2009 Survivor Poetry Challenge: Discussion and Announcements

[UnderYourSpell]

I uploaded a PDF file if anyone wants to print it out and keep a checklist

Poetry Survivor Checklist​

damn it, I could have written a poem in this time! y'all wait for me!

Drat I printed this off and all I got was the sheet with no words on it!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Have I filled in my score card correctly please?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Have I filled in my score card correctly please?

You just forgot to add the total points at the bottom, but other than that, you got it. I edited it to correct that and to include links to the poems.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I wondered about that and thanks very much

 

[annaswirls]

Drat I printed this off and all I got was the sheet with no words on it!

hmmm it worked for me. I will fix it this afternoon

 

[Angeline]

Have I got it right?

Ok, I have questions that are likely dumb questions and will show me to be a not careful reader. BUT. So I pick a form and a trigger and write my poem. And then I submit it, yes? And then when the poem is posted, I can mark off the form and trigger on my scorecare, yes? And once I do 50 forms + unique triggers and free verses + unique triggers, I am free to write whatever combos I want or use my own triggers, right? And I get extra points for the bonuses I write in the alloted time, yes?

Bear with me. I'm a n00b.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Ok, I have questions that are likely dumb questions and will show me to be a not careful reader. BUT. So I pick a form and a trigger and write my poem. And then I submit it, yes? And then when the poem is posted, I can mark off the form and trigger on my scorecare, yes?

All good up to here.

And once I do 50 forms + unique triggers and free verses + unique triggers, I am free to write whatever combos I want or use my own triggers, right?

No. Once you have those 50 poems (50 triggers / 25 forms + 25 whatevers), you can start over, using the same 50 triggers and 25 forms. You just can't use the same trigger to write the same form. Need to mix it up.

And I get extra points for the bonuses I write in the alloted time, yes?

The bonuses are only for the specific bonus challenges that will be posted once every four weeks.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I tried to do a Tanka with the trigger Cento 1 but that's got to have 7 lines ......grumble grouse

 

[annaswirls]

Ok, I have questions that are likely dumb questions and will show me to be a not careful reader. BUT. So I pick a form and a trigger and write my poem. And then I submit it, yes? And then when the poem is posted, I can mark off the form and trigger on my scorecare, yes? And once I do 50 forms + unique triggers and free verses + unique triggers, I am free to write whatever combos I want or use my own triggers, right? And I get extra points for the bonuses I write in the alloted time, yes?

Bear with me. I'm a n00b.

there is no true free choice in this. You must must must use a trigger every time. (grumble grumble)

Maybe one of the bonus rounds can let us pick our own trigger

Or maybe as a little gift when you finish all 50, you can pick your own trigger? please???

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Question About Unsuccessful Attempts

Okay, I think it is better to talk about how failed attempts should be handled so that if the need arises, a process is deemed acceptable for challenge and correction of a submitted poem.

First, if a poem is posted that is scored as a poem of a particular form, but fails to uphold the standards for that form, how should that be addressed? Is someone handling quality control or is it up to all the poets to question the poem's standards?

Personally, if I submitted a poem for a form and got something wrong, I would want to know. My whole purpose for doing this is to learn more forms and practice them. Some people may feel the same way, but I don't want to try to speak for everyone here. Perhaps some people would prefer a notification by PM. I wouldn't mind a question of form here so that everyone could learn from it. In learning new forms, I almost expect mistakes. I try to be extra careful whenever writing a form poem. I recheck it according to the guidelines, but working closely with something makes me almost blind to certain errors sometimes.

Also, if a poem fails to meet the standard, it would be much easier to know soon after it posts than say, mid-December. Not just because it may affect the score, but because I could have learned about the form and made better use of it throughout the year. You know what I mean?

I think everyone is entering this challenge in good faith to stretch our skills and learn. I hope that attitude holds true throughout the year.

Any thoughts?

 

[Liar]

I am now, officially, a slow starter.

As in I intend to start. Soonish. I just got to get past this deadline first. And maybe the next. But then I'm onnit. I hope.

 

[Angeline]

there is no true free choice in this. You must must must use a trigger every time. (grumble grumble)

Maybe one of the bonus rounds can let us pick our own trigger

Or maybe as a little gift when you finish all 50, you can pick your own trigger? please???

I like the gift idea but that Lauren is a hard taskmaster, so I'm expecting no gimmees!

Otoh at least she put something about jazz in there so if I figure right I will have several opportunities to stay in my comfort zone. Writing about jazz is the equivalent of a Linus blanket for me. It is Linus who has the blankie, right?

Okay, I think it is better to talk about how failed attempts should be handled so that if the need arises, a process is deemed acceptable for challenge and correction of a submitted poem.

First, if a poem is posted that is scored as a poem of a particular form, but fails to uphold the standards for that form, how should that be addressed? Is someone handling quality control or is it up to all the poets to question the poem's standards?

Personally, if I submitted a poem for a form and got something wrong, I would want to know. My whole purpose for doing this is to learn more forms and practice them. Some people may feel the same way, but I don't want to try to speak for everyone here. Perhaps some people would prefer a notification by PM. I wouldn't mind a question of form here so that everyone could learn from it. In learning new forms, I almost expect mistakes. I try to be extra careful whenever writing a form poem. I recheck it according to the guidelines, but working closely with something makes me almost blind to certain errors sometimes.

Also, if a poem fails to meet the standard, it would be much easier to know soon after it posts than say, mid-December. Not just because it may affect the score, but because I could have learned about the form and made better use of it throughout the year. You know what I mean?

I think everyone is entering this challenge in good faith to stretch our skills and learn. I hope that attitude holds true throughout the year.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, I basically agree with all of what you say, LadyS. My expectation is that most people are doing this more to push themselves to write and learn than necessarily to win anything. So trying to somehow beat the system is rather self-defeating imo. Still I guess someone could join and attempt to not do it right assuming that the oversight won't be careful enough to catch everything. But I know Lauren pretty well, have for a long time, and it is very difficult to get anything past her lol. She can respond but my guess is that she will be reading through a lot of our poetry and won't miss much.

I do hope though that we have a little leeway to not adhere to a form's rules absolutely 100 percent. For example, if I write something in iambic pentameter and there are, say, two words that aren't stressed right, I hope the poem will still be acceptable. I understand that if it says write in meter x and I totally blow it off, I shouldn't be able to score it as meeting the form. But a few tiny things should be ok. I hope. I also have wondered about the trigger words. For example, if I'm supposed to use the word "photography" and I use "photo" or "photograph," will that be a problem? I hope not, but if so well I'll deal. I may piss and moan a little but I'll do it.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Okay, I think it is better to talk about how failed attempts should be handled so that if the need arises, a process is deemed acceptable for challenge and correction of a submitted poem.

First, if a poem is posted that is scored as a poem of a particular form, but fails to uphold the standards for that form, how should that be addressed? Is someone handling quality control or is it up to all the poets to question the poem's standards?

Personally, if I submitted a poem for a form and got something wrong, I would want to know. My whole purpose for doing this is to learn more forms and practice them. Some people may feel the same way, but I don't want to try to speak for everyone here. Perhaps some people would prefer a notification by PM. I wouldn't mind a question of form here so that everyone could learn from it. In learning new forms, I almost expect mistakes. I try to be extra careful whenever writing a form poem. I recheck it according to the guidelines, but working closely with something makes me almost blind to certain errors sometimes.

Also, if a poem fails to meet the standard, it would be much easier to know soon after it posts than say, mid-December. Not just because it may affect the score, but because I could have learned about the form and made better use of it throughout the year. You know what I mean?

I think everyone is entering this challenge in good faith to stretch our skills and learn. I hope that attitude holds true throughout the year.

Any thoughts?

I completely agree = Earlier notification of an error is better. I don't believe that anybody would purposely "cheat" because it wouldn't make any sense, so letting the person know on the forum would seem the best way because if one person was confused, then there are probably others as well.

As to "Who" should be "policing" this? I think EVERYBODY should. There are just too many poems flying around for the mods to keep track of in a timely fashion. I DO think that Lauren and/or the other mods should have the final say simply so that there is ONE final authority.

My STRONGEST desire would be to prevent the kind of ruckus that occurred in the Prose Survivor Challenge. If, correction - WHEN, I screw up in January, I want to know that I did in January, not the end of December so I can fix the problem and hopefully not repeat it in April.

The alternative is that if you make an error, you are summarily taken out back of the forum and shot. The only down side to that is I don't think anyone would be left come March...

 

[UnderYourSpell]

If we do muck it up can we just not count that one and try that form again for it to count? I've already mucked up lol but I caught it quick enough to delete it

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

As to "Who" should be "policing" this? I think EVERYBODY should. There are just too many poems flying around for the mods to keep track of in a timely fashion. I DO think that Lauren and/or the other mods should have the final say simply so that there is ONE final authority.

And, I think that many poets have strengths in some forms and would more easily recognize an error in one form as opposed to another form with which they are less familiar. If someone screws up a villanelle, I reserve the right to pull out the whip. LOL Seriously though, I've had some villanelles that have failed miserably, so even though I am now intimately familiar with the form, I can empathize with those who struggle with it.

The alternative is that if you make an error, you are summarily taken out back of the forum and shot. The only down side to that is I don't think anyone would be left come March...

And, I think that emphasizes the point that we are all learning.. at least I think we are all learning... not sure if there are any poets here who have mastered every form on the list. If so, go to hell!

LOL Just kidding! kinda.. well, now I am but when I'm struggling over a particular form, I may mutter hateful words your way.

 

[Safe_Bet]

...If someone screws up a villanelle, I reserve the right to pull out the whip...

You DO realize that now Eve is going to screw up on purpose, don't you?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Has Eve joined?
And no way am I opening my big mouth about anyone's attempts even though I have seen one I wondered about

 

[Angeline]

Maybe we should put together a group volunteers to check over different forms. I know Elizabethan sonnets and terzanelles like LadyS knows villanelles. I can write them anytime and can recognize when they aren't correct. I'd be much less comfortable trying to evaluate some of the other forms, especially the ones that require a metric I haven't written much...or ever. But I imagine that between all of us we should have at least some expertise in most of the forms.

And if someone doesn't like being told they didn't get it right (and yeah I agree with S_B that that info needs to be timely), someone should have the final say that the poem does or doesn't meet the rules, just to get it resolved quickly. However, I do not think that person should be me (even though I'm a moderator) or anyone else who is a participant. Personally I think Lauren should do it because she isn't participating and she's a moderator. Just my two cents.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

You DO realize that now Eve is going to screw up on purpose, don't you?

LOL

I guess for her punishment I should show her the whip then put it away without using it...

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Maybe we should put together a group volunteers to check over different forms. I know Elizabethan sonnets and terzanelles like LadyS knows villanelles. I can write them anytime and can recognize when they aren't correct. I'd be much less comfortable trying to evaluate some of the other forms, especially the ones that require a metric I haven't written much...or ever. But I imagine that between all of us we should have at least some expertise in most of the forms.

And if someone doesn't like being told they didn't get it right (and yeah I agree with S_B that that info needs to be timely), someone should have the final say that the poem does or doesn't meet the rules, just to get it resolved quickly. However, I do not think that person should be me (even though I'm a moderator) or anyone else who is a participant. Personally I think Lauren should do it because she isn't participating and she's a moderator. Just my two cents.

Don't you worry girl I will be panicking in both your directions when I get to those! I've just done a roundelay and a ballad and hopinggggggg they're ok someone yell at me please if they are not! Still waiting for someone to tell me if the one I posted in the workshop is a haiku or not

 

[Angeline]

Has Eve joined?
And no way am I opening my big mouth about anyone's attempts even though I have seen one I wondered about

I don't believe so. And I don't know if she will (though I'll love it if she does).

Don't you worry girl I will be panicking in both your directions when I get to those! I've just done a roundelay and a ballad and hopinggggggg they're ok someone yell at me please if they are not! Still waiting for someone to tell me if the one I posted in the workshop is a haiku or not

If the haiku is 5/7/5 syllables and about nature, then it should be fine. Haiku is far from my strong suit and I know people argue that even the 5/7/5 thing isn't applicable because that's an English-based convention and the form is Asian (I think that's correct), but I'm pretty sure if you did those two things, you met the baseline requirements.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I don't believe so. And I don't know if she will (though I'll love it if she does).



If the haiku is 5/7/5 syllables and about nature, then it should be fine. Haiku is far from my strong suit and I know people argue that even the 5/7/5 thing isn't applicable because that's an English-based convention and the form is Asian (I think that's correct), but I'm pretty sure if you did those two things, you met the baseline requirements.

I've got a conflict of opnions over there !!

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

I don't believe so. And I don't know if she will (though I'll love it if she does).



If the haiku is 5/7/5 syllables and about nature, then it should be fine. Haiku is far from my strong suit and I know people argue that even the 5/7/5 thing isn't applicable because that's an English-based convention and the form is Asian (I think that's correct), but I'm pretty sure if you did those two things, you met the baseline requirements.

jthserra wrote an excellent article on haiku--
What is Haiku?

In it, jthserra comments on the whole 5-7-5 misconception, how haiku should be like a snapshot capturing a single moment, and other valuable advice.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Damn Ladies! Nice job spreading the coversation over multiple threads!

 

[Angeline]

I've got a conflict of opnions over there !!

You may want to check this out.

What is Haiku by jthserra. It's comprehensive and clarifies a lot about how to write haiku. And if you want to explore further, he has a whole "More on Haiku" series on his submissions page.