Young Justice/Teen Titans (OOC)

[ChasNicollette]

Life could absolutely evolve under those conditions, it just wouldn't be life as we currently know it.

We have species that can live on the frigid fringes of the upper atmosphere and life that lives in the poisonous plumes of volcanic vents at the very bottom of the deepest sea. Life could exist in those conditions, Hell, life could exist on rogue planets that don't even orbit a sun. But they might be immediately comprehensible to us.

 

[The Jeffinator]

 

[The Jeffinator]

I mean humanoid life with human-like skin. Unless it was made of some different chemical structure or material, those closest to the equator would have darker skin and those farther away would have lighter tones.

 

[ChasNicollette]

Premsuming their pigmentation functions like our melanin, which it might not.

Alternately, we have albinism and melanism occur rarely in species on Earth, other planets could naturally select that one or the other be dominant traits rather than unusual ones.

 

[The Jeffinator]

From Wiki:

Melanocytes insert granules of melanin into specialized cellular vesicles called melanosomes. These are then transferred into the other skin cells of the human epidermis. The melanosomes in each recipient cell accumulate atop the cell nucleus, where they protect the nuclear DNA from mutations caused by the ionizing radiation of the sun's ultraviolet rays. In general, people whose ancestors lived for long periods in the regions of the globe near the equator have larger quantities of eumelanin in their skins. This makes their skins brown or black and protects them against high levels of exposure to the sun, which more frequently result in melanomas in lighter-skinned people.

With humans, exposure to sunlight stimulates the skin to produce vitamin D. Because high levels of cutaneous melanin act as a natural sun screen, dark skin can be a risk factor for vitamin D deficiency in regions of the Earth known as cool temperate zones, i.e., above 36 degrees latitude in the Northern hemisphere and below 36 degrees in the Southern hemisphere. As a result of this, health authorities in Canada and the USA have issued recommendations for people with darker complexions (including people of southern European descent) to consume between 1000-2000 IU (International Units) of vitamin D, daily, autumn through spring.

The most recent scientific evidence indicates that all humans originated in Africa, then populated the rest of the world through successive radiations. It seems likely that the first modern humans had relatively large numbers of eumelanin-producing melanocytes. In accordance, they had darker skin as with the indigenous people of Africa today. As some of these original peoples migrated and settled in areas of Asia and Europe, the selective pressure for eumelanin production decreased in climates where radiation from the sun was less intense. Of the two common gene variants known to be associated with pale human skin, Mc1r does not appear to have undergone positive selection, while SLC24A5 has.

As with peoples having migrated northward, those with light skin migrating toward the equator acclimatize to the much stronger solar radiation. Most people's skin darkens when exposed to UV light, giving them more protection when it is needed. This is the physiological purpose of sun tanning. Dark-skinned people, who produce more skin-protecting eumelanin, have a greater protection against sunburn and the development of melanoma, a potentially deadly form of skin cancer, as well as other health problems related to exposure to strong solar radiation, including the photodegradation of certain vitamins such as riboflavins, carotenoids, tocopherol, and folate.

Melanin in the eyes, in the iris and choroid, helps protect them from ultraviolet and high-frequency visible light; people with gray, blue, and green eyes are more at risk for sun-related eye problems. Further, the ocular lens yellows with age, providing added protection. However, the lens also becomes more rigid with age, losing most of its accommodation — the ability to change shape to focus from far to near — a detriment due probably to protein crosslinking caused by UV exposure.

Recent research suggests that melanin may serve a protective role other than photoprotection. Melanin is able to effectively ligate metal ions through its carboxylate and phenolic hydroxyl groups, in many cases much more efficiently than the powerful chelating ligand ethylenediaminetetraacetate (EDTA). Thus, it may serve to sequester potentially toxic metal ions, protecting the rest of the cell. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that the loss of neuromelanin observed in Parkinson's disease is accompanied by an increase in iron levels in the brain.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Premsuming their pigmentation functions like our melanin, which it might not.

Alternately, we have albinism and melanism occur rarely in species on Earth, other planets could naturally select that one or the other be dominant traits rather than unusual ones.

But I mean in human-like races. The whole skin color equator talk started with me referencing Klingons and Vulcans, and since both have been known to mate with humans, I'm going to assume their skin is similar to ours, lol.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Vulcans and Klingons can exist on Earth with no protective suit, and humans can exist on Vulcan and Qronos with no suit, so I will also assume they evolved along very similar paths.

 

[Sean Renaud]

All planets should have an equator because that is where the sun is most often overhead. That's why living close to the equator is warmer year round and farther away from it you have the seasons. No matter how close or far away, there will be an equator, or a zone that spends the most time facing the sun. Farther north or south the heat is scattered more and thus is less intense on the skin. Plus in places where it snows, a lot of light and heat is reflected back into space. The only way a planet could not have an equator would be if its rotation is so unstable that it turns back and forth randomly, which would likely mean an unstable magnetic field and thus no life.

The equator is the warmest part of the planet and the poles are the coldest. If the planet was heated evenly over it's entire surface, that would mean a greenhouse effect and a thicker atmosphere, which could possibly make it void of life, and any life that did exist there would die on our Earth unless it had a pressurized suit with internal heating because they would have evolved to adapt to extremely warm temperatures and intense atmospheric pressure.

Actually that's not true. You could have a planet with an extreme wobble for example. And again there is much more to temprature than just sun exposure. There is a reason why Europe isn't nearly as cold as New York.

And as someone already pointed out if life can survive on thermal vents then the trick appears to be getting started in the first place, not just hanging on once you get the ball rolling.

As for specifically humanoid life I still find it hilarious that in fiction the entire world seems to be dominated by humanoids. No six limbed planets (there are no veterbrates with six limbs, but that's because we all use the same blue prints. There doesn't seem to be any reason why a planet COULDN'T. Just the one we know of doesn't.) No big bird like bipeds with, like the ancient killer birds of South America, they basically had arms. They weren't smart enough to build things (as far as we know) but they weren't but so far behind primates in potential.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Actually that's not true. You could have a planet with an extreme wobble for example. And again there is much more to temprature than just sun exposure. There is a reason why Europe isn't nearly as cold as New York.

And as someone already pointed out if life can survive on thermal vents then the trick appears to be getting started in the first place, not just hanging on once you get the ball rolling.

As for specifically humanoid life I still find it hilarious that in fiction the entire world seems to be dominated by humanoids. No six limbed planets (there are no veterbrates with six limbs, but that's because we all use the same blue prints. There doesn't seem to be any reason why a planet COULDN'T. Just the one we know of doesn't.) No big bird like bipeds with, like the ancient killer birds of South America, they basically had arms. They weren't smart enough to build things (as far as we know) but they weren't but so far behind primates in potential.

Well yes, I already mentioned something similar to a wobble, but that would likely make it harder for humanoid life to appear the conditions on the surface would be more extreme. And with humanoid life, I look at it like this: Our solar system used to be nothing but a molecular dust cloud. But from that, we got a sun, a planet in the right position -- the Habitable Zone -- to have liquid water, and a magnetic field and atmosphere to help make our world perfect for us to evolve. If we can come from that dust cloud, it is perfectly reasonable to suggest other dust clouds did the same thing or at least something very similar.

 

[Sean Renaud]

There are plenty of other ways, I think as it stands we have no way of knowing.

Anyway I'll let a few more people post since otherwise I'm just going to have Star go "Wrong way!"

 

[The Jeffinator]

LOL okay.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I mean heading towards Wrath is definitely well into the territory where you turn tail while shouting "Wrong way, es no bueno, bad plan, abort, evacuate, escape, fucked we are!"

 

[ChasNicollette]

Hmmm.

Jeff, given that Superboy is a GMPC, do you want to do a more back-and-forth fight style with this one, or can I assume that if she barely manages to absorb his first punch he'll immediately follow up with another?

 

[The Jeffinator]

Until he's a good guy, feel free to control him in battle like the Sins. It's hard to do a back and forth between two player controlled characters in this type of RP. If we were in a chat room RP and on at the same time, that would be different, but in this type, its harder to do that because I have to launch an attack, wait for you to respond to that attack and launch your own attack, then I have to reply my reaction to that attack, etc. It would play out a lot like a D&D battle, which can be done in minutes around a tabletop but could take days just to do a back and forth between Superboy and Steel in the forum.

You can assume he will punch hard and fast and will come at you in berserk mode over and over until someone else draws his attention or you weaken him. If you want to do the red sunlight thing, you could ask the team -- maybe through another psychic link -- to keep him distracted long enough for you to prepare your emitters and then pow. But right about then the Sins have recovered and come running up behind them .

 

[Sean Renaud]

How common knowledge is the red sunlight thing anyway? Or really anything about Supes? I mean we know as the audience but half the time when kryptonite shows up he's shouting "Oh teh noes, Kryptonite!" And I've never been sure if that's for the 5 people in the world who don't know Superman is allergic to green rocks or if Krytonite is a fairly carefully guarded secret known to say a few hundred to a few thousand people on he planet. Which out of 7 billion is statistically no one.

I mean is the sort of thing Steel could come up with on her own, would Star have anyway of knowing or does that qualify under Batman knows, but he knows the same way he has a complete registration roster for the League of Assassins and can identify each one by their fighting style. Including the kids who've never left the compound and were raised in secret on Tamaran.

(Have I mentioned Batman's know everything unless the plot really wants to waste his time pisses me off.)

 

[The Jeffinator]

That's a good point -- how would they know red sunlight was bad for Kryptonians unless someone told them -- how would Superman even know this since we have not brought in anything beyond Earth and Mars yet? He hasn't left Earth since he arrived as a child, so unless Jor-El mentioned it in his holographic messages, not even Supes would know he weakens under a red sun.

As for Kryptonite, I've always hated the idea of it being altered material from the planet -- I was thinking of instead having it be deliberately created to use in the fight against the Kryptonians. I always thought it would be cool to say Krypton's sun Rao actually used to be a white sun and all Kryptonians were super-powered, but Darkseid engineered a material to weaken them, equipped an army of soldiers with this material, and then attacked Krypton. However, this was only the first phase -- while the Kryptonians were weak and distracted, Desaad led a second team in a special vessel designed to withstand close proximity to a star, and using some advanced technology I haven't fully thought out yet -- maybe some sort of matter/anti-matter device -- they alter the physical properties of the white sun, setting off a chain reaction that will cause the star to age rapidly and transform into a red giant within only a few days. Once it does, the increase in size will cause the sun to engulf Krypton, causing the people to scramble to try and save their families as Darkseid and his forces leave, laughing. However, the sun becomes unstable after roughly two days and actually explodes, destroying any Kryptonian who wasn't already off-world.

It sounds almost like Darkseid is Frieza, Superman is Goku, and Zod is Vegeta, hahaha. Speaking of which, a new game just came out called Dragon Ball: XenoVerse. Looks pretty badass, you should check it out.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The red sunlight thing seems to be something that "makes sense" in universe. It seems that once Lex and Bruce found out Supes was solar powered (presumably after a night fight that left him weaker than made sense) they both naturally figured out that Red Sunlight was bad for him. (how one follows the other I don't know but again "in-verse" it makes sense.

I like the Krypton being parts of the planet just because it explains why it doesn't work across dimensions. You're idea isn't bad. And Goku is Superman.
Name starts with :K
comes from dead alien planet
Stronger than human
Saves the world a lot.

The only main difference was the eventual reveal that Goku had been evil for all of. . .six months before he hit his head and he'd been sent her to destroy us instead of keep us safe.

I'm assuming the answer to both my questions is it would be unlikely for anybody not named Dick to know and he might not know just yet?

 

[The Jeffinator]

Well, Lex and Bruce may have come to the red sunlight conclusion on their own, but again, that weakness would only exist in their world, not the real world. In reality red sunlight would in no way weaken a Kryptonian, but assuming "in-verse" the properties of radiation are different than in our world, they may be able to realize it. However, I didn't think about where the stored energy goes -- if red sunlight/less-intense UV radiation replaces all stored power in a Kryptonian with a "watered-down" power, where does the original stored energy go? If red sunlight suddenly makes one lose all stored solar energy, then that energy would need to expel somewhere, likely an outward blast or something, lol.

In the case of Kryptonite exposure, it makes sense that all stored energy is spent on trying to fight off the harmful radiation. But since red sunlight is technically still UV radiation, his body wouldn't necessarily see it as a threat, just a weaker power source. But if we're going with the idea that less-intense UV radiation is harmful to an organic battery that is used to absorbing stronger radiation, then anyone could discover this with a simple lab test -- a drop of blood exposed to a lower amount of UV radiation under a microscope would reveal the weakness. In the case of Steel, her suit's AI could probably detect the compressed solar energy within Superboy's body, after which it could deduce that assaulting him with the lesser UV radiation of a red sun could weaken him.

 

[The Jeffinator]

This guy makes some good points: http://www.juliansanchez.com/2014/10/09/the-krypton-problem/

Also, here's an article about life under a red sun: http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life-exoplanets/life-under-a-red-sun-130314.htm

 

[The Jeffinator]

Here is some info on red giants, as well as details about our sun's transformation into a red giant in about 5 or 6 billion years,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_giant

 

[The Jeffinator]

BTW, if any of you haven't seen it, here is a battle between Goku and Superman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA

 

[ChasNicollette]

John Henry Irons is pretty buddy-buddy with Superman in the comics. At one point, when Emil Hamilton fell off the map (literally!) when The Brainiac 13 Virus transmoded Metropolis, John Henry replaced Hamilton as Superman's chief scientific advisor. I was thinking Kal and JHI would have a similar friendship in this world. Thus, John Henry would know about red sunlight and kryptonite, and if he's included Nat in these scientific discussions, so would she.

That was my thinking, anyway.

 

[The Jeffinator]

But the only way Superman would even know himself would be if Jor-El mentioned it in his recordings, since Supes has thus far never been near a red sun in his adult life. But if we assume he did, we can also assume Kal mentioned it to both JHI and Bats.

 

[ChasNicollette]

But the only way Superman would even know himself would be if Jor-El mentioned it in his recordings, since Supes has thus far never been near a red sun in his adult life. But if we assume he did, we can also assume Kal mentioned it to both JHI and Bats.

I would conjecture that Jor-El would have. Predicting that Kal would be a god to Earthlings "under a yellow sun" is part and parcel with his words of caution and inspiration in many versions of Superman lore. In the John Byrne version of the origin, Superman had the entire history of Krypton stored in his subconscious, and some versions of The Fortress of Solitude have had red solar technology. It's nowhere outside the realm of possibility.

 

[Sean Renaud]

BTW, if any of you haven't seen it, here is a battle between Goku and Superman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA

Fuck Death Battle. They got that one wrong, along with Buu vs Kirby and Toph vs Gaara. I'd think they fucked up on Epyon vs Tigerzord as well. Tigerzord basically got screwed not because of it's stats but because of the difference in capabilities between a cartoon (nearly limitless budget) and a live action show where the fights are carried out by guys in bulky suits.