Who Is Lying About Iraq?

[SleepingWarrior]

They don't trust Saddam to tell the truth at the time leading up to the war, but they trust him when he told the UN how many chemical weapons were used during the Iran war. *snort*

And I'm the one being accused of giving Saddam trust and flexibility? Heh.

I said quite plainly that I wouldn't doubt they were gone. Its you arguing they were definitely gone.

 

[Pookie]

From Iraq, though the report hints at having some documentary evidence to corroborate Iraqi assertions.

Hints of documentary evidence, huh? Soooo ... where would this documentary evidence have come from?

 

[Sean]

They don't trust Saddam to tell the truth at the time leading up to the war, but they trust him when he told the UN how many chemical weapons were used during the Iran war. *snort*

And I'm the one being accused of giving Saddam trust and flexibility? Heh.

Hey, Bush senior knew how much weaponry Saddam had. He still has the fucking receipts.

 

[Gringao]

Hints of documentary evidence, huh? Soooo ... where would this documentary evidence have come from?

38. The Commission's verification activities of the military aspects were the most sensitive elements of its investigation of Iraq's CW-programme. The Commission's attempts to clarify these issues created controversy on the Iraqi side. The document found by the Commission in July 1998 at the Head Quarters of the Iraqi Air force was an example of the documentation related to the military aspects. It detailed the expenditure of special munitions by the Air Force during the Iran-Iraq war. It was taken away by the Iraqi authorities from the Commission's inspection team in the course of the inspection and was not returned to the Commission

 

[Gringao]

Hey, Bush senior knew how much weaponry Saddam had. He still has the fucking receipts.

Sorry, but Russia, China, France and yes, the UK all had far, far more to do with the arming of Saddam than the US. We barely sold him anything, in fact.

 

[Pookie]

I said quite plainly that I wouldn't doubt they were gone. Its you arguing they were definitely gone.

Well, obviously they were gone. The question is when? There was no reliable intelligence gathered to find out if the worst case scenario was supported. There was quite a bit running contrary to it still existing in Iraq.

 

[Sean]

Sorry, but Russia, China, France and yes, the UK all had far, far more to do with the arming of Saddam than the US. We barely sold him anything, in fact.

Rummy must be a crap salesman then. He went there three times.

 

[Gringao]

Rummy must be a crap salesman then. He went there three times.

He wasn't selling anything. Unlike Galloway, who was selling himself...got a decent price, too.

 

[Pookie]

38. The Commission's verification activities of the military aspects were the most sensitive elements of its investigation of Iraq's CW-programme. The Commission's attempts to clarify these issues created controversy on the Iraqi side. The document found by the Commission in July 1998 at the Head Quarters of the Iraqi Air force was an example of the documentation related to the military aspects. It detailed the expenditure of special munitions by the Air Force during the Iran-Iraq war. It was taken away by the Iraqi authorities from the Commission's inspection team in the course of the inspection and was not returned to the Commission

So, it came from "attempts to clarify". How do we know that those were all the expenditures of special munitions? Does the report state that they had confidence that it accounted for all that was used during the Iran war? You have faith that Iraq wasn't cooking the books in some way?

 

[Gringao]

So, it came from "attempts to clarify". How do we know that those were all the expenditures of special munitions? Does the report state that they had confidence that it accounted for all that was used during the Iran war? You have faith that Iraq wasn't cooking the books in some way?

They might have been, but I doubt it. You only cook books if you expect to have to show them to someone some day - someone hostile to you - and then you actually want him to see the cooked numbers to be better misled by them. After the defeat of Iraq in 1991, of course, it's like that they lied about how much was destroyed unilaterally, a fact that the Commission also takes into account:

The Commission has a lesser degree of confidence in accounting for proscribed items declared by Iraq as having been destroyed unilaterally. These include 15,900 unfilled and 100 filled special munitions, the CW agent VX and 50 tonnes of a precursor for the production of VX. Nevertheless, the Commission has accepted through its verification the destruction of 13,660 special munitions and about 200 tonnes of key precursors. However, residual questions remain with respect to proscribed items destroyed unilaterally. The presentation by foreign suppliers of information on the delivery of munitions and precursors requested by UNSCOM could be helpful in the verification of this area.

 

[Pookie]

I said quite plainly that I wouldn't doubt they were gone. Its you arguing they were definitely gone.

Quote me where I'm arguing that they were "definitely gone?" Why put words in my mouth? I'm just raising a very valid possibility is all.

 

[Pookie]

They might have been, but I doubt it. You only cook books if you expect to have to show them to someone some day - someone hostile to you - and then you actually want him to see the cooked numbers to be better misled by them.

I think it would be quite logical for Saddam to assume he would have to account for them by showing the books at some time, especially given the outrage he had to know he was bound to face from the world at some point. He seemed to me to be quite the paranoid one.

 

[Sean]

"presentation by foreign suppliers of information on the delivery of munitions and precursors requested by UNSCOM could be helpful in the verification of this area."

Isn't that an interesting sentence.

 

[Pookie]

"presentation by foreign suppliers of information on the delivery of munitions and precursors requested by UNSCOM could be helpful in the verification of this area."

Isn't that an interesting sentence.

I caught that one too.

 

[man4allseasons]

dis-information is fun!

after I put on waders and a biohazard suit...the article you posted had me rolling on the floor.


ret. Gen Colin Powell, former U.S. secretary of state had a news conference 2 weeks before his UN speech where he stated the most of the intelligence reports were questionable.......obviously something got twisted besides his arm......wmds were a lie and Cheney knew it.....whether W understood is another story!....cryin my ass off.....remember....half the USA is below average...

p.s. i use to be a republican...now i just wana be a lobbyist

 

[Gringao]

I think it would be quite logical for Saddam to assume he would have to account for them by showing the books at some time, especially given the outrage he had to know he was bound to face from the world at some point. He seemed to me to be quite the paranoid one.

Saddam never expected to lose Gulf War I.

 

[SleepingWarrior]

Saddam never expected to lose Gulf War I.

Never thought it'd happen this time around either. Thought his French, German and Russian buddies would keep the forces out.

 

[Sean]

Saddam never expected to lose Gulf War I.

He didn't expect to be in gulf war 1. He thought the US would treat him exactly the way they treated him when he invaded Iraq. Cheering from the sidelines.

 

[Pookie]

Saddam never expected to lose Gulf War I.

Did he have a premonition that there would even be a Gulf War I? Wouldn't it be logical for him to believe that the UN or someone wouldn't come knocking at some point, war or not?

 

[SleepingWarrior]

Did he have a premonition that there would even be a Gulf War I? Wouldn't it be logical for him to believe that the UN or someone wouldn't come knocking at some point, war or not?

Why would he? He was a cash cow to quite a few high ranking UN members.

 

[Pookie]

He didn't expect to be in gulf war 1.

You beat me to it.

 

[Gringao]

He didn't expect to be in gulf war 1. He thought the US would treat him exactly the way they treated him when he invaded Iraq. Cheering from the sidelines.

I think you mean Iran. No, according to Kenneth Pollack (Bill Clinton's top Iraq policy advisor), Saddam always thought there would be a US military response to his invasion of Kuwait, but he sincerely thought he could win it.

 

[Pookie]

Why would he? He was a cash cow to quite a few high ranking UN members.

They would be just the people to hand over cooked books to some day, wouldn't they?

 

[Pookie]

I think you mean Iran. No, according to Kenneth Pollack (Bill Clinton's top Iraq policy advisor), Saddam always thought there would be a US military response to his invasion of Kuwait, but he sincerely thought he could win it.

So, he did have a premonition of Gulf War I at the time of the war with Iran?

 

[SleepingWarrior]

They would be just the people to hand over cooked books to some day, wouldn't they?

After he was dead maybe. With all the oil Iraq had it wasn't exactly hard for Saddam to keep the cash flow coming.