What We Owe The Readers

[intim8]

I'm getting a sense here that the appalling rudeness of that small fraction of readers who are both entitled and loud about it imight be fostering an "us vs them" approach to readers. That would be a cryin' shame.

 

[Comshaw]

I read an interesting article today about what authors owe readers and it made me think of lit.

The author puts forward that, in general, in exchange for the readers time, authors "owe" the readers five things:

1. A good "Character" that the readers can follow, interesting, distinct and developed.

2. A good "Voice" for the narrator of the story, that supports the tale and is consistent fpr the reader.

3. A good "World" for the story, again, consistent and interesting for the reader.

4. A good "Problem" for the character to resolve. The more interesting the better for the reader.

5. A good "Event" for the character to participate in and the reader to come along through.

So, here's my question. I know that here, in the AH, opinions vary widely on what we, as authors, owe readers - from "not a damn thing" to "everything".

At the macro-level though, outside of a specific story, do you agree that there are things that you, as an author, owe those readers who take the time to enjoy your stories, maybe even follow you, interact with you, or give you votes?

I think mayhaps you are using the wrong word. Because I offer my stories free, I don't believe I "owe" the reader anything. If I were trying to sell them, that's another story.

Because my stories are free I see it as an exchange, I get to write them (which I think most here being authors will admit is a pleasure to do) and they get to read a story for nothing.

Now if you were to ask me what I think I should offer the readers, I'd pretty much agree with your list. I want them to be enjoyed. To do that they must be well-constructed to grab and hold the reader's interest. The list you provided is a solid start to a well-constructed story.

Comshaw

 

[AchtungNight]

It’s not about debt and payment for me. I think up a good story with the five things the OP mentioned, and if I enjoy it, I post it here and on AO3 for others to enjoy. Other readers- I’m a reader too, like all authors. This isn’t about money- I have another job for that necessity. Still, good feedback is nice from time to time.

 

[Rob_Royale]

That's a good list. And as an artist that's the product I want to put out. But, I'm doing it for myself as a matter of pride.

 

[NotWise]

I don't mind being the minority voice. I think we owe the readers an effort. That's it. Just an effort. It's the same thing we owe the site. We owe it to the readers for giving the story a chance. We owe it to the site for giving us an opportunity.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

I owe the reader exactly what I need to give to get what I want from them (loads of dick pics and flap snaps)

 

[Cagivagurl]

You only owe somebody something when you've entered into a contract or agreement...
Borrow money, you are indebted. Post something for free.... There is no contract... There is no debt.
You post a story here and readers can choose to read or pass.
The only contract is internal. We all have ego's regardless of whether we admit it.
We have pride in our creations.
We create stories from nothing. Produce characters which intrigue readers enough to keep reading... We do it for fun, not payment.
Even if you are using this web site as an opportunity to grow as a writer... You owe them nothing...
Your creations are yours, which you have freely shared.

Cagivagurl

 

[KeithD]

You only owe somebody something when you've entered into a contract or agreement...

Oh, I don't agree with that. When you get on a bus with other passengers, just being a human being gives you obligations to them. You owe them not to shoot the driver as you approach a cliff. We don't live in chaos. We are surrounded 7/24/365 with such "owes" to others if we don't want to be popped off ourselves seconds after exiting our front doors.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don't view it as a matter of "owe". I usually aim to write stories with those things, but it comes from some mix of "that's the kind of story I want to write" and "I like writing stories that affect people", not "it's my duty to those readers".

 

[Cagivagurl]

Oh, I don't agree with that. When you get on a bus with other passengers, just being a human being gives you obligations to them. You owe them not to shoot the driver as you approach a cliff. We don't live in chaos. We are surrounded 7/24/365 with such "owes" to others if we don't want to be popped off ourselves seconds after exiting our front doors.

An obligation to live with other people and abide by their rules. Is a contract of sorts.
To live in that society, you learn the rules, and either accept them, or rally and fight against them.
Acceptance of the rules is an unwritten contract. (I will be a good citizen)....
I think that's accepted...
To owe somebody something is another contract. Whether it be borrowing something or some other form of entering into a contract...
If I write a story, and post it with no expectation of payment. The writer owes the reader nothing...
It was posted for free.... Read it or don't your choice....
Just my thoughts.

Cagivagurl

 

[pink_silk_glove]

As common courtesy, do you owe someone who holds a door for you (for free) a thank you, or at least a nod of acknowledgement? That's all I'm talking about here.

I knew that the courtesy argument would come up.

If you expect courtesy in return for your gift, then you are confusing a gift with a contract. A gift has no strings attached. If are attaching the string of courtesy to your work, then it is no longer a gift, it is a contract. There's nothing wrong with that, but one would be wise to know the difference.

 

[KeithD]

An obligation to live with other people and abide by their rules. Is a contract of sorts.
To live in that society, you learn the rules, and either accept them, or rally and fight against them.
Acceptance of the rules is an unwritten contract. (I will be a good citizen)....
I think that's accepted...
To owe somebody something is another contract. Whether it be borrowing something or some other form of entering into a contract...
If I write a story, and post it with no expectation of payment. The writer owes the reader nothing...
It was posted for free.... Read it or don't your choice....
Just my thoughts.

Cagivagurl

A contract is something one willfully signs. It's not something one comes obligated with.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

A contract is something one willfully signs. It's not something one comes obligated with.

You contradict yourself here ... and you agree with Cagiva.

Oh, I don't agree with that. When you get on a bus with other passengers, just being a human being gives you obligations to them. You owe them not to shoot the driver as you approach a cliff. We don't live in chaos. We are surrounded 7/24/365 with such "owes" to others if we don't want to be popped off ourselves seconds after exiting our front doors.

An obligation to live with other people and abide by their rules. Is a contract of sorts.
To live in that society, you learn the rules, and either accept them, or rally and fight against them.
Acceptance of the rules is an unwritten contract. (I will be a good citizen)....

Without getting into the semantics of verbal and handshake contracts ... are we obligated or not?

The answer is: you don't owe the other passengers anything. You may unilaterally choose to be so courteous, or not. Most of us do.

When you offer a story on a free website, the readership owes you nothing. Especially if you have not solicited any sort of contract.

 

[Cagivagurl]

No, I disagree....
A contract is as you say supposedly wilfully signed. A lot of mortgage holders might say they signed unwilfully...
Still once signed, you are legally or ethically indebted...Being born into a society doesn't require a signature, but it does hold an obligation to live by the rules laid down. An unwritten contract... An agreement.
Selling or buying comes with expectations on both parties... Again, an unwritten contract.
Giving something away comes with no contract. I left it laing on the roadside. Take it or leave it. I don't care...
No contract, no obligation

Cagivagurl

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Being born into a society doesn't require a signature, but it does hold an obligation to live by the rules laid down

No it doesn't. Plenty of people disregard societies rules multiple times a day. The worst 'offenders' are our politicians and large corporations, you know the folks who actually make the rules?

 

[Cagivagurl]

No it doesn't. Plenty of people disregard societies rules multiple times a day. The worst 'offenders' are our politicians and large corporations, you know the folks who actually make the rules?

Agreed....

 

[KeithD]

You contradict yourself here ... and you agree with Cagiva.

I don't see that. I was contradicting the notion that contracts happen without willful agreement.

But all of this going in toward nothing I care about, so I'll bow out.

 

[KeithD]

No, I disagree....
A contract is as you say supposedly wilfully signed. A lot of mortgage holders might say they signed unwilfully...
l

Oh, this is ridiculous. You're just being silly. No one is holding a gun to someone's head at a mortgage signing. Clicking out. I don't have time to give to this nonsense.

 

[OffNSFW]

The first and foremost purpose of art is as an expressive outlet for the artist. Sure, it may confer some benefit to its audience, but that's not why it came into existence.

If you want writing that tries to second-guess what you want, go see a Marvel. The rest of us have shit to work through.

 

[NotWise]

No obligations, but this whole site works only if three "parties" do their part: Laurel and Manu need to provide a platform for readers and publishing system for writers; readers need to provide income to Laurel and Manu and strokes in some form to the writers; writers need to provide Laurel and Manu with material they can present and give the readers something they find entertaining.

If the parties don't fulfill their roles, then it all stops working. In that context we could say that writers owe the readers an entertainment, but who knows what that is? Certainly the readers don't agree with each other on what it is. The best we can uphold our part of the deal is make an effort; put some work into it, care about what we produce.

 

[Priscilla_June]

Them readers are privileged

 

[intim8]

Now we're talking about contracts?! Jesus, when did the word "owe" become so loaded?

I guess the OP owes you all an apology... no, wait, he forgot to sign off on that provision.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Oh, this is ridiculous. You're just being silly. No one is holding a gun to someone's head at a mortgage signing. Clicking out. I don't have time to give to this nonsense.

Don't understand humour huh???
It was perhaps a weak attempt, but that was a joke.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Now we're talking about contracts?! Jesus, when did the word "owe" become so loaded?

It's quite simple. Allow me to explain.

See, the word contract itself causes a distraction because most people immediately think of a signed piece of paper. Even legal contracts can be verbal or even just inferred. If there's a sign on the bus that says "fare 2 dollars" and I step on and drop two dollars in the slot, then I have accepted the contract, non-written and non-verbally.

But what really is a contract? When two people agree to exchange. That is a contract. You need an exchange and you need an agreement on that exchange. If I read and understand the sign, and for whatever reason I do not agree to the terms, I can step on without paying and take my chances with the driver/fare police. But there is no contract since I and the bus company did not agree to the terms.

So what does this mean for lit? Well, people write stories and post them on a free website (lit). Then they expect things like positive feedback or politeness or common courtesy in exchange for the story. In our bus example above, the bus company had to solicit the contract - that is that they had to make it known that their offer was in exchange for something. That's why they put the fare sign on the door. One cannot offer something and then after it is consumed ask for compensation. If the consumer knew that something was expected in return they may very well have not used the service. Therefore a contract must be solicited. We give you a ride, you give us 2 dollars.

When people submit stories to lit to be read for free, they do not solicit anything in return. I've many times seen people put disclaimers pleading not to be downvoted, but I have never seen an unequivocal solicitation for a requirement of exchange for reading the story. So without that solicitation, there is no contract, and there can be no expectation of anything in return, be it feedback, politeness, common courtesy, pat on the back, thumbs up nor anything else.

Writers often put enormous amounts of care and effort into their stories and then we put them out there for free. Then we get heavy criticism, sometimes several detailed paragraphs of all the negative aspects of our work, and we get upset. Well the critic took the time to read your work and comment - for free! There are people in this world who pay their mortgages reading, critiquing and editing work. It's work. Just as the writer owes the reader nothing, the critic owes the writer nothing. Yet we complain when we get criticized. The critics are doing us favors for free!

"I published my story for free. I don't expect anything in return. All I want is some common courtesy."

Stop right there. "I don't expect anything in return. All I want is ..." You don't expect anything, yet you expect something. You see? If this is you, you are looking for a contract yet you have not solicited one. It's all on you.

Gift - giving something and expecting absolutely nothing in return, not even a thank you.

Contract - giving something and expecting something in return, no matter how small, a string attached.

Give your granddaughter 10 dollars: "Here you go sweetie, enjoy!" ~ (no strings attached = gift)

Give your granddaughter 10 dollars: "Here you go sweetie, but don't spend it on candy." ~ (conditional string attached = contract)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with contracts. Just be wise to know the difference between gifts and contracts in everything you do in life.

 

[lustychimera]

Now we're talking about contracts?! Jesus, when did the word "owe" become so loaded?

I guess the OP owes you all an apology... no, wait, he forgot to sign off on that provision.

It's what happens when the same word has many meanings. Owe can be an attitude or a debt--that read to me as where a lot of the disagreement was from. OP probably should have specified better, but the "exchange of time" makes it sound like they meant a debt.

If a readers pays me, that's incredibly valuable--and I don't mean just because I can buy shit. That's their own time. They exchanged a fraction of their life--their working hours--to purchase a fraction of mine. I'm selling them a promise that my time is as good as theirs. (which is also why I don't sell shit )

If I just drop my story on the internet, there's no agreement there. I've already given them a fraction of my time. There's no exchange. The only value that my time has is the value that others sink into it. I'm not placing a value on it myself. They're the ones valuating it.

Saying I "owe" them after that is like saying I owe them for trying to sell my shit back to me at the price they set.