Why do you hate Obama?

[Sean Renaud]

"You are a racist" has become the generic response to fact based and legitimate criticisms of blacks.

I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. I would vote for him again against any Republican with the possible exception of Sen. Jeff Sessions (R., Ala.).

There are a shit ton of legitimate criticisms of blacks that will not get you called a racist by just about anybody. However if you thought Trayvon vs Zimmerman was a case of self defense you didn't listen to any of the story including Zimmerman's own testamony. If you're stalking me on a rainy night and I attack you I'm the one who's defending themselves.

Also no amount of voting for Obama erases your racism. Just like no amount of I would vote for Ben Carson or Hermain Cain erases other people's racism. Actually considering how terribly, terribly inept Cain was proven to be very quickly I'd argue that claiming you'd vote for him only reinforces that not only are you racist but you're desperately trying to find some way to prove otherwise.

But I've heard you speak at length on IQ and how Jews are superior yadda yadda yadda. So lets not pretend otherwise, please.

 

[The_Trouvere]

There are a shit ton of legitimate criticisms of blacks that will not get you called a racist by just about anybody. However if you thought Trayvon vs Zimmerman was a case of self defense you didn't listen to any of the story including Zimmerman's own testamony. If you're stalking me on a rainy night and I attack you I'm the one who's defending themselves.

Also no amount of voting for Obama erases your racism. Just like no amount of I would vote for Ben Carson or Hermain Cain erases other people's racism. Actually considering how terribly, terribly inept Cain was proven to be very quickly I'd argue that claiming you'd vote for him only reinforces that not only are you racist but you're desperately trying to find some way to prove otherwise.

But I've heard you speak at length on IQ and how Jews are superior yadda yadda yadda. So lets not pretend otherwise, please.

I do not care if anyone calls me a racist or not.

Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman from behind, threw him on the ground, and began to punch him in the face. George Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. Fortunately, that was the verdict of the jury.

I am not Jewish. That does not prevent me from acknowledging that Ashkenazi Jews have the highest IQ average in the world. Their record of achievement and prosperity confirms their racial superiority, and the validity of IQ tests.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I do not care if anyone calls me a racist or not.

Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman from behind, threw him on the ground, and began to punch him in the face. George Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. Fortunately, that was the verdict of the jury.

I am not Jewish. That does not prevent me from acknowledging that Ashkenazi Jews have the highest IQ average in the world. Their record of achievement and prosperity confirms their racial superiority, and the validity of IQ tests.

The problem is once a fight starts all morality goes right out the window. I agree Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. I also believe Trayvon not only had the right but that his right in all fairness should have superceded Zimmerman's. You don't get to start a fight and then bitch about losing.

I didn't say you were a Jew, however those records don't prove shit other than culture and opportunity. Nothing more, nothing less.

And I know you don't mind being called a racist, nor should you. It's what you are. I wish more people had your courage.

 

[KingOrfeo]

And I know you don't mind being called a racist, nor should you. It's what you are. I wish more people had your courage.

I'm guessing The_Trouvere would rather be labeled a "racialist", which is the same thing only more pseudo-highbrow.

Racialism is the view that human races are substantially different from each other and these racial differences strongly determine the abilities and behaviour of individuals and peoples.

Unlike more casual forms of knee-jerk racism, prejudice and bigotry, racialist theories attempt to rationalise racist attitudes into a (somewhat) coherent scientific or political doctrine. Most racialists believe that some hierarchy of races exists, and since most racialists are white supremacists, this usually puts the Caucasian, or "Aryan"[1] race firmly at the top. (When called on this, some recent racialists note Jews or Asians measure higher on IQ therefore they are totally not being racist except for everything else they say.)

The claims always seem to include, somewhere along the way, one that works out to "black people are naturally stupid, so their social position follows unavoidably," because surely nothing else could have possibly caused such a plight. This falls down in that the arbitrary group "people of recent African ancestry" has more genetic variation than does the entire rest of humanity,[2] and claiming they are a genetic grouping defies science.

 

[Ramp1311]

because a fetus is not a person... jesus man, do you know anything about fetal development?

on what planet is aborting a 9 month old legal

______________________________________________________________

So you are against abortion in the 9th month, how about the 8th month, or 7th month, or the 6th month? Where exactly do you draw the line that you are against abortion.

Like I have said, medical science has made huge advances since the 1980's , and contraceptives are much better at preventing pregnancy. If those did not exist I can see you still taking your stand. However just as we evolve, so should our beliefs and views. I have a perfectly normal (straight "A" at Vanderbilt) niece that was born in the 26th week. There are many examples of children "born" early that live normal lives. Right now, children born after 22 to 24 weeks gestation have survived, and medical science is advancing to the point that perhaps babies could be saved at even a younger age.

http://preemies.about.com/od/readersstories/a/World-S-Smallest-Preemies.htm

______________________________________________________________

At the end of the 10th week of pregnancy, your baby is no longer an embryo. It is now a fetus, the stage of development up until birth.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm

______________________________________________________________

Like I said, I am not against abortion, there is a time and a place for it. What I am against is people who refuse to use other forms of birth control and rely just on abortion (and it happens far more than you are willing to admit.) It has become a political issue, and people have thrown common sense out the window.

I am Jewish, and in WW2 98% of my family was exterminated (which explains my stance on big government.) The survivors of the death camps have told me horror stories, not only about Germany, but Russia, during that time. How they devalued human life, and made it simply "tissue", or like I was told on here

"]because a fetus is not a person... jesus man, do you know anything about fetal development?.

I am sorry if you got offended because I used the Nazis, but it just is one of the more well known cases that everybody understands.


And I broke my promise, again, to not post on this thread...... ugh

 

[Sean Renaud]

Aside from condoms (which is no excuse mind you) what percent of people do you honestly think have access to BC and don't use it?

 

[Ramp1311]

Aside from condoms (which is no excuse mind you) what percent of people do you honestly think have access to BC and don't use it?

I do not know. But the fact that most BC is very effective in preventing pregnancies shows that people who have access to it are not using it (or not using it correctly), or that is what the abortion rates are showing.

Like I have said, I am not against abortion, but people need to take responsibility for their actions. If a man had committed murder, was being sentenced by a judge for life in prison, and told the judge he would rather just continue his life as a free man, he would be told "the time to make that choice was before you committed the act".

I could see people standing firm for abortion 50-60 years ago, but like I have pointed out, medical science has made great strides in preventing pregnancy (there is even a morning after pill) that should make the abortion rate be extremely low (it is lowering but not as fast as it should.) That fact along with the ability for medical science to save children born premature, makes it even more important that people take responsibility. There is coming a day that the 10 week old fetus may even be saved. So people need to rethink their positions. Just because something was right and considered appropriate 50 years ago does not make it right and appropriate today.

People want what they want, without thinking of the problems it can cause down the road (or they do not rethink their positions when the evidence shows that they should.) This is also my stand on government.

History has shown time and time again that an enlarged government at some point turns on its population (handouts, welfare, social programs, etc. all cause populations to be slowly enslaved). It will happen again in those social democracies that some here have tried to use to say how wonderful it is.

It always happens....... because power is alluring and you know what they say "power corrupts and absolute power corrupt absolutely." The government that holds power will do anything to maintain that power (hence most social programs)

The founding fathers knew this, and created the Constitution. It limited the power of the federal government, even to the point of putting in the 10th Amendment to have a law capable of stopping it. Sadly, that most important of Amendments has been shredded by both both parties and every branch of the government.

Government is a necessary evil, but it needs to be collared and controlled. One way could be the states pay for their own representation. It could work like this:

The federal government sends money to the states (or the states could raise the money themselves), and then the states decide how much to pay. The representatives would then have to ask their states for raises, for travel expenses, and all the other things they need money for. It would make the representatives more beholden to the people beyond just getting votes.

 

[Sean Renaud]

That's a lot of words you use to say basically that you have no idea how many people both have access to birth control and have been properly educated in it's use. Unfortunately here in the states thanks to the large amount of Christians are people are not well educated when it comes to sex and have a lot of wrong headed ideas. A good first step would be upping the sex education and not allowing parents to opt out.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Race and Logical Fallacies

I'm guessing The_Trouvere would rather be labeled a "racialist", which is the same thing only more pseudo-highbrow.

When someone calls me a racist I like to make it clear what I believe. If this conforms to that person's definition of "racist" then it is praiseworthy to be a racist.

I believe that race is an important biological classification, equivalent to classifying a species of animal by sub species. A person's race can be determined by appearance, DNA, and skeleton. With DNA testing it is even possible to trace a person's ancestry back to specific countries.

The races have evolved during thousands of years in different environments in response to different population pressures. Civilization exerts different population pressures than a Paleolithic existence, so races that have practiced civilization for several thousand years are different from races, like the Negroes, who have been recently introduced.

In a civilized country or a empire intelligent men tend to be prosperous, and to have more children who survive and reproduce than unintelligent men. Also, governments have historically killed criminals. Consequently, civilization breeds a race for intelligence, and against crime.

The biological function of empires is to impose civilization on barbarians. European colonization of sub Saharan Africa ended many centuries too soon.

Of course, racial differences in aptitude and behavior overlap. Although blacks have a rate of violent crime that is seven to eight times the white rate, most blacks are not criminals. Some whites are criminals. Although blacks tend to perform poorly on all the mental aptitude tests however they are designed, some are extremely intelligent. I recently read of a black teenager in England who tested 162 on an IQ test. That gives him two more points than Albert Einstein and Bill Gates.

The existence of intrinsic racial differences has legitimate political implications. Because blacks tend to be significantly less intelligent than whites, their under representation in universities and in jobs requiring intelligence is the natural result of competition. Affirmative action is illegitimate. It discriminates against whites and Asians, especially white and Asian men. It also reduces the effectiveness of organizations that adopt affirmative action policies.

Because blacks, especially black men, have a very high crime rate, a high percentage of them should be put in prison. They should be kept there until they are too old to be dangerous.

Those who argue against what I have written are motivated by what they want to believe, rather than a calm acceptance of unpleasant facts that are not in dispute. They try to suppress the conversation on race they claim to desire. When they cannot suppress the discussion they resort to a number of fallacies.

These fallacies include Ad Hominem,
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

Appeal to Consequences of a Belief,
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-consequences.html

Appeal to Emotion,
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-emotion.html

Appeal to Pity,
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-pity.html

Appeal to Ridicule,
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

Circumstantial Ad Hominem,
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/circumstantial-ad-hominem.html

Guilt By Association,
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html

Personal Attack,
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html

Straw Man,
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

and others.

Arguments against books like The Bell Curve could be used as source material in a college course on logical fallacies.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Clinton Prosperity

Busybody's use of the picture linked to at the bottom of this comment is ironic. During the Clinton administration the median income adjusted for inflation reached heights never before seen in the United States. Since then, there has been economic decline for most Americans.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

The inflation-adjusted income of the median household—smack in the middle of the populace—fell 4.8% between 2000 and 2009, even worse than the 1970s, when median income rose 1.9% despite high unemployment and inflation. Between 2007 and 2009, incomes fell 4.2%.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703440604575495670714069694

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Busybody's use of the picture linked to at the bottom of this comment is ironic. During the Clinton administration the median income adjusted for inflation reached heights never before seen in the United States. Since then, there has been economic decline for most Americans.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

The inflation-adjusted income of the median household—smack in the middle of the populace—fell 4.8% between 2000 and 2009, even worse than the 1970s, when median income rose 1.9% despite high unemployment and inflation. Between 2007 and 2009, incomes fell 4.2%.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703440604575495670714069694

what did 'clinton' due for this prosperity?

the market was a success, due to the free market and survived what the fucking assholes in government tried to do to destroy it.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

stop being a pussy. every time you don't get things your way you and your kind would scream racism when in fact, you are a total fucking retard

I'm guessing The_Trouvere would rather be labeled a "racialist", which is the same thing only more pseudo-highbrow.

 

[KingOrfeo]

When someone calls me a racist I like to make it clear what I believe. If this conforms to that person's definition of "racist" then it is praiseworthy to be a racist.

I believe that race is an important biological classification, equivalent to classifying a species of animal by sub species.

Well, it isn't, and no reputable anthropologist today will say it is. There is more genetic variation among Pan troglodytes chimpanzees than among humans, and there are no subspecies of chimpanzees (Pan paniscus bonobos are a separate species). You're talking pseudoscience and nothing else.

In a civilized country or a empire intelligent men tend to be prosperous, and to have more children who survive and reproduce than unintelligent men. Also, governments have historically killed criminals. Consequently, civilization breeds a race for intelligence, and against crime.

More pseudoscience. What, you think there's no selection pressure for intelligence or social conformity in primitive societies, where stupidity or non-conformity can get you killed much more easily than in civilization?!

 

[NeverEndingMe]

speaking of a sub human...we have the KingofAssTards:

Well, it isn't, and no reputable anthropologist today will say it is. There is more genetic variation among Pan troglodytes chimpanzees than among humans, and there are no subspecies of chimpanzees (Pan paniscus bonobos are a separate species). You're talking pseudoscience and nothing else.



More pseudoscience. What, you think there's no selection pressure for intelligence or social conformity in primitive societies, where stupidity or non-conformity can get you killed much more easily than in civilization?!

 

[The_Trouvere]

what did 'clinton' due for this prosperity?

the market was a success, due to the free market and survived what the fucking assholes in government tried to do to destroy it.

The Wall Street Journal November 6, 2012

Since 1900, the Dow has averaged a 7.8% annual gain under Democratic presidents, compared with a 3% annual gain under Republicans.
http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2012/11/06/what-an-obama-win-may-mean-for-stocks/

The economy has usually performed better under Democratic management. Because you could not finish high school NeverEndingMe I would not expect you to know that. Now you do.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The Wall Street Journal November 6, 2012

Since 1900, the Dow has averaged a 7.8% annual gain under Democratic presidents, compared with a 3% annual gain under Republicans.
http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2012/11/06/what-an-obama-win-may-mean-for-stocks/

The economy has usually performed better under Democratic management. Because you could not finish high school NeverEndingMe I would not expect you to know that. Now you do.

Jen doesn't really care. Her theory at least as far as Clinton goes like this. The tech boom happened in the 90's. Nobody knows off hand what Clinton did to aid this (if infact he did anything) and as a result he was just the person who happened to be there at the time. It would be akin to asking what did Bush do to cause Hurricane Katrina? And the answer would be nothing. He just happened to be president when it happened.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Well, it isn't, and no reputable anthropologist today will say it is. There is more genetic variation among Pan troglodytes chimpanzees than among humans, and there are no subspecies of chimpanzees (Pan paniscus bonobos are a separate species). You're talking pseudoscience and nothing else.

Usually the consensus of the experts is more likely to be right than wrong. Unfortunately, the consensus of anthropologists is coerced, so it cannot be trusted.

Two anthropologists at the University of Utah, Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending, wrote The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution. This argued that agriculture and civilization have both accelerated human evolution. This acceleration happened for two main reasons. First, agriculture and civilization exert different population pressures than hunting and gathering. Second, populations practicing civilization have grown much faster than Paleolithic populations, and usually at their expense. In a large population there will be more beneficial mutations than in a small population.

This is relevant to racial differences because the different races adopted agriculture and civilization at different times.

Fortunately, professors Cochran and Harpending have kept their positions at the University of Utah. Nevertheless, in e-mail conversations with both anthropologists they told me that they had difficulty finding a publisher for their book because it was politically incorrect.

James Watson was not so fortunate. He won the Nobel Prize for his work on DNA. One would expect him to know about genetics. Unfortunately, when he said little could be expected of sub Saharan Africa for genetic reasons he was forced to step down as the Director of Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory (CSHL) on Long Island, New York.

Until it becomes perfectly safe to a career for one to marshal the overwhelming scientific evidence that some races are more adoptable to the requirements of a modern high tech civilization than others, the consensus of the experts cannot be trusted. Instead, trust your eyes, and look at the evidence yourself.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Trusting your eyes would tell you one thing. Opportunity rocks and a lack of it sucks. In this case the two most important factors are the fertility of land, possible domestication of the animals and constant contact with other humans.

 

[The_Trouvere]

More pseudoscience. What, you think there's no selection pressure for intelligence or social conformity in primitive societies, where stupidity or non-conformity can get you killed much more easily than in civilization?!

Intelligence has been important throughout human evolution. That is why our ancestors twenty thousand years ago were more intelligent than their nearest relative, the Chimpanzees.

Nevertheless, civilization places more evolutionary pressure on a race than does hunting and gathering. In a civilization intelligent men tend to become merchants, money lenders, government officials, scribes, and so on. These become more prosperous than men without the requisite intelligence. Consequently throughout history until recently they have been more prolific.

We can see this in populations that retained a Paleolithic way of life into the twentieth century. All of them have low average IQ's. None of them are adjusting well to the demands of civilization.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Trusting your eyes would tell you one thing. Opportunity rocks and a lack of it sucks. In this case the two most important factors are the fertility of land, possible domestication of the animals and constant contact with other humans.

That is the argument Jared Diamond made in his book Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies. His book does explain why civilization began where it did, rather than elsewhere. Horses and donkeys can be domesticated. Zebras cannot be. That is only one example, but it is illustrative.

What Jared Diamond overlooks is that once civilization begins it has different evolutionary pressures than hunting and gathering. Blacks were not tardy in developing agriculture and civilization because they were less intelligent. They tend to be less intelligent because they were tardy in developing agriculture and civilization.

 

[Sean Renaud]

That is the argument Jared Diamond made in his book Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies. His book does explain why civilization began where it did, rather than elsewhere. Horses and donkeys can be domesticated. Zebras cannot be. That is only one example, but it is illustrative.

What Jared Diamond overlooks is that once civilization begins it has different evolutionary pressures than hunting and gathering. Blacks were not tardy in developing agriculture and civilization because they were less intelligent. They tend to be less intelligent because they were tardy in developing agriculture and civilization.

Evolution takes longer than that as a whole. However. If you're correct then on average Arabs should be highly intelligent. How well do they score, how many of your vaunted Nobel Peace Prizes do they have?

 

[badbabysitter]

______________________________________________________________

So you are against abortion in the 9th month, how about the 8th month, or 7th month, or the 6th month? Where exactly do you draw the line that you are against abortion.

I'm guessing I wasnt being clear when I said if a fetus can not survive outside the host, its not a human being

Like I have said, medical science has made huge advances since the 1980's , and contraceptives are much better at preventing pregnancy. If those did not exist I can see you still taking your stand. However just as we evolve, so should our beliefs and views. I have a perfectly normal (straight "A" at Vanderbilt) niece that was born in the 26th week. There are many examples of children "born" early that live normal lives. Right now, children born after 22 to 24 weeks gestation have survived, and medical science is advancing to the point that perhaps babies could be saved at even a younger age.

Just fyi....26 weeks is not 9 months

once a fetus can suruve outside a human host it is a person.. this typically occurs between 19 to 24 weeks ( and even then, its done on a case by case setting).... anything before that and its not a person...simply put

At the end of the 10th week of pregnancy, your baby is no longer an embryo. It is now a fetus, the stage of development up until birth.

still not a person at 10 weeks, physically incapable of survivng outside of the host.. and should not be treated as a person

______________________________________________________________

Like I said, I am not against abortion, there is a time and a place for it. What I am against is people who refuse to use other forms of birth control and rely just on abortion (and it happens far more than you are willing to admit.) It has become a political issue, and people have thrown common sense out the window.

and those people are a very tiny percentage of people.. and once again, if the fetus hasnt dveloped past the 19 to 24 weeks(which may differ per individual)... then its just your feelings being hurt

if it occurs before then... then you're making a stink over a surgical procedure to kill something that isnt even a human being........ so pull up your big boy pants, because it has nothing to do with you

I am Jewish, and in WW2 98% of my family was exterminated (which explains my stance on big government.) The survivors of the death camps have told me horror stories, not only about Germany, but Russia, during that time. How they devalued human life, and made it simply "tissue", or like I was told on here



I am sorry if you got offended because I used the Nazis, but it just is one of the more well known cases that everybody understands.

because someone choosing to get rid of a clump of sells in their body is clearly the same as Auschwitz...that's what you're telling me

and the nazi's were opposed to abortion amongst their own people.. you cant apply Gowdwins law here if they had literally any restrictions on abortion



......

I live in Canada. We have some of the loosest abortion laws in the world

and yet, somehow we have one of the lowest abortion rates in the developed world... much much lower then the US for example...and our abortion rates have been declining for over 15 years now at a rate even faster then other nations where abortion is legal

why do you suppose that is/

simple ; access and education

if you have sex education that emphasizes birth control instead of abstinence you have a smarter populace when it comes birth control

access... with our oh so scary universal healthcare, its not exactly a chore to get reliable safe birth control...our employers arent even allowed to tell us what to do with our reproductive organs, weird huh?

included with acess is actual access.. i dont have to drive hundreds of miles to get birth control, or an abortion, i dont need scientifically incorrect informed consent, if I'm a minor I dont need parental consent


you can bitch all you want about people chosing abortion as the primary form of birth control ( which is such a tiny percentage it almost borders on laughable to be considered a real concern)....or you can avoid this situation entirely if you have an educated populacee

my advice if you want to stop this apparent tidal wave of abortion as primary birth control is to donate generously to Planned Parenthood ...who also feel the same way you do.. and want to provide quality care t those that seek it

 

[badbabysitter]

I do not care if anyone calls me a racist or not.

Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman from behind, threw him on the ground, and began to punch him in the face. George Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. Fortunately, that was the verdict of the jury.

I am not Jewish. That does not prevent me from acknowledging that Ashkenazi Jews have the highest IQ average in the world. Their record of achievement and prosperity confirms their racial superiority, and the validity of IQ tests.

the jew thing again

I showed you already using your test results that your arguement was bunk


Isreal socred lower then Germany

by your own standard Nazi's are superior to Jews

and the same jews you mentioned were also more susceptible to a host of diseases

being more vulnerable makes you inferior, not superior.. just saying

 

[NeverEndingMe]

The Wall Street Journal November 6, 2012

Since 1900, the Dow has averaged a 7.8% annual gain under Democratic presidents, compared with a 3% annual gain under Republicans.
http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2012/11/06/what-an-obama-win-may-mean-for-stocks/

The economy has usually performed better under Democratic management. Because you could not finish high school NeverEndingMe I would not expect you to know that. Now you do.

and retard, what did Clinton do for this?

hello?

anything?

name just one thing?

SeanR will say that by increasing taxes the economy boomed...what fucked up ideas do you have?

 

[Sean Renaud]

No, I will say that paying for schools so you have an educated work force will give you the tools necessary for a tech boom. Then admit that only through taxes can you pay for these schools.