2009 Survivor Poetry Challenge: Workshop

[annaswirls]

I think it's beautiful. I count eight beats to each line though I didn't check the stresses (but I often mishear them and I wouldn't sweat that anyway). The repetitions are right. There are a few couplets that can be read either as enjambed or not, so I think that's fine. But overall I think it's beautiful because I think I understand it.

Ah! I thought the enjambment rule was only between two separate couplets, not among the two lines of each one. I will go check them and make sure that it is clear. Thanks Ange and Champ! You rock!

 

[annaswirls]

Thanks Champ, after my blip I came back and worked twice as hard ... I'm even halfway through the Sestina. It's odd though that I can't hear the rhythm because I am a pretty good singer, perhaps it's all in what I have and haven't been taught and I don't think you can teach that through words alone it has to be done aurally

I wrote part of my ghazal while rocking with the baby on the porch swing.... I was trying to talk to him in iambic pentameter--- swinging and patting his little bottom....

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I've just read that if my pantoum can be sung to Hanandez hideaway' it's ok ........ I think I'm going mad here or anyone listening to me would!

 

[annaswirls]

I've just read that if my pantoum can be sung to Hanandez hideaway' it's ok ........ I think I'm going mad here or anyone listening to me would!

ha! You should totally sing it and re-submit it as your AUDIO poem!!!!!

 

[annaswirls]

12. Roundelay (Dryden's)

12. Roundelay (Dryden's)
Set poetry form invented by John Dryden that is 24 lines in length--four sestets--and turns on only two rhymes. Except for the first and second lines of stanza one, and the third and fourth lines of stanza four, all the rest of the lines in the poem are repeated elsewhere, in a particular order: abA1B1A2B2 A1B1A3B3A2B2 A3B3A4B4A2B2 A4B4abA2B2. The two middle lines of each stanza become the first two lines of the following stanza, and the last two lines of each stanza are always the same.

I have a thing with "always the same" and was wondering if this was okay. I played around with the repeating lines to try to make it more interesting. If necessary, I can keep them uniform.

This was a fun one to write! Fairy Tale re-deux-- Bluebeard

Bluebeard had left his wives before, [a]
And darling, in freedom you have left me
You offered your all, but I needed more [a1]
Cat claws scratch in curiosity [b1]
If you didn’t want me to open the door [a2]
Why’d you offer the forbidden key? [b2]

You offered it all, but I wanted more [a1]
Cat claws scratch in curiosity [b1]
How many lovers have you lost before? [a3]
Severed bands of disloyalty?[b3]
If you didn’t want us to open the door [a2]
Why’d give us the forbidden key? [b2]

How many lovers have you lost before? [a3]
Severed bands of disloyalty? [b3]
Dish break anger, threats of divorce [a4]
Brothers, sisters, will you rescue me? [b4]
If you didn't want me to open the door [a2]
Why did you cut me a master key? [b2]

Dish break anger, threats of divorce [a4]
Brothers, sisters, will you rescue me?
Sweet love, I have always been a whore[a]
Isn’t that why you came to me?
Don’t want me to open the door? [a2]
Then don’t give me the fucking key! [b2]

 

[annaswirls]

10. Pantoum

10. Pantoum
Malayan stanza form of interlocking poetry composed of quatrain stanzas, with 4 stanzas in length. The meter is usually iambic tetrameter or pentameter. The second and fourth lines of each stanza become the first and third lines of the following stanza. The second and fourth lines of the last stanza are the same as the third and first lines of the first stanza. A simple abab rhyme scheme is common, but optional.


QUESTION:
"The meter is USUALLY iambic tetrameter or pentameter"
" A simple abab rhyme scheme is common, but optional."

So where does that leave us for the challenge? Do I need to stick to a certain meter or can it be loose? Do I need to rhyme or focus most on the repetition?

Thanks so much!
I am thinking of doing this one as a Cento, but it might be hard to find other poet's work that is in the right meter?

 

[annaswirls]

I think it's beautiful. I count eight beats to each line though I didn't check the stresses (but I often mishear them and I wouldn't sweat that anyway). The repetitions are right. There are a few couplets that can be read either as enjambed or not, so I think that's fine. But overall I think it's beautiful because I think I understand it.

thank you Ange... for taking the time to read and comment, I know you are tres busy right now!

Have you started melting yet?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

10. Pantoum

QUESTION:
"The meter is USUALLY iambic tetrameter or pentameter"
" A simple abab rhyme scheme is common, but optional."

So where does that leave us for the challenge? Do I need to stick to a certain meter or can it be loose? Do I need to rhyme or focus most on the repetition?

The defining characteristic of the pantoum is the repetition pattern. Meter and rhyme can be looser.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

12. Roundelay (Dryden's)

I have a thing with "always the same" and was wondering if this was okay. I played around with the repeating lines to try to make it more interesting. If necessary, I can keep them uniform.

This was a fun one to write!

It does sound much more fun this way. LOL. The spirit of roundelay is definitely there, and since this does make the poem better, I say it's good.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

12. Roundelay (Dryden's)
Set poetry form invented by John Dryden that is 24 lines in length--four sestets--and turns on only two rhymes. Except for the first and second lines of stanza one, and the third and fourth lines of stanza four, all the rest of the lines in the poem are repeated elsewhere, in a particular order: abA1B1A2B2 A1B1A3B3A2B2 A3B3A4B4A2B2 A4B4abA2B2. The two middle lines of each stanza become the first two lines of the following stanza, and the last two lines of each stanza are always the same.

I have a thing with "always the same" and was wondering if this was okay. I played around with the repeating lines to try to make it more interesting. If necessary, I can keep them uniform.

This was a fun one to write! Fairy Tale re-deux-- Bluebeard

Bluebeard had left his wives before, [a]
And darling, in freedom you have left me
You offered your all, but I needed more [a1]
Cat claws scratch in curiosity [b1]
If you didn’t want me to open the door [a2]
Why’d you offer the forbidden key? [b2]

You offered it all, but I wanted more [a1]
Cat claws scratch in curiosity [b1]
How many lovers have you lost before? [a3]
Severed bands of disloyalty?[b3]
If you didn’t want us to open the door [a2]
Why’d give us the forbidden key? [b2]

How many lovers have you lost before? [a3]
Severed bands of disloyalty? [b3]
Dish break anger, threats of divorce [a4]
Brothers, sisters, will you rescue me? [b4]
If you didn't want me to open the door [a2]
Why did you cut me a master key? [b2]

Dish break anger, threats of divorce [a4]
Brothers, sisters, will you rescue me?
Sweet love, I have always been a whore[a]
Isn’t that why you came to me?
Don’t want me to open the door? [a2]
Then don’t give me the fucking key! [b2]

Rofllllllllllll I like it!

10. Pantoum
Malayan stanza form of interlocking poetry composed of quatrain stanzas, with 4 stanzas in length. The meter is usually iambic tetrameter or pentameter. The second and fourth lines of each stanza become the first and third lines of the following stanza. The second and fourth lines of the last stanza are the same as the third and first lines of the first stanza. A simple abab rhyme scheme is common, but optional.


QUESTION:
"The meter is USUALLY iambic tetrameter or pentameter"
" A simple abab rhyme scheme is common, but optional."

So where does that leave us for the challenge? Do I need to stick to a certain meter or can it be loose? Do I need to rhyme or focus most on the repetition?

Thanks so much!
I am thinking of doing this one as a Cento, but it might be hard to find other poet's work that is in the right meter?

All together now.............

Just knock three times and whisper low
That you and I were sent by Joe
Then strike a match and you will know
That you're in Hernando's Hideaway...OLE

 

[annaswirls]

It does sound much more fun this way. LOL. The spirit of roundelay is definitely there, and since this does make the poem better, I say it's good.

Thanks muchly! I will polish and submit.

 

[annaswirls]

Rofllllllllllll I like it!

thanks I am learning so much during this challenge! I spent all night reading fairy tales I never heard of until I found one that inspired me. I never knew the Bluebeard story.... all I could think was what a dumb fuck giving her the key. It is like he WANTED to catch them to have an excuse to slice them up, the sick motherfucker.

 

[champagne1982]

Is this Blank enough?

I can hear the rhythm through some of it but I'm not sure about all of the feet being in time...

On sticky floors the rip of soles yet haunts
the still twilight behind these curtained walls.
No windows light discarded cups and popcorn bags;
forgotten gloves 'tween cushioned rows, now showing
as tawdry rags of glitzy satin, faded by Hollywood rumps
in jeans, designed by skinny men in purple panties.

I see the faded splendor of a Oscar-studded walk
down wornout imitation of an Oriental path
toward a black paint replica of dark in the matinee
of noon; struck hollow from the tower clock.
Echoes of a ghost town or bell-ringer madness
and crackles of gum wrapper cellophane blowing
down the dusty streets of Dodge or a rain slick
damp Metropolis avenue. Old movies never die.

The ratchet of a finished reel clucks urgent taps
to an acne blotched wreckage of a pimply youth
projectionist caught sucking free cola from a curly
straw. Burning bulb flashes melted on the walls
flickered to another absent audience, on every aisle
an empty seat that waits for Gene's critical ghost
ushered in on thumbs up or down, no one cares.

 

[champagne1982]

I guess I need to get out there and crit a few of you before I ask for some attention. Some thoughts headed out soon...

 

[annaswirls]

Hey Carrie,
Sorry no one has helped you yet.

I have been swamped with Mannequin Envy-- have been away from Survivor work-- this is the first I saw your poem. I will come back and check this, although I have never written a blank verse, not sure how much help I will be.

Where the heck is pushkine

~AS

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Is this Blank enough?

I can hear the rhythm through some of it but I'm not sure about all of the feet being in time...

On sticky floors the rip of soles yet haunts
the still twilight behind these curtained walls.
No windows light discarded cups and popcorn bags;
forgotten gloves 'tween cushioned rows, now showing
as tawdry rags of glitzy satin, faded by Hollywood rumps
in jeans, designed by skinny men in purple panties.

I see the faded splendor of a Oscar-studded walk
down wornout imitation of an Oriental path
toward a black paint replica of dark in the matinee
of noon; struck hollow from the tower clock.
Echoes of a ghost town or bell-ringer madness
and crackles of gum wrapper cellophane blowing
down the dusty streets of Dodge or a rain slick
damp Metropolis avenue. Old movies never die.

The ratchet of a finished reel clucks urgent taps
to an acne blotched wreckage of a pimply youth
projectionist caught sucking free cola from a curly
straw. Burning bulb flashes melted on the walls
flickered to another absent audience, on every aisle
an empty seat that waits for Gene's critical ghost
ushered in on thumbs up or down, no one cares.

I'm having some trouble finding the rhythm of the lines in bold. Maybe it's the ings throwing them off balance. And Hollywood. I feel there's a weak syllable missing before the final rumps.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I guess I need to get out there and crit a few of you before I ask for some attention. Some thoughts headed out soon...

It's no good asking me I'm flying in on a wing and a prayer!

 

[champagne1982]

Thanks my darling poetesses. Y'know, some day I'll learn patience (or at least figure out a way to bump a thread without a pout).

Hey Carrie,
Sorry no one has helped you yet.

I have been swamped with Mannequin Envy-- have been away from Survivor work-- this is the first I saw your poem. I will come back and check this, although I have never written a blank verse, not sure how much help I will be.

Where the heck is pushkine

~AS

Awww, I'm just being persnickety. I should know that waiting brings its own reward and now that I've let this sit a day or 2, I can see where the problems lie, especially after Lauren's help.

I'm having some trouble finding the rhythm of the lines in bold. Maybe it's the ings throwing them off balance. And Hollywood. I feel there's a weak syllable missing before the final rumps.

Yes! Thank you. I think I have it all better now, the truth will out in the posting.

It's no good asking me I'm flying in on a wing and a prayer!

Well, here's some duct tape and you land first, I'll try to find a way through the wreakage.

 

[Angeline]

Is this Blank enough?

I can hear the rhythm through some of it but I'm not sure about all of the feet being in time...

On sticky floors the rip of soles yet haunts
the still twilight behind these curtained walls.
No windows light discarded cups and popcorn bags;
forgotten gloves 'tween cushioned rows, now showing
as tawdry rags of glitzy satin, faded by Hollywood rumps
in jeans, designed by skinny men in purple panties.

I see the faded splendor of a Oscar-studded walk
down wornout imitation of an Oriental path
toward a black paint replica of dark in the matinee
of noon; struck hollow from the tower clock.
Echoes of a ghost town or bell-ringer madness
and crackles of gum wrapper cellophane blowing
down the dusty streets of Dodge or a rain slick
damp Metropolis avenue. Old movies never die.

The ratchet of a finished reel clucks urgent taps
to an acne blotched wreckage of a pimply youth
projectionist caught sucking free cola from a curly
straw. Burning bulb flashes melted on the walls
flickered to another absent audience, on every aisle
an empty seat that waits for Gene's critical ghost
ushered in on thumbs up or down, no one cares.

I have no idea because I've never tried to write a blank verse poem, but I think this is a very good poem where you've married the content to a form well. And the skinny men in purple panties is a most interesting image.

ETA: I miss Gene, too. Roger is boring without him.

 

[pushkine]

Where the heck is pushkine

pushkine has been sulking in a personal Slough of Despond, and may well return to such. However, his remarkably fanatical (or idiosyncratic) sense of poetic rhythm will attempt to disembowel champagne's very, very blank verse later this evening.

If she, or anyone, cares.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Awwwwwwwww come on I only sulked for a day!

 

[pushkine]

Is this Blank enough?

I can hear the rhythm through some of it but I'm not sure about all of the feet being in time...

On sticky floors the rip of soles yet haunts
the still twilight behind these curtained walls.
No windows light discarded cups and popcorn bags;
forgotten gloves 'tween cushioned rows, now showing
as tawdry rags of glitzy satin, faded by Hollywood rumps
in jeans, designed by skinny men in purple panties.

I see the faded splendor of a Oscar-studded walk
down wornout imitation of an Oriental path
toward a black paint replica of dark in the matinee
of noon; struck hollow from the tower clock.
Echoes of a ghost town or bell-ringer madness
and crackles of gum wrapper cellophane blowing
down the dusty streets of Dodge or a rain slick
damp Metropolis avenue. Old movies never die.

The ratchet of a finished reel clucks urgent taps
to an acne blotched wreckage of a pimply youth
projectionist caught sucking free cola from a curly
straw. Burning bulb flashes melted on the walls
flickered to another absent audience, on every aisle
an empty seat that waits for Gene's critical ghost
ushered in on thumbs up or down, no one cares.

Here is how I hear it (note that this is my ear only and others may hear this differently):

On sticky floors the rip of soles yet haunts <--- (I hear five beats, in iambic pentameter.)
the still twilight behind these curtained walls. <--- (Four beats, not iambic.)
No window's light, discarded cups and popcorn bags; <--- (Six beats, iambic sextameter.)
forgotten gloves 'tween cushioned rows, now showing <--- (Five beats, iambic plus a feminine end.)
as tawdry rags of glitzy satin, faded by Hollywood rumps <--- (Seven beats and, frankly, kind of a mess for blank verse.)
in jeans, designed by skinny men in purple panties. <--- (Six beats, iambic plus a feminine end (and I am so not further commenting on that, sorry). I'm stopping here. The rest is approximately how I hear it.)

I see the faded splendor of an Oscar-studded walk
down worn-out imitation of an Oriental path
toward a black paint replica of dark in the matinee
of noon; struck hollow from the tower clock.
Echoes of a ghost town or bell-ringer madness
and crackles of gum wrapper cellophane blowing
down the dusty streets of Dodge or a rain slick
damp Metropolis avenue. Old movies never die.

The ratchet of a finished reel clucks urgent taps
to an acne-blotched wreckage of a pimply youth
projectionist caught sucking free cola from a curly
straw. Burning bulb flashes melted on the walls
flickered to another absent audience, on every aisle
an empty seat that waits for Gene's critical ghost
ushered in on thumbs up or down, no one cares.​

Depending on how strict you are trying to be, I would suggest counting your syllables. If you're shooting for iambic pentameter and a line has twelve syllables, you're a foot over, assuming you've been iambic. Try ten syllables, plus or minus one.

Also, lose (for the most part) those feminine endings (where the line ends on an unstressed syllable). Those kind of fuck up blank verse. Yeah, Shakespeare does that, but very sparingly. He knew what he was doing, and we don't.

In summary, do whatever the hell you think is right. I don't know anything about poetry. My comment is purely comment on the question you posed about whether this was blank verse. Simply opinion. Probably wrong.

 

[champagne1982]

Here is how I hear it (note that this is my ear only and others may hear this differently):

On sticky floors the rip of soles yet haunts <--- (I hear five beats, in iambic pentameter.)
the still twilight behind these curtained walls. <--- (Four beats, not iambic.)
No window's light, discarded cups and popcorn bags; <--- (Six beats, iambic sextameter.)
forgotten gloves 'tween cushioned rows, now showing <--- (Five beats, iambic plus a feminine end.)
as tawdry rags of glitzy satin, faded by Hollywood rumps <--- (Seven beats and, frankly, kind of a mess for blank verse.)
in jeans, designed by skinny men in purple panties. <--- (Six beats, iambic plus a feminine end (and I am so not further commenting on that, sorry). I'm stopping here. The rest is approximately how I hear it.)

I see the faded splendor of an Oscar-studded walk
down worn-out imitation of an Oriental path
toward a black paint replica of dark in the matinee
of noon; struck hollow from the tower clock.
Echoes of a ghost town or bell-ringer madness
and crackles of gum wrapper cellophane blowing
down the dusty streets of Dodge or a rain slick
damp Metropolis avenue. Old movies never die.

The ratchet of a finished reel clucks urgent taps
to an acne-blotched wreckage of a pimply youth
projectionist caught sucking free cola from a curly
straw. Burning bulb flashes melted on the walls
flickered to another absent audience, on every aisle
an empty seat that waits for Gene's critical ghost
ushered in on thumbs up or down, no one cares.​

Depending on how strict you are trying to be, I would suggest counting your syllables. If you're shooting for iambic pentameter and a line has twelve syllables, you're a foot over, assuming you've been iambic. Try ten syllables, plus or minus one.

Also, lose (for the most part) those feminine endings (where the line ends on an unstressed syllable). Those kind of fuck up blank verse. Yeah, Shakespeare does that, but very sparingly. He knew what he was doing, and we don't.

In summary, do whatever the hell you think is right. I don't know anything about poetry. My comment is purely comment on the question you posed about whether this was blank verse. Simply opinion. Probably wrong.

So, does blank verse require iambic pentametre? I was hoping to get by on just some kind of iambic thing with the occassional girliness. I've got most of the verse smoothed into iambic foot beats so I'm hoping it will be close enough to class as blank in this tiny school here.

Pushkine, thanks so much for your toe-tappiness. I did some editing earlier and submitted my poem. If the critical reader here winds up disagreeing that I can call it the formula, then I'll hit the counter. As it sounds now, it's made it to mostly iambic and (I think) I solved the uncomfortable feminine endings... Although Shakara may disagree that panties are uncomfortable.

 

[pushkine]

So, does blank verse require iambic pentametre?

No, it does not. But it does require consistency of metre:

Blank Verse (20 lines or more)
Any unrhymed accentual-syllabic verse. By far, the most common blank verse in English language is in iambic pentameter, but can be done in iambic tetrameter, trochaic dimeter, dactylic hexameter, spondaic septameter, etc. As long as you maintain consistency throughout the poem.

(My emphasis.)

Don't care, myself. But if you want to do it right—right as regards the form, that is—my feeling is that that sample don't fly.

But just my opinion. Depends on how anal you want to be about the form and how you hear the language. Your hearing may differ from mine. Probably does.

Don't really care. You asked for comment, I gave mine.

All I can, or want to, do.

 

[annaswirls]

pushkine has been sulking in a personal Slough of Despond, and may well return to such. However, his remarkably fanatical (or idiosyncratic) sense of poetic rhythm will attempt to disembowel champagne's very, very blank verse later this evening.

If she, or anyone, cares.

We all care you goofball, I mean, um, Sir.

Don't you go too far. I mean, um, Please.