Where do I fit in? Or BiBunny's Proxy thread

[Luna_Wolf72]

It's kinda like am I paranoid or is everyone really out to get me? Is it related to other medical issues or am I just getting whacky? It's so hard to know because all this relates directly to the areas that control my personalilty.

I'll admit it... I'm really scared at how I've been feeling.

Thank you..once again you put it out there, far better than I could. I guess that's why I don't, usually.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Its about those who claim to be a sub but have never submitted in real life and those who think that if you don't do all that is asked of you (like purposely breaking your leg for your PYL because it was what was commanded); the online only subs and the "subbier than thou"s.

I think the originator of this particular euphemism is commenting that alot of the subs on here would go to a munch with a pie wrapped in saran wrap and would just rather "die" than have their bdsm a little messy.

I'm guessing here...

Okay. I've missed all this I guess. I'm not into judging online vs. real life because I've done both and had wonderful experiences with both. I've made good and lasting friends online thanks to some fun online stuff. And I had an LDR that lasted nearly 9 years (with our own little forays into real life during that time.)

I don't really get this saran wrap business but okay... whatever. LOL I'm shallow like that.

 

[BiBunny]

Its about those who claim to be a sub but have never submitted in real life and those who think that if you don't do all that is asked of you (like purposely breaking your leg for your PYL because it was what was commanded); the online only subs and the "subbier than thou"s.

I think the originator of this particular euphemism is commenting that alot of the subs on here would go to a munch with a pie wrapped in saran wrap and would just rather "die" than have their bdsm a little messy.

I'm guessing here...

That has to be the worst guess I've ever heard about that particular term, LOL.

What does saran wrap do? It clings. It's something someone (possibly me) made up to describe those subs who cling so tightly to their dominants that it's like nails on a chalkboard just to listen to them talk about how much Daddy luuuuuuvs them and cherishes them, blah, blah, blah. You know, those of the manipulative top from the bottom and couch it in bullshit terms variety. They're always quick to call "Abuse!" when a dominant does something that they don't agree with.

 

[nh23]

That has to be the worst guess I've ever heard about that particular term, LOL.

What does saran wrap do? It clings. It's something someone (possibly me) made up to describe those subs who cling so tightly to their dominants that it's like nails on a chalkboard just to listen to them talk about how much Daddy luuuuuuvs them and cherishes them, blah, blah, blah. You know, those of the manipulative top from the bottom and couch it in bullshit terms variety. They're always quick to call "Abuse!" when a dominant does something that they don't agree with.

Thank You!

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Combined consecutive posts

Unfortunately I think that the majority would post with a like opinion. The ones like me or (I'm assuming) Bunny, won't out themselves as being a little unsettled in their lives. For me at least, it shows a vulnerablity that I'd prefer not show.

But I admit to being out of synch and ill-fitted in a lot of ways to the major waves that seem to roll over.

=========

I should've started a poll instead. LOL

Like I said, the majority would and have posted (and I'm sure in all sincerity) that they don't care to fit in. They're happy just as they are.

No one (or at least very few) will admit to feeling like I do.

My life is indeed a little (!) unsettled most of the time, and I am "out of synch and ill-fitted in a lot of ways to the major waves" because I'm different from the mainstream and indeed, most of the BDSM culture - and I've admitted that in a number of ways and a number of posts here. The difference, I think, is that I don't give a damn. So I'm out of synch with what "most" people think - BFHD! The people I care about are able to get close enough in synch with my feelings and thoughts, and I with theirs, to get along. The rest of the sheep? Baaaaa! Send 'em to Montana and NZ.

For me, it's not a matter of outing myself as having certain difficulties and insecurities, because I've already done that. It's simply a matter of accepting myself as I am and as I will be. It's taken me a long time to get here - you "old-timers" know that from my stupid attempt to get out of the culture two years ago - but as I said above: "I yam what I yam."

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[Sir_Winston54]

In most other situations (online or real life), I'm a chameleon in that I do my best to fit in as more of a graciousness thing. The "fit" is rarely perfect, but the attempt is made... sometimes not very well and sometimes with spectacularly poor results, but it's made...

I was an enigma and full of puzzling contradictions.... I told him I called that "being me." ...

gotten more comfortable with myself.

Yup. That's pretty much what I was *trying* to say. Thanks, CM.

 

[sexycaz22]

Just to turn things on their ear a bit, I rarely believe people when they say they don't care if they fit in...

I "fit" well with my best friend and (so far) John [Master Darling™].

In most other situations (online or real life), I'm a chameleon in that I do my best to fit in as more of a graciousness thing. The "fit" is rarely perfect, but the attempt is made... sometimes not very well and sometimes with spectacularly poor results, but it's made. I had coffee with an author about 6 weeks ago, and by the end of our drinks he informed me that I was and enigma and full of puzzling contradictions.... I told him I called that "being me."

I hang out at Lit because it's my online "home"... a lot of people helped me out years ago when I was first trying to sort out all this kinky stuff, and I try (when able) to give practical enough advice to repay that debt... I don't flirt (with a very very few select exceptions), I don't generally discuss BDSM with regards to my personal private life, I usually avoid fluffy threads, and I'm way too serious for my own good... lately it feels like I don't "fit" in around here very well at all, but it doesn't bother me as much as it would have several years ago... probably because my perspective has evolved and changed as I've gotten more comfortable with myself.

I had to include the whole quote, CM but wanted to highlight the words in red!

Yes, I do agree, when I say I don't fit in with my friends right now, that I am doing my own thing, and they do their own thing, and if they don't like how I am doing this in my own way, I do MEAN tough luck to them as they have lost my trust for good, they have hurt me a lot - big time.

However when it comes to the family or munches or even the Lit community, I do try to fit in, simply because I want to feel a part of the community. Not because I want to be a friend, I just want to be made felt that I have a small part in the community.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Thank you..once again you put it out there, far better than I could. I guess that's why I don't, usually.

I've been really hesitant to post about these things because 1. I don't want to be an attention whore, 2. my medical issues are no worse or more serious than anyone else's, 3. because they are really of little interest to most here and C. I don't want it to appear that I'm making excuses for myself.

(I hope you caught that funny I made.)

I feel emotionally precarious all of the time and physically "different" most of the time. Amd a lot like I'm out of synch with everyone else.

 

[BiBunny]

And now for the actual point of the thread.

Thanks first of all to ADR for starting it. I'm pretty sure there are plenty more people who feel the same way that we do, but it's kind of intimidating to admit that you don't really know who or what you are around a bunch of people who say they don't *care* about such things.

It's not so much that I care about what other people think of me, you know? I'm not trying to live up to the expectations of others. It's just that if I don't really know where I am in the universe of all things kink, how can I possibly articulate it to someone else? And if I can't articulate it to someone else, I'm probably doomed to more shitty relationships for the rest of my life.

I'm a switch, in the simplest terms I can think of. But I'm so much more than that particular label. I always thought I was just a bottom until I met someone who made me want to submit. My definition of "submission" and other people's are probably two totally different things, but it worked for me at the time. After what happened to me, I don't see myself ever giving that much of me to anyone ever again, so I guess I'll just revert back to bottoming occasionally, which is mostly fine. A lot of people seem to have a problem with the "NO SUBMISSION" thing, though. I'll let you whip my ass and humiliate me, but if you ask me to give more than I'm willing to give, I'll tell you to shove it where the sun don't shine.

My Top side is the same way. I don't think I'm really dominant, either. I think it's possible that I may meet someone who brings that out in me, though, like I did with my submission. Just because it amuses me to hurt people doesn't mean I suddenly want to control their every move. Lots of folks have problems separating the two things.

I am who I am, and I want to be with people who understand that. I'm just having a damned hard time right now knowing where to draw the boundary lines. I know that communication is always key, even in casual play relationships (which is all I want at the moment, anyhow), but if I don't really even know what I want, then how the hell can I communicate it to someone else?

I don't even know what the hell I'm talking about right now.

 

[HottieMama]

i am comfortable with myself. Like me, don't like me...in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter, at least not here at Lit. i've gotten both shit and kudos for my opinions/advice and i accept that.

i try to surround myself with like-minded people, no matter what, but there will always be those that "don't get it." It is then up to me to decide exactly how much i want them in my life.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I've been really hesitant to post about these things because 1. I don't want to be an attention whore, 2. my medical issues are no worse or more serious than anyone else's, 3. because they are really of little interest to most here and C. I don't want it to appear that I'm making excuses for myself.

(I hope you caught that funny I made.)

I feel emotionally precarious all of the time and physically "different" most of the time. And a lot like I'm out of synch with everyone else.

I know the feeling quite well. (and yes, woman, I caught it) It seems to me that the more I learn about myself, about where and how I want my life's journey to continue, the less I know about myself. It gets confusing and slightly harrowing at times. So, I come on here, post some fluff and try to ignore the real issues I have because I don't want to 1. Rain on anyone else's parade. 2. Put myself out there to sound like a maniac or 4. Be thought of by anyone as less than strong.

And that is the problem, as I see it, for me. I can't be who I am without hiding parts of me away for fear of chasing other people away from my semi-craziness. So to fit in, I feel like I must tell little lies and lose the essence of what (and who) I want to be. *see what i mean?? I can not explain it!!!*

 

[sexycaz22]

And now for the actual point of the thread.

Thanks first of all to ADR for starting it. I'm pretty sure there are plenty more people who feel the same way that we do, but it's kind of intimidating to admit that you don't really know who or what you are around a bunch of people who say they don't *care* about such things.

It's not so much that I care about what other people think of me, you know? I'm not trying to live up to the expectations of others. It's just that if I don't really know where I am in the universe of all things kink, how can I possibly articulate it to someone else? And if I can't articulate it to someone else, I'm probably doomed to more shitty relationships for the rest of my life.

I'm a switch, in the simplest terms I can think of. But I'm so much more than that particular label. I always thought I was just a bottom until I met someone who made me want to submit. My definition of "submission" and other people's are probably two totally different things, but it worked for me at the time. After what happened to me, I don't see myself ever giving that much of me to anyone ever again, so I guess I'll just revert back to bottoming occasionally, which is mostly fine. A lot of people seem to have a problem with the "NO SUBMISSION" thing, though. I'll let you whip my ass and humiliate me, but if you ask me to give more than I'm willing to give, I'll tell you to shove it where the sun don't shine.

My Top side is the same way. I don't think I'm really dominant, either. I think it's possible that I may meet someone who brings that out in me, though, like I did with my submission. Just because it amuses me to hurt people doesn't mean I suddenly want to control their every move. Lots of folks have problems separating the two things.

I am who I am, and I want to be with people who understand that. I'm just having a damned hard time right now knowing where to draw the boundary lines. I know that communication is always key, even in casual play relationships (which is all I want at the moment, anyhow), but if I don't really even know what I want, then how the hell can I communicate it to someone else?

I don't even know what the hell I'm talking about right now.

*smiles* I do know how you feel with regard to the BDSM or kinky or whatever you want to call it, I hate labels myself. Which is why I like the terms PYL or pyl - very cool and a great idea....anyway....back to the fitting in.... I don't know where I do fit in....a pyl or PYL ? do I want to submit fully? (not sure) do I want to be a bottom without submitting fully? (yes! already doing it ) do I want to have someone submitting fully to me? (like the idea in fantasy but in reality - question mark) do I like to top? (hopefully yes!) so you can see where I am struggling with the labels and the speturm....

 

[BiBunny]

It's hard enough to be the only person (in a group of other people) who seems to be either not kinked enough or too kinky by popular vote. It makes for a dizzying array of depressingly fucked up thoughts from: Maybe I am just don't belong here ~to~ Maybe I am
too fucked up to really put my opinions out there for others to hear/see.

BTW, Luna, I have this problem entirely too often myself, so I know how it feels.

 

[A Desert Rose]

That has to be the worst guess I've ever heard about that particular term, LOL.

What does saran wrap do? It clings. It's something someone (possibly me) made up to describe those subs who cling so tightly to their dominants that it's like nails on a chalkboard just to listen to them talk about how much Daddy luuuuuuvs them and cherishes them, blah, blah, blah. You know, those of the manipulative top from the bottom and couch it in bullshit terms variety. They're always quick to call "Abuse!" when a dominant does something that they don't agree with.

aaaaaaahahahaa!!! this makes much more sense than Chris' post did.

Thank you!!!

But a big pat on the back to Chris for being so imaginative in his definition.

 

[BiBunny]

aaaaaaahahahaa!!! this makes much more sense than Chris' post did.

Thank you!!!

But a big pat on the back to Chris for being so imaginative in his definition.

It was kind of my attempt at being witty, and it didn't work out so well.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[A Desert Rose]

You make a lot more sense than you give yourself credit for, Bunny.

And I agree with Cutie, too. So, Ditto this, except that it does bother me:
I don't flirt (with a very very few select exceptions), I don't generally discuss BDSM with regards to my personal private life, I usually avoid fluffy threads, and I'm way too serious for my own good... lately it feels like I don't "fit" in around here very well at all, but it doesn't bother me as much as it would have several years ago... probably because my perspective has evolved and changed as I've gotten more comfortable with myself.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I know the feeling quite well. (and yes, woman, I caught it) It seems to me that the more I learn about myself, about where and how I want my life's journey to continue, the less I know about myself. It gets confusing and slightly harrowing at times. So, I come on here, post some fluff and try to ignore the real issues I have because I don't want to 1. Rain on anyone else's parade. 2. Put myself out there to sound like a maniac or 4. Be thought of by anyone as less than strong.

And that is the problem, as I see it, for me. I can't be who I am without hiding parts of me away for fear of chasing other people away from my semi-craziness. So to fit in, I feel like I must tell little lies and lose the essence of what (and who) I want to be. *see what i mean?? I can not explain it!!!*

And I caught your funny, too... backatcha!!! LOL

Really Luna this is a brave post. Admitting that you tell little lies that take away from who you are, is not an easy thing to do.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[BiBunny]

I think this whole problem of mine is that I found somewhere I fit perfectly and then had it yanked rudely out from under me. I'm still trying to gain my equilibrium somewhere. Or maybe I'm still just pining for things I can't have. Dammit.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Ah but I didn't say it DOESN'T bother me... I said it doesn't bother me as much as it would have once upon a time.

I've had days where I feel insecure about posting here, or saying what's on my mind... I am a lot lot lot quieter about things with John [Master Darling™] after falling flat on my face with Dominican Disaster Boy this summer.

If I'm feeling insecure about something here, I usually have a cup of tea and tick through a mental list of people I respect here who I know care about me... it doesn't take long to regain my balance enough to either decide to not post what I was thinking, decide I had a good point regardless of what everyone else thinks, laugh the whole thing off, or go do something else for a bit.

I'm getting tea!!! Authentic English tea, the real stuff!!! I asked shy to bring me some.

OMG... I can't wait to meet shy...

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

I admit I’m a person that wants to fit in, but has a hard time doing so. I’ve tried over the years. Tried to be what people expected of me. Tried to match my needs to theirs. It’s never worked out very well. There’s too many conflicting pieces of my personality.

I was shy and quiet in school, not quite smart enough to be a part of the brainy groups and not self confident enough to be in a social group. I never talked about myself much, I figured people didn’t really want to hear it. I didn’t like to talk about other people or gossip behind their backs or tease someone just because they might be a little different. That pretty much left me out of any popular groups in school. I’ve found over the years it’s not much different in the work place.

My family’s very religious and I tried for a long time to live that lifestyle, but while I believe in many, many of the teachings I found I just couldn’t live up to them. In my perception of things there was always something needing to be improved that I wasn’t working on. I wanted to do everything perfectly and since that obviously wasn’t going to happen I didn’t fit in there either. And when I started to admit to myself my interest in BDSM it made it even worse. I tried to deny it for years, but that just made things worse. Finally I just quit trying to fit myself there.

Then I got up the courage to start exploring more of this lifestyle. I’m finding there are aspects that fit me and some that don’t. I’m still struggling on how to define myself. What I want, what I need, where I am on the scale of it all. So while I feel like a part of me might fit in here I still don’t feel like I’m completely a part of things.

I admire the people that can stand up and say I don’t care what others think of me. I am who I am and you can take it or leave it. I wish I didn’t care. I wish I wasn’t someone that feels the need to please the people around me and make them happy. I wish a big part of my self image didn't come from how other people see me. And that it didn’t hurt so much to disappoint the people I care about. I wish I believed that I could fit in somewhere. Really, truly, fit in and not just pretend because something fits a small piece of me at the time. I wish I believed that there was a group of people or even one person that understood the whole of me. That understood the conflict between family and religion and BDSM and the need to be what’s expected of me by different people. In my experience most people are only understanding of what activities, beliefs or what have you’s, that are part of their own lives and if you don’t match that then you don't match them.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I admit I’m a person that wants to fit in, but has a hard time doing so. I’ve tried over the years. Tried to be what people expected of me. Tried to match my needs to theirs. It’s never worked out very well. There’s too many conflicting pieces of my personality.

I was shy and quiet in school, not quite smart enough to be a part of the brainy groups and not self confident enough to be in a social group. I never talked about myself much, I figured people didn’t really want to hear it. I didn’t like to talk about other people or gossip behind their backs or tease someone just because they might be a little different. That pretty much left me out of any popular groups in school. I’ve found over the years it’s not much different in the work place.

My family’s very religious and I tried for a long time to live that lifestyle, but while I believe in many, many of the teachings I found I just couldn’t live up to them. In my perception of things there was always something needing to be improved that I wasn’t working on. I wanted to do everything perfectly and since that obviously wasn’t going to happen I didn’t fit in there either. And when I started to admit to myself my interest in BDSM it made it even worse. I tried to deny it for years, but that just made things worse. Finally I just quit trying to fit myself there.

Then I got up the courage to start exploring more of this lifestyle. I’m finding there are aspects that fit me and some that don’t. I’m still struggling on how to define myself. What I want, what I need, where I am on the scale of it all. So while I feel like a part of me might fit in here I still don’t feel like I’m completely a part of things.

I admire the people that can stand up and say I don’t care what others think of me. I am who I am and you can take it or leave it. I wish I didn’t care. I wish I wasn’t someone that feels the need to please the people around me and make them happy. I wish a big part of my self image didn't come from how other people see me. And that it didn’t hurt so much to disappoint the people I care about. I wish I believed that I could fit in somewhere. Really, truly, fit in and not just pretend because something fits a small piece of me at the time. I wish I believed that there was a group of people or even one person that understood the whole of me. That understood the conflict between family and religion and BDSM and the need to be what’s expected of me by different people. In my experience most people are only understanding of what activities, beliefs or what have you’s, that are part of their own lives and if you don’t match that then you don't match them.

Very introspective post. And brave of you to bare so much.

For me, some of the things you are agonizing over now (like measuring your self image by others) have gotten better with age and life experiences... in most cases, anyway. But a lot of things will just have to be worked out over time and with people (or a person) who get in real close to you. Or so it's been my experience, at least.

My advice is really all bullshit... (even I'm rolling my eyes here.)

You're just brave to say so much.

 

[Homburg]

Where do I fit? Anywhere I reeeeeally want to fit. Enough pushing, shoving, persistence, and use of crowbars will allow the fit of most items into any space physically large enough to contain said item. It sounds non-serious, but it is true. If I reeeeeeally want to fit in some where, I will find some way to fit. Same goes for anyone.

The question is how far will you go to fit? To use Luna's words, will you tell little lies, even though they lessen you in your own eyes? Will you change the essence of yourself to fit the expectations of others? Or are you willing to modify those around you to force/enable them to accept you how you are?

I tend towards the latter, to be frank. I don't like the little lies, as most people know my relationship with the truth, but I've told them. They didn't lessen me, they poisoned me. I hate them with a passion. These days, I just won't answer, or change the question, if I am asked something that walks to closely to areas I don't want to enter with a given person.
Sometimes I just say what I feel and damn the consequences. *shrug* I can usually do it in an off-handed manner and get a laugh, so it doesn't matter much in the long run.

Overall though, this sense of fitment is recent and hard-won. For a while there, fit was just not happening, and I fell out of fit with many sectors of my life for a good while. It sucked. I'm back, better than ever (just ask me), and feeling fine with my fitment. Do I care if I fit everywhere? Nope. Do I care if I fit certain places, oh, most assuredly. Do I fit in those places? Yup, because I've either made the internal changes necessary, or just modified the hell out of those places to accept me.

Interestingly enough, there are a few people on this very board that had a hand in how well I fit in my own (furry) skin these days. For that they've earned my gratitude and then some.