Young Justice/Teen Titans (OOC)

[ChasNicollette]

Star can also stall with Wrath/Superboy. He's always shown as a strength over grace guy so I think a martial artist fighting defensively could hold him off basically until he either fucked up or got exhausted (and fucked up) The big detail being how tough are Superboy's ligaments? With Sloth I assumed (based on the fights I saw him in) that he's not hard to hurt he's hard to put down because of his healing factor. All of the breaks I did however are things people do to themselves all day. I don't know if breaking Superman or Superboy's wrist is an option because they never come up against people who would try that. We know their skin is super tough (and most people have agreed they have some sort of magic aura that extends to anything they are touching) but how that effects a wrist lock is ??? territory.

Superboy's entire physical make-up is functionally indestructible so far as peak human and low to mid superhumans are concerned. Also he has a healing factor of his own. Consider how strong he is; by virtue of Required Secondary Powers that we've already mentioned, his tendons and ligaments and so forth would have to be tough enough to pull off massive superhuman feats like lifting buses and throwing cars without ripping.

Your best bet is to do like Karate Kid would do with Superboy and M'onel/Mon-El in LSH, and use advanced aikido techniques to flip him around, using his strength and speed against him. You wouldn't injure him, but you'd disorient him and piss him off while keeping from landing devastating attacks on the rest of the team.

 

[Sean Renaud]

That was my guess as well, I just wasn't sure HOW tough his joints would be. Human joints are really easy to break, you dont' even really have to try so the scale of regular to Superman is dubious but I wasn't sure if breaking a wrist was even an option.

But yeah, Star can flip him around until he gets tired or fucks up, whichever comes first.

 

[ChasNicollette]

That was my guess as well, I just wasn't sure HOW tough his joints would be. Human joints are really easy to break, you dont' even really have to try so the scale of regular to Superman is dubious but I wasn't sure if breaking a wrist was even an option.

But yeah, Star can flip him around until he gets tired or fucks up, whichever comes first.

If we can convince our characters to engage in a little teamwork, I may have a way I can slow him down.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Also keep in mind Superboy is kept in a chamber bathing him in solar radiation, so he will be at full power when he is released. Superman is considerably less powerful in all my RPs, and at max power Superboy is at, we'll say, roughly 40% of Supes max power, since he is half-human and thus his cells can't hold as much solar energy.

Flipping him around would work, but keep in mind he's also very fast. His anger will make him sloppy, but later on Nightwing will give him martial arts training and calming techniques.

 

[ChasNicollette]

Steel can hit him with red sunlight, either by bathing the room or by focusing it into laserbeams.

It's not kryptonite, but that might eat into his reserves a little.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Oh the assumption was it would suck for Star and people vastly over estimate how much skill matters in a fight. There is a damn good reason for weight classes and SuperBoy is even sloppy is like a Mega Weight to stars light heavy.

 

[ChasNicollette]

Yeah, there's no way we're gonna win this fight, but we can make a fraction of a decent showing before we're used as floor-mops.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Actually, realistically, red sunlight would not weaken a Kryptonian. A red sun emits less radiation, I believe, and thus would not charge their cells very much, but it also would not deplete their power. Our white sun -- which only appears yellow when viewed filtered through our atmosphere -- will eventually become a red giant late in life as it heads towards death. It is also possible Krypton's red giant Rao used to be a white sun in the distant past.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Also keep in mind, if she bathed the room in solar radiation, anyone present without a healing factor would likely develop a horrible radiation burn/sun burn and be at a very high risk for cancer down the road.

 

[ChasNicollette]

Yeah, I was gonna have Steel make a sunburn riff, but honestly the lasers would be the better option.

Red sunlight has come in handy in the comics before, if Superboy starts to metabolize that it'll replace some of the yellow-sun energy stored in his cells and he won't be at maximum strength anymore. Maybe it won't make him vulnerable enough to shoot him with a straight bullet like Ra's al Ghul did to M'onel that time, that was with prolonged exposure, but again--

--just looking to get a couple hits in before we're completely flattened, I think that's a fair request.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Well, the red sunlight wouldn't necessarily replace the existing energy reserve unless he was doing something to deplete it himself. Now what you could do is focus your beams and maybe they hurt him enough to make his healing factor kick in, which uses up energy reserves, and then she bombards him in an attempt to use up his stored power or something. If we had a speedster, he could circle around Superboy to created a vacuum and suck out oxygen. I don't care what the comics say -- even Kryptonians need to breathe, lol.

If you really want to use red sunlight lasers, you could use it in conjunction with plasma attacks to help weaken him. Like she could recalibrate her blasters to emit a combination of plasma and red solar energy, but that means she would have had to have the technology to produce the weaker solar radiation of a red sun within her suit, possible a design her uncle created for his suit to stop Superman one time when he was under the influence of Red Kryptonite. You could also say after that battle, when Superman recovered, he gave John Henry a Kryptonite focusing crystal to use in case he was ever a threat again. Then maybe John Henry passed that crystal on to Nat when he retired. That would give her an excuse to have a green Kryptonite ray.

 

[ChasNicollette]

The plasma cannons and the photon emitters are separate devices, she can already fire both at the same time.

Yeah, Kryptonians need to breathe, but they can hold their breath a long time.

I read "The Science of Superman" cover to cover one holiday season when I worked at Waldenbooks and they had a pretty solid explanation of the Kryptonian binary metabolism and the secondary solar metabolism's response to light emitted by different stages of suns. I just want to make The Kid break a sweat, I don't want to cripple or poison him, that'll hardly win him over to our side.

Superman is John Henry Irons' hero, and J.H. isn't Batman, he's not installing kryptonite "just in case."

But her photon-emitters can produce light from anywhere on the electromagnetic spectrum, "red" sunlight should be just as easy for her to produce as infrared or ultraviolet.

If Superboy flips out at seeing the "S" on Steel's chest, I want her to be able to not die in one hit. Aqualad got some damn fine dance moves in on Superboy in animated!YJ, but our team doesn't have a Kaldur yet. Instead it has Star, and it has Steel. Ultimately he's gonna lay us out. But he's not gonna do it without us kicking and screaming.

 

[The Jeffinator]

But it is precisely because Supes is his hero that he would trust him with Kryptonite .

I still don't think that red sunlight would realistically weaken him unless he's doing something extensive to drain his energy reserves, but I don't want us to hold up the RP with another scientific debate, so I won't fight it, lol. Go ahead and use red sunlight.

 

[Lachiyous]

If we had a speedster, he could circle around Superboy to created a vacuum and suck out oxygen. I don't care what the comics say -- even Kryptonians need to breathe, lol.

*FFFFSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSsssssooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOooooooooooosssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh* You rang??

Hehe.

Kidding, kidding!

 

[The Jeffinator]

LOL hey Lachy . Also, here is a page where people are talking shit about the red sunlight thing too, lol. http://www.comicvine.com/superman/4005-1807/forums/superman-under-a-red-sun-1502887/

 

[ChasNicollette]

But it is precisely because Supes is his hero that he would trust him with Kryptonite .

I still don't think that red sunlight would realistically weaken him unless he's doing something extensive to drain his energy reserves, but I don't want us to hold up the RP with another scientific debate, so I won't fight it, lol. Go ahead and use red sunlight.

Supes might trust him with kryptonite, but I just don't think J.H. would use it. Or hand it to his teenage niece. That suit is dangerous as Hell, but any supervillain with a mad-on for Supes hears that Nat has kryptonite literally up her sleeve, she's a target and then some.

See, that's the thing-- what Star's describing with the aikido flips and so forth might cause him some exertion-- and Steel's plasma cannons-- and, hey, she can use her sonic cannons to cause his superhearing some earache now that I think about it-- and then there's Lucy--

--plus Beast Boy can go ankylosaurus on his ass--

--and Miss Martian's awesome telekinesis--

--he's going to use us like tetherballs, I'm just saying he'll get tireder doing it.

It's difficult to classify this as a scientific debate because we're just interpreting scifi, you're going with what you think is reasonable, and that's totally fine, but I'm also referencing source material I've actively studied whose purpose was to ground this stuff in science, I just feel like that should count for something.

Thank you for handwaving me into being able to do this thing, I'm not ungrateful, and I really don't want to hold things up, but a girl has a preference for her voice to be heard, you know?

 

[The Jeffinator]

I like this guys post:

The red sun light thing has always been an odd "weakness" to me. OK, not always since I didn't understand science like I do now when I was a kid - but since I became aware of things like physics - it's just seemed like a really dumb vulnerability. For starters, "red" suns don't emit any different type of light or radiation to our "yellow" sun. The terms alone aren't even being used correctly. For starters our sun is white - not yellow. And a "red" sun is only "red" in appearance because it's temperature and luminosity is significantly lower than our own sun. Combine their distances from us and how light works and it's no surprise they appear to be red. The reality is though, despite emitting far lower amounts of heat and light, what they do emit is no different in general make-up or radiation (although their solar flares are for more lethal in terms of the various types of rays and fields they emit due to higher concentrations of electromagnetic radiation, x-rays, etc...).



Basically all a "red" sun light should do is provide less energy for his cells to absorb. That's it. They shouldn't counter-act anything or weaken him in any way. Alternatively, given the increased amount so f radiation emitted, it could be argued they should make him MORE powerful, since it's the solar radiation that Kryptonians apparently absorb to achieve their powers. Since a Red Dwarf for example has far higher amounts of this, then it should ultimately have the reverse effect than it does in comics.



I agree with @sanohibiki - the only reason this is still around is legacy - it's basically a tradition that a red sun stops him being super-powered. A caveat to some of the comments here though is the idea of increased gravity on Krypton IIRC is a fairly recent addition. So far I can only think of a single instance where red sunlight was used in N52 and we didn't see how it went down - we just saw the end of the fight in which he was fighting super-powered beings that emit red sunlight and he was still OK, just defeated (he had a plan in advance though to win in the end - it was very Batman like), which suggests it's not the instant de-powering/weakening that they have depicted in the past.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Supes might trust him with kryptonite, but I just don't think J.H. would use it. Or hand it to his teenage niece. That suit is dangerous as Hell, but any supervillain with a mad-on for Supes hears that Nat has kryptonite literally up her sleeve, she's a target and then some.

See, that's the thing-- what Star's describing with the aikido flips and so forth might cause him some exertion-- and Steel's plasma cannons-- and, hey, she can use her sonic cannons to cause his superhearing some earache now that I think about it-- and then there's Lucy--

--plus Beast Boy can go ankylosaurus on his ass--

--and Miss Martian's awesome telekinesis--

--he's going to use us like tetherballs, I'm just saying he'll get tireder doing it.

It's difficult to classify this as a scientific debate because we're just interpreting scifi, you're going with what you think is reasonable, and that's totally fine, but I'm also referencing source material I've actively studied whose purpose was to ground this stuff in science, I just feel like that should count for something.

Thank you for handwaving me into being able to do this thing, I'm not ungrateful, and I really don't want to hold things up, but a girl has a preference for her voice to be heard, you know?

Yep, I know .

 

[ChasNicollette]

On the one hand, that "more radiation" thing gives me pause, and I feel like it has some merit to it, but on the other hand, it might not.

For instance, plants are photosynthetic, but if you give them too much direct sunlight, they parch and die. Similarly, we breathe an oxygenated atmosphere, but we pass out if we try to breathe pure oxygen-- and we're 75% water, as The Tenth Doctor once noted, but we can still drown.

Kryptonians and Daxamites are evolved to thrive in a particular set of conditions-- their bodies absorb solar energy like sponges. It just so happens that being under a white, "yellow" sun is advantageous to them, just like a perfect nutrition regimen and a pollutant-free environment would be to us. It enables them to access latent abilities they probably all had back in their prehistoric times when Rao (or Valor, for Daxamites) was at an earlier phase. Reintroduce the "red" solar conditions, however, and they'll gradually become not-so-fresh-feeling.

And, while we're on the subject, Krypton's higher gravity was one of the very earliest explanations for Clark's strength and single-bound leaps; it's been part of Krypton's mythology for iteration after iteration, though it's been under-emphasized in some versions because it couldn't explain all of Clark's powerset once it was expanded to include actual flight, heat vision, et cetera.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Yeah, I was never a fan of the idea of greater gravity giving someone powers on a lower gravity planet -- the astronauts from Earth didn't get powers on the moon, lol. And if Kryptonians evolved in a planet with high gravity, they would be short and stalky. Just like someone who evolved on a planet with less gravity would be taller, like the Na'vi in Avatar. If the Na'vi came to Earth, they would likely develop arthritis after a few years. If a being that evolved in high gravity came to Earth, they could possibly suffer bone loss over time, plus a slew of other problems with their inner workings.

And we drown in water because our lungs can't extract oxygen from it to enter the blood stream and send to the brain. When the brain is deprived of oxygen it begins failing almost immediately. If you have air in your lungs, you can maybe last a few minutes, but if all the air is replaces by water, you'll be unconscious within 30 seconds.

And one way I look at Kryptonian cells is like they are organic solar batteries. Whether red sunlight would make a solar battery weaker depends entirely on the storage capacity. If it requires constant exposure, then putting it in a dark room with no windows would depower it better than an alternate form of sunlight, like those old calculator that you could turn off by holding your finger over the solar panel. But if the battery can store energy, then removing it from direct solar exposure would be the same as unplugging a cell phone -- it will still work fine until the battery runs out. If you plug in the phone using a lower wattage cord, it won't charge as fast, but it won't make the battery deplete any faster .

 

[Sean Renaud]

If we can convince our characters to engage in a little teamwork, I may have a way I can slow him down.

In fairness Star and Beastboy already figured out team work.

Actually, realistically, red sunlight would not weaken a Kryptonian. A red sun emits less radiation, I believe, and thus would not charge their cells very much, but it also would not deplete their power. Our white sun -- which only appears yellow when viewed filtered through our atmosphere -- will eventually become a red giant late in life as it heads towards death. It is also possible Krypton's red giant Rao used to be a white sun in the distant past.

I'm just saying when I murder you over how realistic it is that red sunlight is different from Zattana's backwards talking that I want you know you earned it.

On a serious note I give permission to anybody moving the story to move Star within reason. He's fully ready to retreat, he thinks he can move Sloth (and probably can power levels adjusted) he can move at damn near super speed to dodge so he can stay as a target and then flash step out.

 

[The Jeffinator]

I hate Zatanna's and Zatara's backwards spells. Everytime I see that I think it's the stupidest way to do magic ever, lol.

 

[The Jeffinator]

As stated in my earlier rant about Harry Potter, I hate any magic that requires any spoken words because then it's like saying the universe understands the words.

 

[ChasNicollette]

I hate Zatanna's and Zatara's backwards spells. Everytime I see that I think it's the stupidest way to do magic ever, lol.

That's funny, I feel the same hatred toward abuse of the acronym "LOL."

You can't tell me that Giovanni Zatara's voice saying that backwards magic in animated!YJ didn't sound cool. Sometimes a thing is about sounding awesome, or in the original instance, looking visually interesting on the comic page.

 

[ChasNicollette]

As stated in my earlier rant about Harry Potter, I hate any magic that requires any spoken words because then it's like saying the universe understands the words.

Maybe that universe does, Jeff.

Maybe perception's affecting the quantum level of that particular universe extends to the macro level.

It certainly doesn't work in this one, and no amount of wishing'll make it so, but sometimes it's cathartic for people to imagine a universe where it odes.