When is Cyber-ing Cheating, thoughts? opinions?

[babydoll2u]

Sorry, too big to crawl under rock (even though some may feel that is were I emerged), I will return to my Den (Cave).

tiwolf, I wasn't going to reply to your thread, but a few things that
have been said here, finally prompted me to do so. So here goes....

When I hear (or read) someone say that they are happily married, sex is good, etc etc etc and STILL seek outside fulfillment, whether that be in the fantasy realm of cybering, or in the r/l realm of an affair... I must laugh.
IF the marriage is a happy one and the sex is good, there would be no need to seek any kind of fulfillment elsewhere, so I have to ask... who are you trying to kid? Others? or perhaps yourself?

Let me tell you a little story......
I was married, unhappily, with a 5 yr old son.....
Hubby and I hadn't engaged in even sex, let alone lovemaking, for over 2 years, so yes there were marital problems.

I found Lit, and began posting. I became close to a couple of men and we began cybering. To make a long story very short.....
My husband found out what I was doing, got up in the middle of the night one night, took our small son, and left me. I didn't see nor talk to my son, for almost 2 months. I cried day and night. If not for some very close friends, and one friend in particular, I would have completely fallen apart.

When I talk to married people, who try to tell me that they are "happily married" yet engage in cybering, I tell them... you know what? I'm not trying to tell you what to do , BUT...
this is what happened to me. IF your wife/hubby should discover what you're doing... are YOU prepared to lose just about everything you have? is the fun that important to you? Are your fantasies that important to you? Is the possibility of crushing your SO's heart REALLY that important to you?
ARE YOU WILLING to lose your SO, your kids, their trust and faith in you... for some cyber/fantasy fun?

I have my son back now... but I went through HELL to get him. MORE important than that is the hell that HE went through, caused not only by his fathers' actions, but by mine as well.
So what am I saying?
I guess what my rambling here is really saying is this.... you have a choice

#1.. either quit cybering or
#2.. become very adept at lying, deceiving, cheating your SO out of time spent together, in order to persue your fantasies and spend time with your "other woman".

in choosing #2, as you obviously have....
realize this.......... she WILL find out. They always do, sooner or later
Mine did. Yours will too. Be prepared to face and accept the consequences.


*edited to say please don't think I'm talking only to You ti...
I'm not... this is for everyone who is in your situation, male or female*

 

[Cathleen]

hey, laugh a little Tiwolf,

I didn't mean to look like a nun chasing you with a cleaver to cut your privates out. No need to crawl under the rock. I am a strong debater in topics most dear to me and yes, this was a "little" tender. No worries, I'm not out to send a notice to your SO, just wanted to warn you a little of possible consequences you might be blinded to. I still think your rationalization were a little lame, but like you said, they are your own. Touche for having the balls to share them.

Come out of the rock and play again as you please. It might be hard for you to believe but I am nice-just ask my SO's ex cybermate.

Cheers

Oh such an image Unfaithful. I'm having flash backs to Sr. Mary Martina whomping me over the head with my latin textbook.... to which I ('smartassly') replied "Sr. I don't think that will make the stuff go into my head any faster." The poor woman.... and I still cannot conjugate a verb to save my life.

 

[babydoll2u]

No need to hibernate tiwolf, it's just a discussion - a good one at that.

I thought your views about the 'old days' when people would view porn to arouse themselves was interesting, but not germain to this discussion. There is no interaction between two feeling, thinking human beings in that example. When we interact in a manner that is reserved for our SO with another then the stakes change. Then the two in the committed relationship need to agree upon acceptable behaviors for themselves.

The topic of children in this discussion ... well, it should be in this discussion, in my opinion. However, if a parent's behavior causes severe stress in the homelife, then it is a major problem as far as I'm concerned. Also, I don't think the adult topic of sexuality should be a topic of discussion unless it is age-appropriate. Children need to be children, they also view their parents as the end all and be all, it behooves us to behave in ways that allow the child to grow, emotionally and physically in a healthy manner.

I could not agree with these two points more, Cate... thank you for reiterating what I was trying to say

 

[tiwolf]

Back in the Habit

Well let's see Sister Mary Margaret MeatCleaver, I think I had in the 7th or was that 6th grade?

 

[DLL]

tiwolf, I wasn't going to reply to your thread, but a few things that
have been said here, finally prompted me to do so. So here goes....

When I hear (or read) someone say that they are happily married, sex is good, etc etc etc and STILL seek outside fulfillment, whether that be in the fantasy realm of cybering, or in the r/l realm of an affair... I must laugh.
IF the marriage is a happy one and the sex is good, there would be no need to seek any kind of fulfillment elsewhere, so I have to ask... who are you trying to kid? Others? or perhaps yourself?

Let me tell you a little story......
I was married, unhappily, with a 5 yr old son.....
Hubby and I hadn't engaged in even sex, let alone lovemaking, for over 2 years, so yes there were marital problems.

I found Lit, and began posting. I became close to a couple of men and we began cybering. To make a long story very short.....
My husband found out what I was doing, got up in the middle of the night one night, took our small son, and left me. I didn't see nor talk to my son, for almost 2 months. I cried day and night. If not for some very close friends, and one friend in particular, I would have completely fallen apart.

When I talk to married people, who try to tell me that they are "happily married" yet engage in cybering, I tell them... you know what? I'm not trying to tell you what to do , BUT...
this is what happened to me. IF your wife/hubby should discover what you're doing... are YOU prepared to lose just about everything you have? is the fun that important to you? Are your fantasies that important to you? Is the possibility of crushing your SO's heart REALLY that important to you?
ARE YOU WILLING to lose your SO, your kids, their trust and faith in you... for some cyber/fantasy fun?

I have my son back now... but I went through HELL to get him. MORE important than that is the hell that HE went through, caused not only by his fathers' actions, but by mine as well.
So what am I saying?
I guess what my rambling here is really saying is this.... you have a choice

#1.. either quit cybering or
#2.. become very adept at lying, deceiving, cheating your SO out of time spent together, in order to persue your fantasies and spend time with your "other woman".

in choosing #2, as you obviously have....
realize this.......... she WILL find out. They always do, sooner or later
Mine did. Yours will too. Be prepared to face and accept the consequences.


*edited to say please don't think I'm talking only to You ti...
I'm not... this is for everyone who is in your situation, male or female*

heres my 2 cents
Online affairs differ from other affairs in that they may not involve a physical component, but the emotional attachment is still there. ...and they develop because of the dual attraction of attention and anonymity. Someone who has been ignored by a spouse (or at least perceives that he or she is ignored) suddenly becomes the center of attention in a chat room or a one-on-one e-mail exchange. A woman finds it exciting, even intoxicating, that all these men want to talk to her. And they are eager to hear what she says and needs.

Anonymity feeds this intoxication because the person on the other end of this cyberaffair is unknown.(Its that last tango in Paris fantasy) He or she can be as beautiful and intelligent as your dreams can imagine. The fantasy is fueled by the lack of information and the anonymity. No one in cyberland has bad breath, a bald head, love handles, or a bad temper. The sex is the best you can imagine. Men are warm, sensitive, caring, and communicative. Women are daring, sensual, and erotic.

Is it all too good to be true? Of course it can be. Cyberaffairs are only make-believe. No real person can compete with a dream lover. No marriage can compete with a cyberaffair. But then an online affair can’t really compete with a real relationship that provides true friendship and marital intimacy.

Nevertheless, online affairs are seductive. An Internet addict calls out to a spouse "one more minute" just as an alcoholic justifies "one more drink." Cyberaffairs provide an opportunity to become another person and chat with distant and invisible neighbors in the high-tech limbo of cyberspace. Social and emotional needs are met, flirting is allowed and even encouraged, and an illusion of intimacy feeds the addiction that has caught so many unsuspecting Internet surfers. ....

Even though online affairs may not involve a physical component, the emotional attachment can be just as strong and even overwhelming. And when they end, this strong attachment usually leaves participants in emotional pain.

You get excited about the chance to know a different man (how he thinks and feels). You also feel intimate with your lovers because they can talk about their feelings openly.


Contrary to conventional wisdom, an affair will not help your marriage.
Adultery can destroy a marriage, whether a physical affair or an online affair. ..and thats the bottom line in MHO.

now I will go on to say..on the boards I tend to be a bit goofy and really not get too close to any one I kinda keep people at an arms length...but I have to be honest and say I have crossed that line online and find that I enjoy getting to know people in a more detailed matter I guess I fall in the catagory of married but adding more..I have a wonderful relationship so I am the one that Peggy might be laughing at when she sees me posting...I am not fooling myself..I know this is a dangerous game to be posting here and getting close but its something I enjoy and I guess in a way its why I like to chat more with married men..they are in the same boat..they understand..and thats why I only date married men just kidding... bottom line know what you are getting into and how far you want to push the button with all this stuff...

ok putting on my wonderwoman costume and heading to a chat room now

 

[Stryderthorongil]

Reading with interest.

 

[babydoll2u]

LOL.. you silly woman, I'm not laughing at you

oh great NOW I have that song going through my head....

"Wonder Woman... da da ta da da da... wonder woman....."
gee thanks DLL!

 

[babydoll2u]

Reading with interest.

I bet you are

 

[MrFantasyMan]

These type of discussions or debates, I believe, are not intended to judge, punish or pass judgement on anyone...they are a means of expression and sharing ones views and opinions in the hope of providing an information pool for a better understanding of all the ramifications that may or may not be realized in our own thought process.

It may just be a semantics lesson...it may be an avenue for moral justification...what it isnt is a trial with a judge, jury and verdict. If your in a commited relationship that part is left to the only parties truely involved...each other! It isnt always a right or a wrong but it is something that BOTH parties should be in agreement on (even if they agree to disagree...and yes some of us can do that and not have it be a bone of contention in our relationships).

The original question deals with WHEN...and a definition of the word CHEATING. The when is easy...you need not cross a line in the sand...the when is now. If this discussion is something you are trying to delay or hide from your SO, when becomes the waterloo. It does have a way of catching up to you...good, bad or indifferent and all the rationalizations in the world cant shield you from that. Deal with it now...the snowball rolling downhill has a way of gathering velocity and mass....

Cheating is also an interesting word...it implies some level of deceit...either to yourself or upon someone else (SO). Cheater is rarely a term of eandearment or something you wear proudly. It is a scarlet letter you wear when your trust is no longer a given. Do you know what is right or wrong or do you have to rationalize your actions...hmmmm...and then which one is cheating. IMHO you need to be true to yourself and then to those closest to you. You choose to share yourself with a partner...you should choose to be honest with that person and build on that honesty not tear it down with deceit. Just my opinion...nothing more...nothing less.

 

[babydoll2u]

ti and anyone else... IF I came across as judgemental or harsh... it was NOT intentional. Please understand that. I was merely giving MY opinion as asked for in the original question, and sharing what happened to me.

that's all... nothing more

 

[MrFantasyMan]

ti and anyone else... IF I came across as judgemental or harsh... it was NOT intentional. Please understand that. I was merely giving MY opinion as asked for in the original question, and sharing what happened to me.

that's all... nothing more

Not to worry sweetie... ...you didnt come off as judgemental at all, at least IMHO, you shared an opinion, as we all do, and your personal expierence I thought was enlightening...

 

[unfaithful2005]

I think this has been a great sharing of opinions. Its no surprise that cybering without your SO's knowledge can have negative outcomes and I think people just need to be aware of that before they begin cybering. Be true to yourself and know what is at stake before you gamble. It is fun and exciting, and perhaps even addicting at its extreme, but somewhere in the midst of the excitement, the one left out is getting hurt/disrespected even though he/she doesn't know it yet. I'm sorry Babydoll went through what she did. It cost her plenty. It really involves more than you and your cybermate in the end.

When I discovered my husband was doing this, I was so enraged that I was about to get our marriage annulled. I felt violated as if he just spitted on his wedding ring. I was so shocked with the things he was saying to other women online that I thought I was living with a stranger. I threw him out of the house that night. Seeing how upset and hurt I was, my husband almost crashed his car into a wall. He felt ashamed and awful for letting me down. It was a very emotional time, a very dark one - something I never imagined could happen to us. What brought us back was seeing how truly remorseful he was and me trying to understand why this all began. This isn't something I wish for anyone to go through. My husband could now kick himself for ever cybering behind my back. He had no idea it would come to this. He admits that at the time he never considered what was at stake because he just knew I would never find out.

 

[babydoll2u]

Not to worry sweetie... ...you didnt come off as judgemental at all, at least IMHO, you shared an opinion, as we all do, and your personal expierence I thought was enlightening...

 

[unfaithful2005]

Babydoll, you're a real sweetheat. Thanks for sharing.

 

[babydoll2u]

Babydoll, you're a real sweetheat. Thanks for sharing.

aaww thank you ...

 

[DLL]

Reading with interest.

are you interested???

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Again, the hiding etc is precipitated by moral and cultural upbringing. It can be extreme, like in my case the adage was if it feels good it must be wrong! I hope that you have overcome that attitude in your marriage. If you still feel that way in your relationship w/ your husband, then there is smoethign more serious going on than on-line cheating.

Do we tell our SO's everything about everything or do we hide other things? This is a good point. Of course, there are thoughts, fantasies that all of us hhide. But the more open we can be, the better the marriage. I know I can't share a lot of my fantasies w/ my wife, and that is sad.

I am in agreement that it is less destructive than real life cheating but if your intent from the get go was cheating (and not fantasy exploration), it will certainly help push you down that destructive path! If you see and recognize the road signs signs taking you in that direction, best get off the superslab and reverse course.

My intent is just fantasy exploratoin. But, when the fantasy exploration involvse sharing things w/ another woman that I dont' share w/ my wife, doesn't that start to undermine the relationshiP?

 

[sexyjenn]

I think it is cheating when if you put yourself in their shoes and ask "What if my S/O did this to me" if you feel hurt or betrayed, then it is cheating.

 

[unfaithful2005]

I think it is cheating when if you put yourself in their shoes and ask "What if my S/O did this to me" if you feel hurt or betrayed, then it is cheating.

Hi Sexyjenn,
I'm sure you're not a bit surprised I'm a part of this post. Didn't mean to sound so harsh, but this one was quite close to home. You'll see that I replied the most to this post.

~Unfaithful~

 

[sexyjenn]

Hi Sexyjenn,
I'm sure you're not a bit surprised I'm a part of this post. Didn't mean to sound so harsh, but this one was quite close to home. You'll see that I replied the most to this post.

~Unfaithful~

you didn't sound harsh hun, and even if you did we won't mind we feel for you. what you went through was tough.
hugs unfaithful
stay strong

 

[Azure Dreams]

If you feel you have to keep it hidden, it's cheating.

 

[sitychik]

If you feel you have to keep it hidden, it's cheating.

I'm with you on that one!!!! One should take a long look at their priorities if they are willing to hurt their so, for any reason. No One in a committed relationship should be willing to sacrifice that relationship for any reason.

 

[angelssoftkiss]

I think this has been a great sharing of opinions. Its no surprise that cybering without your SO's knowledge can have negative outcomes and I think people just need to be aware of that before they begin cybering. Be true to yourself and know what is at stake before you gamble. It is fun and exciting, and perhaps even addicting at its extreme, but somewhere in the midst of the excitement, the one left out is getting hurt/disrespected even though he/she doesn't know it yet. I'm sorry Babydoll went through what she did. It cost her plenty. It really involves more than you and your cybermate in the end.

When I discovered my husband was doing this, I was so enraged that I was about to get our marriage annulled. I felt violated as if he just spitted on his wedding ring. I was so shocked with the things he was saying to other women online that I thought I was living with a stranger. I threw him out of the house that night. Seeing how upset and hurt I was, my husband almost crashed his car into a wall. He felt ashamed and awful for letting me down. It was a very emotional time, a very dark one - something I never imagined could happen to us. What brought us back was seeing how truly remorseful he was and me trying to understand why this all began. This isn't something I wish for anyone to go through. My husband could now kick himself for ever cybering behind my back. He had no idea it would come to this. He admits that at the time he never considered what was at stake because he just knew I would never find out.

I feel for you. I have walked in those shoes myself. I happened 10 years ago during a time when we both were new to the internet. We had never brooched the subject of cybersex, I had no clue what it was until I came upon an email. I was crushed and hurt, but after much discussion, we agreed that this was not something that would inhance our relationship. But it did take a long time to get over the hurt and begin to trust him again.

 

[ReBeLBeLLe]

Cheating is cheating no matter how one chooses to color it. There will always be those that hold up one justification after another in an attempt to make it right, but I dare say that when the chips fall, see how far those same justifications go to the person that feels betrayed. There will be nothing that you can say to erase the hurt, the memory will linger, and in most cases fester. You know not whom will be susceptible to the betrayal and if you care...how can you take the chance to crush the one person you profess to love?

To answer this question of cheating I think maybe this needs to be asked....How would you like for your SO to act in the same situation?

 

[babydoll2u]

Cheating is cheating no matter how one chooses to color it. There will always be those that hold up one justification after another in an attempt to make it right, but I dare say that when the chips fall, see how far those same justifications go to the person that feels betrayed. There will be nothing that you can say to erase the hurt, the memory will linger, and in most cases fester. You know not whom will be susceptible to the betrayal and if you care...how can you take the chance to crush the one person you profess to love?

To answer this question of cheating I think maybe this needs to be asked....How would you like for your SO to act in the same situation?

I don't think anyone could say it better.....