What is feminism?

[JMohegan]

Of course not but I'm not sure what your original point was now? What does my preference in males have to do with the responses I described? Just curious.

BTW, "alpha", to me, is a very intangible "vibe" that is not necessarily connected to financial wealth, social status and/or physical size.

Thanks for the link, will read later!

On the one hand, you laugh at guys who feel threatened by your macho stunt career and martial arts skills. On the other hand, you've got a strong sexual preference for alphas. Have I got that right?

My point is that the guys you mock know, implicitly, about your sexual preference. Which is why they feel threatened! They're worried that they won't be alpha enough for you, per your own standards.

So the THREAT THREAT THREAT you laughed at above is actually legitimate, and very real. Lying about his abilities is clearly lame, but worrying that he'll be man enough for you is clearly not.

A big, square-jawed, smart, witty, educated and successful sales rep, who knows his way around a martial arts classroom, oozes alpha because he is big, square-jawed, smart, witty, educated, successful, and comfortable with his own body. That's where his confidence comes from. But a guy who has nothing that makes him feel alpha is a guy who won't give off that vibe.

 

[Keroin]

On the one hand, you laugh at guys who feel threatened by your macho stunt career and martial arts skills. On the other hand, you've got a strong sexual preference for alphas. Have I got that right?

My point is that the guys you mock know, implicitly, about your sexual preference. Which is why they feel threatened! They're worried that they won't be alpha enough for you, per your own standards.

So the THREAT THREAT THREAT you laughed at above is actually legitimate, and very real. Lying about his abilities is clearly lame, but worrying that he'll be man enough for you is clearly not.

A big, square-jawed, smart, witty, educated and successful sales rep, who knows his way around a martial arts classroom, oozes alpha because he is big, square-jawed, smart, witty, educated, successful, and comfortable with his own body. That's where his confidence comes from. But a guy who has nothing that makes him feel alpha is a guy who won't give off that vibe.

In the moment, I do not laugh, not even close. In the moment I listen politely, ask questions, comment, etc. Basically, I do my best to assure the fellow that I am not a threat and that he has no need to posture for me.

Not to mention, that when I would tell someone what I did for a living, I was not jumping up and down and beating my chest. Quite the opposite, I was very demure in my delivery – specifically because I knew what kind of reaction to expect. Because I choose to be with men that are confident, intelligent and physically fit does not mean I am denigrating those who aren’t. No different than your choice of females would be a statement that those you are not attracted too are less than desirable.

I understand what you are trying to say but I don’t particularly agree with it. You are painting me as a callous steroid-seeker who gets her kicks out of ridiculing men who don’t measure up to my standards – or at least that is how it feels to me – and that is not how I believe I act.

 

[bridgeburner]

JMo,

comfortable with his own body


THIS is perhaps the root of what alpha means to me. A person who is comfortable and confident in his or her own identity --- whatever that might be. This person isn't begging or bargaining for my attention or affection.

This is why the weedy, balding, cross-dressing comic-book salesman won out over the 6'2, blond/blue football Adonis back in the day. Alpha is an invisible vibe that can transcend more identifiable visual cues.

 

[JMohegan]

In the moment, I do not laugh, not even close. In the moment I listen politely, ask questions, comment, etc. Basically, I do my best to assure the fellow that I am not a threat and that he has no need to posture for me.

Not to mention, that when I would tell someone what I did for a living, I was not jumping up and down and beating my chest. Quite the opposite, I was very demure in my delivery – specifically because I knew what kind of reaction to expect. Because I choose to be with men that are confident, intelligent and physically fit does not mean I am denigrating those who aren’t. No different than your choice of females would be a statement that those you are not attracted too are less than desirable.

I understand what you are trying to say but I don’t particularly agree with it. You are painting me as a callous steroid-seeker who gets her kicks out of ridiculing men who don’t measure up to my standards – or at least that is how it feels to me – and that is not how I believe I act.

I did not state, nor did I mean to imply, that you laugh in their faces or mock them in the moment. I was referring to the mocking in this thread.

And I don't think you're a callous steroid-seeker. Nothing wrong with a sexual preference for an alpha male.

 

[JMohegan]

JMo,

comfortable with his own body


THIS is perhaps the root of what alpha means to me. A person who is comfortable and confident in his or her own identity --- whatever that might be. This person isn't begging or bargaining for my attention or affection.

This is why the weedy, balding, cross-dressing comic-book salesman won out over the 6'2, blond/blue football Adonis back in the day. Alpha is an invisible vibe that can transcend more identifiable visual cues.

Comfortable & confident in one's own identity is outrageously sexy, no question. I feel the same way about women.

I tend to think of an alpha as someone on top. In a given peer group, dominant in terms of physics, football, finance, social, chef, or comic-book collecting skills.

 

[rida]

Me too. I got in touch with him about a month ago and he said he'd left all this stuff behind and wouldn't be coming back. Whatever that means.

Is he doing well?

He got married!
And seems to be very happy with his life as it is at the moment.
(Sorry, don't know more. I just dropped him a line a while ago to see how he was doing).

*snip*
The other issue, and perhaps I am splitting hairs, is that many people have a dichotomy between what their genitals want and what they want to actually cohabit with. While the bad boy in the video may get her nethers damp, she can't stand to live with his erratic behaviour, and vice versa.

There was a show I saw on TV once that was showing that women taste in men changes depending on the part of the cycle there are on. Close to ovulation they go for the Macho type, the one that represent strong fighting genes, while during the rest of the time, they tend to prefer men that represent a more stable and nurturing type.

I'm sure the above described response is often overridden by culturally and behaviorally learned responses.

 

[Homburg]

He got married!
And seems to be very happy with his life as it is at the moment.
(Sorry, don't know more. I just dropped him a line a while ago to see how he was doing).

That's awesome! Hooray for him!

Still miss him though

There was a show I saw on TV once that was showing that women taste in men changes depending on the part of the cycle there are on. Close to ovulation they go for the Macho type, the one that represent strong fighting genes, while during the rest of the time, they tend to prefer men that represent a more stable and nurturing type.

I'm sure the above described response is often overridden by culturally and behaviorally learned responses.

Makes sense, actually. I would imagine that proximity to ovulation would probably be a subtle driving factor in wanting to go out.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In my experience, an ovulating woman wants to be pounded through the mattress, and insemination is a side effect. To that end, she will choose the type of person she believes most able to do that. Might be a Macho type, if that's what her culture PLUS her experience has inculcated in her. Might be a woman with a strapon.

For me, in my chasing-boys days, it was effeminate-seeming, long haired, hippy boys and surfers-- many of whom were bisexual. Macho was never very appetizing to me. (and those same boys were my choice on other days of the month, too. That program seems to think that 1. no macho dude can also be nurturing and friendlike, and 2. women think Sylvester Stallone is good genetic material.)

For the past twenty years or so-- ovulating dykes have been known to give me a call.

 

[richard_daily]

In my experience, an ovulating woman wants to be pounded through the mattress, and insemination is a side effect. To that end, she will choose the type of person she believes most able to do that. Might be a Macho type, if that's what her culture PLUS her experience has inculcated in her. Might be a woman with a strapon.

For me, in my chasing-boys days, it was effeminate-seeming, long haired, hippy boys and surfers-- many of whom were bisexual. Macho was never very appetizing to me. (and those same boys were my choice on other days of the month, too. That program seems to think that 1. no macho dude can also be nurturing and friendlike, and 2. women think Sylvester Stallone is good genetic material.)

For the past twenty years or so-- ovulating dykes have been known to give me a call.

I tend to be attracted to women who are typically tom-boyish in demeanor (although not necessarily looks); the woman who takes care of herself and is self-sufficient, and who has a strong sense of self. I think it speaks of larger societal issues that we as a culture expect a woman to be provided for and a man to be that provider. I don't think that works for many woman, and I don't think it works for a good number of men out there either. It's a deeply flawed cultural system.

I think one of the most threatening things to some men about feminism is that it will teach women that they don't or won't "need" men. I have never felt that way, since I feel that I have always been prone to listening to my partners, and being responsive to their needs. I just seek out partners whose needs correspond with my desires.

 

[satindesire]

For the past twenty years or so-- ovulating dykes have been known to give me a call.

*chuckle!*

I'd give you a call whether I was ovulating or not.



God damn pregnancy hormones. :/

 

[JMohegan]

I think one of the most threatening things to some men about feminism is that it will teach women that they don't or won't "need" men.

Don't those men have sisters, cousins, nieces, mothers, daughters, aunts, female friends?

That's the part I don't get. Why can't they see that the best way to protect and provide for all those females is to give them the power to protect and provide for themselves?

 

[richard_daily]

Don't those men have sisters, cousins, nieces, mothers, daughters, aunts, female friends?

That's the part I don't get. Why can't they see that the best way to protect and provide for all those females is to give them the power to protect and provide for themselves?

I never claimed to understand it...

 

[Stella_Omega]

*chuckle!*

I'd give you a call whether I was ovulating or not.



God damn pregnancy hormones. :/

It would be a lot of fun to experience pregnancy hormones again-- from the outside.

 

[satindesire]

It would be a lot of fun to experience pregnancy hormones again-- from the outside.

Mister said I seem to enjoy sex more when I'm pregnant, even though most positions are difficult for me due to the fact that I carry low and shallow. I didn't really notice til he said something, but I do seem to feel more...connected? Feminine? I don't really know how to explain it, but sex carries a sort of new importance to me when I'm pregnant.

Don't mind me, I'm apparently crazy lately. :/

 

[Keroin]

2. women think Sylvester Stallone is good genetic material.

*barfs*

 

[Keroin]

I did not state, nor did I mean to imply, that you laugh in their faces or mock them in the moment. I was referring to the mocking in this thread.

And I don't think you're a callous steroid-seeker. Nothing wrong with a sexual preference for an alpha male.

Fair enough.

I posted in the context of the discussion prompted by the question about why women don't make the first (overt) sexual moves, and the idea that men don't, generally, respond well to any kind of female "aggressiveness". My point being that it takes very little for a woman to be perceived as aggressive, or as a threat.

And back to the issue of feminism, it's interesting that I should have to, as a woman, pussy foot around my career/hobby choice because it is too "manly" and thus threatening. It reminds me of that whole, "don't appear too smart" attitude that used to exist, whereby an intelligent woman was viewed as a threat to males.

What about a man who chooses a traditionally female career? Should he have to be careful about the feelings of women when he tells them what he does for a living?

I mean, I'm sorry if the choices I made in my life make men feel less than manly but I have the right to choose a career/hobby/sport that fulfills me, do I not?

 

[ivantheterrible]

I think its gone too far.

Look at tv comedy shows, how many of the jokes poke fun at men? Even in adverts, men are portrayed as thick/hopeless. We seem to glorify women at the expense of belittling men.

It isn't equal. Its bordering on positive discrimination.

i have to agree. and it has caused a lot of divorces where the man gets royally screwed.

 

[BiBunny]

It reminds me of that whole, "don't appear too smart" attitude that still exists, whereby an intelligent woman was viewed as a threat to males.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Keroin]

Fixed that for you.

Yes, I suppose it does in various locales.

 

[Stella_Omega]

,snip>
What about a man who chooses a traditionally female career? Should he have to be careful about the feelings of women when he tells them what he does for a living?

I mean, I'm sorry if the choices I made in my life make men feel less than manly but I have the right to choose a career/hobby/sport that fulfills me, do I not?

Well, Chefing is a manly job. For women in general, of course, it's just cooking. Likewise dressmaking, which becomes couture and is a field somewhat dominated by men...

I think its gone too far.

Look at tv comedy shows, how many of the jokes poke fun at men? Even in adverts, men are portrayed as thick/hopeless. We seem to glorify women at the expense of belittling men.

It isn't equal. Its bordering on positive discrimination.

I admit, I have not watched tv comedy in two decades and counting-- except for Kids In The Hall on DVD.

So-- how many of the jokes DO belittle men? which shows?

And is there any other popular form of tv entertainment-- science fiction, or cop shows, or slice of life, or music-- in which the women are usually glorified at the expense of men?

How about one show?

Nope baby-- don't you forget who owns the broadcasting companies, and not many of those people have a Ms in front of their names. Women can make fun of men on TV because the men in charge don't take women seriously.

 

[JMohegan]

Fair enough.

I posted in the context of the discussion prompted by the question about why women don't make the first (overt) sexual moves, and the idea that men don't, generally, respond well to any kind of female "aggressiveness". My point being that it takes very little for a woman to be perceived as aggressive, or as a threat.

And back to the issue of feminism, it's interesting that I should have to, as a woman, pussy foot around my career/hobby choice because it is too "manly" and thus threatening. It reminds me of that whole, "don't appear too smart" attitude that used to exist, whereby an intelligent woman was viewed as a threat to males.

What about a man who chooses a traditionally female career? Should he have to be careful about the feelings of women when he tells them what he does for a living?

I mean, I'm sorry if the choices I made in my life make men feel less than manly but I have the right to choose a career/hobby/sport that fulfills me, do I not?

Of course you have that right. No one here has suggested you don't.

The only point I'm making, Keroin, is that guys face the very same kind of pressure you do, but in reverse. Pressure to meet expectations perceived to be held by a majority of the opposite sex. Expectations which, if failed to be met, make them far less likely to get fucked. Pressures perpetuated by the personal sexual preferences of nearly all of us - including me, and including you.

You say "it takes very little for a woman to be perceived as aggressive," and that's true. But it's also true that it takes very little for a man to be perceived as a wuss.

You may roll your eyes and continue the men-are-so-lame discussion, or keep building strawmen and getting defensive, but the fact of the matter is that the pressures inherent in our gender-stereotyped world won't start easing up until the pressures on both sides are addressed. They really are the flip side of each other.

 

[Keroin]

Of course you have that right. No one here has suggested you don't.

The only point I'm making, Keroin, is that guys face the very same kind of pressure you do, but in reverse. Pressure to meet expectations perceived to be held by a majority of the opposite sex. Expectations which, if failed to be met, make them far less likely to get fucked. Pressures perpetuated by the personal sexual preferences of nearly all of us - including me, and including you.

You say "it takes very little for a woman to be perceived as aggressive," and that's true. But it's also true that it takes very little for a man to be perceived as a wuss.

You may roll your eyes and continue the men-are-so-lame discussion, or keep building strawmen and getting defensive, but the fact of the matter is that the pressures inherent in our gender-stereotyped world won't start easing up until the pressures on both sides are addressed. They really are the flip side of each other.

You are misreading me. I do not feel defensive. At all. And I'm not disagreeing with you.

I thought those were valid and interesting questions.

 

[JMohegan]

You are misreading me. I do not feel defensive. At all. And I'm not disagreeing with you.

I thought those were valid and interesting questions.

My apologies.

You're right; they are valid questions.

 

[Keroin]

My apologies.

You're right; they are valid questions.

No apology necessary. It is hard to convey emotions in print sometimes.

 

[richard_daily]

i have to agree. and it has caused a lot of divorces where the man gets royally screwed.

Feminism has caused a lot of divorces, huh?