Who Is Lying About Iraq?

[Sean]

With the world how it is and was?? Yeah, I probably would given the information that was available at the time. I honestly don't know how much anything else went into the reasoning to go to war but the threat of him possibily having any left and maybe supplying some to terrorist organizations wouldn't have been my only reason.

That's total bollocks. 911 wasn't perpetrated with chems. There were no links between Iraq and al quaida . AQ hated Saddam. Secular govt. and all that.
There sure as hell are links now though.

 

[mack_the_knife]

The theory of him having some left over would play into. The biggest factor for me is the chance to allow the Iraqi people to be free. If this country was taken over by someone like Saddam or another tinpot dictator I would hope like hell that some foreign country would care about allowing me to be free and taking a chance on giving me the chance to be free.

I sure as hell wouldn't count on the US lifting a finger to help anyone else in the world after this bullshit, though. We'll likely just kick back and shrug.

 

[Gringao]

Perhaps if Blix had been given the time?
Or, another tack, the US and UK forces have been in Iraq for a while now. Where are the weapons?

It took UNSCOM four years to even find Iraq's biological weapons facilities. Iraq denied having them up to that point, as it denied having a nuclear weapons program when the IAEA gave them a clean bill of health (just 300 meters from the place where the uranium refinement was going on, I might add).

Are you hinting at the positive benefit of invading Iraq of actually knowing that Saddam was disarmed (aside from the others like having a ruthless dictator in the hoosegow)?

 

[Pookie]

With the world how it is and was?? Yeah, I probably would given the information that was available at the time. I honestly don't know how much anything else went into the reasoning to go to war but the threat of him possibily having any left and maybe supplying some to terrorist organizations wouldn't have been my only reason.

Given how the Bush Administration was handling intelligence, it's a wonder we haven't invaded Mexico by now.

 

[mack_the_knife]

Given how the Bush Administration was handling intelligence, it's a wonder we haven't invaded Mexico by now.

At least if we took over, it'd put a big dent in the illegal immigrant issue, wouldn't it?

 

[Gringao]

That's total bollocks. 911 wasn't perpetrated with chems. There were no links between Iraq and al quaida . AQ hated Saddam. Secular govt. and all that. There sure as hell are links now though.

Then what was Zarqawi doing in Baghdad before the war? Why did Saddam offer asylum to Osama?

 

[SleepingWarrior]

That's total bollocks. 911 wasn't perpetrated with chems. There were no links between Iraq and al quaida . AQ hated Saddam. Secular govt. and all that.
There sure as hell are links now though.

AQ isn't the only terrorist organization on the block. Would it have happened, I highly doubt it but why take the chance? Still, the biggest concern is the former Soviet block and all of the shit they have laying around to be procured by the highest bidder.

 

[mack_the_knife]

AQ isn't the only terrorist organization on the block. Would it have happened, I highly doubt it but why take the chance? Still, the biggest concern is the former Soviet block and all of the shit they have laying around to be procured by the highest bidder.

We should buy all of the USSR's old nukes and give them to Israel for self defence.

 

[Pookie]

Some of it was, some was destroyed by UNSCOM. Still more is not accounted for.

Again, couldn't the unaccounted have been used during the war with Iran? It would seem to be logical that Saddam would've not wanted to explain to the world that much more was used than originally claimed.

 

[SleepingWarrior]

We should buy all of the USSR's old nukes and give them to Israel for self defence.

The Israeli's have enough already.


At some point in time serious thought needs to be given to just blasting a lot of that shit out into deep space.

 

[Pookie]

At least if we took over, it'd put a big dent in the illegal immigrant issue, wouldn't it?

The borders of Iraq wouldn't seem to support that idea, would it?

 

[SleepingWarrior]

Again, couldn't the unaccounted have been used during the war with Iran? It would seem to be logical that Saddam would've not wanted to explain to the world that much more was used than originally claimed.

I just have to say I find it amusing how much trust and flexibility you are willing to give to Saddam.

 

[mack_the_knife]

I just have to say I find it amusing how much trust and flexibility you are willing to give to Saddam.

Unlike their the trust and flexibility folk are willing to give democratic leaders?

 

[Sean]

Are you hinting at the positive benefit of invading Iraq of actually knowing that Saddam was disarmed (aside from the others like having a ruthless dictator in the hoosegow)?

I'm no Saddam apologist. I'm glad he's to be tried. How he can possibly get a "fair" trial is a moot point.
This thread, however, is about lies. The US and UK governments, among others, lied to their populations and their parliaments/ legislatures.

 

[Gringao]

Again, couldn't the unaccounted have been used during the war with Iran? It would seem to be logical that Saddam would've not wanted to explain to the world that much more was used than originally claimed.

No, UNSCOM clearly detailed what was produced, consumed during the Iran/Iraq War, destroyed in Gulf War I, destroyed by UNSCOM and what remained unaccounted for.

 

[Pookie]

I just have to say I find it amusing how much trust and flexibility you are willing to give to Saddam.

Huh? I basically asked how can we trust that Saddam was telling us the truth about how much he used against Iran. How this is showing trust and flexibility for Saddam is beyond me? *shrugs*

 

[Gringao]

I'm no Saddam apologist. I'm glad he's to be tried. How he can possibly get a "fair" trial is a moot point.
This thread, however, is about lies. The US and UK governments, among others, lied to their populations and their parliaments/ legislatures.

The Butler Commission report doesn't support your assertion regarding the UK, and the Senate Select Intelligence Committee report doesn't support your assertion regarding the US.

 

[Pookie]

No, UNSCOM clearly detailed what was produced, consumed during the Iran/Iraq War, destroyed in Gulf War I, destroyed by UNSCOM and what remained unaccounted for.

And where did they get the info on what was consumed during the Iran war?

 

[Sean]

The Butler Commission report doesn't support your assertion regarding the UK, and the Senate Select Intelligence Committee report doesn't support your assertion regarding the US.

The Butler Inquiry was a fucking joke G. It did the Blair government more harm in the whitewash than it would have done exposing the truth. When the Butler report came out, trust in New Labour halved. HALVED.

 

[Sean]

And where did they get the info on what was consumed during the Iran war?

More to the point, where did they get the weapons? Oh. Yeah. I forgot.

 

[SleepingWarrior]

Huh? I basically asked how can we trust that Saddam was telling us the truth about how much he used against Iran. How this is showing trust and flexibility for Saddam is beyond me? *shrugs*

Too much to explain. But basically... every argument so far has been in favor of the thought he had nothing and reaching for any possible scenario to set it in stone. Thats all well and good but eh, its a bit too blinderized.

 

[Gringao]

And where did they get the info on what was consumed during the Iran war?

From Iraq, though the report hints at having some documentary evidence to corroborate Iraqi assertions.

 

[Pookie]

More to the point, where did they get the weapons? Oh. Yeah. I forgot.

They don't trust Saddam to tell the truth at the time leading up to the war, but they trust him when he told the UN how many chemical weapons were used during the Iran war. *snort*

And I'm the one being accused of giving Saddam trust and flexibility? Heh.

 

[Gringao]

The Butler Inquiry was a fucking joke G. It did the Blair government more harm in the whitewash than it would have done exposing the truth. When the Butler report came out, trust in New Labour halved. HALVED.

Then what are you hanging your hat on to assert that Blair lied? Butler seemed pretty even-handed and objective to me.

 

[Gringao]

More to the point, where did they get the weapons? Oh. Yeah. I forgot.

Mostly German firms, from what I read.