Young Justice/Teen Titans (OOC)

[Lily_Wight]

This is my preferred battlefield:
http://youtu.be/0MW9Nrg_kZU

 

[Sean Renaud]

That one was so short, and if nobody posts before I'm ready to hit the hay I'll drop a post.

 

[ChasNicollette]

That one was so short, and if nobody posts before I'm ready to hit the hay I'll drop a post.

I'm brewing a Steel post. Should be inbound soon.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Well don't rush yourself I just like to see a post every thirty six hours or so. These things stall out REAL easy. And not because nobody is interested, it starts when someone opens it, doesn't have time to post right then, and then it's not bolded on their subscriptions and they forget about it.

 

[ChasNicollette]

Well don't rush yourself I just like to see a post every thirty six hours or so. These things stall out REAL easy. And not because nobody is interested, it starts when someone opens it, doesn't have time to post right then, and then it's not bolded on their subscriptions and they forget about it.

Oh, I understand, no worries. You weren't rushing me.

I just had started brainstorming a post right after Jeff posted but I was waiting to hear back how he wanted to handle the fight-- I just didn't want us to trip over each others' posts.

 

[The Jeffinator]

This is my preferred battlefield:
http://youtu.be/0MW9Nrg_kZU

I love ERB .

Fuck Death Battle. They got that one wrong, along with Buu vs Kirby and Toph vs Gaara. I'd think they fucked up on Epyon vs Tigerzord as well. Tigerzord basically got screwed not because of it's stats but because of the difference in capabilities between a cartoon (nearly limitless budget) and a live action show where the fights are carried out by guys in bulky suits.

For the longest time, I thought for sure Goku would win in a battle against Superman, but after watching that video, I realized just how OP they made Supes in the comics.

I would conjecture that Jor-El would have. Predicting that Kal would be a god to Earthlings "under a yellow sun" is part and parcel with his words of caution and inspiration in many versions of Superman lore. In the John Byrne version of the origin, Superman had the entire history of Krypton stored in his subconscious, and some versions of The Fortress of Solitude have had red solar technology. It's nowhere outside the realm of possibility.

True, although the DC writers at the time had no idea our sun was actually white and not yellow, and they also had no idea how solar radiation really worked. Plus his powers were incredibly inconsistent and at times completely OP in the comics. Apparently they have updated this some in The New 52, though. But for the sake of the RP, we can say Jor-El warned Kal in his messages about weaker radiation making his energy reserves rapidly deplete themselves. And trust me, it is taking a LOT of effort to fight my OCD on this one, lol. I've been going over and over in my head how I can explain the red sunlight weakness in a way that doesn't make me crazy. I can't really think of anything for Superman, but at least for Superboy, I can say his cells hold a lot less energy since he is half human, and thus he expends his energy faster. Though still, technically, he would lose his power faster with absolutely no sunlight than with red solar radiation. But... *fights OCD* We'll just pretend the red solar radiation has a negative effect, even if I can't rationalize it in my mind.

 

[Sean Renaud]

If you watch enough Death Battle you'll find that one of the biggest advantages you can have is simply having a longer history. Goku has effectively been in a single story, spanning (depending on how you want to count) something like 15 arcs. (I believe there are six in DB and I know there are 9 in DBZ depending on how you count) they allowed GT which gives another 4 arcs. And now there are three movies that count. The 2008 special, Battle of Gods and the soon to be released revival of Frieza. Compared to which Supes has had 1 live action series, seven live action movies. Several cartoons and over seventy years worth of comics. That's just more time for people go crazy.

If there was seventy years of Goku including shit that's damn near fan fiction at this point he would have beaten him to death. Same thing basically happened with Kirby. When you add up all his games and the cartoon and Smash Bros he's pulled off some CRAZY shit. By comparison Buu is in 3 arcs and in the first he accomplished dick.

I'd bet on James Bond beating Jason Bourne to death for the same reason even though every ounce of evidence suggests that Bond would beat Bourne by outsmarting and out maneuvering him, but if they ended up in a fist fight Bourne wouldn't break a sweat. It's not an absolute rule mind you.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Ooooh! I just thought of a way to make the red sunlight weakness work in my head! While normal exposure would only slowly weaken him over many hours, if he was hit with a concentrated blast of red solar radiation, we could say it basically force-feeds his cells with the weaker energy while also forcing out the stronger energy reserves. That energy has to go somewhere, though, so it would likely leak out as an aura or something. In this way, it would be like taking an open jar of very strong tea and placing it under a running faucet -- gradually, the tea in the jar weakens and dilutes, but there is also overflow because the extra liquid has to go somewhere.

So, can Steel release the red solar radiation in the form of an extremely concentrated burst? Although technically concentrated red solar radiation would essentially be the same as white sunlight, as far as amounts of UV and such. Although its mostly red giants that put out less UV, because I think I read that red dwarfs put out more.

Aaaaand now I'm back to being OCD about it. I'm just going to have to suspend my disbelief, get through this mission, and then hopefully I don't have to think about red sunlight for a while, lol.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Also not to turn on your OCD but judging by the one relevant scene from YJ, Superboy might not be AS weak to things as Superman. During Superboy and Robin vs Superman and Batman it was pretty damn clear that while it still hurt Kryptonite effects Superman a lot more than it does Super Boy.

 

[The Jeffinator]

If you watch enough Death Battle you'll find that one of the biggest advantages you can have is simply having a longer history. Goku has effectively been in a single story, spanning (depending on how you want to count) something like 15 arcs. (I believe there are six in DB and I know there are 9 in DBZ depending on how you count) they allowed GT which gives another 4 arcs. And now there are three movies that count. The 2008 special, Battle of Gods and the soon to be released revival of Frieza. Compared to which Supes has had 1 live action series, seven live action movies. Several cartoons and over seventy years worth of comics. That's just more time for people go crazy.

If there was seventy years of Goku including shit that's damn near fan fiction at this point he would have beaten him to death. Same thing basically happened with Kirby. When you add up all his games and the cartoon and Smash Bros he's pulled off some CRAZY shit. By comparison Buu is in 3 arcs and in the first he accomplished dick.

I'd bet on James Bond beating Jason Bourne to death for the same reason even though every ounce of evidence suggests that Bond would beat Bourne by outsmarting and out maneuvering him, but if they ended up in a fist fight Bourne wouldn't break a sweat. It's not an absolute rule mind you.

The anime also adds some things not in the manga for Goku. In DB there was the Emperor Pilaf Saga, First Tournament, Red Ribbon Army, Second Tournament, King Piccolo, and Third Tournament. In DBZ we had Saiyan Saga, Namek, Frieza, Garlic Jr. (not in manga), Trunks, Android, Imperfect Cell, Perfect Cell, Cell Games, Afterlife Tournament, Great Saiyaman, New Tournament/whatever it was called, Majin Buu, Super Buu, Fusion, and Kid Buu. GT had Darkstar Dragon Ball, Baby/Bebi, Super Android 17, and the Dark Dragons, I believe. But GT is total bullshit and was never in the manga.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Also not to turn on your OCD but judging by the one relevant scene from YJ, Superboy might not be AS weak to things as Superman. During Superboy and Robin vs Superman and Batman it was pretty damn clear that while it still hurt Kryptonite effects Superman a lot more than it does Super Boy.

Well yeah, because Superboy is only half Kryptonian.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The anime also adds some things not in the manga for Goku. In DB there was the Emperor Pilaf Saga, First Tournament, Red Ribbon Army, Second Tournament, King Piccolo, and Third Tournament. In DBZ we had Saiyan Saga, Namek, Frieza, Garlic Jr. (not in manga), Trunks, Android, Imperfect Cell, Perfect Cell, Cell Games, Afterlife Tournament, Great Saiyaman, New Tournament/whatever it was called, Majin Buu, Super Buu, Fusion, and Kid Buu. GT had Darkstar Dragon Ball, Baby/Bebi, Super Android 17, and the Dark Dragons, I believe. But GT is total bullshit and was never in the manga.

The anime is considered fully cannon by MOST people. Just not the movies. Most of us never read the manga, hell most of us had never heard the word Manga until after DBZ was completed in the US.

GT is bullshit because it sucks, not because it wasn't in the Manga. And worse it look SO good on paper. Every concept was pretty damn brilliant. Just. . .seriously how do you execute such a good plan so poorly?

Well yeah, because Superboy is only half Kryptonian.

I agree it makes perfect sense. Just. . .it's occuring to me that stuff that they might try because it would put down Supes might have less, or in some cases no effect.

 

[The Jeffinator]

By not being in the manga I mean series creator Akira Toriyama did not do GT beyond some character designs. His manga was just called "Dragon Ball" and ran from 1984 to 1995 or 96. It started as a comedy series and evolved into a martial arts one, and ended with the Buu saga. But the animation company wasn't willing to let it end gracefully, so they created GT without input from Toriyama.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Battle of Gods is considered canon, though, because the project was helmed by Toriyama. BTW, here is a wiki page on the manga: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_(manga)

 

[Sean Renaud]

In fairness you can tell how bored Akira is in the Buu Saga. I'm not defending GT other than it looks good on paper. Baby (what if someone who still had a tail could go Super Saiyan and did it in Great Ape form!?) , Super 17 (what if Gero weren't a moron and built an infinite energy android who could still absorb energy?) and Dark Dragons (Elder Kai had some reason for being upset about the Dragon Balls right? Also these things have SOME draw back right. Cus otherwise death means nothing.)

On paper it looks fantastic. It just falls on it's face. As a wrestling match it reminds me of Lesnar vs Goldberg. Both were quitting the industry and as a result neither one gave a shit and it was terrible. But on paper Lesnar vs Goldberg should have been a match for the ages. The kind of thing that twenty years from now I'd show my kids and be like "See here sonny, that's how it's done."

Still my point is that most people accept everything up to Buu as Cannon. With questions on DB. The shift from comedy to "martial arts" (really it's more accurate to call it Shonen) changed shit. In DB Goku went to the moon, in DBZ it's a major story point that he can't breathe in space.

 

[The Jeffinator]

Goku went to the Moon in DB? I don't remember that, lol. A couple years back I downloaded the entire DB series and watched it beginning to end, but I don't recall him ever going to the Moon. Unless.... wait a sec, now I'm remembering something... Was that the episode with King Carrot or whatever his name was?

 

[The Jeffinator]

Oh, and Vegeta said the legendary Super Saiyan from the distant past could only transform while in Oozaru form, which is one of the reasons he was so surprised that Goku did it in normal form.

 

[The Jeffinator]

And Buu was the best saga. There was so much creativity in there, including the various forms of Buu and the fusions. In the manga, that arc ran on for nearly a hundred chapters, so you can see he put a lot of time and effort into it. The anime made it seem even longer with the enormous amount of filler content they used.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Oh, and Vegeta said the legendary Super Saiyan from the distant past could only transform while in Oozaru form, which is one of the reasons he was so surprised that Goku did it in normal form.

Vegeta never actually STATES that, that's just how he "imagines" it. But he does state that the Super Saiyan is a power you can't control, Frieza (not a Saiyan) kinda backs that there is a power level you can't control. Goku's personality barely changes when he goes Super. He certainly didn't blow up the planet he was on.

And Buu was the best saga. There was so much creativity in there, including the various forms of Buu and the fusions. In the manga, that arc ran on for nearly a hundred chapters, so you can see he put a lot of time and effort into it. The anime made it seem even longer with the enormous amount of filler content they used.

I have read the Manga, i still find the Buu Saga terrible. Gotten and Trunks make no sense on so many levels. First, Super Saiyan little kids? Then Gohan and Vegeta never sensed their power levels before? It's heavily implied they spared like that. The entire Gohan Videl thing. Goku has to be the main character despite a HUGE passing of the torch. Buu being a rehash of Cell in so many ways. Bleh. That saga's only up point is Vegeta terrifying Buu who is literally too stupid to be afraid of anything.

 

[The Jeffinator]

One of my favorite parts is the battle between Super Buu and Vegito/Vegetto/what-the-fuck-ever-depending-on-the-version. And I thoroughly enjoy Buu's reaction when he realizes being trapped in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber/Room of Spirit and Time means he can never have chocolate again. That was hilarious.

 

[Sean Renaud]

That's not Vegetto, that's Gottenks.

 

[Lily_Wight]

For the longest time, I thought for sure Goku would win in a battle against Superman, but after watching that video, I realized just how OP they made Supes in the comics.

My thoughts exactly.

I really enjoyed DB. Dbz broke from power creep once goku learn kaioken.

The fusion dance and the earring just made it rediculous.

These techniques change the strength of those involved by orders of magnitude. Even so, they don't die instantly, to an opponent against whom these measures are necessary, before they can enact them.

 

[Sean Renaud]

My thoughts exactly.

I really enjoyed DB. Dbz broke from power creep once goku learn kaioken.

The fusion dance and the earring just made it rediculous.

These techniques change the strength of those involved by orders of magnitude. Even so, they don't die instantly, to an opponent against whom these measures are necessary, before they can enact them.

I've a long standing theory that a lot of the power level stuff is wildly inaccurate and the characters themselves don't entirely understand what they are doing aside from blow shit up. Think of it like a Roman with a drone. He understands if he sees you through this picture box and pushes the red buttonhe unleashes the power of one thousand suns. Then he gets a bigger one and it's the power of every star in the sky. But it's his lack of perspective in play here.

 

[Lily_Wight]

I've a long standing theory that a lot of the power level stuff is wildly inaccurate and the characters themselves don't entirely understand what they are doing aside from blow shit up. Think of it like a Roman with a drone. He understands if he sees you through this picture box and pushes the red buttonhe unleashes the power of one thousand suns. Then he gets a bigger one and it's the power of every star in the sky. But it's his lack of perspective in play here.

It's a pleasant theory, but these people aren't finding anachronistic power on the ground. They are getting it from gods and aliens and gurus. Though, you could make a pretty convincing supercut of people saying "impossible!"

 

[Sean Renaud]

It's a pleasant theory, but these people aren't finding anachronistic power on the ground. They are getting it from gods and aliens and gurus. Though, you could make a pretty convincing supercut of people saying "impossible!"

It's a little more complicated than that. For starters in DBZ God is a rank, not a power level. Kami was God until Picollo absorbed him and Dende IS God now. King Kai is basically Super God and Nappa could kick his ass.