Who is polyamorous?

[OneColdMonkey]

Could you give the title of the book and quote what it said about the definition and etymology of monogamy? I'd be very curious to see what their claim was.

Keep in mind, too, that polyamory and polygamy are different words.

I know the diffrence between polyamory and polygamy, thanks. This was the book I read. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...02/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/002-7807597-7659233 I'm not sure where it is in the house at the moment though. If it pops up I'll find the quote for you. (The book itself is a little new-agey for my taste, but good.)

 

[mitchell67]

Re: generals generally generate

Generally, women want weddings, men want marriages. Generally. There are exceptions of course and the trend may be changing that anyway.
Generally.

Interesting analogy, but I'd like to expand...

I think we ought to be clear about why who wants what. 'Generally' (ok, almost always) men could not care less about all the anxiety or decisions surrounding weddings. There's a simple reason why there is no monthly magazine on the newsstands called: Bridegrooms. We would all wear the same tuxedo and just pass it around if we thought we could get away with it.
So then does that mean that men want the marriage by default? Once again terms must be further refined. By marriage are we talking about the state regulated civil contract or the religious sanctification of a sexual union, etc.?
'Generally' men want whatever will provide them sex. If she needs a wedding to make her feel happily complete or to show up her girlfriends, or because she has dreamt about her perfect day since she was a little girl and he thinks that her happiness will lead to a steady stream of sex, he puts on the tuxedo.

More and more today, marriage really seems to be the byproduct of the wedding, which is 'generally' all the bride focusses on. I think that neither he nor she really knows what they want until well into the marriage (and unfortunately after they've bred a few kids), which is why we have such a high divorce rate still and the phenomenon of the 'starter marriage'.
Now if only all the decisions and variables that went into weddings could be optioned in marriages, we might have happier contractual relationships and fewer people wondering why their spouses aren't living up to their expectations.
again...I'll stop now

 

[John Doe]

Re: Re: generals generally generate

Interesting analogy, but I'd like to expand...

I presented no analogy.

I think we ought to be clear about why who wants what.

The reasons (and reasoning) vary from person to person.

'Generally' (ok, almost always) men could not care less about all the anxiety or decisions surrounding weddings. There's a simple reason why there is no monthly magazine on the newsstands called: Bridegrooms. We would all wear the same tuxedo and just pass it around if we thought we could get away with it.
So then does that mean that men want the marriage by default? Once again terms must be further refined.

You're switching cause and effect in my opinion. I don't think menare disinterested in weddings so much because culturally the planning and fussing is a 'womanly' thing, but I think men view weddings more as a means to an end, not an end in and of itself, so they are not so concerned with that flowers you're going to have or whether you'll release a dozen doves to signify peace and understanding or the bride losing her virginity on her wedding night (pffft, yeah right!) or some shit, but things like how many kids they'll have and whether they'll be raised Episcopalian or Jedi.

This is why I think (generally) men are more slow to commit in general, not just getting married either. We tend to be planning ahead and so on, whereas women are more in the moment and olooking at things from the perspective of thier current state and what they feel is an appropriate level of commitment.
Culturally it seems to true to a large extent that people think marriage isfor people who are in love, but when men start thinking about actually getting married, they start thinking about settling down and starting a family.

I think some men can be afraid of commitment, but I think some women can be too.

By marriage are we talking about the state regulated civil contract or the religious sanctification of a sexual union, etc.?

Yes.

'Generally' men want whatever will provide them sex. If she needs a wedding to make her feel happily complete or to show up her girlfriends, or because she has dreamt about her perfect day since she was a little girl and he thinks that her happiness will lead to a steady stream of sex, he puts on the tuxedo.

No. Lately premarital sex is not that big a deal and of course we've heard all the jokes like, what substance dampens a woman's sex drive by 99% almost immediately? Wedding cake. Which is true to a large extent (not literally about wedding cake), at least until recently.

More and more today, marriage really seems to be the byproduct of the wedding, which is 'generally' all the bride focusses on. I think that neither he nor she really knows what they want until well into the marriage (and unfortunately after they've bred a few kids), which is why we have such a high divorce rate still and the phenomenon of the 'starter marriage'.

Perhaps you're right.

Now if only all the decisions and variables that went into weddings could be optioned in marriages, we might have happier contractual relationships and fewer people wondering why their spouses aren't living up to their expectations.
again...I'll stop now

It'd be interesting to see what would happen to the divorce rate if prenups could cover everything, but as I understand it, it's mainly a financial CYA measure.

 

[Netzach]

Re: Re: Re: Re: fairy tales

*snicker* both of our boys (and their families) as well as our families have been told that there will be no weddings - there will be a quick ceremony with a JP and a party afterwards for everyone who cares to celebrate the union with us. And it all started when the older of my two brothers got married and our parents turned to my other brother and me and told us that if we just eloped, there would be significant financial gain in it for us. LOL

Personally, I think that weddings are way too overdone anymore. The important part isn't the dress, it isn't the prestigious place that you book for the reception ... the important thing is that you are making a commitment - whether it's to one person, to two people, or to 50 people (ok, so that last one is moving towards "cult" and not really polyamory, but whatever ).

All we want is the 4 of us there (the two who are getting married plus the other two as witnesses) and that's it. No huge church, no huge expensive dress that will only be worn once, no 150+ guest list, no fights over "but you're inviting X people from *wherever,*" no having to pick freakin wedding colors that won't make the bridesmaids look like they are dying... I will get married in jeanshorts afterall, like I told my mom I would when I was 5 *giggles as she imagines ghosst turning purple over that one*.

Amen, this it our mentality about it too. We are doing the actual marriage all shotgun city hall last minute style and we are having a small get together for close friends later on when the weather here normalizes. I'm not going to get more in debt over getting married. I expect to come out slightly ahead on the gifts issue. I am not going to further hobble us before we even get out the gate if you believe, as I do, that money problems can kill even the best of relationships. It's just not worth it.

I want to BE married, not GET married.


And I'm elated to be marrying a boy who loves cock, poly was definitely one of those things about M that made me realize I could actually find someone compatible to my exceptionally picky and iconoclastic needs in a primary partner.

 

[SweetDommes]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: fairy tales

Amen, this it our mentality about it too. We are doing the actual marriage all shotgun city hall last minute style and we are having a small get together for close friends later on when the weather here normalizes. I'm not going to get more in debt over getting married. I expect to come out slightly ahead on the gifts issue. I am not going to further hobble us before we even get out the gate if you believe, as I do, that money problems can kill even the best of relationships. It's just not worth it.

I want to BE married, not GET married.


And I'm elated to be marrying a boy who loves cock, poly was definitely one of those things about M that made me realize I could actually find someone compatible to my exceptionally picky and iconoclastic needs in a primary partner.

Oh, that's wonderful *hugs* congrats and good luck to you both - all - whatever lol (sorry if you've announced this before - lol - I missed it). And yeah, that's totally how we feel about it - we want to be married, not get married.

 

[Etoile]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: fairy tales

Psst, Netzach, it sounds like congrats are in order?

I guess I have a different perspective, though. I've been married all this time. Now I want to GET married. My wife has been married before (legally, to a guy) and they ended up splitting after 10 years together. So she and I won't be having any kind of ceremony or party celebrating our commitment until we've been together that long. Maybe it's because I'm young - just turned 24 - but I want a little ceremony or party. Or maybe it's just that I want what I can't have? Because I'm denied legal recognition, that means I want some other form of recognition from friends and family? I'm not sure what it is. What I DO know is that a lot of my friends and acquaintances have been getting married lately, and I'm jealous each time an invitation comes. My wife and I have been together MUCH longer than these couples have been, and yet we still haven't gotten to do what they're doing.

Um, guess I got a little off the topic there!

 

[mitchell67]

Re: white knights and castles for two

[...] Maybe it's because I'm young - just turned 24 - but I want a little ceremony or party. Or maybe it's just that I want what I can't have? Because I'm denied legal recognition, that means I want some other form of recognition from friends and family? I'm not sure what it is. What I DO know is that a lot of my friends and acquaintances have been getting married lately, and I'm jealous each time an invitation comes. My wife and I have been together MUCH longer than these couples have been, and yet we still haven't gotten to do what they're doing.

Um, guess I got a little off the topic there!

In fact I think you reinforce what I described above as an analogy: women are to weddings as men are to marriages. But what I still don't understand is why you and the wife don't simply send out a few invitations on suitable stationery and have the little party that you want.
Are you conflating the wedding ceremony with the marriage and all its legalisms and social acknowledgements? Or is there a part that doesn't quite know where to stand with all the debates surrounding same sex marriage?
I am not judging nor putting you on the spot but what you describe as all you want with a 'little ceremony or party' would seem like a small issue to achieve unless you were making it into a larger sort of struggle.

 

[Etoile]

Re: Re: white knights and castles for two

In fact I think you reinforce what I described above as an analogy: women are to weddings as men are to marriages. But what I still don't understand is why you and the wife don't simply send out a few invitations on suitable stationery and have the little party that you want.
Are you conflating the wedding ceremony with the marriage and all its legalisms and social acknowledgements? Or is there a part that doesn't quite know where to stand with all the debates surrounding same sex marriage?
I am not judging nor putting you on the spot but what you describe as all you want with a 'little ceremony or party' would seem like a small issue to achieve unless you were making it into a larger sort of struggle.

No, I'm quite certain of where I stand on the same-sex marriage issue - for both myself and society. As I mentioned, the reason we're not having that party yet is because my wife wants to wait until we've been together longer than her previous marriage lasted.

More of my thoughts on this can be read at the blog entry this thread spurred me to write. (I posted another copy of it here and have gotten more replies so far on that site than my regular site.)

 

[rimmy]

I'm not polyamorous but both my bf and gf are

 

[Shagly]

I am at times, if I ever can stop working 60 hour weeks.

Life is like a lab experiment, you never know what will cum up.

 

[blue kat]

sneakin' over from the bdsm boards to comment

I've always been poly; there's only been one so far where I haven't been. My current love interest is a very sweet young lady with MONDO huge insecurities and big self esteem issues. I'm concentrating only on her at the moment.

That being said, she is open eventually to the idea. Since she's more bi than I am, I have no problem with her having a boyfriend eventually, as long as I've met him and like him too. I'd prefer to see her with another woman, but that's more in line with my sexuality, and she may need or want a man.

Polyamory can take a lot of different forms. There's the actual triads, (or more! But triads are more common.) and there's also couples that allow outside relationships. This is what I've done in the past. I'm open to a triad or other group but I've never tried it.
For me personally, there's always been ground rules. First off, full disclosure. No sneaking around. If you have a lover that you're ashamed/afraid to have your other lover, there's underlying issues that need to be dealt with. Second is an elaboration of the first. I get the veto rights on my lover's lover, and she gets veto rights on mine. Third rule is safety. We do the safer sex thing. Latex for fisting, saran wrap for oral, (don't laugh kids! You can do fun things with that! And it tastes better than a dam!) and rubbers for various toys. Should we ever meet someone to be another primary in the relationship, then we can renegotiate these particular limits. Last rule is (since we're a D/s couple) I'm always the Domme. Always.

But anyway, all that's sort of academic, since the young lady is still a bit insecure. But I know it's something she's interested.

And another quick ot comment: I wouldn't be so quick to denigrate the middle eastern form of polygamy. When it goes wrong, it tends to go wrong badly. And a lot of males tend to abuse the privilege. However, when it's done right, it tends to work out very well! There is a young lady wandering around lit who grew up in one of these households and has nothing but good memories about her dad, her mom and her moms. She says it can be pretty bad, but in her experience it worked. Her dad loved 7 very different women (not all at the same time. The max allowed at any one time is 4.) at different times in his life. The girls (I've met one of her sisters, too.) say that it was great for them too. They had a big happy family, even with sibling rivalries and all that. Her own mother died when she was fairly young, (cancer) and her "other mothers" as she called them(steps is what we'd call them here) were a godsend and a lifeline.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I am poly

I can not be happy with just one person. I tried it, did not work. Ideally, I need one man and one woman to feel like I have taken care of both sides of me (bisexuality, Dominant, submissive, Sadist, masochist etc. etc). My relationship now is basic...He goes outside of us on occassion for nilla sex. I go outside of us for female companionship. It works. We are happy.

As for the marriage (wedding) point, I don't believe in it in the conventional sense. Simply put, I don't ever want to be married without the foreknowledge that I will not ever have to stop doing what I do. I want to know that we are honest enough to acknowledge that being monogomous isn't going to work. And if monogomy ever becomes an issue, then I want the right to decide to walk away for my own sake. Legally, after you are married, walking away becomes alot of work.

JMHO
Luna

 

[blue kat]

Re: I am poly

[BAs for the marriage (wedding) point, I don't believe in it in the conventional sense. Simply put, I don't ever want to be married without the foreknowledge that I will not ever have to stop doing what I do. I want to know that we are honest enough to acknowledge that being monogamous isn't going to work. And if monogamy ever becomes an issue, then I want the right to decide to walk away for my own sake. Legally, after you are married, walking away becomes alot of work.

Luna [/B]

Wot she said..

The "traditional" form of marriage doesn't fit my sexuality. So I can seek to redefine the concept on my terms, which doesn't work for me. To force my vision of marriage on another is just as wrong as those who try to force me into a heterosexual, male dominant duality. The other option is to get politically active and seek recognition of same-sex and/or corporate marriages, I guess. It's a worthwhile cause and I do support it at home (I'm studying abroad right now), but I don't see it happening in my lifetime.

edited for lack of spell-checkedness

 

[none2_none2]

Poly-wally doodle all day

To be honest, most of my adult life I always felt pressured to be non-monogamous. A gay man was considered surpressed, unnatural, or an desirable if he didn't get around. For me, emotionally that kind of lifestyle was always so unnatural as I hated the games and the constant hunt. Nevertheless, I lived the life I thought I had to live for about 20 some years.

What was so funny in my younger days is that most of my partners were rather borish. You couldn't rely on them for much emotional support because they were too busy multitasking with all their other sexual or romantic interests. You normally couldn't count on them for sex either because they were so drained with all the people they made their rounds with. They really didn't have many hobbies as their lives revolved around the pleasure hunt. Though some "claimed" that they had feelings for me, I really never felt anything from them. As far as I was concerned, if they made the rounds, they were "fuck-buddy". I would never call someone with that behavior a "lover".

I remember one of my favorite, long-term "fuck-buddies". He was worried about my "fooling around" and about all the possible "deseases". I asked him what did he expect when he was screwing around himself. His answer was that he was monogamous with "ALL" his partners... Many times when it was "my turn" on his "dance card list" he seemed to be sexually interested, but he couldn't be perform since there is a limit to how many times a guy can get off. (Even though I am a top, it is a more enjoyable experience if the other person is a bit "rested".)

I did the 12-step for several years to get out of that cycle. The thing that really helped was being loved by someone who didn't time-slice their heart and/or their bodies. I'm just thankful that I survivied 20 years of the lifestyle without getting something like HIV...

I've been in a monogamous relationship now for 2.5 years. I look at porn, vids or stories, but I don't cyber or go cruzing for other guys. I wouldn't trade my guy for any extra-curricular physical or emotional activity partners. I should mention that our lives don't revolve around getting it on with each other all the time. Our life together is just very comfortable. I love him, and for those words to mean something I give him my heart and my zipper to back it up the words. We both feel this way.

I should say I've seen some of the same problems in the heterosexual world. My straight uncle always seemed to be a multi-tasker. Obviously I wasn't one of his love interests, even so, he really wasn't very interesting to spend time with because he was so pre-occupied with his conquests. He seemed like a nice guy on the outside, but he would say rather self-absorbed things now and then. He once told my grandmother (his mother) that he and his a young girlfriend would have so much more fun if she would just give custody of her very young kids over to her ex.

I'm not bitter about my past. It was my bed and I made it. I also accept that others differ from me, and should be free to live their life as they wish. However, I don't give that lifestyle much respect as I've been there, done that. It a lifestyle that is not as glamouous as some would lead you to believe.

 

[SweetDommes]

none2_none2 - while I'm quite sorry that you had such a negative past ... that isn't exactly what this thread is about. It's about polyamoury ... about having committed relationships with more than just one person - and it sounds to me like that is not at all what you had. What you had is what some people like to claim is polyamoury, but ... no, that's just fooling around with a lot of different people.

Our lifestyle is definately polyamoury, but not at all what you have described as your experiences ... and while I don't really expect you to respect our version, I would like for you to at least acknowledge the difference.

My girlfriend and I have been together for 5, almost 6 years, and our boy has been with us for over a year now. We love each other, we care for and about each other, and we intend to stay together - we do not go around with random people ... we definately do not disreguard each other's feelings.