Why do you hate Obama?

[dan_c00000]

We need to let Apple, Google and Amazon keep more of their money so they can buy the rest of the continent.

And let the "University" of Phoenix educate us.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

And let the "University" of Phoenix educate us.

yeah, like you would ever pay for college ...

 

[BotanyBoy]

Conservatism does not equate to decentralized government, nor to libertarian government.

We aren't talking about actual politics...

We are talking about the US RWCJ fantasy of a freedom loving theocracy that is some mega war machine/prison/police state that showers them with trillions in gubmint contracts without any taxes or rules.......

Because the magic hand of the market provides for anyone and everyone who works and a little elbow grease is all you need to make a living.

The coffee, or the doobz?

Yes.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

We aren't talking about actual politics...

We are talking about the US RWCJ fantasy of a freedom loving theocracy that is some mega war machine/prison/police state that showers them with trillions in gubmint contracts without any taxes or rules.......

Because the magic hand of the market provides for anyone and everyone who works and a little elbow grease is all you need to make a living.



Yes.

a junkie talking to another obama slave while making boytoy SeanR jealous

 

[Sean Renaud]

And I often wonder how the RWCJ manages to reconcile their love of a theocracy with their claimed belief in freedom. I at least make no bones about it. There are things, plenty of things in fact, in which the individual should get absolutely no say.

We could go into nuance about which ones are required and which aren't but as a gut reaction you don't get a choice on vaccines. You just don't, fuck you that's why. I don't care about the flu vaccine but MMR, nope no choice. HPV. . .probably I'd have to go through the list after that to find out what other things you don't get a choice in.

Until we get UHC paying for your own Health Insurance should be forced upon you at "gun point."

You have to pay taxes and it has to be based on your income and it's not punishment. Not anymore than the young men being the ones who carry your couch into the house while the little girls bring in smaller lighter objects. The reality is that even at the absurd rate of 50%, half of a million dollars is still ten times one hundred percent of 50k. I'm sorry you want to cry but I'll gladly switch spots. (Though I make more than 50k on average that's not remotely the point.)

 

[Ramp1311]

Except every major civilization that ever existed......

Can't have a world power nation/civilization without a strong centralized gubbmint.....they simply don't exist, and that's why for all their bluster every conservative out there fails to name a single one. Or actually stand behind their bullshit.....

Wrong again.......

You can not have a world power, but you can have a civilization, and a peaceful civilization at that..... many examples of that throughout time....

and there are many examples of enlarged government harming their populations throughout time, it is why there are so many revolutions.....

 

[Ramp1311]

lol.. It is just what I expected on this thread. People trying their best to prove that big government is best for people, people making excuses (and twisting history) to try and make it fit to their "ideas"..... when faced with the truth about big government, they quickly throw out that "except for these countries" big government has worked..... no it never has, as country after country that has enlarged its government has met with revolution or war or was forced to change their government......

 

[BotanyBoy]

Wrong again.......

You can not have a world power, but you can have a civilization,

Not one that amounts to fuck all you can't. Like I said you can't name a single minimal government nation that isn't a total fuckin' shit hole.

Like it or not there is a balance...and big gubbmint is part of that balance weather you like it or not. Not enough you get a 3rd world shit hole...too much you wind up with collapsed super power.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Wrong again.......

You can not have a world power, but you can have a civilization, and a peaceful civilization at that..... many examples of that throughout time....

Such as? China and India were only peaceful when they had centralized governments, at other times the independent states were always at war with each other, just as in the European civilization throughout its history until the end of WWII and the gradual formation of the EU. Likewise with the Islamic civilization -- either it had a single Caliph or it was a collection of warring states. The conflicts between the ancient Greek cities are legendary, and ended only when Rome conquered them. I can't think of a single civilization which has ever been at peace internally without a common and effectual ruler/government.

and there are many examples of enlarged government harming their populations throughout time, it is why there are so many revolutions.....

That is not so WRT most revolutions. Generally, revolutionaries object to what the government is doing or not doing, not to how big it is. The French Revolution and the Russian Revolution were neither of them against an overbearing state as such, but against the socioeconomic order that state supported. The American Revolution was not against an enlarged British government that was harming the people -- it was not harming them, yet, and not very "enlarged" either, by modern standards -- but, pre-emptively, against the English/British gentry whom Americans feared might use the Crown to take over the colonies and turn the Americans into tenants of absentee landlords, as had already happened in Scotland and Ireland. With the arguable exception of the "hole in the flag" revolutions in Europe when Communism fell, I cannot think of any examples of revolutions against "enlarged government."

 

[Sean Renaud]

Wrong again.......

You can not have a world power, but you can have a civilization, and a peaceful civilization at that..... many examples of that throughout time....

and there are many examples of enlarged government harming their populations throughout time, it is why there are so many revolutions.....

You can try to have a civilization. IT probably won't hold together very well for a lot of reasons. Long story short soemone has to be in charge.

lol.. It is just what I expected on this thread. People trying their best to prove that big government is best for people, people making excuses (and twisting history) to try and make it fit to their "ideas"..... when faced with the truth about big government, they quickly throw out that "except for these countries" big government has worked..... no it never has, as country after country that has enlarged its government has met with revolution or war or was forced to change their government......

Who's twisting history here? You're not even providing history to begin with and the reality is you do need a fairly powerful central government if you. America works just fine and has a huge government, the nations of Europe all have large governments. No matter our personal feelings about how they treat their people China is a long way from a failed state a failed state looks a lot more like the current middle east which the places that did fall apart did so do to outside destabilization much more than internal anger. And those guys had zero qualms about taking yout out back and shoot you in the head.

You're simply incorrect on the subject. Of course what defines big is very much up to question.

 

[Ramp1311]

To answer you Badbabysitter

This will be my last post to you, as I do not suffer fools gladly.

To your final statement that you support abortion as a choice, that is not a true answer, and is something I have found to expect from you. You decided what you want to believe and try and fit history to that belief, instead of just admitting you are wrong.

Now I asked you a very pointed question, do you support abortion for birth control?
While abortion to save the woman's life, or in the case of rape, incest, etc can be supported, your callus statement that a child is a choice reeks of Germany 1930's and 40's. They too relegated people to a "choice", deciding that there were some people unfit to live.

However, let us look at the stats....... we shall use 2011.... the good news is that the abortion rate is dropping, but that is another stat.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/Abortion.htm

"In 2011, 730,322 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2011 was 13.9 abortions per 1,000 women ages 15–44, and the abortion ratio was 219 abortions per 1,000 live births."

So you are telling me you support that many abortions? Most of those were not rape victims, incest victims, or the woman's life was in danger.

I support abortion, but most of those women who had those abortions were for "convenience" and I do not support that, not when there are items and ways that can prevent pregnancy.

I will agree with you that in previous decades, women were not given a choice about their bodies, but times, and contraceptives, have changed.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I support abortion as birth control. It should be the last in a long line of other things you did first but ultimately yes I support it as birth control. In fact in reality anybody who supports abortion supports it as birth control. That's what it's used for in this country and around the world and has been since people figured out how.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You're simply incorrect on the subject. Of course what defines big is very much up to question.

I think that's where about 90% of the discrepancy lies.....I think few people are actually true hardliners one way or the other.

This will be my last post to you, and on this thread, as I do not suffer fools gladly.

Ahh...ain't got shit so ya run with tail tucked...

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm sure that's where the discrepancy lies. When you ask most Right wingers what they would eliminate that the government does you get a few answers. A lot of them would like to cut the IRS or install a flat tax. A lot of them would like to cut the Department of Education. Though that one seems to be that they don't even know what the DoE actually does and they apparently think it dictates curriculum. (Which it should but doesn't.) Aside from that they tend to be loathe to give solid answers of any sort. Because they do like the services the government has. When you ask Left Wingers what they would like to see the government do that it doesn't you get a fair amount who would say Universal Health Care, a few who want stricter gun control. Though if you go into specifics it seems that a majority of Americans are either on board or at least indifferent to that. Some want stricter environmental standards. Other than that I don't see much in the way of universal Lefty things to grow the government.

A lot of Lefties would gladly shrink or eliminate Homeland Security and in particular the Patriot Act. A lot would gladly loosen or outright eliminate non-violent drug charges and get rid of mandatory minimum sentences. (Personally after reading a report I think we should stop electing judges and have them appointed and generally protected from public scrutiny. Basically you can damn near chart when it's election season based on what kind of sentences judges give out. They want to appear hard on crime so they are real douches around that time. Most righties want much stricter border control and in truth most lefties don't so much disagree as think nobody has delivered a workable strategy yet. Most would gladly overturn Roe v Wade if they thought it stood a chance in hell of passing.

So yeah, a lot of the problem is that nobody can even agree on what big government actually IS to begin with other than Russia and China and Iran have them (and even then most Americans know close to zero about those governments in any particulars.)

 

[KingOrfeo]

This will be my last post to you, and on this thread, as I do not suffer fools gladly.

To your final statement that you support abortion as a choice, that is not a true answer . . .

How could it not be a true answer?

 

[Ramp1311]

I support abortion as birth control. It should be the last in a long line of other things you did first but ultimately yes I support it as birth control. In fact in reality anybody who supports abortion supports it as birth control. That's what it's used for in this country and around the world and has been since people figured out how.

I will respond to this. Today there are many contraceptives on the market that are very effective. Since a intelligent person would plan ahead, there should not be so many abortions.

Like I said, I am for abortion in certain cases, but to just have it on demand, simply because, is irresponsible and reckless. We are talking about life. Some people value dogs, cats, turtles, lives over human life. To simply say it is a choice, is wrong on so many levels.

The choice should have been made before sex not after...... or simply put, if you favor abortion in the first nine months, why not after that time?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Anyway, I don't think the abortion issue accounts for all that much of the Obama-hate. It's not even something he talks about remarkably often.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I will respond to this. Today there are many contraceptives on the market that are very effective. Since a intelligent person would plan ahead, there should not be so many abortions.

Like I said, I am for abortion in certain cases, but to just have it on demand, simply because, is irresponsible and reckless. We are talking about life. Some people value dogs, cats, turtles, lives over human life. To simply say it is a choice, is wrong on so many levels.

The choice should have been made before sex not after...... or simply put, if you favor abortion in the first nine months, why not after that time?

Not everybody is inteligent, especially in a Christian country. And yes I can prove beyond a doubt that there is if not a causation definitely a correlation between how religious you are, how likely you are to get an unwanted pregnancy and how likely you are to get an abortion. We keep our children ignorant in this country because we're afraid that if they learn about sex they'll turn into little sluts. Which the rest of the world seems to prove demonstrably false. I don't know and don't want to guess your opinion on sex ed, but yes we should be having kids putting condoms on bananas in class.

We're not really talking about life though. If we were we'd outlaw invitro. If taking one unwanted life is a tragedy what do you call it when you create dozens and pick on and destroy the rest. I assume you like damn near everybody support invitro. If it was a life however, a real life you wouldn't. Can you imagine lining up thirty actual babies and then disposing of twenty nine of them once you'd picked out the "best" one. Of course not, that would be positively monstrous.

Actually most people only really "condone" abortion in the first three months which is when the vast majority of them happen. It's clouding the issue to talk about late term abortions since those are almost exclusively a danger to the mother or a child with birth defects. Just like we shouldn't talk about rape or incest these are rare problems to have.

As for why not after that time? Well because there is a world of difference between an embryo and a baby. One becomes the other but they are not the same thing.

Anyway, I don't think the abortion issue accounts for all that much of the Obama-hate. It's not even something he talks about remarkably often.

I don't even know what his opinion on it is. I assume it's the same as Hillary's. Safe. Legal. Rare.

 

[badbabysitter]

This will be my last post to you, as I do not suffer fools gladly.

But I've had to suffer you and your complete lack of knowledge

To your final statement that you support abortion as a choice, that is not a true answer,

yes, it is

and is something I have found to expect from you.

because I dont think my feelings about what another person can do with thier body should be enshrined in law.... hence I blieve in choice

the choice to get an abortion

or the choice to not get an abortion

You decided what you want to believe and try and fit history to that belief,

except for the part where you have shown absolutely nothing to discredit the things I've mentioned

just because you dont know something, doesnt mean I'm wrong

instead of just admitting you are wrong.

because I have yet to be

Now I asked you a very pointed question, do you support abortion for birth control?

Yes, because it is birth control, dumbass.. by the strictest definition

While abortion to save the woman's life, or in the case of rape, incest, etc can be supported, your callus statement that a child is a choice reeks of Germany 1930's and 40's. They too relegated people to a "choice", deciding that there were some people unfit to live.

ah the immediate jump to comparing things to Hitler.. bravo


an embryo is not a fetus let alone a child... why should something the size of a poppy seed have the same rights as a toddler.. why should something several weeks later with no organs, no skeletal structure be considered the same as a 4 year old... why should something a few weeks later which has only a handful of functioning organs also be considered a child?

science doesnt support your beliefs...simply put

However, let us look at the stats....... we shall use 2011.... the good news is that the abortion rate is dropping, but that is another stat.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/Abortion.htm

"In 2011, 730,322 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2011 was 13.9 abortions per 1,000 women ages 15–44, and the abortion ratio was 219 abortions per 1,000 live births."

So you are telling me you support that many abortions? Most of those were not rape victims, incest victims, or the woman's life was in danger.

you can spout all the stats you want at me.. it still doesnt change that an embryo, or a fetus incapable of literally surviving out side its host...is not a human being

Period.

I support abortion, but most of those women who had those abortions were for "convenience" and I do not support that, not when there are items and ways that can prevent pregnancy.

Then you should support Planned Parenthood.. abortions make up less then 3 per cent of what they do.... they would welcome people making forms of birth control free and available to all

I will agree with you that in previous decades, women were not given a choice about their bodies, but times, and contraceptives, have changed.

and they should still be allowed.. because science simply trumps your morality

 

[badbabysitter]

Like I said, I am for abortion in certain cases, but to just have it on demand, simply because, is irresponsible and reckless. We are talking about life. Some people value dogs, cats, turtles, lives over human life. To simply say it is a choice, is wrong on so many levels.

because a fetus is not a person... jesus man, do you know anything about fetal development?

The choice should have been made before sex not after...... or simply put, if you favor abortion in the first nine months, why not after that time?

ah... you don't , thanks for clearing that up

on what planet is aborting a 9 month old legal

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Anyway, I don't think the abortion issue accounts for all that much of the Obama-hate. It's not even something he talks about remarkably often.

obama is a fuck up, a failure, a asshole, arrogant ... obama isn't worth a dollar

 

[Sean Renaud]

If OBama, who is almost the literal in the flesh incarnation of the American Dream is a failure I want to know what success looks like in Jen's world.

No father growing up? Check
Not born rich? Check
Worked hard in school got into one of the best colleges on the planet? Check
Graduated top of his class in one of the best colleges on the planet? Check
Rose to the highest station on the planet? Check
Became a 1%er? Check.

The only thing he's missing is that he didn't literally climb over broken glass to escape Communist Russia and spend half his time talking about the evils of communism.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

if you were a real American ... and were really in the military then you would be fuming over the obama Iraq disaster

how many men were sent to their death, and there is the obama pissing on their service.

this is why, you are a crack junkie

obama isn't American's dream, obama is a nightmare! obama is evil. Hitler had more morals & ethics than obama

If OBama, who is almost the literal in the flesh incarnation of the American Dream is a failure I want to know what success looks like in Jen's world.

No father growing up? Check
Not born rich? Check
Worked hard in school got into one of the best colleges on the planet? Check
Graduated top of his class in one of the best colleges on the planet? Check
Rose to the highest station on the planet? Check
Became a 1%er? Check.

The only thing he's missing is that he didn't literally climb over broken glass to escape Communist Russia and spend half his time talking about the evils of communism.

how did obama become a 1%'er? by fucking over real American's

this is the perfect example as to how and why you are a fucking scum bag

 

[Sean Renaud]

if you were a real American ... and were really in the military then you would be fuming over the obama Iraq disaster

how many men were sent to their death, and there is the obama pissing on their service.

this is why, you are a crack junkie

obama isn't American's dream, obama is a nightmare! obama is evil. Hitler had more morals & ethics than obama

how did obama become a 1%'er? by fucking over real American's

this is the perfect example as to how and why you are a fucking scum bag

Except the Iraq disaster falls squarely on Bush. The longer we stayed the more of my brothers and sisters were going to be killed and we could have stayed their until the stars grew cold and this would still happen in the end. So I mourn those who died but I blame Obama for not getting them out sooner, not for what happened when we left.

Never touched crack.

Obama is like I said the literal embodiment of the American Dream, you couldn't ask for more. As for Hitler he had more "morals and ethics" than most people ever born. He was an evil, evil man but he believed in his convictions up to the point of sacrificing a lot for them. A lot of people would argue that he lost the war or at least lost it sooner because he was more focused on exterminating Jews than in beating the Allies. Evil as shit but you can't claim that most people would do that.

Obama didn't become a 1%er by fucking over anybody. That's the beauty of it. Not that all of them have to fuck over others to get there but he's there primarily because he wrote a book. He didn't underpay his workers, he didn't cut their benefits. He did it completely on his own worth. It's really spectacular.

This is why we know you're a racist Jenny. You hate Obama for no actual reasons.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

again, you missed the point. What Bush did, can't be undone.

what obama did was piss on the military and hand Iraq over to ISIS

obama is weak and a coward. obama's, and his fraud policy has turned the region into a terrorist heaven

if obama was a real man, a real American, a real leader ... obama would have built up Iraq to shut down ISIS...instead obama puts on a dress and plays with red lipstick

obama fucking destroyed the middle east

Except the Iraq disaster falls squarely on Bush. The longer we stayed the more of my brothers and sisters were going to be killed and we could have stayed their until the stars grew cold and this would still happen in the end. So I mourn those who died but I blame Obama for not getting them out sooner, not for what happened when we left.

Never touched crack.

Obama is like I said the literal embodiment of the American Dream, you couldn't ask for more. As for Hitler he had more "morals and ethics" than most people ever born. He was an evil, evil man but he believed in his convictions up to the point of sacrificing a lot for them. A lot of people would argue that he lost the war or at least lost it sooner because he was more focused on exterminating Jews than in beating the Allies. Evil as shit but you can't claim that most people would do that.

Obama didn't become a 1%er by fucking over anybody. That's the beauty of it. Not that all of them have to fuck over others to get there but he's there primarily because he wrote a book. He didn't underpay his workers, he didn't cut their benefits. He did it completely on his own worth. It's really spectacular.

This is why we know you're a racist Jenny. You hate Obama for no actual reasons.