otherwise, that free item will be as valuable as Cabrini Green.

you need to stop your desire for being a slave. become a man.

put skin in the game, own it. be successful and stop being someone's bitch.

Yep, I do want to get kids free or cheaper education. The cheaper the education we can provide the better off we all are. That would allow a lot more people to "get skin in the game" which doesn't mean what you seem to think it means and slave certainly doesn't. Slaves work very hard for no pay, that's the exact opposite of this scenario.

The value of education is education pure and simple. Everybody in America (virtually) can read, write, perform basic arithmetic. You're correct that the "value" of it went down, imagine a world where only the elites could perform such basic tasks. The value of said skill would go up tremendously but the society wouldn't be better off for it.

Education is the path to freedom, if you seriously think that these people are slaves you should be pushing education like it's crack.

 

[PoppingTom]

forget about the %, the total number is more important.

In total numbers, you've got 4,01 million millionaires, more than ever. This means 1,2% of your population.

We've got 1,13 million. this means 1,4 %

Switzerland has 330 000. That means 4,1 %

 

[NeverEndingMe]

so which is it ... government made Apple .. FB successful, so if that was true then why don't we have more companies like them?

where is the proof that government gave cash to Apple, IBM, FB...

after all, its through government involvement that made the company successful. so anyone and everyone that lives in the area, attended the same schools, drove on the same road, has to be just as successful

 

[PoppingTom]

so which is it ... government made Apple .. FB successful, so if that was true then why don't we have more companies like them?

where is the proof that government gave cash to Apple, IBM, FB...

after all, its through government involvement that made the company successful. so anyone and everyone that lives in the area, attended the same schools, drove on the same road, has to be just as successful

Lets talk about companies that took a lot of money from government, like GM, AIG, Fannie Mae, Northrop Grunman, Lockheed.....

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Lets talk about companies that took a lot of money from government, like GM, AIG, Fannie Mae, Northrop Grunman, Lockheed.....

yes, GM, AIG, Fanni Mae all need to be terminated as well as their employees. perfect example as to how American's fucked over America

 

[NeverEndingMe]

no body will ever say that roads and education are a bad thing. truly successful people will say that people need to pay for their own education past the age of 18.

government is never the solution. government is always the problem.

against, what you people fail to realize is that companies are successful despite what government does. Government adds nor offers any help to business.

Nope, if you ask a lot of business people they fucking love the government for a shit ton of reasons. Not only does it stop them from having to do shit themselves like building roads or educating workers. But they also keep other companies down and out of the way in a variety of ways. Like you know why online gambling got banned right? Because Las Vegas and the Indian Casinos went to the government and said "nope, that shit stops and it stops now." And it did because big business owns the government.



No, not everybody has that kind of skill set. Government isn't magic, it's a damn important tool. It's like saying that everybody could be Micheal Jackson, they can't.




Yep, I do want to get kids free or cheaper education. The cheaper the education we can provide the better off we all are. That would allow a lot more people to "get skin in the game" which doesn't mean what you seem to think it means and slave certainly doesn't. Slaves work very hard for no pay, that's the exact opposite of this scenario.

The value of education is education pure and simple. Everybody in America (virtually) can read, write, perform basic arithmetic. You're correct that the "value" of it went down, imagine a world where only the elites could perform such basic tasks. The value of said skill would go up tremendously but the society wouldn't be better off for it.

Education is the path to freedom, if you seriously think that these people are slaves you should be pushing education like it's crack.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Seems like trolling and countertrolling is the only fun here.




That's true. 0,06625 % of your people become multimillionaires. Compared to 0,02375 % in Germany, or 0,01718 in GB, or 0,00083 % in China.

But Switzerland with 0,083 % is better.

I'm curious if that is weighed for cost of living. Even in the US there is a huge difference in what it costs to live in certain places, and I'm not even talking about shit neighborhoods.

so which is it ... government made Apple .. FB successful, so if that was true then why don't we have more companies like them?

where is the proof that government gave cash to Apple, IBM, FB...

after all, its through government involvement that made the company successful. so anyone and everyone that lives in the area, attended the same schools, drove on the same road, has to be just as successful

It's both. It's very simple, the government had a large part to play. It provided education for those people, provided roads, provides patents and a whole host of other things. Those men like Jobs and Zuckerberg and Gates and Musk are all incredibly special people but without the tools they have available they wouldn't be nearly as successful as they are.

We've been over this, they don't have to give money. Though in the case of Apple I highly doubt they would have survived the 90's if they hadn't been the computer of choice for schools. Granted they owed them for donating stuff back in the eighties but that doesn't change the facts.

No, not everybody has remotedly equal skills Jen. No two people have exactly the same skill set. Even with everything equal we're going to have winners and losers. The goal of course is to get more winners and that is done through providing more tools to more people. That doesn't mean everybody is going to to be awesome, not remotely. I don't see what's confusing.

 

[PoppingTom]

yes, GM, AIG, Fanni Mae all need to be terminated as well as their employees. perfect example as to how American's fucked over America

People still have their jobs. What the fuck is wrong with that?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

People still have their jobs. What the fuck is wrong with that?

ah yes, we can't fire the low lifes that add no value to the company. the ones that get drunk on the job ... the ones that are always late or miss days....

a job, in your world is for life.

insanity

 

[phrodeau]

so which is it ... government made Apple .. FB successful, so if that was true then why don't we have more companies like them?

where is the proof that government gave cash to Apple, IBM, FB...

after all, its through government involvement that made the company successful. so anyone and everyone that lives in the area, attended the same schools, drove on the same road, has to be just as successful

Sure. There are millions of businesses in the US every bit as successful as Apple, IBM and Facebook. Who are you to say they aren't?

 

[Iceprincess12]

ah yes, we can't fire the low lifes that add no value to the company. the ones that get drunk on the job ... the ones that are always late or miss days....

a job, in your world is for life.

insanity

Better to let them keep working and paying taxes than collecting unemployment and being a total waste of air.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

again, no one in a position of power has ever looked forward to dealing with government or anyone in government. reasons vary, mostly do go those in government still living in the 19th century

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Better to let them keep working and paying taxes than collecting unemployment and being a total waste of air.

only, it is a negative ROI

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Sure. There are millions of businesses in the US every bit as successful as Apple, IBM and Facebook. Who are you to say they aren't?

yes, we have a million Apple computers, million IBM companies out there ... oh yeah, and a million companies that are just like Facebook

wow, are you trying to be this stupid?

 

[PoppingTom]

I'm curious if that is weighed for cost of living. Even in the US there is a huge difference in what it costs to live in certain places, and I'm not even talking about shit neighborhoods.

Depends, really.

Here in Berlin, everything is cheap. With good luck, you get a flat for 300 Euro, I even saw some for 150. In Munich, it's impossible to get a flat under 800 Euro - if at all. But a job that pays 10 euro/h in Berlin will get you 17 in Munich. And if a Berliner is lucky enough to catch a skilled job in Switzerland , he can easily triple his income. And it's possible to get a cheap commodation for the time working there. Some people do it. Call me lazy, but I don't.

The most expensive lifestyles I ever get to know was really in the Skandinavian countries, especially Sweden and Norway. Some everyday things were about 10 times more expensive than in Germany. If you ever travel there, it's cheaper to take the whole catering with you. compared to this, Switzerland isn't much different from Germany.

 

[Iceprincess12]

only, it is a negative ROI

That isn't really a rebuttal but I am going back to my popcorn and wondering how any of this is related to Greece.

 

[BotanyBoy]

yes, GM, AIG, Fanni Mae all need to be terminated as well as their employees. perfect example as to how American's fucked over America

Make sure and leave out the defense contractors!!! Without them and their uber inflated gubbmint contracts for shit we don't need and will never use means the better part of all republicans would be FUCKING HOMELESS.

LOL

no body will ever say that roads and education are a bad thing.

Except most republicans.....because socialism is evil!!

truly successful people will say that people need to pay for their own education past the age of 18.

Not a single CEO of any of the companies you listed believes that and even the defense contractors buy that....they know damn well they wouldn't have fuck all if there weren't all these publicly educated engineers and whatevers they employ. Certainly not at the prices they are now.

It's a subsidy.....a labor force training subsidy....engineers only cost 130k a year because socialist state universities crank out thousands of them. And we are all better for it, yay government welfare!!!

government is never the solution. government is always the problem.

Then why can't you name a single no/low government nation that doesn't totally suck?

Because youz full of shit that's why...

against, what you people fail to realize is that companies are successful despite what government does. Government adds nor offers any help to business.

They have given my company hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax exemptions, equipment, funding/aid/drought relief .........along with millions of other businesses. It's the only reason your pistachios don't cost 88.46$ an oz....hazelnuts over 100.....avocados 73/lb.....

yea....the only reason 80% of America isn't fucking STARVING ....because government takes rich peoples money and gives it to farmers to produce supa cheap food for masses of peasants. If you took the socialism out of big agriculture? It would DESTROY the country...mother fuckers starve to death by the MILLIONS this winter and in 12 months LA would look like Somalia.

 

[PoppingTom]

ah yes, we can't fire the low lifes that add no value to the company.

GM can and will fire bad workers. Has nothing to do with taking money from the government.

What you preferred was the loss of over 200 000 jobs. For what?