Where are all the men?

[satindesire]

Best post in this thread.

Honestly, simply by failing to shove traditional gender roles down everyone's throat, it doesn't mean no one will opt for them anyway. There are always going to be people who think the old fashioned ideals ARE the ideal.

For the rest of us, it simply means not being seen as inferior, deviant, or unworthy of respect or consideration. My husband isn't particularly manly by any standards, but he can keep my computer going, noodle with a car, smell pretty all the time, share my undies AND took care of me during the worst time of my entire life when I wanted to walk away from myself.

I'll take that over any real man.

Welllll, thanks hon. ^_^

Continuing my point...my opinion is this: We should all have a choice whether or not to pursue traditional gender roles. And whether we decide for or against it, none of us should be ridiculed or outcast, made fun of or treated poorly. The freedom to be comfortable in my own skin is one of the beautiful things about living in these days...I can wear jeans, buzz my hair and be a welder if I want, or I can wear skirts, put barettes in my hair, and be a stay at home mom if I want. That's beautiful.

Western civilization isn't going to collapse because of a lack of gender roles, because let's face it...they exist for a reason and they're not going away ANYTIME soon. They're common! I.E. Most women display typical female behavior. Most men display typical male behavior. Whether that's a nature vs. nurture argument is so not the point, the point is that they're there and they're not going to vanish and take down the entire developed world with them. And who honestly cares if some women and men don't display typical male/female behavior, that in no way makes them a bad person or deserving of being outcast and picked on.

Yes, Western society has changed, but change is the only thing that doesn't change. The 'golden era' of the 1950's is not the same as the 1800's....or the 1700's, or the 1600's...blah blah prattle prattle. In the 1950's, women wore skirts that showed their ankles, and Sex Ed was being taught in school. In the 1600's, people were discouraged from BATHING because being naked was considered 'sinful'. Holy crap.

I mean, let's be realistic here, we get more and more open to change the longer this planet exists.

In a hundred years, people will look back at TODAY as "the golden era" because no doubt something else will be the bane of our existence then, and really old people will wonder 'what happened to so-and-so when "insert random thing" was the norm?"

 

[Shankara20]

When I mentioned protest I meant my protests at her stopping. Pressure, protest, one is more assertive.

Sorry I misread your line - I see now that you are saying that it was you who were protesting her saying "no". As I understand it, at times, you would rather pressure past her protest then discuss her concerns.

And I wonder why men on the hunt have a bad reputation.

Also we are not talking about strangers bumping into each other in the dark. These girls where not that innocent, I was not hiding in the dark with bloodshot eyes. We had knowledge about each other, I would have taken into consideration any problems. Our being together was 100% consensual.

Ah yes - stranger danger. Never mind that 90% of people sexually assaulted know the perpetrator - the rapist is almost always someone they know, not some strange in the dark with bloodshot eyes.

And I wonder why men on the hunt have a bad reputation.

If they withhold sex I protest/pressure, wanting some anyway.

And I wonder why men on the hunt have a bad reputation.

And by the way, much of what I told them to open back up, they thought very flattering.

You silver tongued devil you, your prowess must be legendary.

And I wonder why men on the hunt have a bad reputation.


YC - I am sorry if I made this personal, it was not my intention to attack you. Many men have similar patterns. So many do that a tern has developed for such actions.

What does it mean to when we talk about a predator grooming an intended victim?

They take their time in developing a trusting relationship with the intended victim then when they feel the time is right they begin to slowly integrate inappropriate touches and behaviors into the relationship.​

Help me understand how the actions you describe are not predator grooming, please.

And thanks for continuing to return to the discussion.

 

[00Syd]

I'm still confused by the idea that submissive girls of college age are so rare as to be "legendary".

Are you kidding? Who said that? As far as I can tell, submissive college age girls are about as common as houseflies BUT are still, for the most part, treated within the community as though they are some rare flower.

 

[Netzach]

Sorry I misread your line - I see now that you are saying that it was you who were protesting her saying "no". As I understand it, at times, you would rather pressure past her protest then discuss her concerns.

And I wonder why men on the hunt have a bad reputation.



Ah yes - stranger danger. Never mind that 90% of people sexually assaulted know the perpetrator - the rapist is almost always someone they know, not some strange in the dark with bloodshot eyes.

And I wonder why men on the hunt have a bad reputation.




And I wonder why men on the hunt have a bad reputation.




You silver tongued devil you, your prowess must be legendary.

And I wonder why men on the hunt have a bad reputation.


YC - I am sorry if I made this personal, it was not my intention to attack you. Many men have similar patterns. So many do that a tern has developed for such actions.

What does it mean to when we talk about a predator grooming an intended victim?

They take their time in developing a trusting relationship with the intended victim then when they feel the time is right they begin to slowly integrate inappropriate touches and behaviors into the relationship.​

Help me understand how the actions you describe are not predator grooming, please.

And thanks for continuing to return to the discussion.

See, to me it's like - we know the changing legal climate in this country. We know the shifting standards of the legal sands on which we stand.

Actual unambiguous and obvious rape and abuse may incur no outrage at all, but date rape and gray area and he said she said can absolutely ruin a life via a night of bad judgement. I am not popular in feminist circles, in that I don't think it's your FAULT ever, but there are certain things you can do to minimize your risk. Not wearing that skirt in the dark to walk from one end of town to the other is kind of like walking on the sidewalk and not down the double line. In bed, with your pants halfway down is a bad time to re-think anything. Technically you should be able to and have the right to, but in reality it's just not really a good bet. Earth is very morally imperfect and it's where I live.

Forget morals and ethics and stick to the practical reality: my big head tells the small one:

why would you go there? WHY? Why would you possibly throw the best years of your life away for a night of unenthusiastic ass sex?

I like unenthusiastic ass sex quite a lot. Which is why I do pay the time to cultivate a relationship and an understanding. Yeah that does take a lot of freaking time to get right.

Boo to the freaking hoo. Put up or shut up, getting what you want is work.

And I don't have to worry nearly as much about the guy I'm sodomizing with a screwdriver handle going to the law over his second thoughts, but if I did, you bet your ass I'd be covering mine.

 

[00Syd]

Best post in this thread.

Honestly, simply by failing to shove traditional gender roles down everyone's throat, it doesn't mean no one will opt for them anyway. There are always going to be people who think the old fashioned ideals ARE the ideal.

For the rest of us, it simply means not being seen as inferior, deviant, or unworthy of respect or consideration. My husband isn't particularly manly by any standards, but he can keep my computer going, noodle with a car, smell pretty all the time, share my undies AND took care of me during the worst time of my entire life when I wanted to walk away from myself.

I'll take that over any real man.

Welllll, thanks hon. ^_^

Continuing my point...my opinion is this: We should all have a choice whether or not to pursue traditional gender roles. And whether we decide for or against it, none of us should be ridiculed or outcast, made fun of or treated poorly. The freedom to be comfortable in my own skin is one of the beautiful things about living in these days...I can wear jeans, buzz my hair and be a welder if I want, or I can wear skirts, put barettes in my hair, and be a stay at home mom if I want. That's beautiful.

Western civilization isn't going to collapse because of a lack of gender roles, because let's face it...they exist for a reason and they're not going away ANYTIME soon. They're common! I.E. Most women display typical female behavior. Most men display typical male behavior. Whether that's a nature vs. nurture argument is so not the point, the point is that they're there and they're not going to vanish and take down the entire developed world with them. And who honestly cares if some women and men don't display typical male/female behavior, that in no way makes them a bad person or deserving of being outcast and picked on.

Yes, Western society has changed, but change is the only thing that doesn't change. The 'golden era' of the 1950's is not the same as the 1800's....or the 1700's, or the 1600's...blah blah prattle prattle. In the 1950's, women wore skirts that showed their ankles, and Sex Ed was being taught in school. In the 1600's, people were discouraged from BATHING because being naked was considered 'sinful'. Holy crap.

I mean, let's be realistic here, we get more and more open to change the longer this planet exists.

In a hundred years, people will look back at TODAY as "the golden era" because no doubt something else will be the bane of our existence then, and really old people will wonder 'what happened to so-and-so when "insert random thing" was the norm?"

This. All of this. Yes, yes, yes, yes yes.

That's like, that's everything I wanted to say but apparently wasn't articulate enough to say. Good show.

 

[intothewoods]

Hey, I'm just beating on businessmen and not having any babies here.

S'funny - having children has no appeal as well everyone's heard by now - but if I *was* interested the idea of having to co-parent spawn WITH any other human, in collaboration, scares me more than having a roomate. I don't know if I'd even do it with M. It's so --abnormal to me.

This is so, so (there aren't enough so's) true and kind of references angry MWY's point. Parents together can screw up a kid as well. Parents can be married and still be absent or jerks in some other way. And because a couple is together doesn't mean they are coparenting. I know many couples for whom all of the parenting decisions reside with the mother. That's not a judgment. It's just a fact.

My own experience and oh so unsubmissive not a real woman thoughts on the matter...I had a kid and went, wait, so where's my partner in all this? I'm supposed to do this myself? I know many women accept and embrace this division of things, but I did not. And I was pissed. Being pissed was probably unfair, but that's how I felt. I'm still more or less the leader in that operation, but now things are divided.

Well, interestingly enough, I'm now with someone who is all about coparenting. Who has very definitive ideas about the kind of dad he wants to be and it's clear he wants to be involved. Great, right? Well, it is great, but I have to say when we have differing opinions, it's tough to talk about without someone feeling like the other person is criticizing them as a parent or their lack of experience as a parent. In some ways, it's easier to say, it's going to be this way, the end.

 

[Netzach]

This is so, so (there aren't enough so's) true and kind of references angry MWY's point. Parents together can screw up a kid as well. Parents can be married and still be absent or jerks in some other way. And because a couple is together doesn't mean they are coparenting. I know many couples for whom all of the parenting decisions reside with the mother. That's not a judgment. It's just a fact.

My own experience and oh so unsubmissive not a real woman thoughts on the matter...I had a kid and went, wait, so where's my partner in all this? I'm supposed to do this myself? I know many women accept and embrace this division of things, but I did not. And I was pissed. Being pissed was probably unfair, but that's how I felt. I'm still more or less the leader in that operation, but now things are divided.

Well, interestingly enough, I'm now with someone who is all about coparenting. Who has very definitive ideas about the kind of dad he wants to be and it's clear he wants to be involved. Great, right? Well, it is great, but I have to say when we have differing opinions, it's tough to talk about without someone feeling like the other person is criticizing them as a parent or their lack of experience as a parent. In some ways, it's easier to say, it's going to be this way, the end.

I would totally parent like a cat, a cat on steroids. Reason no. 9383473.

 

[Homburg]

Are you kidding? Who said that? As far as I can tell, submissive college age girls are about as common as houseflies BUT are still, for the most part, treated within the community as though they are some rare flower.

YourCaptor said it. I'm boggled too. As I said, I've certainly had no trouble wandering across members of that particular demographic. Hell, I just remembered a few more that I hadn't counted in my earlier headcount. And they were people I played with. My memory must be going...

Part of me wants to provide photographic evidence (I'm still both too lazy, and too busy, to reboot my thread though.)

 

[intothewoods]

I tend to meet the mid twenty-somethings.

 

[00Syd]

YourCaptor said it. I'm boggled too. As I said, I've certainly had no trouble wandering across members of that particular demographic. Hell, I just remembered a few more that I hadn't counted in my earlier headcount. And they were people I played with. My memory must be going...

Part of me wants to provide photographic evidence (I'm still both too lazy, and too busy, to reboot my thread though.)

He just either isn't looking in the right places or his sub-dar is faulty.

And as for you providing photographic evidence, why, please do. That would be a most welcome diversion.

 

[Homburg]

I tend to meet the mid twenty-somethings.

I meet those too. Good fun.

I wish my local munch group would attract some younger members. It's not surprising when MIS is the youngest person at a play party, but it is a bit odd when _I_ am the youngest person there.

--

He just either isn't looking in the right places or his sub-dar is faulty.

And as for you providing photographic evidence, why, please do. That would be a most welcome diversion.

I'm thinking the same thing vis-a-vis sub-dar.

And I don't think I've got anything hosted still. I really need to get off my butt and do that. This would require extracting those photos off of my mostly non-functional PC first. *sigh*

 

[intothewoods]

I meet those too. Good fun.

I wish my local munch group would attract some younger members. It's not surprising when MIS is the youngest person at a play party, but it is a bit odd when _I_ am the youngest person there.

We have a couple of TNG groups here, but I don't have time for another group. And at this point I'm about to age out anyway, not that anyone cares. My group is the whole kit and kaboodle, plus it's not actually limited to bdsm-ers. I like the diversity.

 

[00Syd]

I'm thinking the same thing vis-a-vis sub-dar.

And I don't think I've got anything hosted still. I really need to get off my butt and do that. This would require extracting those photos off of my mostly non-functional PC first. *sigh*

DOOOOOOOOO IT

 

[Homburg]

We have a couple of TNG groups here, but I don't have time for another group. And at this point I'm about to age out anyway, not that anyone cares. My group is the whole kit and kaboodle, plus it's not actually limited to bdsm-ers. I like the diversity.

Yeah, I've aged out of the TNG type groups too. I could get in most of them accompanying MIS, but, wow, that idea makes me feel widgey. I don't particularly want an age-limited group anyway. I just want good diversity, as you said.

 

[00Syd]

Yeah, I've aged out of the TNG type groups too. I could get in most of them accompanying MIS, but, wow, that idea makes me feel widgey. I don't particularly want an age-limited group anyway. I just want good diversity, as you said.

I'm into the diversity (have you guys heard of KinkForAll? As far as diversity and discussion goes, its a great little happening) but its also really nice to have a TNG group to go to, too. I think people, for the most part, age out of TNG groups naturally, and there aren't that many people who really grasp onto it past the age limit. I feel like a lot of people like me who are closer to the extreme young side of the age spectrum enjoy having a place to go to hang out with people who are in the same boat as themselves, but as people get more and more involved and comfortable in the scene, they are more ready to step out of TNG. Yeah. I really think that while TNG is about age, its, for a lot of people, REALLY about scene-experience.

 

[Homburg]

I'm into the diversity (have you guys heard of KinkForAll? As far as diversity and discussion goes, its a great little happening) but its also really nice to have a TNG group to go to, too. I think people, for the most part, age out of TNG groups naturally, and there aren't that many people who really grasp onto it past the age limit. I feel like a lot of people like me who are closer to the extreme young side of the age spectrum enjoy having a place to go to hang out with people who are in the same boat as themselves, but as people get more and more involved and comfortable in the scene, they are more ready to step out of TNG. Yeah. I really think that while TNG is about age, its, for a lot of people, REALLY about scene-experience.

I understand the place for TNG, and agree that it's a good idea. I'm also self-aware enough to note that it is not a good idea for me, even when I was young enough. Were I closer to your age, I would very likely think differently.

 

[ownedsubgal]

He just either isn't looking in the right places or his sub-dar is faulty.

or maybe YC has a stricter definition of "submissive" than most? there is certainly no shortage of college-aged girls into bdsm play, into bottoming, into general "kink," or into submitting within a sexual context. but having been a little young submissive thing in college myself, i can tell you that there weren't too many running around like me. maybe 1, maybe 2 if i really stretch it to include the orthodox islamic girl i knew who submitted to men not due to personal inclination but because it was her idea of appropriate feminine behavior?

everyone doesn't seek out the "i do this because it gets me hot," or "i do this because i choose to and find you so worthy" type of submissive. some, just some now mind you, may be looking for a different kind of a submission and a different kind of submissive, one who submits simply because it is not in them to do otherwise. these submissives are not quite so common, or easy to find.

 

[00Syd]

or maybe YC has a stricter definition of "submissive" than most? there is certainly no shortage of college-aged girls into bdsm play, into bottoming, into general "kink," or into submitting within a sexual context. but having been a little young submissive thing in college myself, i can tell you that there weren't too many running around like me. maybe 1, maybe 2 if i really stretch it to include the orthodox islamic girl i knew who submitted to men not due to personal inclination but because it was her idea of appropriate feminine behavior?

everyone doesn't seek out the "i do this because it gets me hot," or "i do this because i choose to and find you so worthy" type of submissive. some, just some now mind you, may be looking for a different kind of a submission and a different kind of submissive, one who submits simply because it is not in them to do otherwise. these submissives are not quite so common, or easy to find.

Well, I would say that if he's looking for something very much more specific its probably going to be difficult to find in women of all ages, in which case, he REALLY needs to make sure his sub-dar is up to snuff, maybe by settling for some of these other types of submissives a few times. Only for the purposes of giving his sub-dar a little exercise, of course.

 

[DVS]

Welllll, thanks hon. ^_^

Continuing my point...my opinion is this: We should all have a choice whether or not to pursue traditional gender roles. And whether we decide for or against it, none of us should be ridiculed or outcast, made fun of or treated poorly. The freedom to be comfortable in my own skin is one of the beautiful things about living in these days...I can wear jeans, buzz my hair and be a welder if I want, or I can wear skirts, put barettes in my hair, and be a stay at home mom if I want. That's beautiful.

Western civilization isn't going to collapse because of a lack of gender roles, because let's face it...they exist for a reason and they're not going away ANYTIME soon. They're common! I.E. Most women display typical female behavior. Most men display typical male behavior. Whether that's a nature vs. nurture argument is so not the point, the point is that they're there and they're not going to vanish and take down the entire developed world with them. And who honestly cares if some women and men don't display typical male/female behavior, that in no way makes them a bad person or deserving of being outcast and picked on.

Yes, Western society has changed, but change is the only thing that doesn't change. The 'golden era' of the 1950's is not the same as the 1800's....or the 1700's, or the 1600's...blah blah prattle prattle. In the 1950's, women wore skirts that showed their ankles, and Sex Ed was being taught in school. In the 1600's, people were discouraged from BATHING because being naked was considered 'sinful'. Holy crap.

I mean, let's be realistic here, we get more and more open to change the longer this planet exists.

In a hundred years, people will look back at TODAY as "the golden era" because no doubt something else will be the bane of our existence then, and really old people will wonder 'what happened to so-and-so when "insert random thing" was the norm?"

This is a normal thing, really. Like with kids...every generation the kids must be even more different than their parents were, so they can protest. We grew our hair long and smoked pot. The next generation cut their hair into a mohawk and dyed it orange and some smoked crack. The next generation re-introduced tats and piercings and I'm not sure if they had a favorite drug. Maybe their drug was unsafe sex parties.

Whatever it is, the next generation feels a need to out do the last. It's their imprint on the world, their social statement. I used to think the old "Star Trek" series was wrong, when they tried to portray a next generation thing. The music was just a bunch of strange twangs, squawks and grunts and the dress was wild flowing fabrics full of color and a strange flair of style.

The hair styles were totally out there with spikes and waves of Dippity Do kind of jell with day glow colors and such. And, the slang of their generation was impossible to understand, but they could communicate quite well, even with grown ups near by. Any of this sound familiar? It seems the old "Star Trek" wasn't so far off.

I'm wondering what the next generation will come up with to top this one. Has the baggy low hung jeans that show your undershorts gone out, yet? Multiple layers of clothes, that look like you slept in them? The most stylish hairdo looks like you haven't washed it for months...the ultimate bed head look? Music that has a repetitive melody that's drowned out by maximum beat and bottom frequencies that will jar the fillings from your teeth.

What will come next? What will be next generation's statement be? And looking 100 years from now, it will surely be a cycle that returns to more conservative ways somewhere down the road. You can only go so far "out there" before being conservative is cool again. Then, one generation will start the trend again...something that shocks their parents and impresses their peers.

With the world getting smaller and smaller, a new style or trend can wash from country to country in nothing flat. Like the hoo-la-hoop of the 50s, the pet rock of the 70s and the mood ring of the 80s. But, just as fast as they are created, they burn out.

There is no slow progression, like there was before the Internet. Everybody is getting the trends at the same time, so they all burn out at the same time, too. It's a faster world, these days. Electronic devices that are the latest big thing but smaller, faster, making the last big thing a total piece of junk. But, just 6 months ago it was the most expensive, most wanted thing out there.

We're eating ourselves alive. We can't get enough. We're totally creative, but it can't last for ever. What will the next computer game be like? How will the graphics outdo the latest games? What about the phones? What wil the next do dad be?

What about cars? Flex fuel, electric, hydrogen, hybrids galore? I tell you people, we're going too fast. It's all making my head hurt!


But, it's fun.

 

[Netzach]

This is a normal thing, really. Like with kids...every generation the kids must be even more different than their parents were, so they can protest. We grew our hair long and smoked pot. The next generation cut their hair into a mohawk and dyed it orange and some smoked crack. The next generation re-introduced tats and piercings and I'm not sure if they had a favorite drug. Maybe their drug was unsafe sex parties.

Cough Syrup and self righteousness.

 

[satindesire]

Cough Syrup and self righteousness.

I thought it was X.

That shit's bigger than Tom's friend's list now.

 

[00Syd]

I thought it was X.

That shit's bigger than Tom's friend's list now.

HA! How generation Y of you to say.

 

[satindesire]

HA! How generation Y of you to say.

Finally someone got the joke!

Ten points and a brownie for Syd.

 

[Netzach]

I thought it was X.

That shit's bigger than Tom's friend's list now.

I was an emo, not so much with the warehouse parties, but that too, yes.

 

[DVS]

Finally someone got the joke!

Ten points and a brownie for Syd.

I got the joke, but I was busy looking for ibuprofen for my headache.

When I was a kid, our generation was called the lost generation. So, they ran out of descriptive words and now we're down to just letters?